Yet another old power supply problem thread (10yr old corsair TX650W)

atarione

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So after getting my i7-12700K up and running I went to upgrade my wife's computer which had been crashing (probably because of the power supply?) to my old Ryzen 5 3600 / B550 Aorus Elite /16GB DDR4 / RX580 and with a new Samsung 980 1TB NVMe SSD...

I tried just using this quite old Corsair TX650 Power supply that has been in this computer for I guess 10+ yrs? .. things were weird... The computer booted but if you shut it down it wouldn't restart a little red led with briefly flash on the RX580 and then it would just turn off... if I unplugged it (power supply) and plugged it back in it would boot once but would not restart if shutdown again (without removing power cord).

Also strangely? The Fan on the Cryorig H5 cooler just wouldn't ramp up it would just stay at 650ish RPM and wouldn't ramp up with load.. making the cpu reach 80C trying Cinebench R23..

Sooo I have a spare corsair power supply that is about 5yrs old (and hasn't been used for 3 of them) CX600... I swapped it in, CPU fan now obeys the laws of PWM and computer will reboot after a shutdown.... soooo I guess the TX650 is toast...

I've run a number of benchmarks / stability test and happily the old Power supply doesn't seem to have damaged anything else (thank god).... but I'm going to be more careful about reusing old power supply units in future I guess...

RIP TX650W ... so weird that it made the PWM on the CPU fan not work??? I'm quite pleased that it didn't take other stuff with it however... yikes.

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god I love the Retro vibes of these Gigabyte Triton 180 Cases .. I have 2 of them I bought when Compusa went out of business (I think for about $40ea as I recall?) my wife's pc is in one of them... The dead TX650 was on clearance at Bestbuy for like $40 or something as I recall when I bought it..

1663890329744.png
 
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GiGaBiTe

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I'd say take the lid off of the failed 650W power supply and look for failed caps. All it probably needs is a cap kit to get it working again.
 

Dreamerbydesign

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Often overlooked when it shouldn’t be. Power supplies are really the heart of the system and the cause of many issues.

I always say but a quality psu, and replace it with another every 5 years or so. There are many variables that effect the life span but I think it’s good practice.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Often overlooked when it shouldn’t be. Power supplies are really the heart of the system and the cause of many issues.

I always say but a quality psu, and replace it with another every 5 years or so. There are many variables that effect the life span but I think it’s good practice.

The only two major wear items in a PSU are the capacitors and the fan. Other components failing is usually caused by failing/failed capacitors stressing them to the point of destruction. If you recap a power supply every 7-10 years, you can have a supply that lasts decades.
 

GotNoRice

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So after getting my i7-12700K up and running I went to upgrade my wife's computer which had been crashing (probably because of the power supply?) to my old Ryzen 5 3600 / B550 Aorus Elite /16GB DDR4 / RX580 and with a new Samsung 980 1TB NVMe SSD...

I tried just using this quite old Corsair TX650 Power supply that has been in this computer for I guess 10+ yrs? .. things were weird... The computer booted but if you shut it down it wouldn't restart a little red led with briefly flash on the RX580 and then it would just turn off... if I unplugged it (power supply) and plugged it back in it would boot once but would not restart if shutdown again (without removing power cord).

I've had this and similar issues occur when using an older PSU with newer hardware. I believe the issue is related to changes that were made to the ATX spec, starting with ATX12V v2.51 released in October 2017. This is when "Alternative Sleep Mode" (ASM) was implemented. The goal is to enable your computer to resume from a deep sleep state more quickly (pretty much instantly). But if your computer tries to use this feature, and you are using a power supply based on an older version of the ATX spec, the computer will behave very similar to what you described. Unplugging the computer and plugging it back in will cause it to boot normally because you are manually resetting the deep sleep state that the computer had been put into. The reason this happens when you "shut down" the computer is because modern versions of windows use what is called "Fast Startup" which will cause your computer to enter a deep sleep state (similar to hibernate) when you "shut down" your computer, instead of a traditional shut down.

So, long story short, you could probably just disable "Fast Startup", after which your computer would revert to a traditional normal shut down every time you shut it down.

Also strangely? The Fan on the Cryorig H5 cooler just wouldn't ramp up it would just stay at 650ish RPM and wouldn't ramp up with load.. making the cpu reach 80C trying Cinebench R23..

This seems harder to explain. You have these PWM fans plugged into the motherboard?
 

atarione

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The only two major wear items in a PSU are the capacitors and the fan. Other components failing is usually caused by failing/failed capacitors stressing them to the point of destruction. If you recap a power supply every 7-10 years, you can have a supply that lasts decades.

interesting... I have always been reluctant to mess about with PSUs due to the "they could actually kill you" aspects of the inards.

I've had this and similar issues occur when using an older PSU with newer hardware. I believe the issue is related to changes that were made to the ATX spec, starting with ATX12V v2.51 released in October 2017. This is when "Alternative Sleep Mode" (ASM) was implemented. The goal is to enable your computer to resume from a deep sleep state more quickly (pretty much instantly). But if your computer tries to use this feature, and you are using a power supply based on an older version of the ATX spec, the computer will behave very similar to what you described. Unplugging the computer and plugging it back in will cause it to boot normally because you are manually resetting the deep sleep state that the computer had been put into. The reason this happens when you "shut down" the computer is because modern versions of windows use what is called "Fast Startup" which will cause your computer to enter a deep sleep state (similar to hibernate) when you "shut down" your computer, instead of a traditional shut down.

So, long story short, you could probably just disable "Fast Startup", after which your computer would revert to a traditional normal shut down every time you shut it down.



This seems harder to explain. You have these PWM fans plugged into the motherboard?
Thanks for the information... I didn't know about this ASM stuff.. I suppose that might have something to do with it.. But yeah the CPU fan was plugged into the CPU header on the motherboard works fine now, supposed to run 700-1300RPMS which it does with the CX600 but with the TX650 the cpu fan just sat at 650ish rpms and wouldn't budge off it ??? soooo not sure but that is what it was doing with the 1st power supply.
 

vegeta535

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I'd say take the lid off of the failed 650W power supply and look for failed caps. All it probably needs is a cap kit to get it working again.
Don't do this. It can be dangerous and not worth repairing a 10 year old PSU. A modern 650 PSU is not that expansive.
 
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Dreamerbydesign

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That is way overkill and just wasting money.
Everyone has a different opinion on that. I can say I usually have “higher end” hardware and upgrade frequently, and that I’ve never had a single power supply related issue (knock on wood). And I always budget in a quality PSU when pricing and planning my next system. I don’t always go overboard with wattage, but I do replace the PSU every five or so years. Just what works for me, and again I’ve never had a single issue. After noticing the trend after reading pc related forums for many many years, it seems peoppe recycling decade old power supplies actually tends to be a factor in issues people have.
 

pug71

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Do do this. It can be dangerous and not worth repairing a 10 year old PSU. A modern 650 PSU is not that expansive.

agreed and just plain stupid.. never in my close to 25 yrs of upgrading and building would I suggest anyone do that.. invest in a quality brand name PSU and have less worries and a sounder system.
 

pug71

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I always say but a quality psu, and replace it with another every 5 years or so.

expensive practice but hey if you want to do that every 5 .. go for it. will admit depending on my system build I might upgrade the psu then , if needed.. But I have been known to use one for 8-10yrs. Seasonics.
 

pug71

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Atarione,
I'm still scratching my head wondering why you wanted to take the risk though on those new parts with an older psu. Just a few 20's alone could've had you in a decent one. Microcenter had a cx650m for 79.99.
 

atarione

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Atarione,
I'm still scratching my head wondering why you wanted to take the risk though on those new parts with an older psu. Just a few 20's alone could've had you in a decent one. Microcenter had a cx650m for 79.99.

I just didn't really think about it... The corsair was a high quality unit at the time. One of the other things I like is vintage stereo equipment (much older than most any PC at this point.) These Items from the 70s /80s often have their original power supplies that are 40+ years old... case in point this rather nice Pioneer SX-3600 receiver build in 1980 using equipment this old daily may have left me a bit unguarded about using a decade old power supply? Moving forward I will proactively replace old power supplies in new pc builds certainly, I am currently shopping for a couple new power supplies for my wife's computer and my own.

sx3600_3.jpg
 

GotNoRice

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Obviously nothing lasts forever, but it seems silly to think about power supplies as having a built-in expiration date especially if you're only talking about a handful of years. I also use a lot of vintage audio hardware, including my 4 Yamaha P2200/P2201 amps from 1976. 46 years old and all four are original. Having four would mean 4 times the chance that one would fail yet they still keep going, and I don't baby them either.

I used a Thermaltake 1000w PSU from 2007 in my main computer until earlier this year. I bought it back when I was running an overclocked Core2Quad Q9650 and 2x 4870x2 in Quad Crossfire. It worked great with my 5900X and RTX 2080, except for having to disable fast startup due to not supporting ASM (otherwise I had to unplug and re-plug computer every time I shut it down, similar to what OP described). I only upgraded recently to a Superflower 850w because I was able to line-up several coupons/discounts and get it for ~$60, but 15 years was a good run. I'll probably still find another use for it somewhere.

My backup computer also uses a power supply from 2007, an Antec TruePower Quattro 1000w. My backup computer has pretty crazy power requirements. The overclocked i7-5820k in there uses more power than my Ryzen 5900X, and the three GTX 680 cards combined use more power than a RTX 4090, so suffice it to say that a lot is being asked of that 15 year old PSU. Still working great.
 

pug71

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I just didn't really think about it... The corsair was a high quality unit at the time. One of the other things I like is vintage stereo equipment (much older than most any PC at this point.) These Items from the 70s /80s often have their original power supplies that are 40+ years old... case in point this rather nice Pioneer SX-3600 receiver build in 1980 using equipment this old daily may have left me a bit unguarded about using a decade old power supply? Moving forward I will proactively replace old power supplies in new pc builds certainly, I am currently shopping for a couple new power supplies for my wife's computer and my own.

View attachment 513318
haha takes me back to when I was young and my Dad used to build his piece by piece. I would go over and touch his pioneer record player with the needle and weight that would gently lay down upon putting on a new album.. Man he hated when I did it.
 

GiGaBiTe

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interesting... I have always been reluctant to mess about with PSUs due to the "they could actually kill you" aspects of the inards.

While you can die from a PSU mishap, you can also die from a car mishap, you just have to avoid those mishaps.

Just make sure the primary line caps are discharged. This is pretty easy on modern supplies, they have bleed resistors to drain them, you just have to let them do their work. While bleed resistors can go bad, parasitic circuit resistance will still pull the cap down eventually, it'll just take longer.

And the only spicy part of the supply is the primary side mosfets and heatsink, which will generally (but not always) be rectified mains RMS, or around 375v.

Do do this. It can be dangerous and not worth repairing a 10 year old PSU. A modern 650 PSU is not that expansive.

Yes, it is worth repairing an old quality PSU. It's a fraction of the cost of a new PSU and saves it from the landfill.

While it can be risky, so can thousands of other things. Living in a safety bubble your entire life is stupid.
 

Axman

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That is way overkill and just wasting money.

Yeah, although we're at a point where older PSUs just can't be used with modern hardware.

But a PSU can easily last a decade assuming its standards are still adequate.

Maybe toss a PSU if your house gets struck by lightning. Don't trust any electronics after a lightning strike. <-- from a position of experience.
 
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GotNoRice

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Yeah, although we're at a point where older PSUs just can't be used with modern hardware.

How so? Issues such as a Power Supply not supporting ASM are trivial to work around once you understand what is going on. We have the new 16-pin GPU power connector, but I've seen no evidence that adapters won't continue to be a workable solution for quite some time. Even an EPS12V PSU from ~2003 (the first spec that used 24+8 pin power connectors) would work on a modern rig in most cases.
 

Axman

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GPUs spike in power draws faster than PSUs can generate them, and the whole machine goes black. This is for flagship GPUs for the most part, but it's not going to get better with the newest video cards hitting the market.

People here have tried high quality, new old stock PSUs from a few years back with 6900s and 3090s and they just don't work, even though they were rated way above spec.
 

kirbyrj

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GPUs spike in power draws faster than PSUs can generate them, and the whole machine goes black. This is for flagship GPUs for the most part, but it's not going to get better with the newest video cards hitting the market.

People here have tried high quality, new old stock PSUs from a few years back with 6900s and 3090s and they just don't work, even though they were rated way above spec.

I only had that issue with a 3090, and lets face it. Not everybody has a 3090. I had no problems with a 6900xt or below a 3090 on the Nvidia side.

Personally, I think it's poor design by Nvidia rather than PSU manufacturers. WTF is Nvidia doing allowing momentary spikes that high?

I've run plenty of 3070s on 5 year old PSUs with no issues.
 

Nenu

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My 11yr old Corsair AX750 (based on Seasonic AX750) is powering my 450W 3090 admirably.
fyi
 

pug71

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My 11yr old Corsair AX750 (based on Seasonic AX750) is powering my 450W 3090 admirably.
fyi
Man you are a trooper lol! Forget that though! I love Seasonic a ton but no way in heck am I trust a decade old PSU to a gpu so new.. I bought a brand new 3080 this year and also paired it with a brand new Seasonic PSU.. I like to start fresh all around. my old 11 year old x760 will keep powering my older gpu.
 
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I've had this and similar issues occur when using an older PSU with newer hardware. I believe the issue is related to changes that were made to the ATX spec, starting with ATX12V v2.51 released in October 2017. This is when "Alternative Sleep Mode" (ASM) was implemented.

Dang, I'm glad I read this thread. As you can see from the old thread that was just necro'd by me, I pulled a moderately-used Corsair TX850W out of an ancient derelict computer and was considering hooking it up to to a modern MSI X570-A Pro motherboard. Sounds like I should probably just buy a new modular PSU if I want to swap out the Corsair VS 600 crappy PSU that's currently in my rig. (Bought it from a friend, not sure why he put such a crappy PSU in it.)
 

GotNoRice

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Dang, I'm glad I read this thread. As you can see from the old thread that was just necro'd by me, I pulled a moderately-used Corsair TX850W out of an ancient derelict computer and was considering hooking it up to to a modern MSI X570-A Pro motherboard. Sounds like I should probably just buy a new modular PSU if I want to swap out the Corsair VS 600 crappy PSU that's currently in my rig. (Bought it from a friend, not sure why he put such a crappy PSU in it.)

I would not let the ASM issue be the deciding factor. It's trivial to change the way your computer uses sleep via the BIOS, or by changing windows settings. As I mentioned earlier I had a 15 year old PSU powering my x570 system until earlier this year and it worked fine.
 
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I would not let the ASM issue be the deciding factor. It's trivial to change the way your computer uses sleep via the BIOS, or by changing windows settings. As I mentioned earlier I had a 15 year old PSU powering my x570 system until earlier this year and it worked fine.

So, it's as easy as just disabling "Fast Startup" through the Power Options setting? If that's all I need to do then I guess I'm good to go since my rig only has M.2 NVME SSDs.
 

GotNoRice

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So, it's as easy as just disabling "Fast Startup" through the Power Options setting? If that's all I need to do then I guess I'm good to go since my rig only has M.2 NVME SSDs.

Disabling Fast Startup will cause your computer to do a traditional shut down when you shut down the system, instead of going into a deep sleep when you shut down (this is how Fast Startup works). So that would prevent ASM from being an issue when you shut down your system. If you also use Sleep or Hibernate, and encounter issues while doing so, you might need to also adjust some options in your bios (related to which sleep features are used). Worst case, it might take a little bit of trial and error to see what works and what does not.
 
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