Xbox Chief Admits Microsoft Has "A Ton of Work to Do on Windows" for PC Gamers

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    This, so much this. Desktop Windows supports with ease so many cool things on the desktop especially when it comes to games.
     
  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Welp, I read the article and all I have to say is, I will believe it when I see it, if he actually gets his way. (Unless Nadella interferes.) After all, it is not like Nadella promising stuff for Windows 10 Mobile hardware and then just shutting the door in our face.
     
  3. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Hopefully it will stay that way, and if it truly does and things are different (better) in the future, then it will have my full support.
    Hope for the best, prepare for the worst! (y)
     
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  4. DrezKill

    DrezKill Limp Gawd

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    How about you guys get rid of UWP if you're so intent on fixing things. Yeah some games turn out decent on PC, like Gears of War 4, and XPA (Xbox Play Anywhere) is certainly helpful, but overall nothing will be fixed until Microsoft does away with UWP, offers games for sale in places other than the Windows Store (like how their KI can now be found on Steam), and releases games primarily for PC, rather than for XB1 with PC as a sidenote. A good way to start is to release all Microsoft-published games on GOG. Would be nice if all these DX12-only games used Vulkan, but I don't expect Microsoft to toss aside their own API. On consoles I expect to be locked down and restricted, so using the Xbox Marketplace on X360 was not much different than Windows Store on XB1. When I have to use these things on PC though, shit gets to be kinda annoying. The Windows Store app is kinda shit, things usually work out better for me if I just use Xbox.com in a web browser for making purchases. I coulda sworn that we used to be able to use the Xbox app to download/install Microsoft games on Win10, but now it seems that needs to be done through the Windows Store app, which means I can no longer keep it completely blocked in my firewall. Ah well. I think overall the bigger problem is that the Xbox ecosystem is lacking seriously killer exclusives. Phil Spencer can say whatever, but I long ago gave up on Microsoft giving any kinds of shit about PC gaming, and don't ever expect them to. If they did, what would be the point of manufacturing and supporting a console? I figured Microsoft was like Sony and Nintendo now. XPA was a surprise, I must admit. That's kind of a step in the right direction. We'll see how things turn out in the future with that shit. I just wish UWP wasn't a thing (and Win10 exclusivity, but that's a different topic).
     
  5. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    UWP is technically just API extensions to Win32. The traditional games in the Store really have nothing to do with UWP.
     
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  6. Travolta

    Travolta Gawd

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    Well that's not true, there are at least 2 people on this very forum that care.
     
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  7. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I care about the Store to the extent that I care about using the thousands I spend on hardware to the fullest possible extent. I think that for a hardware enthusiasts forum it's odd that some folks want to criticize others for simply wanting to obtain all the functionality they can for the large cash outlay.
     
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  8. SickBeast

    SickBeast Limp Gawd

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    They need to fix the DRM and also the way games are downloaded. Brutally slow downloads on the Windows store. Games also often need to be downloaded multiple times, if they work at all. Steam is just so much better in so many ways. I have to say, however, I am really enjoying my Xbox Game Pass that I paid $30 for six months for. Forza Horizon 4 is awesome and it's the most fun I've had all year in terms of gaming.

    MS is honestly coming across as a bunch of amateurs lately. Once Bill Gates left things were never the same. Not that they were ever great to begin with.
     
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  9. masquap

    masquap Limp Gawd

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    Yeah you lost me.
     
  10. DrezKill

    DrezKill Limp Gawd

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    Yeah I was just using this as an opportunity to complain about locked-down/restricted platforms. I tend to bash UWP every chance I get. I know UWP apps are sold on other storefronts (like the few games that can be found on Steam, such as new Killer Instinct), but to my understanding UWP programs don't really let you fuck around with the files, and impose other restrictions. I know you can disable VSYNC on UWP games now, and UWP now has support for FreeSync and G-Sync, but aside from that I feel overall they are still a lot more restricted than traditional Win32 programs. I guess my biggest issue is that I just don't see the point of UWP. I feel like it's just Microsoft's way of further clamping down on software. I don't like that you can't explicitly state the directories where UWP apps get installed on Win10, you can only specify the drive. You can also take ownership of the WindowsApps folder, but in the end this really doesn't accomplish anything. I think you still cannot access the EXEs of UWP programs or make direct shortcuts to those EXEs. I guess UWP doesn't really cause any harm but overall the platform still rubs me the wrong way. I'd just like to see it gone. I don't know too much about WinRT but did we really need UWP thrown on top? Anyways none of this is on topic, but yeah I get your point.
    Yyeeaahh, on both XB1 and PC. In the 7th-gen days PSN was so much fucking slower than the Xbox Live network, but now it seems like they are both pretty dang slow. Neither will come close to using my full 'Net connection like Steam does.
    Luckily haven't had any issues like this yet, but I only own two UWP games as of this time. I don't think any of my friends have had issues with this either though. I shall have to ask.
    Yeah it kinda seems that way.
     
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  11. Madoc

    Madoc Gawd

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    The following is a pedantic comment:

    C. cannot happen because the Sun lacks the mass to undergo a supernova. Instead, it will go nova, causing it to expand into a red giant which will swallow the Earth, and then shrink down into a brown dwarf.

    This concludes our pedantic comment. We now return you to your regularly scheduled commentary, already in progress.
     
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  12. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Because no one has ever blasted Windows over malware. Let anything fuck around all it wants.
     
  13. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    This is why Windows endures. From a PC gaming perspective Windows, even Windows 10 is essentially 100% PC gaming compatible dating back years with support for even the latest and greatest like VR.

    Linux folks, three years after Windows 10 is like totally capable of supporting VR gaming on two different platforms, "Give it TIME!!!!!!!".

    So totally different standards where a tiny user base will wait indefinitely for any anything and Windows 10, "WHY THE FUCK ISN'T PERFECT LIKE WINDOWS 7" which was always far from perfect.
     
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  14. FlawleZ

    FlawleZ Gawd

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    Which version of Windows are you running?
     
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  15. Biostud

    Biostud n00b

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    In my last attempt to install a free pdf reader from the store it took over 2 hours on two computers as they both threw me a "something is wrong in our end try again later"

    The store is the same top notch quality as a supermarket in the former East Germany.
     
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  16. Cmdrmonkey

    Cmdrmonkey Gawd

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    Who the fuck even cares? We have Steam.
     
  17. atom

    atom Gawd

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    Windows store can just go away now. Nobody is making money on it. It's purpose was to have compatibility between Win64 and MS's Arm devices. That need is now gone. They can do something more like Steam, and give discounts for publishing / licensing fees if it's published on both systems.
     
  18. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    The GFWL games that you bought can still be played today because when Microsoft launched Microsoft Store (then titled Windows Store) Microsoft brought the GFWL servers back online so that people could play their GFWL games again - in a attempt to buy-back some favour from PC gamers. People would be total fools to fall for it, though. Microsoft brought them back because Microsoft wants people's money from the Microsoft Store - not because Microsoft ever felt an obligation to the people that had previously already given their money to Microsoft.

    When Microsoft again decides that its digital distribution service isn't making the kind of money they want out of it, Microsoft will again pull the plug and not lift a finger to help those that previously made purchases through their service.
     
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  19. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    UWP is not preventing malware it prevents the user from modifying the one single application that is UWP. Malware can still dance around on your computer just because your games are uwp.
     
  20. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Steam and the Microsoft store are both partially walled gardens. They sell games that are allowed to be distributed anywhere, but they also sell games you cannot buy elsewhere on the PC due to them wanting to lock you in. Same goes for Origin and Uplay. The difference is in Steam's case, this is only Valve's games, which is probably 0.01% of their store base. In Microsoft's case, if you exclude casual games, we're easily talking double digits, maybe 50%. GOG to the best of my knowledge is the only one that is 100% not a walled garden as I'm not aware of them limiting where games are allowed to be published, including outside their store.
     
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  21. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I’m still sour in Microsoft canceling about $120 of my xbox live points. Yes they warned me it was going to happen by X arbitrary date. Doesn’t make it okay.

    I didn’t have anything I wanted to buy, so why would I spend them by X date. They should have given consumers the chance to cash them back out for USD.

    Why did I have all those unused points?
    I got a $50 gift card of Xbox live points (when I had a Xbox 360) each year from my in laws.

    Because of that douche arbitrary move, I’ve never bought another Xbox after the 360 and don’t plan to. Microsoft made you turn your US dollars into points to buy things on their live service at the time, then they cancelled the points arbitrarily...

    Douche Move,

    Microsoft cannot be trusted in the realm of gaming service. I won’t support them.
     
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  22. cptnjarhead

    cptnjarhead Crossfit Fast Walk Champion Runnerup

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    Been saying this for years.... and windows just keeps getting larger. I will admit.. win 10 has been very stable for me, and performance wise very good.
     
  23. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    The first step they can take is by bringing the Master Chief Collection over to PC.
     
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  24. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    if i cant buy the game from steam, then i dont play that game. all the "exclusive" stuff is pure BS

    there is too many games out there, thankfully.
     
  25. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Windows store is full of problems for more than gamers. Most of it boils down to their inceasingly unified and duymb as a box of rocks authentication system.

    At this point, I have

    three different office 365 for business accounts.
    One microsoft account tied to an OS license (I try to avoid doing this, but I needed a test bed).
    a microsoft live account
    an old MSN/hotmail account.
    A parental account for managing my kid's PC
    And an old account for the MS developer community stuff.

    then you mix all that with windows store and all the credential caching that goes on in windows 10 ecen if you tell it no, and trying to do anything in the windows store is a shitshow.
     
  26. zehoo

    zehoo Limp Gawd

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    This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion but Phil Spencer has been quite successful in turning around the xbox division to be much better than it was under Don Mattrick who had been busy burrowing out holes under the foundation of it. The One X is a decent piece of hardware for people that don't want to use a PC. And the recent studio purchases should create some good games assuming MS don't fall into old habits of trampling on the creativity of the studios they bought.

    Of course he may run into a lot of road blocks trying to fix up the Microsoft Store with the amount of Ego's from different departments heads he's going to run up against. Time will tell I guess.

    And as for Steam, it isn't the one stop shop it once was since multiple major publishers don't list their games there anymore. They are going to need to probably start making more games again (other than CS/DOTA/etc).
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  27. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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  28. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    thank god for Gog
     
  29. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Thank Gog
     
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  30. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I can believe Spencer has been doing a good job building up the Xbox division and making good options for people who don't want to use a PC. In fact, I have COMPLETE faith that Microsoft will do everything they can to boost PC gaming by focusing on the Xbox.
     
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  31. Mode13

    Mode13 Gawd

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    What can MS really do after ~15 years of steam?

    Until they have competitors to steam streaming, community, chat, etc, I'll still just use steam. Worst of all is my giant Steam library, they'll have to find a way to let us unlock games we already own on steam through Windows store if we're really to close steam (yes, I understand how unreasonable that is). I've been trying to buy some games on GOG of late but meh, steam is my go to. I also run Debian very often (yeah yeah, noone uses linux) and steam is there too, now able to play pretty much all of my favorite games.

    Funny thing is GFWL had a nice little in game interface, that could have been easily fixed up a decade ago and stopped steam from becoming the multi billion dollar empire it is today --- oopsies... Who saw that coming </s>?

    Point is, they'll have to fix the windows store NOW and work at it for 10-20 years if they expect a reasonable market share against steam.

    Finally, I do see this same thread every 6-12 months and yet no change at all to windows store (which I've admittedly still spent a total of $0.00 on).

    Edit: of course a good old killer app could convert the masses quickly. Epic launcher suddenly has steam levels of users all thanks to fortnite!
     
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  32. Burticus

    Burticus [H]ardness Supreme

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    MS Store can be fixed by taking it out behind the woodshed and putting a bullet in the noggin. But it won't happen, it makes money (one assumes).

    MS should have bought Steam 15+ years ago. But... "no! we can make it even shittier!"