Yes. And they will play better / more stable etc
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Xbox series X
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Yes. And they will play better / more stable etc
Armenius
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Around Thanksgiving this year. If you're outside the USA that is some time in November. Microsoft will have an event in April where we get all the details, supposedly including a hard release date and price.
Round-up of a few news links:
VideoCardZ - https://videocardz.com/newz/microsoft-confirms-xbox-series-x-feature-12-teraflops-amd-rdna-2-gpu
PC Gamer - https://www.pcgamer.com/on-paper-th...es-x-is-faster-than-a-geforce-rtx-2080-super/
Here's a rundown of graphics cards from both AMD and Nvidia in terms of TFLOPs:
Euro Gamer - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-xbox-series-x-power-play-analysis
Microsoft's messaging is so confident that there's almost the sense that the firm is throwing down the gauntlet to its main rival, Sony. I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations. I can only imagine that Microsoft is comfortable enough with a comparison with the last-gen enhanced machine that possibly under-sells its new machine, while at the same time challenging Sony to follow suit with its latest offering.
VideoCardZ - https://videocardz.com/newz/microsoft-confirms-xbox-series-x-feature-12-teraflops-amd-rdna-2-gpu
| NVIDIA TU102 | AMD Vega 20 | AMD Navi 10 | XBOX Series X GPU | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2020 High-End GPUs | ||||
| Fabrication Node | 12nm Turing | 7nm GCN4 | 7nm RDNA1 | 7nm RDNA2 |
| Unified Cores | 4608 | 3840 | 2560 | ? |
| Device | TITAN RTX | Radeon VII | Radeon RX 5700 XT | XBOX Series X |
| HDMI Support | 2.0b | 2.0b | 2.0b | 2.1 |
| FP32 Max Compute | 16.3 TFLOPs | 13.4 TFLOPs | 9.0 TFLOPs | 12.0 TFLOPs |
PC Gamer - https://www.pcgamer.com/on-paper-th...es-x-is-faster-than-a-geforce-rtx-2080-super/
Here's a rundown of graphics cards from both AMD and Nvidia in terms of TFLOPs:
- GeForce RTX 2080 Ti (Turing TU102)—13.45 TFLOPs
- Radeon RX Vega 64 (Vega 10)—12.66 TFLOPs
- Xbox Series X (Navi - RDNA 2)—12 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2080 Super (Turing TU104)—11.15 TFLOPs
- Radeon RX Vega 56 (Vega 10)—10.54 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2080 (Turing TU104)—10.07 TFLOPs
- Radeon RX 5700 XT (Navi 10)—9.754 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2070 Super (Turing TU104)—9.062 TFLOPs
- Radeon RX 5700 (Navi 10 XL)—7.949 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2070 (Turing TU106)—7.465 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2060 Super (Turing TU106)—7.181 TFLOPs
- GeForce RTX 2060 (Turing TU106)—6.451 TFLOPs
Euro Gamer - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-xbox-series-x-power-play-analysis
Microsoft's messaging is so confident that there's almost the sense that the firm is throwing down the gauntlet to its main rival, Sony. I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations. I can only imagine that Microsoft is comfortable enough with a comparison with the last-gen enhanced machine that possibly under-sells its new machine, while at the same time challenging Sony to follow suit with its latest offering.
Armenius
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That list just illustrates how a FLOP/s number alone means nothing. AMD hardware historically has high FP32 LINPACK performance but it rarely translates to actual real time rendering performance.
SeymourGore
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Yar, hard to take those numbers seriously when Vega64 has a decent TFLOPs lead over a 2080 Super.
My theory is that MS is pushing the TFLOPs number because they heard through their contacts that Sony's PS5 TFLOP is lower. So, they're making their messaging target an area where they'll appear to have a performance lead over Sony (though in reality the systems will have more or less parity to each other).
But that theory's pulled out of my butt, so who knows how accurate it will be.
What is interesting is the 5700XT is closer to what the Xbox will have in it yet it out performs the Vega 64 in a lot of cases. So taking that or a better architecture (RDNA2) and giving it more raw compute power and then putting it into a $500 console... Sounds pretty impressive to me.
Awesome. Thank you
Armenius
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Digital Foundry revealed the complete specifications of the Series X and gave details of new features like HDR globally implemented through a machine learning algorithm even on original Xbox game and Dynamic Input Latency.
https://hardforum.com/threads/digit...ck-compat-quick-resume-demo-showcase.1994146/
https://hardforum.com/threads/digit...ck-compat-quick-resume-demo-showcase.1994146/
dvsman
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Did you guys see this?
What do you think will be the launch price of the Xbox series X ?
Will the launch be delayed to next year ??
What will be the cost of the additional 1 TB NVMe Compact Flash Express card which is expected to run at same speed as internal NVMe 1 TB card ???
https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...storage-with-pci-express-4-0-expansion-cards/
The internal 1 TB NVMe SSD, offers 2.4 GB/s of raw and 4.8 GB/s of compressed I/O throughput. Per Eurogamer:
Will the launch be delayed to next year ??
What will be the cost of the additional 1 TB NVMe Compact Flash Express card which is expected to run at same speed as internal NVMe 1 TB card ???
https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/0...storage-with-pci-express-4-0-expansion-cards/
The internal 1 TB NVMe SSD, offers 2.4 GB/s of raw and 4.8 GB/s of compressed I/O throughput. Per Eurogamer:
Armenius
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I'm standing by my $600 prediction for price, and I don't think it will be delayed.
Viper87227
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My money is on $499 as well. Many of us still remember the $599 PS3 and how insane that sounded. Somehow, $499 just seems a lot more reasonable. I expect Microsoft to be willing to take on a larger loss than Sony in order to not be the underdog this generation.
Both Sony and Microsoft are adamant they are launching this year. While I do believe that's the intention for both, I also wouldn't be surprised if that changed. This far out, neither company is going to talk about that. They don't want to appear weak or uncertain, and it's far enough off that the entire world is hoping for coronavirus to be over by then. The reality is this is all still very new, and growing... nobody really knows where the world is going to be a month from now, or six months from now. Will we still be battling this? Will people still be out of work? Will we be facing a global economic recession? All pretty important things that will impact if these consoles can truly hit their release target. Until the entire world settles down, nothing is 100% certain.
I'm sure both companies intended to talk launch details around E3. Three months from now, they should be able to say with a little more confidence if they are on track to launch this year.
Both Sony and Microsoft are adamant they are launching this year. While I do believe that's the intention for both, I also wouldn't be surprised if that changed. This far out, neither company is going to talk about that. They don't want to appear weak or uncertain, and it's far enough off that the entire world is hoping for coronavirus to be over by then. The reality is this is all still very new, and growing... nobody really knows where the world is going to be a month from now, or six months from now. Will we still be battling this? Will people still be out of work? Will we be facing a global economic recession? All pretty important things that will impact if these consoles can truly hit their release target. Until the entire world settles down, nothing is 100% certain.
I'm sure both companies intended to talk launch details around E3. Three months from now, they should be able to say with a little more confidence if they are on track to launch this year.
Armenius
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WTF? Microsoft dropped the optical output despite earlier prototypes having it.
https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-wont-have-spdif-optical-audio-or-ir-blaster
https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-wont-have-spdif-optical-audio-or-ir-blaster
Is MS still going to try to do the all-in-one DVR/Console or was that a bust?
Armenius
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Assuming it's a bust. They also dropped the HDMI input.
More on Xbox Series X Velocity architecture:
custom SSD storage
hardware decompression block
DirectStorage, building upon DirectX
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS)
https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-velocity-architecture
https://www.pcworld.com/article/353...ectstorage-velocity-architecture-windows.html
stated Andrew Goossen, Technical Fellow on Xbox Series X at Microsoft via Xbox Wire.
DirectStorage allows developers to utilize SSD storage as a virtual RAM buffer for games. The SSD is used as a cache, allowing the 16GB RAM pool to offload--and even pull--extra power from the customized PCIe 4.0 SSD.
Armed with caching, compression systems, and a synergized API optimized to work alongside the SoC itself, the Xbox Velocity Architecture allows for massively improved asset fetching and processing, leading to ultra-fast loading times, more detailed game environments, and more.
Using DirectStorage, the SSD can now deliver assets, textures, and data to the Zen 2 CPU much more quickly, while also communicating with the system's 6GB of data-allocated GDDR6 memory pool (the Xbox Series X has 16GB GDDR6, but only 6GB of it is available to the SSD).
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7127...revolutionary-changes-gaming-forever/amp.html
I keep hearing how the SSD on the PS5 is a lot faster. That is true but I think these systems are so fast that there is going to be not noticeable difference between the two. I mean, really. Are we going to notice or care about 1 second difference? I'd like to get both consoles if I can afford it. But for now I am getting the Xbox. Good time to be alive!
T4rd
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I'm def not getting hung up on console specs, as the end result is going to still be that the cross-platform games are going to play almost identically between the consoles. But I'll be getting the PS5 regardless for its exclusives and sticking to my PC for all Xbox games and will stream them locally to my living room via my Shield TV or Steam Link as I've been doing. The only thing I really like about the X Boxes is their BC for older original Xbox and 360 titles and that's basically all I use my current Xbone X for.
Well they claim no loading times at all. It is not just a super fast SSD. Even with the fastest SSD on PC there can be still a lot of loading.
Armenius
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At these speeds it's going to be on the order of milliseconds, not seconds. I'm sure games on both systems will be made with the ability to not have any load times at all after the initial caching period. So while it is impressive that Sony is able to work with Seagate to get the full PCI-E 4.0 bandwidth in 4 lanes it's not really going to make that much of a difference compared to the Xbox.
Denpepe
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Hopefully install sizes will go down as they will no longer need to put as much duplicate files like they do now to reduce load times.
I don't mind some loading times, but not like now where for example in state of decay 2 where you can freeze the game for a couple seconds due to moving around too fast on the map.
I don't mind some loading times, but not like now where for example in state of decay 2 where you can freeze the game for a couple seconds due to moving around too fast on the map.
whateverer
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The duplicate file trick was only necessary for the PS3, as it used 2x Bluray drive (slower rotation speed meant slower access times). Now that data is all installed on the hard drve, they most-likely don't make any copies.
At most, the hard drive after install is defragmented (while idle,) but you can say this of any modern OS.
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Wrong on it being only necessary for the ps3, data amplification is necessary for literally every game designed for hdd, talk to any game developer if you want confirmation, heck that's even an example for Spiderman on ps4, the ubiquitous mailbox had to be copied a hundred times or so through the hdd, and this is the same for similar objects in any game ever. Up until next gen console designed games for both consoles.
T4rd
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Yeah, Mark Cerny hit on that specifically during his recent GDC speech and cited that exact instance in Spiderman 4 needing to put a ton of duplicate assets on the HDDto make up for its slow file seeking speeds.
Domingo
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No big deal in the world of gaming, but I actually liked having the HDMI-In for my cable box. It makes all of my TV content use the same color space as my Xbox...which was well calibrated. It also provides faux-Atmos (or 7.1) for all of that content as well. It's capped at 1080p, but then again, luckily so is 99% of Comcast's content.
Looking at my Xbox One game library, the only game I own for it that I don't also have on the PC is RDR2. If I ever see that game for cheap on PC, I think I'm just going to sell my Xbox One X while I can still get some decent money for it.
Looking at my Xbox One game library, the only game I own for it that I don't also have on the PC is RDR2. If I ever see that game for cheap on PC, I think I'm just going to sell my Xbox One X while I can still get some decent money for it.
Domingo
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...and it's gone. Sold it to one of my friends for $175. He was looking for one and I wanted to swap over to the cheaper PC-only version of GamePass. Everyone wins. I ended up just setting up a separate color-space on my TV for that content. The only loss will be the fake surround sound that used all 7 speakers, but it's not like that added much.
When the original PS4 and Xbox One consoles came out, their lack of support for true 4K resolutions and high dynamic range made them arguably out of date before they’d even gone on sale
With every new thing we’re hearing about the PS5 and Xbox Series X, however, it’s looking like this time it’s the TVs that will struggle to keep up with everything the latest consoles can do, rather than the other way round.
~John Archer in Forbes on HDR enhancement feature of Xbox Series X
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...look-brand-new/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Viper87227
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This is the first thing I've heard about the Series X that is interesting to me. I'm a big fan of HDR. I'm not necessarily sure it would sell me a system, but i'm definitely interesting in seeing how this works, and what affect it has on the industry. HDR support on PC already trails behind the consoles. I kinda wonder if this will make that even worse. If devs can have "free" HDR on consoles, that gives even less motivation for them to put the effort into implementing it manually. I also wonder though if this auto-HDR can match the appearance of developer implemented HDR. If this tech eliminates the need for developer implemented HDR, will we see this technology come to PC? Either by way of Microsoft rolling it into Windows 10 or AMD and Nvidia rolling it into their graphics hardware?
Domingo
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Seems like a neat feature for sure. Not neat enough to make me buy one (especially with all exclusives on the PC), but I still think it's really cool. I'd also be interested in similar technology on the PC.
Armenius
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First look at gameplay on Xbox Series X during a live stream event next Thursday, May 7 at 8:00 AM PDT (UTC -7).
https://twitter.com/xbox/status/1255889762864361472?s=21
https://twitter.com/xbox/status/1255889762864361472?s=21
That's mostly because the TV industry thus far has avoided HDMI 2.1 (aside from LG) since there's no signal source for it yet (*glares at NVIDIA*). LGs top-end TVs from last year already support most of the HDMI 2.1 spec (hell, they got NVIDIA to backport HDMI VRR into HDMI 2.0) and most of their TVs this year will support HDMI 2.1 as well. I think a few of Samsungs models also support HDMI 2.1 on at least one port (how else are they supporting 8k?).
All I'm really hearing here is Sony/MSFT announcing they'll be supporting HDMI 2.1, then repeating the HDMI 2.1 feature list to get people all excited.
Domingo
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Samsung made a big announcement about their HDMI 2.1 TV's earlier this week.
I remember when the PS3 touted 1080p as a feature. News articles couldn't say "...but nobody even HAS a 1080p TV yet!" enough.
A few years later and everyone and their mom had one. Granted, that was the first and only move to "HD" for a lot of people, but it didn't take long to catch on.
HDMI 2.1 could be like that depending on how the manufacturers choose to push them and if the new consoles catch on.
The only real knock on the concept is that (like HDR), you kinda have to see it in person to fully understand it.
Something that could really help is a catchy term (like "HD" or "4K") to describe higher refresh rates.
I remember when the PS3 touted 1080p as a feature. News articles couldn't say "...but nobody even HAS a 1080p TV yet!" enough.
A few years later and everyone and their mom had one. Granted, that was the first and only move to "HD" for a lot of people, but it didn't take long to catch on.
HDMI 2.1 could be like that depending on how the manufacturers choose to push them and if the new consoles catch on.
The only real knock on the concept is that (like HDR), you kinda have to see it in person to fully understand it.
Something that could really help is a catchy term (like "HD" or "4K") to describe higher refresh rates.
I was looking at TVs a bit yesterday. Compared to what I paid for 65”4K in 2016, “upgrading” to similar with VRR HDMI 2.1 is almost half the price. I could easily see 2.1 becoming a more common thing in households a year from now.
I just wish manufacturers would fucking pick an HDR standard and stick with it. It seems like you can get HDR10+ or Dolby Vision but not quite Both.
Domingo
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Same. I glanced at some of the new Samsung TV's after their announcement and they're much cheaper than they were a few years ago. They seem dead set on HDR10+ while it seems like Dolby is what they others are going with. As someone who is mostly using for gaming, I've only seem Dolby pop up a couple times. Optical disk movies seem to favor it, though.