XP/Vista 64/7 mutliboot questions

[trooper11]

Hi all, Im looking for some advice on my multiboot project.

I have a single drive that I have partitioned off into drives for three OS installs and one storage drive.

The three partitions will hold XP, Vista 64, and 7. I have already installed XP and then install Vista 64. im waiting on 7 until I have things set the way I want them.

My goal is to have these set to where none of the OSes can see the other. Right now though, Vista can see the XP drive and vice versa. So first, I want to fix that. Secondly, Im using the Vista boot manager currently, but wanted to here any suggestions of a better third party manager to use.

Once I have the systems running, Ill be using Acronis True Image to make a backup image, but Ive heard that users run into issues restoring a multiboot system when the Vista boot manager is used to manage them, so Im looking for an alternative. Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks.

 

[InvisiBill]

My goal is to have these set to where none of the OSes can see the other. Right now though, Vista can see the XP drive and vice versa. So first, I want to fix that.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with dual-booting, but I don't think that's possible (at least not without some third party tool). Each partition has to be available in order to boot to that OS, and since it's available and the OS can interpret the filesystem, it shows up.

The easy fix may be to go into Drive Management in each OS and hide the other drive. I'm not sure if that's possible, and it wouldn't be completely preventing access to the partition, just hiding it.

The other solution (which may be only theoretical at the moment) would be to have a third party boot manager alter the partition table depending on which OS you select. It would mark that partition active and the other partition(s) as hidden. Windows would then act as if the selected partition was the only one on the drive.

I don't know if anything like that exists or even if it would actually work. It's just an idea that came to me as I sit here waiting for PartitionMagic to move my data around for migrating to my new drive...

 

[leSLIe]

My goal is to have these set to where none of the OSes can see the other.

what do you mean by that? if it's the same hard disk, and the its a NTFS or FAT32 partitions, it´ll show up in the windows explorer.

Unlike having a Ext3 linux partition under windows, you´d had to install a third party application in order to see linux´s partitions in windows

 

[MrF]

In each OS, you can use the disk manager to "Remove" the drive letter for the other OS drives.
Edit: This is not a correct statement. You cannot remove the drive letter of the system partition. Sorry about that!

Then, windows explorer will not show, or have access to, those drives.

Of course, a user can always go back to the disk management utility and add a drive letter to one of those drives and bring them back.

In this scenario, the system partition will be the XP partition. So, if you re-install XP, you will lose your boot menu.
This dependency of the boot menu to one of the OS installations is the main disadvantage of this scheme.



Alternatively, if you have multiple hard drives, you can install one OS on each hard drive. You can use the boot device menu of your motherboard, that you can bring up by a function key (usually F12), to select which OS to boot. Having to press a function key in order to boot to an OS other than the default one is the main disadvantage of this scheme.

The advantage of this scheme is that you can re-install or even delete any OS with no consequence on the functionality of the others.

 

[Joe Average]

I have to ask: is there a particularly logical reason for the "hiding" aspect of this?

 

[trooper11]

this isnt about security, I only want to hide the drives from 'my computer' so that no one accidently uses it to store files or install something. this isnt to deter someone actively wishing to access the drives, just to avoid any accidents and just for asthetic reasons (i dont know why, but I dont like seeing the other OS drives cluttering up explorer).

I have tried going through the process of hiding a drive by removing its drive letter, but you cant do that for a drive with the OS already installed on it.

I know there are other boot managers out there besides the Vista manager that are supposedly more robust/reliable, I just wanted some suggestions for that.

 

[Joe Average]

The simplest answer I can muster is: it's not going to happen. Windows will always "see" the other OSes on the drive. You might be able to hide the drive letters, but that doesn't mean Windows won't still "see" what's there. It's kinda like the BIOS - people think the BIOS is in control of the PC and it's not, at least not when POST is complete: as soon as POST is finished, control of the hardware is turned over to the OS and it handles all the routines, the calls, the control, from that point on.

Bleh... been up all night, I'm rambling.

While I'm sure you have your reasons for the attempt at this, in the long run you're not going to get far with it unless someone can come up with a piece of third party software that'll manage some wizardry because Windows itself ain't likely to do it.

 

[MrF]

I have tried going through the process of hiding a drive by removing its drive letter, but you cant do that for a drive with the OS already installed on it.

I tried it on a virtual machine before posting.
What did you exactly do that did not work?

I installed XP on the first partition. Then, installed Windows 7 on the second partition.
Booted to XP and removed the drive letter of Windows 7. No problem.

Booted to Windows 7 and removed the drive letter of XP. In this case, I got a warning that files on the drive were being accessed so the letter will be removed but it will still be accessible until next reboot.
I rebooted and the drive was gone.

The boot menu still comes up and I can boot to either OS.

 

[trooper11]

I tried it on a virtual machine before posting.
What did you exactly do that did not work?

I installed XP on the first partition. Then, installed Windows 7 on the second partition.
Booted to XP and removed the drive letter of Windows 7. No problem.

Booted to Windows 7 and removed the drive letter of XP. In this case, I got a warning that files on the drive were being accessed so the letter will be removed but it will still be accessible until next reboot.
I rebooted and the drive was gone.

The boot menu still comes up and I can boot to either OS.

Interesting, Im going to try it again then. I could have sworn that when I tried to remove the drive letter in Vista for the XP drive, there was an error that prevented me from removing it and didnt give any option to just reboot and have it removed. Ill try it within XP for the Vista drive as well and see if the result is different.

My goal is definitely just a superficial one. I dont mind windows seeing the drive and being able to access it, I just wasnt able to hide the drive letter in order to accomplish the goal of hiding the drive from explorer.

Ill try it again when I get home and see what the exact message is.

Beyond this, does anyone know of a third party boot manager or is the Vista boot manager the way to go for this scenario?

 

[MrF]

I created an XP-Vista dual boot with XP installed first.
Vista did not let me remove the drive letter of XP as you had noticed.

My mistake was to assume that Vista would behave the same as Windows 7.
It does not.

 

[MrF]

this isnt about security, I only want to hide the drives from 'my computer' so that no one accidently uses it to store files or install something.

You can use "Local Group Policy Editor" to hide the system partition, or any other partition, in Windows explorer.

In Vista click on "Start" and type "gpedit.msc" and hit Return.
In the Local Group Policy Editor window that opens, expand to "User Configuration\Administration Templates\Windows Components\Windows Explorer" and right click on "Hide these specified drives in My Computer" and click on "Properties".

Select "Enable" and select "Restrict ....". You can pick any combination of drives to hide (restrict).

You can use Disk Manager in XP and in Windows 7.

 

[trooper11]

great, thanks for the info, ill give this a try tonight. its strange that 7 and XP work the same way and yet Vista requires a different work around, but I dont care as long as it works lol.


btw, does anyone have suggestions about a bootmanager to use.

 

[MrF]

its strange that 7 and XP work the same way and yet Vista requires a different work around, .

7 and XP do not work the same!

Your system partition is your XP partition. So, when you are booting to XP, XP does not need any of the other two partitions. That is why you can hide the other two partitions in that case. You would not be able to do that if the system partition was Vista or Windows 7.

The OS that is behaving differently than the other two is Windows 7. I am not understanding this perfectly myself. But, it seems that Windows 7 can hide its own system partition!!!!

 

[trooper11]

wow that is pretty strange, i would think that would be a dangerous option to have.

 

[MrF]

wow that is pretty strange, i would think that would be a dangerous option to have.

If you install Windows 7 on an empty hard drive (that has boot priority over any other hard drive in your system), it will automatically create a 200MB system partition. When installation is complete, you will not be able to see the system partition in Windows explorer as it is hidden. But, you can see it under disk manager.

So, a hidden system partition for Windows 7 is actually an intended feature.