XFX vs. EVGA warranty misunderstandings around the web

XFXSupport said:
Currently we do not have a step up program. Our Double Lifetime warranty applies if you sell or give the video card away, it is your choice. We do have a modder friendly warranty that allows you to overclock or change the fan/heat sink as long as you do not physically damage the product.
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Is this international or just for the States?
 
I like XFX and all, but this thread deserves to be locked. It's full of false information and such. XFX does not have a step-up program, and they do not cover "physical damage" to the card.
 
RussianHAXXOR must be stuck at work dealing with the hundreds of stepups or he would have already chimed in here. But if you read carefully, i'm 99% sure that physical damage means "you were a moron and broke something trying to change heatsinks"
 
skytripa said:
This is from evga's website.

http://www.evga.com/support/faq/afmviewfaq.aspx?faqid=55
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"Overclocking our products does not void the warranty as long as there is no physical damage to the product or missing components."

So overclocking alone does NOT void warranty. I agree with the OP in saying if it DID manage burn or blow something then it would not be covered. This would not make me beileve that EVGA isnt overclocker friendly. In 9 years ive never blown a video card out from overclocking alone but im sure some have.

OP, I think the main thing is your bashing EVGA as not overclocker friendly when in fact thier forums totally support it and it doesnt automatically void a warranty. I can see your points but your post looks to put XFX on top of EVGA and then you start a Fan war you dont want to be in the middle of. I like both companies.. it comes down to price with me.
 
ok so after reading through this entire thread it seems to me that the point that needs clarification from both manufacturers is this, if you overclock the video card to the point that it gets fried, burnt, blows a cap etc does that void the warranty? That would be physical damage no?

The other situtuation is that if you have oc'd the card and it fails somehow, but not due to the oc itself, how can they prove it?
 
Blown caps are not always due to overclocks or higher voltages, sometimes they just blow. Besides there's no way to tell that overclocking/overvolting burned out the GPU I think the main thing both manufacturers have problems with are damage done when changing the heatsinks.
 
lucky777 said:
Blown caps are not always due to overclocks or higher voltages, sometimes they just blow. Besides there's no way to tell that overclocking/overvolting burned out the GPU I think the main thing both manufacturers have problems with are damage done when changing the heatsinks.
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and volt mods where you PHYSICALLY mod the card to obtain a higher voltage so you can increase your OC even higher.

example: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/149
 
if there is no way to tell that then why even mention it? Further to why dont all manufacturers cover this?
 
dignatec said:
I'm not bashing either company.
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Anyone with half a brain can see that you are.

Caps and voltage regulation equipment can blow for other reasons than overclocking, their have been bad batches of video cards in the past that both companies have honored the warranties of.

I think people are confusing XFX with BFG. BFG Just started doing their own step up program for cards released after feb 21st (9600GT and up).
 
XFX warranty sucks for us Europeans, atleast evga have a 10 year warranty for us compared with 1 year i think for XFX, if its more than 1 year it is definetly less than 3, I personally will never buy xfx again due to them treating us euro customers like crap compared to the warranty deal the US gets.
 
to the OP, your definition of overclocking is wrong in my opinion, you don't physicaly modify anything for most overclocks, programs like rivatuner modify the drivers NOT the cards them self and don't touch the voltage levels.

Now, volt modding or flashing the BIOS of a card with a Overclock is a modification to the card itself and I would imagine would not be covered by warranty, but a simple software based overclock is not a modification to the card itself and would be covered by warranty.
 
Looks like the op did a great job on clearing up these companies warranties. :p
 
I wish someone would clear up how I get a free game (COD4 or Company of Heroes).that the OP said comes with an XFX card.
 
EVGA completely and wholly allows over clocking as long as you do not physically damage the card, aka mess up the PCB or knock off capacitors. You can switch the Cooler to anything you like as long as you dont break anything on the board doing so. Also be sure to keep all of the components of the old stock cooler because you will have to reattach it when and if you RMA.

This is the second thread where someone takes the EVGA warranty and over analyzes it. I understand why you guys worry about this because some companies have very sneaky warranty policies, but this is not the case. You can overclock the chip and you can swap out the cooler, EVGA will NEVER deny your RMA on the grounds if you overclocked the card or not. Period.

I will see if i can get the wording of the warranty changed so this issue does not pop up again.
 
dignatec said:
Wow, what is wrong with people? Where does it say mod damage is not covered on XFX's website, go ahead and find that statement.

Guess what..It's not there. So who's the troll?
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-Items damaged due to modification may be refused for warranty servicing. Modification may include the physical hardware modification and overclocking.

-Items will be examined and tested before any further action will be taken. Items deemed to be faulty due to a manufacturing fault may be replaced or repaired subject to availability. If an item is replaced the replacement will be the same exact model, or model deemed as equivalent by XFX

source:
ftp://xfxsupport.com/public/other/PCA_RMA_TC.pdf

game, set, match.

So you are a troll/uneducated fud spreader, not I, good sir.

And I support XFX, they make great products and have quick and courteous customer service-- got me my 8800GT back to me in a week's time.
 
RussianHAXOR said:
EVGA completely and wholly allows over clocking as long as you do not physically damage the card, aka mess up the PCB or knock off capacitors. You can switch the Cooler to anything you like as long as you dont break anything on the board doing so. Also be sure to keep all of the components of the old stock cooler because you will have to reattach it when and if you RMA.

This is the second thread where someone takes the EVGA warranty and over analyzes it. I understand why you guys worry about this because some companies have very sneaky warranty policies, but this is not the case. You can overclock the chip and you can swap out the cooler, EVGA will NEVER deny your RMA on the grounds if you overclocked the card or not. Period.

I will see if i can get the wording of the warranty changed so this issue does not pop up again.
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Thanks for the clear up. This is how most of understood it anyways...... minus the OP.
 
veedubfreak said:
RussianHAXXOR must be stuck at work dealing with the hundreds of stepups or he would have already chimed in here. But if you read carefully, i'm 99% sure that physical damage means "you were a moron and broke something trying to change heatsinks"
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Im here ;)

And you can quote me on it about overclocking...

Copyright said:
Thanks for the clear up.
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No problem. Im here to help.
 
People,

If someone here is actually over 30 and has a background in LAW please feel free to share your opinion on the legal wording or just back off. I have taken courses in WRITING legal contracts as I was certified to do this. Now, based on what is written, the warranty could be denied if some damage was done as a result of an OC. Simple question, why not say "Any physical damage that results due to overclocking the GPU is covered, while any physical damage due to dropping/water etc..." is NOT covered. Ask yourself that question.

If I was selling you a house, I would specifically write what is included and what isn't in the transaction. I'm sure most people flaming me are either a) Very young (under 25) b) Have no background in law c) don't want to hear their warranty isn't bulletproof.

Now Russian says the wording will be changed...That in itself tells me that the point I raised is BANG ON. Due to the way it is written, my interpretation is correct. If eVGA changes the wording, then great, everyone wins. As for overanalyzing it, Russian, you mean to tell me eVGA doesn't have lawyers writing up their warranty policy? Come on man, every company does, I'm only helping interpret complicated legal language. 99% of people do not have the background to do this (esp young people in the gaming market) and as such this is not noticed. I did, that's it.

As for know way of being able to know what caused damages....Once again, unless you have a background in electrical engineering, don't make statements you can't back up. Seems like everyone here has a phd in engineering and law, and no one else can make statements to the contrary.

As for the free game, the 8800gt from XFX that I ordered comes with Company of Heroes, I can't speak for other models, but hey someone here is going to flame me for this comment as well based on what has been done so far today....

Copy: You actually agree with me using your brain and not insulting me??? Wow, this must be the day of miracles, because just earlier you were insulting me with sarcastic /rude comments. Simply b/c YOU have never burnt out any physical components, does not mean THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED. I did not start a fan war, I gave a legal interpretation of what was written to help people. Juvenile behaviour/lack of maturity by people LIKE YOU and others is what resulted in a flame war.

Enough is enough, all points have been covered and let’s drop this and move on with our lives. Lesson learned, don’t help people who do not want to be helped…
 
Copyright said:
haha... piss on the warranty.. how do I get the free game!
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Well, yeah! I'm sure from what I've read here that the warranty I have with my XFX card is good enough for me and my needs. But I also read in the OP that the XFX card comes with a free game and damn it, and I want it! But I digress, this may be only for certain promo versions as nobody has come forward to back up OP's comments regarding any freebies with an XFX card such as COD4 or Company of Heroes.
 
dignatec said:
Now Russian says the wording will be changed...That in itself tells me that the point I raised is BANG ON. Due to the way it is written, my interpretation is correct. If eVGA changes the wording, then great, everyone wins. As for overanalyzing it, Russian, you mean to tell me eVGA doesn't have lawyers writing up their warranty policy? Come on man, every company does, I'm only helping interpret complicated legal language. 99% of people do not have the background to do this (esp young people in the gaming market) and as such this is not noticed. I did, that's it.
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I understood it as physical damage when i first read the warranty, and thats what it means. Overclocking isnt physical damage because it cant be seen by the naked eye, thats what most physical damage means in most warranties. But once again, because so many people are being so picky about the wording of the warranty i will see what can be done. This all could have been resolved by calling into our support line because they would have answered you in a matter of seconds and im sure they would say the same thing. I just think that the definition of physical damage seems to be a very subjective term to certain people and is interpreted differently by each person, but in reality all that matters is how the company guaranteeing the product believes it means. I also believe that people are up in arms about this because you didnt just say that EVGA doesnt have an overclocking warranty but then proceeded to say XFX does and i really think that is what set alot of people into Flame mode.
 
And you know the great part is, both of the companies in question aren't as anal retentive about the wording of their warranties as you believe them to be, or want them to be.

I have yet to see any topics here about peoples card getting rejected on the simple fact that they were overclocked, atleast since the policies of both companies allowing overclocking have gone into effect. People who send back hardware that they have voltmodded and kill the cards because of it should be shot, but I haven't seen any of that either, atleast not them bitching when their RMA gets rejected.

Dignatec, I speak for alot of people here, we don't want you legal opinion on said matters, you have clearly shown your bias in previous statements and therefore your true intention of said statements, to cast EVGA in a light which they aren't deserving. We have seen it before, people are smarter than that, they can read the warranty information and disseminate it themselves thank you very much.
 
Dignatec:
why did you start this bullshit anyway???
did evga deny an RMA???

I'm not trying to start anything but, it's hard to believe somebody when right off the bat they have their facts wrong......example: stating that XFX had a step up program. That's just not correct and can be easily verified by visiting the website.

You just have alot of FUD in your first post that needs to go away.

Anybody who thinks about an RMA just has to/needs a clean conscience......did you break it by abuse or did the card break because it was defective??? Then call and ask somebody. simple. You don't need to over analyse the warranty information.:D

You dont need a law degree to understand: you break it, you buy it.
 
Simpson5774 said:
And you know the great part is, both of the companies in question aren't as anal retentive about the wording of their warranties as you believe them to be, or want them to be.

I have yet to see any topics here about peoples card getting rejected on the simple fact that they were overclocked, atleast since the policies of both companies allowing overclocking have gone into effect. People who send back hardware that they have voltmodded and kill the cards because of it should be shot, but I haven't seen any of that either, atleast not them bitching when their RMA gets rejected.

Dignatec, I speak for alot of people here, we don't want you legal opinion on said matters, you have clearly shown your bias in previous statements and therefore your true intention of said statements, to cast EVGA in a light which they aren't deserving. We have seen it before, people are smarter than that, they can read the warranty information and disseminate it themselves thank you very much.
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QFT +
dignatec, you've still failed to acknowledge the fact that both eVGA and XFX have basically identical conditions for invalidating warranties; you wanted me to prove to you that damaging your hardware by way of modification would void the returns process under XFX, and I did so. It doesn't matter weather or not I have a background in law, I understand what is contained in the agreements. Perhaps I am more savvy on these topics with no real background in the field, but I feel like the warranties are in perfectly clear English and I don't need to go to law school to know what terms mean. These issues have been discussed ad nauseum and all sides have been represented on this forum.

While XFX does have the double lifetime warranty; leading to better theoretical resale value, eVGA uses a shorter-term, step-up program allowing for trade-ins at your old basis instead of being able to transfer warranties, avoiding the resale scene altogether. So for people who constantly have the itch to upgrade, eVGA yields a better path, many times and for people like me who upgrade once XFX is perfectly fine, plus I can sell it later on to some sap who thinks he's getting a cutting edge card with incentives.
 
I won't claim to be a lawyer, but as a student in Economics (Liberal Studies) and having almost finished my accounting major, I have a reasonable grasp of contract law. You might claim there will be some discrepancies due to precedent seeing as I live in Australia, but we both operate under a common law system with similar case law.

Rather than belittling people about their possible lack of knowledge, you being so well versed should know that the terms of a contract are split into expressed and implied terms. So, to resolve this quite simply, seeing as it is a widely accepted view by consumers that EVGA allows for over clocking and more importantly an EVGA Rep has substantiated the claims - it clearly falls under an implied term. Essentially, it doesn't matter whether or not it was stipulated as an expressed term of the contract like with XFX because it would be an implied term.

I would've posted earlier but just got my account validated.

*I might as well make a comment in relation to what you said about not accepting the words of a Rep on these boards and simply referring to the contract in black and white. Well, in Tort Law there is something called vicarious liability, admittedly it's been a while since I've looked at it. However, unless I'm mistaken; if the words of the Rep were false it would fall under misleading/deceptive conduct (which would be even worse since it would breach part of the TPA here) and would also allow for a claim for vicarious liability - you should've been well aware of this too.

**Do correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't been up all that long but I think I've got the legal implications correct from memory.
 
dignatec said:
People,

If someone here is actually over 30 and has a background in LAW please feel free to share your opinion on the legal wording or just back off. I have taken courses in WRITING legal contracts as I was certified to do this. Now, based on what is written, the warranty could be denied if some damage was done as a result of an OC. Simple question, why not say "Any physical damage that results due to overclocking the GPU is covered, while any physical damage due to dropping/water etc..." is NOT covered. Ask yourself that question.

If I was selling you a house, I would specifically write what is included and what isn't in the transaction. I'm sure most people flaming me are either a) Very young (under 25) b) Have no background in law c) don't want to hear their warranty isn't bulletproof.

Now Russian says the wording will be changed...That in itself tells me that the point I raised is BANG ON. Due to the way it is written, my interpretation is correct. If eVGA changes the wording, then great, everyone wins. As for overanalyzing it, Russian, you mean to tell me eVGA doesn't have lawyers writing up their warranty policy? Come on man, every company does, I'm only helping interpret complicated legal language. 99% of people do not have the background to do this (esp young people in the gaming market) and as such this is not noticed. I did, that's it.

As for know way of being able to know what caused damages....Once again, unless you have a background in electrical engineering, don't make statements you can't back up. Seems like everyone here has a phd in engineering and law, and no one else can make statements to the contrary.

As for the free game, the 8800gt from XFX that I ordered comes with Company of Heroes, I can't speak for other models, but hey someone here is going to flame me for this comment as well based on what has been done so far today....

Copy: You actually agree with me using your brain and not insulting me??? Wow, this must be the day of miracles, because just earlier you were insulting me with sarcastic /rude comments. Simply b/c YOU have never burnt out any physical components, does not mean THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED. I did not start a fan war, I gave a legal interpretation of what was written to help people. Juvenile behaviour/lack of maturity by people LIKE YOU and others is what resulted in a flame war.

Enough is enough, all points have been covered and let’s drop this and move on with our lives. Lesson learned, don’t help people who do not want to be helped…
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LOL..... get a clue man... you were gonna get owned from this post in the first place. Yeah I had a little fun because I didn't take it serious. So sue me law boy.
 
Why should we believe you know what you know when anybody can say anything and not have to prove who they are or what they know?
 
dignatec said:
Once again, unless you have a background in electrical engineering, don't make statements you can't back up. Seems like everyone here has a phd in engineering and law, and no one else can make statements to the contrary.
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I speak for the majority when I say we don't need a phd when we have experience. Don't belittle the fine folks here by trying to invalidate their knowledge while you backpeddle on many facts proven otherwise. You don't have a good track record for posting here from what I saw copyright say in another video card thread of yours, and degrading everyone here is not going to help.

Thank you, good day.
 
I don't need a friggin course in contract law or a law degree to read and understand a warranty. Logic would lead one to believe that if Russian has been questioned about the very subject raised here, then we people without the proper "background" have understood what it said.

If you do a search you will find this subject has been and was discussed without the flames this pompus, self important sounding post has raised.

I've bought my fair share of eVGA cards in the past and will continue to do so in the future because I "understand" the warranty as it is written and as it has been explained to me by an employee of the company issuing it, suprisingly enough I didn't need courses in law or a law degree to do that.

I've returned a couple card to eVGA and I have never been questioned as to what I was doing when they failed, just what my issue with it was then processed my RMA and that was that.

They are a company that in my dealings with them have shown me they completely understand what we do their products and and support our hobby by giving us a quality product and standing behind it when we put them to the test and I for one thank them for that.
 
dignatec said:
If someone here is actually over 30 and has a background in LAW please feel free to share your opinion on the legal wording or just back off. I have taken courses in WRITING legal contracts as I was certified to do this. Now, based on what
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wow, i didnt know high schools taught that course?
point being. legal disclaimers can be ambiguous.
your interpretation was wrong, because you did not understand the industry terminology
industry terminology

any modification = PHYSICAL alteration that has to be done though actual physically interacting with the product.
OCing is a software alteration. If something breaks during an OC, then it is not a PHYSICAL alteration per say.

youre misunderstanding of industry terminology op lead to this.
you have to at the very least admit that most industries have a set of rules and terminologies that anyone in the same industry will understand to mean a certain thing, regardless of what someone outside of the industry thinks it means.


All RussianHaxor said was that there are people (like YOU) who will misinterpret the policy based on their (in) experience and world view.

The law is flexible, maybe you need to take a class in legal understanding, instead of writing.

ps. oh its fun to flame sometimes, just for the sake of flaming.
 
I also know about legal contracts and writing so I was simply interpreting the warranty statements on both websites.
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based off how wrong you have been on your three main points, I wouldn't trust you to read little red riding hood to preschoolers.

I gave a legal interpretation of what was written to help people. Juvenile behaviour/lack of maturity by people LIKE YOU and others is what resulted in a flame war.

Enough is enough, all points have been covered and let’s drop this and move on with our lives. Lesson learned, don’t help people who do not want to be helped…
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lesson learned here is don't go around giving legal interpertations when they are not asked for. You flamed people for not reading the websites or the fine print, when in all actuality it appears you were the one who failed to read it. How you could mistake XFX for having a step up program is beyond me. No where in the world in their fine print, bold print, in any language does it say they have a step up program.

It clearly states on both warranties that neither warranty cover physical damage which both reps clearly stated an pointed out. Many of us have used their warranties and have participated in helping others out go to the people who can help them when their are extenuating circumstances so while we may not be the johnny cochran of video card warranties, we are more then familiar with how they work. So yes its true some may have reacted with a little more knee-jerkish reaction then necessary, the same is very much true of your first and second retorts.

ps. oh its fun to flame sometimes, just for the sake of flaming.
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so very true, even more so when they are so obviously wrong.
 
I love how the thread is, ironically, an epicenter of all kinds of misunderstanding :p

Thanks for clearing it up, RussianHAXOR - was unsure about EVGA's stance on OCing. Guess I made the right choice :D
 
Both the EVGA and XFX lifetime warranties sound great. Especially when you compare them to BFG's lifetime warranty:

http://www.bfgtech.com/warranty.aspx

BFG LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
This warranty is only valid if the product:
* Was not damaged while being installed.
* Was not damaged by software or hardware from a company or individual other than BFG Technologies or by motherboard incompatibility.
* Was operated in accordance with BFG Technologies specifications, instructions and any technical support directions.
* Was not modified or damaged by overclocking, tampering, user error, accident, disaster, abuse, misuse, power supply, power application, alteration, repair, modification, a fix or replacement by someone other than BFG Technologies.
* Third party products, such as motherboards and other system components using or interacting with this Product are not covered by this warranty.

If I bought a BFG card I wouldn't overclock it.
 
Both are great companies, both seem to honor their warranties, and one of them, whichever is cheapest, will get my business in the near future.

Thanks OP for your intentions on clarifying a subject, despite not being sure on the implied means of the warranties, both representatives have already cleared that up. You can OC both, and the main difference do you prefer double lifetime warranty, or step up program?
.
/thread done :)
 
I am somewhat glad that the OP did bring up the subject (though not necessarily how) because I was somewhat worried about the wording of the EVGA warranty w/ respect to "physical damage" during installation of an aftermarket cooling solution. It's good to know for sure what they do and don't cover.
 
Wait a sec here... OP you’re a Certified Paralegal? A Lawyer? Else wise a couple of courses in Legal writing hardly qualify as a background in Law.

There is what’s in writing and then where reality is,

A good lawyer is ALWAYS going to write policy that is bulletproof for their client, never the customer. This is regardless of what the client’s actual policies are. This way if an issue ever arises the client has no question as to grounds to deny claims etc.

Evga/XfX both provide outstanding service. They don’t do this because their support contract says they have to, they do it in order to further their good name and gain a grass roots customer following. In general because it’s good for business. So what if they have to replace a board or two... guess what these customers are going to come back and buy the next board. What’s also going to happen is these customers are going to tell a friend etc.

You could probably send them back a part caked in dog urine provided that you appropriately followed the RMA instructions and returned the cooling hardware to stock format. Now send them a second card in that condition and they will probably start adhering to that legal wording a bit more closely.

Even if the support agreement stated "We will replace all defective hardware regardless of the nature or cause of defect" they can still deny claim. The reality is what are you going to do about it? Write a letter of demand? Fly 100s of miles out to file small claims on a $300 component? And then provided you spent the upfront and win the case guess what… they can still refuse payment. Then you are back to court, and frankly at this point the Judge would probably order the bailiff to pistol whip you for wasting his time.

The point? There is no point really other than there is bad customer service and good customer service. I’ve found that these two things have nothing to do with how the support contract is worded. Never Ever. Time to go back under my bridge /lurk
 
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