XIGMATEK PS shows no -5 V output. Problem?

Discussion in 'Power Supplies' started by sohosources, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. sohosources

    sohosources n00b

    Messages:
    52
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Hi, gang:

    I recently ordered a XIGMATEK 400-W PS (Model PC402) from newegg so I'd have something halfway decent (yet inexpensive) laying around for emergencies, troubleshooting, powering refurb PCs, etc.

    I used it to test a PC the other day, and when I connected the PS to my el-cheapo power supply tester, it showed no -5 V output, although all other voltages indicated correctly.

    I connected several other junker supplies to the tester to confirm, and each of the other PSs showed -5 V (in addition to all the other usual voltages).

    Is this XIGMATEK supply toast?

    I haven't tried powering a working PC with it, but I did mention it to XIGMATEK tech support, which hasn't gotten back to me yet about the issue and whether it's RMA-worthy.

    What d'ya think?

    --Kirk in MN

    P.S. I guess I should have tested it prior to the egg's 30-day return period, eh?
     
  2. plugwash

    plugwash [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,532
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Those "junker PSUs" must be pretty old, the -5V rail was first made optional and then removed from the spec completely a long time ago. Your PSU is fine unless you are trying to power REALLY old stuff (some ISA cards need -5V).

    I find it pretty lame that their tech support doesn't know this though!
     
  3. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Aye, the -5v rail was phased out with ATX 2.x in 2002/2003 iirc.. PSUs available now that still have it are Really old designs and literally junk by current standards ;)
     
  4. sohosources

    sohosources n00b

    Messages:
    52
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Thanks for the info...

    I'm a bit embarrassed that I missed the "dropping of the spec," but I'm glad that the PS is probably fine...

    The "junker" PS in question is a Sparkle FSP-350-60BT which, as I recall, wasn't really a junker after all. I think it's from 2002-2004, and ya gotta feel good when the FSP-made 350-watter weighs more than most 600-watters.

    I don't usually like using PSs that are that old -- even good-quality supplies -- in new builds, but it should still be fine for powering a low-end refurb, etc.

    Thanks again for the info!

    --Kirk in MN
     
  5. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Sparkle was once very good. They were then bought off by FSP, hopefully no effect on Sparkle design, but I dunno. FSP is ODM/OEM. They can make very good units... for other customers. Their own marketed designs tend to be horrible.
     
  6. sohosources

    sohosources n00b

    Messages:
    52
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    It's amazing how a manufacturer's products seem to ebb and flow in quality. I don't remember the details, but I do remember reading about how high-quality and conservatively rated the Sparkle supplies were back in the day. But when I look at the feedback scores today, Sparkle seems to have taken a dive...

    I remember how I'd always buy 750-W PC Power and Cooling supplies for my own builds, but now that I'm buying Seasonic, a friend tells me that the latest incarnation of PC Power and Cooling units doesn't match its ancestors in the quality department.

    And right now, Brother printers are right at the top of quality and customer satisfaction...and companies like HP, which used to be right there at the top of the mountain, have fallen into the depths...

    Ah...keeping track of it all!

    --Kirk in MN
     
  7. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Don't swallow everything you read.. it's about the hype really, and at the moment that's Corsair and obviously Seasonic... that doesn't mean Sparkle(SPI) is bad, on the contrary, the 85+ series are FSP new Epsilon series, 80+ Silver units with solid performance and exceptional efficiency for their price and rating..
    Same is true for the PCP&C units, although the OCZ takeover didn't do them any favors, units like the Silencer 760 and 910 are exceptional performers and(@ newegg) best buys..
     
  8. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    The 80+ Silver Epsilons are not exactly good units.

    The 760 and 910 are 2 to 4 year old designs that are consistently outclassed and were "resurrected" after the Silencer MkII's debacle.

    ;)
     
  9. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Well, honestly they're more than good for the price.. yeah, they're group regulated designs but they do extremely well for what they are; The first Epsilons were shitty units, but the 85+ series are a different story, and i guess we can't suspect Gabriel of fowl play in this review which speaks volumes about the platform in question :)

    I can't agree with that either Paul, the Seasonic M12D is still one of the best performing, upper mainstream platforms on the market.. with solid build quality, excellent regulation and output quality @ hard to beat prices; it still has better ripple suppression than the AX and most anything else on the market ;)

    edit: spelling
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  10. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    No, no they don't do really well for what they are. The design is still subpar and are a "buy something else". Also, that review is not of the 80Plus silver units.


    You can disagree all you want, objectively the 760 and 910 are outclassed by other designs on the market and their relaunch only managed to bring PC Power and Cooling back to where they were quality and performancewise 4 years ago. There really aren't two ways about that.
     
  11. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Linked the wrong review ;)
    Here you go, might change your mind..
    Can you exemplify that with a similarly priced unit that outclasses the Silencer 760 for example!? I'm not a PCP&C advocate, and I agree they don't stand up to the brand image they had in the most part of the last decade, but they're not the trash that the commonly accepted ignorance makes of them..
     
  12. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-TX750-V2-Power-Supply-Review/1227/7

    same price, actually cheaper after MIR (E: I take that back. it's cheaper before and after MIR)

    That, and it kicks the Silencer 760's face in performance. In addition it that, it's slightly smaller (I am eyeballing this based off of the pics, since I cannot find the silencer's specs readily avalible), and it's made by Seasonic.

    http://hardocp.com/article/2011/04/27/corsair_enthusiast_series_tx750_v2_psu_review

    despite what you said earlier, about Seasonic being a trend, they aren't. They have been consistently good, with only one platform that I know of that performed wierdly under an unsual load configuration (everything 12V, nothing on the other rails...).
     
  13. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Not likely because, I know the voltage regulation when those units will run is barely in specification to out of specification (which Gabe doesn't tell you). That is when they will run.


    Seasonic AT based units, SuperFlower Golden Green based units, etc.
     
  14. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    No, the AT platform does not perform better than the M12D design used by the Silencer 760 and 910, which is a fact you should know as well as anyone else.
     
  15. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Well, the TX V2 is SS-xxxAT, which is an inferior platform to the one used by the Silencer, and the TX V2 is worst in every way, ripple, regulation, efficiency.. what were you trying to prove?..

    Now, about Seasonic not being a trend because they're generally good to excellent, i never said they weren't.. but that doesn't make them the only solid choice available and by no means does it invalidate anything else available on the market, and that is exactly what you see in pretty much every discussion on the topic, if it's not Seasonic it's not worthy of attention, and that is pure ignorance..

    edit: spelling
     
  16. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    That is an 80 Plus Silver 600W 80$ unit on newegg, in my book that's a deal :)
    Golden Green is just excellent, but in a different pricing league, while SS-xxxAT is inferior to M12D in every single way ;)
     
  17. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    The AT has better voltage regulation and even to better DC output quality than the S12D. Other than that, sure why not the S12D is better.
     
  18. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    lol, I based it off of the review you linked :p

    Why the hell did you even bring up the silencer, and link a review to a piece of shit?
     
  19. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Why don't you read the thread!? ;)
     
  20. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Only slightly better than the 910 watt unit, which is a stretch for the platform... otherwise the M12D is superior, as is should be, it's more expensive..
     
  21. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    The S12D has better voltage regulation and they are about equal in output quality. The S12D is also more efficient. For the sake of a direct comparison, here are reviews of both PSUs by the same person:
    http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/PC-Power-Cooling-Silencer-760W-Power-Supply-Review'
    http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Corsair-Enthusiast-TX750-V2-and-TX850-V2-PSU-Review
     
  22. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    And crmaris gets them at a push, and the units I have tested the AT did better (Oklahoma's AT units also do significantly better than Lee's). :eek:
     
  23. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Yes, Jeremy's did do better, but taking into account unit by unit variations and the fact that we're talking under 2% regulation in almost all cases, it's basically a wash between the two platforms aside from efficiency, in which the S12D does better.
     
  24. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    I read the thread, it was a lot of useless back and forth, with a challange at the rear end. So I took the challange for what it was worth at face value :p
     
  25. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    .

    ;)
     
  26. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Alright, so now we've established that your original statement that the AT platform is better was incorrect, and that your later statement that it has better voltage regulation and DC output quality was also incorrect, and that the S12D platform is indeed better overall than the AT platform. I'm satisfied.
     
  27. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Oh come on, it was a lame out, and while being wrong is not something easy to admit, you should try it sometimes ;)
     
  28. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    only to you, for me, I stand by what I have said. Of course, you're part of why I didn't read the whole thread :p Then again...nvm, keep replying.
     
  29. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    lol, you knew exactly what you were contradicting, you simply didn't knew that you were wrong.. it happens ;)
     
  30. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Or better yet, I got into a thread of people who took my initial speculation on potential Sparkle quality the wrong way.
     
  31. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    The argument in question has nothing to do with Sparkle.. but with TX V2 vs Silvencer;), anyway, you should quit while your behind, your contribution to this thread ended at post no 5 :)
     
  32. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Or better yet, you jumped into a thread about a subject you don't know about, and started posting incorrect statements.
     
  33. jeremyshaw

    jeremyshaw [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,041
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    It's about to end near 20 (if I counted correctly).

    EDIT: I didn't.
     
  34. Paul_Johnson

    Paul_Johnson [H] Admin Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,516
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    It has better voltage regulation and better to even DC Output quality like I said. Conveniently making it a wash because it is within an arbitrary value in the end to erase the differences doesn't change the numbers ;)

     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  35. Zero82z

    Zero82z [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    27,897
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Except that is obviously not a consistent result, since Lee's sample had worse voltage regulation. I could spend all night pulling data from AT and S12D reviews only to conclude that on average they have about equivalent voltage regulation, but quite frankly that would just be even more of a waste of time than posting here in the first place.
     
  36. merliwolf

    merliwolf Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    You guys just need to agree to disagree.
    But honestly I find it really sad that PC Power makes a comeback using 4 year old Seasonic Models. Is that really supposed to be a comeback? If you're going to be a supposed top of the line psu maker, shouldn't you have 80plus gold/platinum psus with extremely good ripple and regulation? I don't see that from them, I see basically copies of all the other psu resellers.
     
  37. Profumo

    Profumo Gawd

    Messages:
    681
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Well, Steve Lee(the guy responsible for Corsair's PSU division and its success) recently got back to OCZ, so cool things are to be expected from PCP&C in the near future ;)
     
  38. merliwolf

    merliwolf Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Meh the proof is in the pudding. Also even if they actually come out with something good, I'm more than satisfied with seasonic, corsair, and antec anyways. It'll take a long time for them to win me over, that's for sure.