Year of the Samsung Desktop

Discussion in 'Linux/BSD/Free Systems' started by ChadD, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Really how has no one posted anything about this around here yet ? :)

    https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/19/samsung-introduces-linux-on-galaxy/
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/want-a-linux-desktop-on-your-android-phone-samsungs-working-on-it/
    http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/19/linux-galaxy-will-bring-desktop-os-samsung-phones-dex/

    S9 rumors say 6gb + 128gb storage + a pretty sweet exynos, although I'm sure in NA we'll get saddled with a qualcom chip. If that is true and I can switch over to a full Fedora/Ubuntu distro I am 100% sold.

    Perhaps the year of Linux... has nothing to do with "desktops" I think we need to start talking about the year of GNU !!! Linux on mobile. Honestly it seems pretty darn logical now... Android is nothing but a stripped down Linux distro, mobile hardware is getting to the point now that there really isn't much need to strip it down. If samsung pulls off a half decent GNU/Linux experience with Dex it could be a game changer. Android + GNU should work perfectly heck its even possible DexDistros will be able to just use the same kernel allowing users to switch back and forth. Samsung may be on to something.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  2. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Isn't this pretty much what Canonical were trying to do with Unity? It didn't work so well for them....
     
  3. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Canonical never had a chance at all in anyway to ever make their play work though... and anyone that didn't know that (including them) had no idea how the mobile world worked.

    Mobile has always been about locked in locked down software... the only way in was to produce hardware on a scale beyond the larger carriers. Apple was able to break carriers because they where apple... google was able to get in as fast as they did as they offered carriers an in between, Smartphone like but flexable enough for manufacturers to tailor things as the carriers wished.

    Samsung has the market muscle to blaze their own path... and most important an actual install base (which ubuntu did not have in anyway).

    If Samsung builds this out in a way that is as slick as it sounds.... and decides to ship S9 with a basic dock, this should also work well with chromecast as described. Samsung may well be putting linux desktops in the hands of millions of people without Linux being the primary selling point.

    Have a samsung phone... download the Linux on Android app, and install Ubuntu For Samsung. Cast it to your 1080p tv, use your bluetooth keyboard+mouse.
     
  4. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Only sorta like what Canonical was trying to do. They wanted Ubuntu on the phone with a phone interface (thus the point of Unity). Then when you plug it into a dock you get full fledged desktop interface. Kinda like the bastard version thing Windows 10 2-in-1s do now between tablet mode and desktop mode.

    This DeX thing is Android for the phone and then it boots a totally separate Linux distro when docked. A nice workaround but not quite what Canonical envisioned.

    I don't like Samsung phones due to TouchWiz but man...if this option works nicely I may just have to get one. I've been wanting a device that could do what Canonical wanted. This is a great close second.
     
  5. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    I prefer the Samsung method myself. I can't imagine how bad battery life would be running a full on GNU linux distro all the time would be... android has gotten to the point of being a pretty capable phone OS. If like me you use your phone to answer phone calls and msg a little bit.

    Samsungs solution sounds like it should allow any distro (not just Ubuntu). I'm not 100% sure on how exactly this will work with the kernel... it sounds like they are planning on running the same kernel. Which sounds like it could rule out some distros completely. I will be interested to see where this goes exactly. I doubt it will be as simple as just downloading a ARM iso of your favorite distro... but if it works I could see the Ubuntus/Fedoras... perhaps even smaller distros like Solus making a (android app launch) spin. Which is pretty exciting for me. If its generic enough and leads to an open standard that isn't locked down with Samsung code it believe it could lead to some very interesting products from smaller companies. It seems every few months some small start up is talking about putting Linux on a phone.... if they have an option to put a vanilla Android with Distro launcher app together that imo makes their product 100% more viable. (and highly attractive to me)
     
  6. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    Motorola started it with the original Atrix smartphone and the lapdock, Ubuntu tried it with Ubuntu Touch, Asus tried it with the Padphone, Microsoft tried it with Continuum, and now Samsung with this Dex thing will try it and fail miserably. Nobody has done it right yet, and I doubt anybody ever will.

    And with Apple now apparently about to or currently in process of designing an iPhone that utilizes a stylu---errrr, Apple Pen who knows what they might actually try and do later on. I would say they'll never do such a device since that would just cause them to (potentially) lose sales of MacBook hardware and even maybe iPads considering what such a device could do but, it's Apple, they do what they want and never do anything that consumers actually would like to see them do.
     
  7. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    You also need to consider that ARM just doesn't have the sustained power of x64, I honestly believe the whole experience would be mostly frustrating.
     
  8. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Why though? ARM seems to work beautifully for ChromeOS which is nothing but the kernel and a special DE. With hardware acceleration a DE would run just fine on a modern smartphone. Now you may not get something like KDE running very well just yet but you could easily get XFCE, LXDE, Cinnamon, Budgie, or Gnome 3 running without much issue. Let's not even talk about Linux distros built from Raspberry Pi.

    I mean spinning up an Arch Arm build with XFCE and Compton for tearing would be very trivial on Galaxy S8+. We're not asking it to game. We're asking it to be a usable desktop for general usage with is what most of the population wants.
     
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  9. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    The demos recently of Windows 10 for ARM running on that hardware and it being capable of running un-altered x86/x64 code directly with very little loss of actual performance in most respects (of course people will point to games but that's just not relevant in such a situation) is a pretty telling thing so, I can't exactly imagine it'll be a difficult thing to do.
     
  10. KarsusTG

    KarsusTG 2[H]4U

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    TBH these technologies do have some merit. I would really love for my phone, laptop, and desktop, all running Linux to be able to seamlessly and SAFELY share files, contacts, etc. Honestly Microsoft CAN do this sort of well, but I feel it's so invasive that it's basically a virus.

    It would be awesome to get this to work and be able to remotely run desktop apps on your phone, and vice versa not to mention the ease of file sharing and other goodness.
     
  11. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    But can it play Crysis?
     
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  12. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Performance always appears great in tech demos, that's the idea of tech demos.

    Problem is cooling and throttling, your mobile device is not designed to run sustained loads and throttles very easily. I can't see a scenario at this point in time where this can work, I really can't.
     
  13. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    ARM isn't nearly as powerless as most think. Its actually a very powerful pound for pound instruction set. Of course a phone isn't going to be powering top end games or anything silly. But to run a basic DE... Chrome / Firefox, Word Processors, code (text) editors and the like. Ya ARM can more then handle all of that that. Compared to the low power x86 chips out there the current ARM generation of chips is on par.

    Really though what makes me think this could work isn't S8 or current gen hardware really. Its what is coming with S9 and SX. S9 is rumored to be packing 6GB of ram, package that with yet another ARM stepping and I think we are more then getting to the point where phone hardware will be mostly equal to lower mid range laptops. Intel hasn't pushed the needle in years and its starting to show. They have allowed the ARM manufacturers like Samsung / Apple / Qualcomm to more then catch their lower / lower-mid range chips in performance. Still Samsung have already done their DEX thing which as I saw it in many ways was just a Samsung low spec DE. I doubt LXQT or XFCE would require anymore horsepower really... and people that have used S8+dex have said it is surprisingly usable and in many ways much snappier then low end windows 10 laptops. (which if we are all being honest is what the majority of the masses know)

    The issue MS had with ARM based windows machines was software. That isn't something that should really effect Linux phone installs in the same way. We have Ubuntu / Fedora / Debian / Arch for ARM... almost all the goodness of their software repositories are ready compiled for ARM64 and ARMHF. The issues MS ran into with software confusion isn't a concern in the same way with Linux package managers removing customer confusion of not being able to download X or Y software.

    We'll have to see exactly how Samsung rolls this out... but if this works in the way I'm thinking, the dock won't even really be needed. If I am understanding what they are talking about anyone with chromecast and bluetooth input devices should be able to fire up a full distro in the same way people chroot to a full distro on their chrome books. For people with phones + chromebooks (or low end windows 10 laptops) chromecast + a high end samsung phone may be all they ever need.
     
  14. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm content with this:

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Power isn't the issue, heat dissipation is the issue. I can crash my Nexus 9 with it's Nvidia Maxwell GPU playing the Talos Principle as I can't keep it cool. The latest iPhone, with the fastest ARM processor available, has been proven to have great performance, but throttle every time it's pushed hard.

    Small, sleek and compact is not a good combination when it comes to thermal dynamics.

    More ram = more multitasking, more multitasking = more heat, more heat = throttling and frustration.
     
  16. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Except we're not talking about running games on DeX. We're talking getting a usable Linux interface for general computing. I could easily use an Arch Arm based build with XFCE for my daily work. I don't need to pin my CPUs or my GPU while I'm working.
     
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  17. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    As Vermillion is saying I don't think the masses are planning to play the Talos principle on their phones no mater what. All the reports of throttling on the iphone I have read seem to be people trying pretty hard to make it happen. Regular use isn't an issue.

    I'm not saying phone hardware is going to completely replace every desktop computer in the world. But lets all be honest as well.... even with 5+ year old intel chips most of us are barely using over 10% of our CPU horsepower outside of gaming or mining. For pretty much everything outside of gaming we simply don't need a ton of horsepower.

    I will say I don't know how large a market there really is for such a device... as I'm not convinced there is much of a market for Desktop type machines at all anymore. In my experience the masses have their Zombie Boxes (smartphones) and simply don't care about desktops anymore. Still when I think about the younger people I know (my 20 something boys and their friends) the ones that own desktops use them for nothing more then a bit of word processing... having helped them and their friends when they run into issues (because damn I swear that generation knows about as much about PC operating systems as the generation before me) all I have found on their systems has been a few documents, the odd spreed sheet... and evidence of lots of unwise porn browsing. (seriously they seem to have issues even finding half decent porn sites)

    I'll stop the old man ranting now... I guess all I'm saying is. To me it looks like the future is mobile hardware. I know thermal dynamics are an issue if your looking for a gaming box or need crunching power. Having said that I have seen a number of the low end windows 10 Laptops the masses seem to be buying the last few years... and based on that a phone that can one click open a desktop and let them edit their documents with full featured software sounds like a major step up.
     
  18. michalrz

    michalrz 2[H]4U

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    Comrades, I plead forgiveness for straying off the established path of questions and responses.
    Kind sir, mind telling, how would one go about adding 3G/LTE into one of the contraptions you presented?
     
  19. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Cellular breakout board like the Adafruit FONA and then tether it?
     
  20. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    As far as ARM systems, I still think it'd be fun to play with one of those crazy servers.

    Ex. System76 Starling Pro ARM - 96× 2 GHz ARM Cores, up to 1TB ram. :D
     
  21. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    That does look like fun! But ~$6000.00! Gawd damn, that's one expensive NAS.
     
  22. michalrz

    michalrz 2[H]4U

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    I thank thee, for this would enable me to create something aking to a custom communication device the likes of which would rival the established status quo!
     
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  23. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    You'll have bragging rights. 65" 4k phone display. Now beat that...
     
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  24. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well, at 2" the average 1920 x 1080 display built into the device would probably have a pixel density better than a 65" 4k display.... :D
     
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  25. michalrz

    michalrz 2[H]4U

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    You two just imagine a PCB taped to the back of a big ass laser printer.
    That's how the market is evolving, sorry guys!
     
  26. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    So you mean Internet On Things? :D
     
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  27. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Because the status is NOT quo. - this one does phone calls. Raspberry Pi based cellphone

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. michalrz

    michalrz 2[H]4U

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    I want that so bad!

    SSHing into my phone while the ladies are watching... I'd get all the pussy.
     
  29. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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  30. michalrz

    michalrz 2[H]4U

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    Hahahaha
     
  31. DTabakov

    DTabakov n00bie

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  32. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    While very nice implementation the problem there is it's still Android (I won't even get into the part about how I would never trust a Chinese manufacturer version of Android with critical information).

    Android is NOT a desktop OS. It's a phone/tablet OS. DeX enables me to use a full fledged Linux distro.
     
  33. DTabakov

    DTabakov n00bie

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    You would never trust a Chinese manufacturer with critical information? What the actual...? :D You know that you can set up a custom rom and everything right? Furthermore do not forget that almost everything is made in China. So don't start with the privacy. More so that Samsung also collects a lot of data, and you want to tell me it's safer there? Come on.

    Do we need to start this discussion, at the moment when you are using an Intel processor with their background code execution shit? Plus I can see how you can set up a "VM" on Android to push a Linux via just a cable.
     
  34. Vermillion

    Vermillion 2[H]4U

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    Reading comprehension fail.

    I said "Chinese manufacturer version of Android".

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16072786/amazon-blu-suspended-android-spyware-user-data-theft/
    https://www.engadget.com/2015/11/02/bunk-baidu-sdk-puts-backdoor-on-millions-of-android-devices/
    https://www.cyberscoop.com/android-malware-china-huawei-zte-kryptowire-blu-products/
    https://www.slashgear.com/adups-chinese-spyware-still-on-android-phones-including-blu-27493055/

    Sorry. I have ZERO faith in any version of Android modified by a Chinese company. Even OnePlus had fun siphoning off all your data until they got caught.

    As for a custom ROM. As soon as you throw say Lineage OS on that Mate 10 you lose that neat desktop experience.

    So no I'll still pass on Mate 10 for Galaxy S and DeX. And if you think Samsung is siphoning data like China did you're kidding yourself. The only way they're getting more data is if you use their shitty ecosystem.
     
  35. DTabakov

    DTabakov n00bie

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    I'll fall on the ground from laughing. Honestly ! You are talking stupid, with articles dating back from 2015 and mainly for Blu phones. I am talking Huawei which is a legitimate company, which ships all over Europe (I am from EU). Also, could you please stop that bullshit as your government is snooping all over the place. Including articles I've read that you can get all user info (plus what plan they are using). Forgot about Snowden eh? You are laughable my dear friend.

    Plus if you think that you can not manage your phone, to see what's going on it, this is your problem not mine. I am confident in my abilities to see what's going on on my phone (as I work for an american software company in the security dept. oh surprise surprise our office is based in EU). So yeah, keep throwing articles at me. I'll keep my head up and be confident in myself.

    Everything can be traced, everything can be hacked and everything is collecting data. So yeah, basically your statement for me is absolute bull.
     
  36. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Android actually works quite well as a desktop OS. However I think they're talking about running Linux as an app?
     
  37. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    The idea seems to be very much like the Crouton method of running Ubuntu and other distros on ChromeOS. Basically a Universal chroot env for Android. With your Linux distro running on the same kernel android is. Crouton does the same for chromeos machines running ubuntu on the chromeos kernel.

    It makes very good sense if your Samsung. Why reinvent the wheel developing a samsung desktop DE running in Android... when you could just run Gnome/KDE/XFCE. At that point you don't have to worry about android apps not translating to desktop use, you just install Linux desktop software.

    I hope they make it as open as it first sounds... but I do sort of expect Samsung will have an official buntu or some other distro spin loaded with a bunch of Samsung ecosystem software. Which I'm quite fine with if its still open enough for us to run our own choice of distro. If the masses have a ready build one click Samsung GNU/Linux-Android that just works it could mean some very interesting things market wise in a few years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  38. Frobozz

    Frobozz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Any feelings about the Librem 5? :)
     
  39. DTabakov

    DTabakov n00bie

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    We shall see about that. However, to be honest they are going to put an Android distro in a phone...which means that they will have to cover all the "holes" in the distro. And it's highly doubtful they will be able to cover everything from a to z. It's more like a promise for something very good that does not exist at this moment of time, which will probably never materialize 1 to 1 like they're putting it.

    At the end of the day if you are dumb enough to get bitten by a dog on a leash, even the most secure phone will be traced and snooped upon. Most of the consumers nowadays are dumb as my chewing gum. But we shall see, I don't believe in start ups.
     
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  40. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've always wondered why they would want to spy and trace me ordering pizza or telling my kids to come home. I must be special.
     
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