Xigmatek Watercooling Build - Heat Dissipation Question

D

DMFD-Minister

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
416
Battlefield 3 has driven me into the need to put together a new machine. I'm going to be running the following build:

ASRock Z68 Professional Gen 3 (Fatality Board)
Intel 2500K
8GB G.Skill Sniper 1.25V Memory
AMD Radeon 6990
AMD Radeon 6970 (trifire)
3 or 4 hard drives
Ultra X4 1050W
3x24" @ 5760x1080 (before anyone asks why I need this much graphics power - nope, not going to be running quadfire on a single 20" screen ;))

My goal is going to be to overclock the CPU to 4.7ish or higher, and do a mild overclock on the 6990 to bring it up to the same clock/core speeds as a 6970 is. Using This Power Estimator, I was able to estimate that watercooling the 2500K at 4.8GHz at 1.42v, the 6990, and the 6970 would require me to be able to dissipate 720W of heat.

My problem is that the only guide I could find to help me figure out what rad size I would need required me to login and pay money to use the forum. I have never done WC before, and don't want to skimp, or screw anything up on my first system. I've been pouring through guides for the past 3-4 weeks every day and I've been learning a lot. I've learned that heat dissipation varies greatly based on the pump/flow rate, fan size / fan speed, Rad size, fin dispersion, etc.

Anyone out there with more experience than me know what I would need to cool all three of these in a single loop?

The case I'm about 90% on for cooling is the Xigmatek Elysium. From my reading, if I bottom-mount my PSU, I can fit a 420 or 360 on the top, and a 120 on the bottom because the Ultra X4 will take up 1 1/2 fan slots. However, judging from THIS Picture, I have plenty of room for a very thick radiator on top (2ish 5.25" drive bays thick). I would prefer to have a single Rad in the Loop rather than have more line to run to multiple rads.

Watercooling Components I'd like to stick with:

XSPC Dual 5.25" Front Bay Reservoir w. VPP655 or MCP655 (Or something comparable - I want the reservoir in the 5.25" bays)
MCP655 or similar Pump with excellent reputation
I will be attempting to track down Gentle Typhoon fans for this application
Compression fittings

I haven't gotten much farther than this. Choosing waterblocks, fittings, and figuring out how to connect all those is something I still have yet to explore.

Thanks in advance to all you smart people out there who have learned the ways of the WC. I only hope to become smart enough to be able to contribute in the future. :)
 
Last edited:
Just as an update, spent most of the day poking around and it seems that most people doing this setup do two rads, usually a combination like 420+280, 360+360, 360+240 in push/pull configuration if possible, and sometimes in two loops (which...meh...sounds like a lot more work).

I did stumble across Skineelabs where there seems to be a roundup of some of the radiators out there for 2011-2012 in terms that I actually understand (being new to all the terms...but I'm learning). What I found very interesting was the Airplex Revolution 420/360 rad, a little know product which beat all of the competition quite handily. I think this combined with a Black Ice GT Stealth 280 (or something similar) would get the job done for me.

So I think in the Xigmatek case, I should be able to throw the 420mm rad on the top and a 140/280 on the bottom or front. The front of the case can actually accommodate a 480 rad, but I would rather not lose all of drive bays. From watching This Youtube Xigmatek Review, I was able to determine that I can put a full-size 420 rad WITH room for Push/Pull internally without getting in the way of the motherboard.

Now to find some 140mm fans that are quiet and move a lot of air. Unfortunately, the Gentle Typhoon AP-15 is 120mm, so I'm going to have to find an alternative.:(
 
That airplex review was skewed. They tested a 420 radiator against 360 radiators. And they didn't test against the top performing 360 radiator, the Black Ice GTX 360. The GTX 360 will probably still beat it in the higher fan speed range, and a GTX 420 will definitely beat the pants off of it.

Be careful with a 420 radiator though. Most (if not all) 420 radiators are wider than the 5.25" bays, and you would need to do some cutting. It's not clear in the video if the 420 exists completely outside of the 5.25" bays, but if it does, then you should be good.

If you want the best 420mm radiator for performance fans, that is the Black Ice GTX 420. There simply is no other radiator with the high fin density and the thickness that could compare with the GTX series. For lower speed fans (1200 RPM or less), the Airplex would be a good choice.

Noiseblockers would be your best bet for performance fans with quietness in the 140mm range. For my setup, I'm actually going to add 2150 RPM Gentle Typhoons to my GTS 420 using 120-140mm adapters.

That is indeed a very nice case though. If I ever decide to sell my Cosmos 1000, that definitely would be my next case. Although, I am very partial to the Cosmos styling, so I may end up getting a Cosmos 2 instead, lol.
 
I myself was very impressed with the performance of the GT fans, it really is a shame they aren't making them in 140mm. Myself, i'd probly put a 360 up top and a 360 or 240mm up front to give you sufficient cooling. Not being super familiar with the case tho, can you fit a front mounted 360 along with a double 5.25 bay res?

If not, you could probly do a 240 up front and go 120mm or 240mm at the bottom? Possibly cut yourself out a bit more area in the bottom to fit another if required?

As for blocks, any of the new cpu blocks should be more than sufficient, EK supreme HF, swiftech HD, or xspc raystorm are all top of the line. you may be limited by what 6990 block you can pick up but i'd guess you'd have at least 2-3 options. 6970 will have good selection, just make sure your card and your block are compatible as there maybe be custom pcb's or board revisions.

Personally, i'd go single loop, with your dual pumps and as much rad as you think you can handle and plumb in the case. IMO dual loops are more money, more hassle, no redundancy, and constricted performance compared to a single loop.
 
Just an update:

I ordered most of my parts today. I found the GT AP-15 fans and the landslide broke loose after that, lol. After reading through the new thread about the Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra, I discovered the the Elysium actually has two other counterparts that use the same design, being the Blackhawk and the Aerocool Strike-X ST. I've decided to go with the Aerocool design as my case is going to be red and black on the inside and out if possible, and it also enables me to install a 200mm radiator on the bottom of the case.

I also found that the AC Airplex Revolution traded blows with the Black Ice GT-420 depending on who was doing the testing. Sometime it performed better, sometimes worse, but it's $50 cheaper than the Black Ice model (not like I'm mincing pennies here as you can probably gather from the below). You can also stack the Airplex like legos, which is a neat feature.

AeroCool Strike-X ST
AquaComputer Airplex Revolution 420/360
(6) Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 1850RPM Fans
(6) Bitspower Low-Profile 120mm to 140mm fan adapters
(1) MCP-655 Variable Speed Pump
(1) XSPC D5 Dual-Bay Resevoir
(1) XSPC Raystorm CPU Waterblock
Bitspower Matte Black Compression Fittings (didn't know these things were so dang expensive, but I want the aesthetic and security they provide)
(1) Koolance Inline Brass Drain Valve (thought this might be a good idea at the bottom of my loop
10 ft Tygon 3/8" ID 1/2" OD tubing


Obviously this is overkill for a CPU, but once I get this setup and get more comfortable with water cooling, I'm going to add a waterblock to a 6990 and 6970 that will be running tri-fire.I'm also going to add a 200mm radiator at that time.


Thoughts? Anything I'm missing?
 
Mind giving me the links to where you found the comparisons between the GTX radiator and the Airplex Revolution? The only comparison I could find is with a SR-1 radiator, which is not the same as a GTX radiator.

You should stick a Mo-Ra Pro3 on that side panel :D

A barb with a worm-gear clamp is as secure or more secure than compression fittings.

You should have gotten 5/8" OD tubing. With 1/2", the walls are a bit thin, and that can lead to bending problems (kinking).
 
Tsumi said:
Mind giving me the links to where you found the comparisons between the GTX radiator and the Airplex Revolution? The only comparison I could find is with a SR-1 radiator, which is not the same as a GTX radiator.
Click to expand...

http://www.dexgo.com/index.php?site=artikel/view.php&id=488&rubrik=Hardware&seite=4
This link shows a few comparisons. At 140mm, it's compared to the Black Ice GT 420, which at lower speeds it's competitive. Unfortunately, they can't hook 120mm fans up to the black ice like you can to the airplex, so they have to compare it against a 360 rad, which isn't 100% fair, but they are using fans on the same amount of surface area. Seemed that price / performance was pretty good vs. dropping $160 on Black Ice product.

http://www.tech-review.de/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=8588&page=5
This link has SR1 numbers


Tsumi said:
You should stick a Mo-Ra Pro3 on that side panel :D
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right...that would be awesome and entirely overkill ;)



Tsumi said:
You should have gotten 5/8" OD tubing. With 1/2", the walls are a bit thin, and that can lead to bending problems (kinking).
Click to expand...

Perhaps...was just following the tubing guide on FrozenCPU. Supposedly Tygon doesn't kink as badly as some other products. I also got four 45 degree compression fittings to help ease the bending in between connection points. Crossing my fingers and will live and learn if I did it wrong. Let's hope I'm ok though
 
DMFD-Minister said:
http://www.dexgo.com/index.php?site=artikel/view.php&id=488&rubrik=Hardware&seite=4
This link shows a few comparisons. At 140mm, it's compared to the Black Ice GT 420, which at lower speeds it's competitive. Unfortunately, they can't hook 120mm fans up to the black ice like you can to the airplex, so they have to compare it against a 360 rad, which isn't 100% fair, but they are using fans on the same amount of surface area. Seemed that price / performance was pretty good vs. dropping $160 on Black Ice product.

http://www.tech-review.de/include.php?path=content/articles.php&contentid=8588&page=5
This link has SR1 numbers




You're absolutely right...that would be awesome and entirely overkill ;)





Perhaps...was just following the tubing guide on FrozenCPU. Supposedly Tygon doesn't kink as badly as some other products. I also got four 45 degree compression fittings to help ease the bending in between connection points. Crossing my fingers and will live and learn if I did it wrong. Let's hope I'm ok though
Click to expand...

That compared to the GTS, which is an entirely different beast from the GTX. The GTS 420 is actually the radiator I use in my system, as you can see in my signature. And the GTS is $10 cheaper than the Airplex.

You can clearly see the effects of high FPI with high speed fans. As I said, that Airplex would be good for low speed, but would not be good at high speeds. In fact, according to the review, GTS surpasses the Airplex at 1000 RPM, and flat out beats it at 1500 RPM. How large do you think the difference would be with shrouded 1850 RPM Gentle Typhoons? It'll be even larger. So, with your choice of fans, the GTS radiator would have been the far superior choice.
 
Thanks Tsumi! I definitely appreciate the guidance here. I'm working on canceling my order now as I don't believe it's shipped and will pick up a 420 GTS if that works.
 
Major snag #1. The spacing between holes where one 140mm fan ends and the next one ends is 15mm on the Aerocool Strike-X ST. The spacing on the Black Ice GT is 20mm. *this is measuring from the center of one hole to the center of the next* I read from two other sources that spacing is 15mm.

This is very confusing. Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought this stuff was supposed to be standardized? Is there a way I can check this detail before getting the next one? I'm guessing I'm going to have to go with a RX 360 or something similar, but I'd hate to run into this issue a second time. Is there any way I can ensure that other radiators use the 15mm spacing?

Tsumi, you said you have the 420 GT? Does yours have 20mm spacing and how did you work around that?

Major Snag #2 - Even if I could somehow get the holes to line up, the fan control headers on top are in the way of the 420 radiator and the hard drive cage is in the way on the bottom.



I'm planning on doing a short writeup and posting pictures of the case and talking about some of the problems I'm running into and the dimensions that a lot of folks reviewing are leaving out. Looks like the Black Ice 420GT is going back and getting replaced by something like a RX 360

Edit:

Missed this design sheet:

d_gts420.jpg


So it's not a manufacturer mistake. So then the question is what is standard width?
 
Last edited:
I'm putting together an SR-2 watercooling build in one of these monsters right now. I'm debating on how to rig up mounting for a 240 rad in the front drive bay section, any thoughts?
 
R-Type said:
I'm putting together an SR-2 watercooling build in one of these monsters right now. I'm debating on how to rig up mounting for a 240 rad in the front drive bay section, any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'm doing measurements on this right now and it just plain looks like it's going to be a pain in the ass. The hard drive cage isn't moveable without some relatively serious modification and cutting of the metal. You're going to need a seriously thin rad to fit up front. The width on the 420GTS (31.3mm) is OK, but you have to slide it in diagonally and I'm not sure it would be able to make the corner. I think a 240 at the same width could probably slide in there, although one at 27-28mm would be better. Now that the rad is in there, you have the problem of the 1/4" barbs or compression fittings. My compression fittings are about 25mm from where they come out of the rad to where the connection terminates. This will not fit up front. I don't have any experience with barbs, they might work IF you can somehow align the barbs with the gaps in the side of the hard drive cage, but then you have to deal with clamps.

Honestly, without cutting out the bottom 1-2 hard drive slots, I don't see how to get a rad up front with fittings and have it work. If the fittings are pointing straight down towards the bottom of the case, you *might* have enough room to eek something out, but I've never seen a rad with a design like that.

I know my 1/2"OD tubing does with just barely through the holes drilled along the sides of the hard drive caging.

45mm - Clearance from fan grill to hard drive cage
30mm - approx opening on rear side of case to be able to squeeze a radiator into that area be
13mm - width of the holes along the sides of the hard drive cage
31.3mm - width of the Black Ice 420 GTS
 
DMFD-Minister said:
I'm doing measurements on this right now and it just plain looks like it's going to be a pain in the ass. The hard drive cage isn't moveable without some relatively serious modification and cutting of the metal. You're going to need a seriously thin rad to fit up front. The width on the 420GTS (31.3mm) is OK, but you have to slide it in diagonally and I'm not sure it would be able to make the corner. I think a 240 at the same width could probably slide in there, although one at 27-28mm would be better. Now that the rad is in there, you have the problem of the 1/4" barbs or compression fittings. My compression fittings are about 25mm from where they come out of the rad to where the connection terminates. This will not fit up front. I don't have any experience with barbs, they might work IF you can somehow align the barbs with the gaps in the side of the hard drive cage, but then you have to deal with clamps.

Honestly, without cutting out the bottom 1-2 hard drive slots, I don't see how to get a rad up front with fittings and have it work. If the fittings are pointing straight down towards the bottom of the case, you *might* have enough room to eek something out, but I've never seen a rad with a design like that.

I know my 1/2"OD tubing does with just barely through the holes drilled along the sides of the hard drive caging.

45mm - Clearance from fan grill to hard drive cage
30mm - approx opening on rear side of case to be able to squeeze a radiator into that area be
13mm - width of the holes along the sides of the hard drive cage
31.3mm - width of the Black Ice 420 GTS
Click to expand...

I've removed the top hard drive cage and will supsend the rad/fan stack between the vertical 5.25'' supports. I'm putting a Black Ice Xtreme II 240 up front with gutted fan shrouds and 38mm thick panaflo's, there was never any chance it would fit in front of the drive bays. :p

Still, with this configuration I can keep the bottom hd bracket for 4 drives, then put the 240, and still have room for the BD Burner and fan controller up top. I'm using the mcp-655 and micro res as well, where did you elect to mount them?

EDIT: Reading fail, I missed that you were going to use a 5.25 reservoir/pump combo.
 
Ah, I get it, I was confused at first. I actually switched cases, so I went from the Elysium to the Aerocool Strike-X ST. It's kind of the same but a bit different, but I can't change the title of the thread. In the aerocool, everything is riveted in, so I'm going to be doing a little cutting. I need to order a few different rads now, so I can't start a work log yet, but I'm eventually going to document everything if I can find the time.
 
DMFD-Minister said:
Ah, I get it, I was confused at first. I actually switched cases, so I went from the Elysium to the Aerocool Strike-X ST. It's kind of the same but a bit different, but I can't change the title of the thread. In the aerocool, everything is riveted in, so I'm going to be doing a little cutting. I need to order a few different rads now, so I can't start a work log yet, but I'm eventually going to document everything if I can find the time.
Click to expand...

Very nice, I look forward to seeing it. The same OEM appears to make the Elysium, Strike-X ST and the Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147157

As an SR-2 owner, its nice to see some aesthetically varied options finally arriving even if they are all very similar inside.
 
I thought I'd post back with my solution to front mounted radiators in the Elysium in case anyone else finds this thread and has the same question. In short, I installed nut reinforced hard drive rail screw into the radiator and suspended it between the 5.25 vertical supports. The pictures show this clearer than my description, the mounting is very stable and I'm happy with the results. :)

GlwM3.jpg

YrojK.jpg

InoHX.jpg
 
Nice creativity on that mounting - love the metal wire holding it in place :)


Just got back from Lowes with a Dremel kit. I can't really begin work on this thing until I get my radiators in. I'd rather not have to dismantle the case in a few months to add the second radiator I have planned....might as well just knock it out in one fell swoop.

Here's for hoping a 360 +240 can cool an overclocked 2500k, and a 6990 + 6970 trifire and 6970....
 
That rad combo should be ok, maybe not the coolest setup in the world but I have a single SR-1 280 (2x140) rad cooling my 2600k @ 4.7Ghz and I will be putting my GTX 580 on it soon. my CPU never goes over 60c.

Your 2500k even @ 5ghz will not be putting that much heat into the loop but that is 3 or 4 GPUs? not sure what you wording means there? 6990 + 6970 trifire and 6970? what is the "and 6970" mean? do you just mean quad-fire? 6990 + 6970 + 6970? if so then 4 GPUs might be a bit much but I think it can handle it... I would have stuck a 360 in the front and top of that HUGE HUGE case. case is MASSIVE.
 
To answer your question about the 420 spacing:

Yes, my case had 20mm spacing between the fans. The GTS 420 lined up perfectly, although I did have to mod the case for the third fan. The Cosmos 1000 only has 2 140mm fan spots.
 
Nickbaldwin86 said:
Your 2500k even @ 5ghz will not be putting that much heat into the loop but that is 3 or 4 GPUs? not sure what you wording means there? 6990 + 6970 trifire and 6970? what is the "and 6970" mean? do you just mean quad-fire? 6990 + 6970 + 6970? if so then 4 GPUs might be a bit much but I think it can handle it... I would have stuck a 360 in the front and top of that HUGE HUGE case. case is MASSIVE.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the confusion. The "and 6970" was an editing error. It'll be 3 GPUs, probably won't be overclocking, just throwing the switch on the 6990. We'll see how my temps are and I'll make a judgment from that.

Not sure if you saw in the thread, but I've decided to go with the Aerocool Strike-X ST. I'm trying to do very minimal case modding. While the case is quite big, it could be better. Unfortunately, I can't fit a 360 up front as there is only room for a 280/240 (unless I started removing 5.25 bays). I would have done a 420/280, but Aerocool screwed up the hole spacing on the case.

When I get this thing together, I'm going to do a write-up as soon as I have some time to point out some of the limitations of the case.

Thanks for your input!
 
Sorry about your fitting troubles, I think most 420 radiators use the 20mm fan spacing. Aerocool dropped the ball on that one, as the majority of 140mm radiators that are out there use 20mm fan spacing. Black Ice makes most of the 140mm radiators, and have had their products on the market much longer than any other company.

Looking at some others, it seems like the Airplex and the TFC X-changer are exceptions to that, using 15mm fan spacing. Seriously, what the hell is with the non-standard size on these 360/420 radiators?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top