Xbox Scarlett Will Use Zen 2 and AMD Next-Gen GPU Technology, Targeting 4K/60 FPS

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Exaggerating for effect wins you nothing. Most folks that are buying a new TV are buying 4K TV's and therefore, it is common sense and logic that 4K will be targeted by the next generation consoles.
     
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  2. WBurchnall

    WBurchnall 2[H]4U

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    No, not at all. Most 4k tvs will upscale 1080p signals and even 2k signals well. Furthermore 4k at 30 fps is still 4k. The guy you quoted said it's unlikely 4k 60fps will occur without reduced detail.

    Right now, reliable 4k 60 fps in the latest title requires basically a 2080ti at 1000usd. The idea the consoles will include 1000 worth of video card power, plus power supply, plus ram, plus motherboard, plus cpu for 399 is pretty...unrealistic or extremely optimistic at best.

    A 1070 level gpu power seems possible but that's still 4k 30fps.

    If there's not enough theoretical power to push enough pixels or if you prefer polygons because you don't have enough compute units or rasterizers etc, no amount of optimization will allow you to overcome it. You can't code software to be more efficient at solving a problem than the most efficient algorithm.
     
  3. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good news for console lovers. Your 4k/60fps box will be out just in time for 8k t.v.'s to start hitting the shelves.

    I agree with others, they are moving quicker but much like many parts in the PC industry the gens are providing less leaps and more small steps. In the NES>PS1>PS2&N64>PS3 era's we saw some pretty major jumps with each gen. These days the hype states large numbers for performance increases but it sure looks like it's approaching single digit or at least teens>twenties in real world use. I also agree that 'optimization' is the name of the game for bragging rights. It doesn't matter the system, if a game is optimized for it then the game looks and plays great. I very nearly got a PS4pro just because of it's exclusives and how amazingly they made use of it's tricks.

    A point that I've made many times in the last 4-5 years is that display tech is moving much faster than the hardware that can drive it. From movies/t.v. to games we're all in the same boat here.
     
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  4. silk186

    silk186 [H]ard|Gawd

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    2013-2019 is a very good time span. Any longer and it will be holding back PC gaming, and gaming in general.
    It is still a lot cheaper and easier to buy a console and connect it to your TV than going the PC route.
    I am PC only, but some friends don't have/want to invest the time in a PC.
    They want to get home and play an hour before bed without dealing with dealing with hardware or software, windows, drivers, ect.
    Hopefully this will drive adoption of k monitors and more powerful GPUs.
     
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  5. 455olds

    455olds Gawd

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    It would be nice if the xbox one is capable of running their new streaming service.
     
  6. OblivionLord

    OblivionLord Limp Gawd

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    There are people fine with the nintendo switch being 720p portable mode even though that will be their standard for the next 6 years or so.
     
  7. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is something A LOT of you guys forget....

    I have several friends, swimming in cash, but they choose consoles for these exact reasons.

    EDIT: I was able to turn one of them eventually, but only after slipping some Sid Meier "crack" onto his office desktop. (that shouldn't count though.. like that bastard had a chance heh)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  8. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

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    4k60 is totally possible, with a net improvement in visual fidelity over modern console titles. Will it match modern pc titles running ultra mega settings on a 2080Ti? No. But it will still look damn good.
     
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  9. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    Microsoft killed any sort of interest I had in their consoles as soon as they started making their [few] exclusives playable on PC.

    If you’re a PC gamer there is little to no reason to buy an Xbox.
     
  10. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This generation will be 6 years which is about the norm for a console generation.
     
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  11. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    With a half revision in the middle
     
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  12. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yea there is, the media and gamer backlash will be just as bad as xbone. How can they not learn their lesson.
     
  13. Brian_B

    Brian_B 2[H]4U

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    I play more on my console lately than my PC. Sure, the PC is “better”, but the console is good enough and just works.

    Nothing better than plopping on the couch with a beer and wireless controller. Sure, I’ve tried to do that with a PC, but always have to fall back to KB/M somewhere and have to put down my beer.
     
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  14. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    LOL! Once is not the same as the other, do some research on history for once. :) The thing I mentioned is an option, the thing you mentioned started out as no option, it just was. It is folks such as yourself which is why we cannot have good things and are stuck in the past. Now get off my lawn! :D
     
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  15. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Really? I have to say that I do not agree at all. That would be like saying if you are a gamer, there is little to no reason to buy more than one PC.
     
  16. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    I do not see why I, as a gamer, would need more than one gaming PC...? What is the advantage of having more than one gaming PC?
     
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  17. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I would say more like there is no disadvantage to it at all.
     
  18. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    So if there is no advantage nor disadvantage then how do you disagree with my statement that there is little to no reason to buy an Xbox if you have a gaming PC?

    Wouldn't I be better off spending my money on a PS4 or Nintendo Switch that would instead expand my access to various games?
     
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  19. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    And the Xbox two will still have no games to use all that power.
     
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  20. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    Nah, that's one area MS did learn with how they're buying studios left and right.
     
  21. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Except that any Microsoft produced game will be a play anywhere title.
     
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  22. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    MS buying up studios left and right isn't something new. Those studios end up not meeting MS expectations and shut them down. Even beloved studios like Rare went to shit after MS brought them. The talent normally leaves after MS buys them.
     
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  23. next-Jin

    next-Jin [H]ardness Supreme

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    God it seems like just yesterday I was debating PS4/XBO before they released. I was right of course, PS4 decimated across the board.

    This time it will be far more interesting hardware wise. MS is not about to make the same horrible design desicions this time and will likely release the superior system.

    They still don’t have the studios to compete with Nintendo and Sony but at least now they are trying.

    Don Mattrick almost killed the brand back in 2013.

    I’d like to see a Zen2/3 type APU with Vega64 level performance and 16GB Of unified memory with a super fast cache to hold the OS and non gaming apps along with PCIe M.2 HDs. Get rid of spindle all together. If they want to cheap out use SATA III SSDs in M.2 form factor.
     
  24. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Microsoft has been doing that for years though with little luck. Look at how they've treated Rare.

    I'm one of those people, I love what my Switch is capable of. I don't expect more of it, and the on the go console feel is frankly nice. Last year this time I was playing Super Mario Odyssey on an airplane. Game looked and played great.
    I'm halfway one of those people. Some days it's just plain fucking nice to kick back on the couch or lazyboy with a gamepad and fire up the PS4 for some time waster game where I can shut my brain off. But at the same time I also have a Ryzen 2700 and Vega 64. I'll just play games how I want I suppose.
     
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  25. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yep, I have a OG Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One X, 1700 at 3.8Ghz with a RX 570, 2600 at 4.1 Ghz with my Vega 56 and a 2200G in a Asrock mITX B350 mainboard. I see no reason to bother with the switch, since I really do not do mobile gaming but, I can see it is really nice and all, nonetheless. I do not want any PS anything because I did try a PS2 mini at one point, years ago, and the batteries leaked in the wireless controller I had, which shows you how much I even bothered with it.

    My only mobile device is my Essential phone and nothing else, not even a laptop. (Work provides what I need in that department.) Doing 27 inch 1080p 144hz curved gaming at this time. :)

    I do think they will do quite well with the new studios under new management from the old style MS years ago. However, they will most likely be play anywhere titles, nonetheless. The joke is, MS makes exclusives for the Xbox, people complain online that they are killing PC Gaming. So they make titles that are Play Anywhere and people complain online that they made a mistake doing that since they no longer have a need for an Xbox. Sure is easy to be critical, especially for those on the internet. :D
     
  26. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    Also don't think that the hardware will be much different then the PS5. Remeber the base PS4 was cheaper and more powerful the the base Xbox.
     
  27. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    It was only more expensive because they forced you to buy the console with the Kinect accessory that most people didn't want. When they finally decided to let people buy the console without it then the Xbox One sold for the same price as the PS4. Either way, the PS4 still had the superior hardware.
     
  28. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    PS4 and the PS alike next Xbox will be beastly... and likely be the 3D hardware target for developers till darn near 2030.

    The Zen chiplette design is going to address some long time Console issues.
    - It won't feature a squeezed in GPU as per the old APU GPU+CPU on one die. Instead it will feature full on Zen CPU and Navi chips on the same package but not the same die.
    - The memory controller will not be on the CPU or GPU... meaning they don't have to share that bit of hardware. I would expect the controller chip will feature both a DDR and GDDR controller.
    - Instead of a shared pool of RAM. they will likely both feature System and GPU ram... very possibly with the GPU memory being attached via a m.2 / pcie ram daughter board connected via PCIE 4 or 5. (being they are custom and PCIE5 is already finalized I wouldn't be shocked if they both use 5)
    - Future "pro" upgrades also get a lot easier... as it doesn't seem developers will have to do anything much different on their end if Sony or MS release a version with an upgraded chiplet that features a second navi... or more/faster zen cores. The on die controller chips should be able to take care of feeding 2 GPUs... instead of the system needing to treat them as crossfired dual cards, the software should still just see one "gpu" device.

    We'll see how it shakes out. But the more leaked info I read about AMDs upcoming zen2 chiplet stuffs... I think we may finally be at a point where building a Mid range PC isn't going to be a great value proposition vs one of the main consoles. At least for a few years it seems High END PCs will be faster... but it may be a few years before mid range PC builds compete with the latest consoles.

    Also it makes me very interested to read more about the chiplet controller chips when they make things official. It would seem that would be the new potential performance bottleneck.
     
  29. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Isn't exactly new. The PS2 has two versions, the PS3/Xbox 360 had three. The 360 also had smaller silent revisions that bumped up CPU and/or GPU clock. Even the PS1 had a major revision, received controllers with thumbsticks partway through its cycle and whatnot.
     
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  30. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    no it's nothing like anything before.

    it's literally new hardware not a refresh.
     
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  31. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Not really the marketing might have spun it that way.. but all they are are clock bumps, and a second GPU running in a crossfire type setup. They are hardly brand new hardware. Just bumps. Not much different then the stuff Flogger is talking about... the marketing was bumped up no doubt there.
     
  32. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    To bad that not entirely accurate, but only in Microsoft's favor. When MS decided to sell the Xbox with Kinect for $399 right along side the non Kinect Version for $399, people would but the non Kinect version anyways. It was not the cost so much as a perception that people had, whether true or not, they MS is going to spy on you! LOL! Oh well, this is the reason we cannot have good things.

    Edit: It is in their favor because MS made more money with the non Kinect version. Amazing thing is, side by side, you could not really see a real difference between the PS4 and Xbox one, unless you took stills and blew them up.
     
  33. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is not entirely accurate either. There was no crossfire anything going on, the GPU was an upgrade in the One X straight up although the CPU was the same, only faster. More ram, faster drive, they used GDDR5 ram in the One X instead of DDR3, probably got rid of the cross ram thingy or whatever it was called and made things generally better.
     
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  34. exlink

    exlink [H]ardness Supreme

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    IIRC when MS sold the Kinect version for $399 (to clear stock) it was at the same time that the non-Kinect version was also often being sold bundled with a game or two. I believe one of the bundles was the Master Chief Collection which was a popular and anticipated game despite the broken matchmaking.
     
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  35. TripleAgent77

    TripleAgent77 Limp Gawd

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    I get mine free with Bing search points. 5 minutes a day at work, and I get XBL free.
     
  36. shpankey

    shpankey Limp Gawd

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    on point sir!!!
     
  37. next-Jin

    next-Jin [H]ardness Supreme

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    It was obvious back then and it’s still obvious in 2018. This wasn’t 900p vs 868p this was 1080p vs 900 or lower.

    There was some outliers obviously but it was definitely there.
     
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  38. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It you have some stills and blow them up, sure.
     
  39. CombatChrisNC

    CombatChrisNC [H]ard|Gawd

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    At least if they stick with AMD and x86, backwards compatibility shouldn't be too much of a problem.
     
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  40. next-Jin

    next-Jin [H]ardness Supreme

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    I’m not going to get into some sort of console war but no, not at all. It wasn’t just lower resolution (at the extreme differences), it was performance as well.

    You simply can’t objectively state that it wasn’t observed and taken into consideration by customers, especially with the price difference.
     
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