Xbox can take Sony this time around?

I'll have to say that Microsoft has a vertical climb going one here.

It doesn't matter what hardware MS uses, it still has the most powerful hardware. The fact remains that the Xbox has a poor software library.

When Halo is still the game everyone talks about, and it was a launch title...well, that doesn't say good things. That means no other game has been good enough to talk about.
 
LiquidX said:
Sonys next hardware will be what X-Box is right now with a updated GPU.
Click to expand...

well, this sounds to be WAY more than just what xbox is now to me. highly innovative and the numbers leave me with my jaw on the floor...

and for xbox2 beeing powered by an AMD processor - as far as i heard it's gonna be powered by an IBM proc. at least they say it's a fact in the above link as well as in these rumors. IF these are to be believed xbox2 will have some serious processing power, that's for sure :)

anyways - it's gonna be very very interesting which console will make it next round. there certainly is more pressure on MS if you ask me, cos even they cannot keep bleeding cash with every console they sell. this might annoy even the calmest share-holders in the long run ;)
 
its all a guessing game but my opinion is that they will use the following key hardware, given a 1-2 year availibility for the finished XBOX 2.

CPU. I guess it will be a dual core AMD 64 - reasons -
1) microsoft already know its faster on a clock basis than intel.
2) and the smaller die is alreaddy sampling making it even faster than intel on the same die technology
3) microsoft already have experience writing code for a ' working ' 64bit processor

GPU.(most important item) - the speculation -

1) Microsoft have already coded new DirectX the only manufacturer to use it has been Nvidia, If microsoft want to wait for a year to see how ATI manage to impliment it and get some good drivers they could go with ATI

2) OR Again like AMD Nvidia have produced a new/superior piece of hardware they could choose another Nvidia GPU

3) If any one has working SLI 6800 I am sure Microsoft has some, so it would make sense to use SLI 6800/Variant

4) as both Intel and ATI are playing catchup with the competition at the moment; the only reasonable explanation for the "MS can whip Sony's butt this time around" in my opinion
is the combination of CPU(Dual AMD64) and Dual(6800+). where do and how much do 2xCPU,2xGPU cost for sony and what experience do they have with them.

After all Microsoft have the advantage previously over Sony, in that they can pick the best of the PC hardware ( Another companies developement cost ), and use it in the XBOX.

In the long run microsoft should win this battle as the software developement always moves on best hardware PC; so Sony with there dedicated hardware that programers only see every few years are destined to loose.)

done.

just a guess from a lowly consumer - who i may add does not own an XBOX (but have ps2(GT3/4)) as i have a much faster PC(Mach II GT on A64 (Call me Biased))

Trib.
 
Why?

M$ has failed to study console gaming history or to look at an industry that has been experimenting for years to find out what gamers want
and the best ways to deliver that experience.
Just look at Sega as one example.

Myopic vision on M$ part always leads them down the same path.
Instead of giving the customer what they want they give them what M$ thinks they want.

Custom Hardware: is where it's at.
1) M$ knows nothing about making custom hardware or the real SDK that must be developed with them.
Much less working -with- other developers to make sure games are as easy as possible to create.
Their x86 hardware and Win32 XDK Trojan horse XBOX got them into the game market
using skill sets, software and 20 year old hardware, they were alredy familiar with.
Now they must play the game for real, for the first time, or loose a lot more money doing so.

*Sony on the other has learned from Sega's mistakes and now has 2 generations of solid custom development under it's belt.

Game History: know it or be doomed to repeat it
2) Failure to recognize the last 15 years of game and hardware development / history.
a) The huge controller released with initial Xbox shows just how ignorant M$ is.
Why? Didn’t SEGA already learn this lesson for everyone else before them?
Didn’t the PS2 controller set the standard for several REASONS?
b) Failure to accommodate the Japanese market.
Again it’s all written history.
Why M$ wasn’t prepared for this market only shows just how narrow M$ vision is.

It's in the Game: or is it?
3) Without Keyboard and Mouse control FPS are Dead, DEAD, DEAD on the Xbox console
Another example of just how far M$ has their heads up there @ss when it comes this genre.

RANT
HALO
Let just take one of the hottest game types in the industry
and then break it by removing one of the most important Elements of the game:
The Controls.
(Then we will buy Halo off the PC market and show just how much we can f*ck things up for PC gamers)

I was looking forward to playing some Halo on my Xbox with a 32" TV screen on a "level" playing field Xbox Live only to quickly discover that a GamePAD cannot even come close to the controls a KB&M can.

Its not that it’s just different or takes another skill set.
It just that it’s impossible to perform many moves with a GamePAD vs. a Keyboard and Mouse. PERIOD.

No serious FPS player or any serious FPS player's -money- will ever be spent on Xbox Live without this support.
Do you hear that M$?
 
Quite frankly, I would like to see MS overtake Sony just for the fact that then maybe Sony won't keep putting out garbage and they'll clean up their act.


That said, I own all the current consoles and I play games on all of them. I will likely do the same thing for the next generation... that way I have access to all the games, regardless of the system their on.


Besides, everyone knows that Sega is gonna make a comeback with the Dreamcast 2! :p
 
I agree, But who in there right mind with some cash would buy a console to play FPS games.
Lets face it if you have the cash to buy a Fast PC you cannot bitch about a console ' Copnversion ' as poor running 2 year old hardware.
And that is part of the problem for m$ and why they try to force developers into releasing on XBOX first.
We all know that the PC version will be in a higher res with all the eye candy (now 16x12 with new GPU) and run smoother and faster.

But if you dont have the 2K to build a Fast PC then you have the choice to buy a console.

Trib.
 
im so scared to respond the this i dont even know where to start, so ill just make things breif.

Tribune said:
its all a guessing game but my opinion is that they will use the following key hardware, given a 1-2 year availibility for the finished XBOX 2.
Click to expand...

wtf, its going to be realsed next year.

Tribune said:
CPU. I guess it will be a dual core AMD 64 - reasons -
1) microsoft already know its faster on a clock basis than intel.
2) and the smaller die is alreaddy sampling making it even faster than intel on the same die technology
3) microsoft already have experience writing code for a ' working ' 64bit processor
Click to expand...

the processor comming from ibm, did you read nothing. this is one of the only confirmed things there are.

Tribune said:
GPU.(most important item) - the speculation -

1) Microsoft have already coded new DirectX the only manufacturer to use it has been Nvidia, If microsoft want to wait for a year to see how ATI manage to impliment it and get some good drivers they could go with ATI

2) OR Again like AMD Nvidia have produced a new/superior piece of hardware they could choose another Nvidia GPU

3) If any one has working SLI 6800 I am sure Microsoft has some, so it would make sense to use SLI 6800/Variant

4) as both Intel and ATI are playing catchup with the competition at the moment; the only reasonable explanation for the "MS can whip Sony's butt this time around" in my opinion
is the combination of CPU(Dual AMD64) and Dual(6800+). where do and how much do 2xCPU,2xGPU cost for sony and what experience do they have with them.

After all Microsoft have the advantage previously over Sony, in that they can pick the best of the PC hardware ( Another companies developement cost ), and use it in the XBOX.

Trib.
Click to expand...

Ati currently is leading the GPU with nvidia and ass hair away. intel and ati are catching up, what are they catching up to? intel and amd are doing fine i dont think one is superior to the other as they both have good and bad qualities in their products. and ati and nvidia are both doing good as well. you need to hurt yourself for that last post.
 
Firstly, yes i do read but i have enough inteligence to make my own judgements.

1) wtf, its going to be realsed next year.
No it is going to be shown next year.(at which point all my hardware asumpitions will be common place); Not on SALE.

2) the processor comming from ibm, did you read nothing. this is one of the only confirmed things there are.
dont most of us know that you need a rapid processor to supply even 1 GPU (X800/6800)

3) Ati currently is leading the GPU with nvidia and ass hair away. intel and ati are catching up, what are they catching up to? intel and amd are doing fine i dont think one is superior to the other as they both have good and bad qualities in their products. and ati and nvidia are both doing good as well. you need to hurt yourself for that last post.
You mean to make me believe that Microsoft will release a piece of hardware and use a 2 year old version of DirectX? (or perhaps they will choose a GPU that uses an at most 1 Year + old DirectX); just incase you missed it X800 = 2 year old Tech - 6800 = Not even in Mainstream yet.

Trib.
 
Tribune said:
CPU. I guess it will be a dual core AMD 64 - reasons -
1) microsoft already know its faster on a clock basis than intel.
2) and the smaller die is alreaddy sampling making it even faster than intel on the same die technology
3) microsoft already have experience writing code for a ' working ' 64bit processor
Click to expand...

"IBM has its hands in a number of cookie jars at the moment — they will be supplying the CPU for the next-generation Xbox, which will be in direct competition with the PS3 once they both ship.", as linked above.

and as for the grafics chip:
"ANALYSTS AT THE Dundee Securities Corporation said today that Canadian company ATI was "well positioned" to pick up future Xbox business." does mean nothing is certain, but taking into account MS and nVidia both playing hardball over the royalties for xBox's grafics chip AND their hence logically rumored to be damaged relationship i'd say it's NOT nvidia this time.
 
Man errex, dude you need to take a pill...lol...

***Custom Hardware: is where it's at.
1) M$ knows nothing about making custom hardware or the real SDK that must be developed with them.
Much less working -with- other developers to make sure games are as easy as possible to create.
Their x86 hardware and Win32 XDK Trojan horse XBOX got them into the game market
using skill sets, software and 20 year old hardware, they were alredy familiar with.
Now they must play the game for real, for the first time, or loose a lot more money doing so.

*Sony on the other has learned from Sega's mistakes and now has 2 generations of solid custom development under it's belt.****

Just because this is their first real piece of "custom" hardware doesn't mean they won't make good of it..They DO have the funds to do any research necessary, and I am sure they have contacted MANY hardware companies about any and all specifications needed for a next gen console.

Just beacuse it's "SONY" making the next PS doesn't mean it will be gold. You seem to be up Sony's a$$..that's for sure..lol..

Besides, just because the Xbox used "off the shelf" parts doesn't make it a bad thing. Most DEVS seem to like it and say it's very powerful and VERY easy to program for.

Plus, wouldn't ANY processor made today (whether it be custom, risc, cisc, whatever) be based more or less off 29 year old tech?

You want a 20 year old console?

Buy a freakin 2600...if you even know what that is.

***Game History: know it or be doomed to repeat it
2) Failure to recognize the last 15 years of game and hardware development / history.
a) The huge controller released with initial Xbox shows just how ignorant M$ is.
Why? Didn’t SEGA already learn this lesson for everyone else before them?
Didn’t the PS2 controller set the standard for several REASONS?
b) Failure to accommodate the Japanese market.
Again it’s all written history.
Why M$ wasn’t prepared for this market only shows just how narrow M$ vision is.***

A) how exactly did MS fail to recognize the last 15 years of the industry? I am totally in the dark on that one. Are you referring to the Sega pad?

B) regardless of the controller being a little big, it was an EXCELLENT piece of hardware
Yes the PS2 controller more or less set the standard, even though its more or less based A LOT on the SNES controller. They added on 2 more shoulder buttons and the two hand holds and VIOLA! Instant PS1 controller (gee, did SONY rip off the analog stick idea from Nintendo?)...NO!!!! not the almighty, can-do-no-wrong Sony...

remember, the first PS1 pads were stick-less..


C) The japanese market thing is difficult. As stated before, they are EXTREMELY brand loyal there. Who had the FF and DW series? Sony. Had it been Nintendo or MS is would have been a TOTALLY different ball game. Sony WAS SMART in aqquiring those 2 series (as well as several other japanese titles I am surely unaware of).

***It's in the Game: or is it?
3) Without Keyboard and Mouse control FPS are Dead, DEAD, DEAD on the Xbox console
Another example of just how far M$ has their heads up there @ss when it comes this genre.***

3) First off, what the heck does "It's in the Game: or is it?" mean???? Why the EA reference? Are you confused? Do you need a nap?

FPS in general ARE better with a M&K (being a PC gamer as well myself I am sure most of us can atest to that), but people do ok with the pad. The PS2 can use a USB M&K, and it would be welcome on the Xbox...makes some things definitely easier.

***RANT
HALO
Let just take one of the hottest game types in the industry
and then break it by removing one of the most important Elements of the game:
The Controls.
(Then we will buy Halo off the PC market and show just how much we can f*ck things up for PC gamers)***

Man you just seem to hate M$ don't you? But $5 says had Sony done what are currently ranting about all would be ok (even without the M&K). The controls work for what it is: a console FPS. YES. It WAS a PC game first. YES. They did BUY out bungie for the game. Many people STILL LIKED the game, regardless of that fact (gee as I recall most reviews were EXTREMELY positive).

***I was looking forward to playing some Halo on my Xbox with a 32" TV screen on a "level" playing field Xbox Live only to quickly discover that a GamePAD cannot even come close to the controls a KB&M can.***

No arguement there. But again, had Sony bought the game, you'd be praising it (even if the PS2 didn't support USB M&K).

***Its not that it’s just different or takes another skill set.
It just that it’s impossible to perform many moves with a GamePAD vs. a Keyboard and Mouse. PERIOD.***

Again no arguement. Again, same counter arguement.

***No serious FPS player or any serious FPS player's -money- will ever be spent on Xbox Live without this support.***

FPS games ARE much better with M&K. VERY FEW will argue that. That doesn't mean the game is unplayable, because it's not. The game WAS indeed fun and Ihad many hours of enjoyment with it,especially in co-op. But yes, M&K are INDEED better for FPS games.

****Do you hear that M$?****

You know you sound like you just wanna bitch all day long about M$?

Like I said earlier, had SONY done ANY or ALL (well except the big pad thing) of the above things you mentioned you'd be praising SONY :

For "having the insight to see what a remarkable game HALO would become".

How much "foresight" they had to introduce broadband connection to the console.

How "smart" they were for making a console from more or less off the shelf components that is SO easy to program for.

BTW, aren't there SEVERAL FPS on the PS2, many of the same as the XBox?

And unless ALL PS2 owners bought a USB M&K, "THEY" are ALL playing with *GASP*, the controller!!!

OH!!! The Humanity!!!!

Nuff said,
Kevin

P.S..and please pardon all typos and mispellings...I am at work...:p
 
IIRC the generally accepted xbox2 specs are something like this
PPC 976 (multi core 970,the G5 proc) clocked ~3.2GHZ built on the 65nm IBM process
ATI r500 variant
256-512mb of ram, open for change
either a flash drive or hard drive

and also given that MS is planning to unveil this behemoth at E3 2005, whatever specs the machine has, they have been pretty much set in stone in most aspects for a while now. also NV supposedly sent out preliminary SDK's a while ago, that were dual G5s with 9800 pros and a custom longhorn based OS kernel.
 
***the generally accepted xbox2 specs are something like this
PPC 976 (multi core 970,the G5 proc) clocked ~3.2GHZ built on the 65nm IBM process
ATI r500 variant
256-512mb of ram, open for change
either a flash drive or hard drive***

That is generally what I have heard (and as I stated, multi core, multi Ghz processor), though the HD is rumored to be nixed in favor of a flash storage medium. The ATI r500 based GPU is also what I have heard to be in the console...as well as the ram..

(speaking of which rumor has it sony lowered their ram from 512 to 256, but increased the bandwidth up to 51.xGBs to compensate)..

Who came up with the A64 processor thing anyway? That was silly..:p

**and also given that MS is planning to unveil this behemoth at E3 2005, whatever specs the machine has, they have been pretty much set in stone in most aspects for a while now. also NV supposedly sent out preliminary SDK's a while ago, that were dual G5s with 9800 pros and a custom longhorn based OS kernel.**

Yes, but Sony is also planning on unveling a working prototype at E3 also. Last I heard the Xbox SDKs have been out for a little while (weren't they rumored to have been Power Macs or something similiar?)..

peace,
Kevin
 
um, you didn't fully read what I said did you, a dual G5 is a power mac, and I said flash drive or hard drive, because at this time it not known for sure if the hard drive was nixed for the flash drive
 
Wh yd people make such a big deal if people in japan will like it? their population is only 125 million.
 
because the japanese market is far more valuable than in terms of hardware sales, with a good presence in the Japanese market more japanese developers will make games for the Xbox, increasing the size and quality of the Xbox game library.
 
f*ck hardware. The best games I played were on the ole Super Nintendo. Mmm, pixilated goodness.
 
Tribune said:
Firstly, yes i do read but i have enough inteligence to make my own judgements.

1) wtf, its going to be realsed next year.
No it is going to be shown next year.(at which point all my hardware asumpitions will be common place); Not on SALE.

2) the processor comming from ibm, did you read nothing. this is one of the only confirmed things there are.
dont most of us know that you need a rapid processor to supply even 1 GPU (X800/6800)

3) Ati currently is leading the GPU with nvidia and ass hair away. intel and ati are catching up, what are they catching up to? intel and amd are doing fine i dont think one is superior to the other as they both have good and bad qualities in their products. and ati and nvidia are both doing good as well. you need to hurt yourself for that last post.
You mean to make me believe that Microsoft will release a piece of hardware and use a 2 year old version of DirectX? (or perhaps they will choose a GPU that uses an at most 1 Year + old DirectX); just incase you missed it X800 = 2 year old Tech - 6800 = Not even in Mainstream yet.

Trib.
Click to expand...

first off this is by no means intended to be a flame war as those ruin threads.
1) i was under the impression that xbox is going to be released next year. reasons for thinking this are:

A) im pretty sure ive read that MS wants to release for x-mas next year. that would mean they need to release the xbox next year. this isnt a release date but an intended date.
B) they want to release before sony, and sony is supposed to come out in about 2 years.

2)i do not know what a rapid processor is, im sorry. so instead ill just let someone else answer this for you:
wizzackr said:
"IBM has its hands in a number of cookie jars at the moment — they will be supplying the CPU for the next-generation Xbox, which will be in direct competition with the PS3 once they both ship.", as linked above.

and as for the grafics chip:
"ANALYSTS AT THE Dundee Securities Corporation said today that Canadian company ATI was "well positioned" to pick up future Xbox business." does mean nothing is certain, but taking into account MS and nVidia both playing hardball over the royalties for xBox's grafics chip AND their hence logically rumored to be damaged relationship i'd say it's NOT nvidia this time.
Click to expand...

i could get more quotes from people and articles but i think you get the point.

3) i was not questioning what GPU structure MS will use, only stating that wtf were you thinking saying ATI is catching up. ATI is doing great right now.

hope this answers everything :p
 
Oops..my bad Merlin..lol...

(yes I know a dual G5 is a power mac my man (I am EXTREMELY computer literate, I just kinda skipped over it..totally my goofy).

..and yes I did read that you wrote "either flash or HD based" I was just writing the latest I had heard...hence the "flashed based" comment. I didn't try to discredit your post in any way. :)

Japan is a big deal more because of the DEVS in Japan more than anything else. Most of the big and best DEVS come from Japan. With the PS2 having by far the largest customer base most devs flock there first, and most games come out in Japan first. And like it or not they are STILL a decent portion of sales and the customer base overall. If you get a good foothold in Japan with a nice size customer base the DEVS will come. You might even be able to woo over some big devs for exclusive titles (Sony and Square/Enix anyone?).

Remember, in Japan games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy are actually not allowed to be released on a school day with fear of a mass student absentee list skipping school to get the game.

And YES the SNES was great..a great console with great RPGs among other things..

Peace,
kevin
 
yeah, in japan major product releases are not allowed on weekdays because IIRC
"It would impact national productivity" (translation, Japan comes to a screeching halt, think of what the US would be like if the superbowl was on a wednesday)
 
redhalo said:
f*ck hardware. The best games I played were on the ole Super Nintendo. Mmm, pixilated goodness.
Click to expand...

Striaght up man.. those were the days SNES.. i don't think I will ever love video games as much as i did when the SNES was out.. but maybe it's because i was kid... all i have to say.. those were good times.. just playing games and shit with all your buddys.. good times
 
redhalo said:
f*ck hardware. The best games I played were on the ole Super Nintendo. Mmm, pixilated goodness.
Click to expand...
The Super Nintendo was considered to have the best graphics of its generation. Try out an old Genesis again to see.
 
Well the SNES did boast a higher color pallete in comparison to the Genesis (256 vs 64) as well as a FAR superior sound chip (Actraiser sounded SOOOO awesome the first time I heard it).

The Genesis did boast a faster processor, hence why there tended to be less "slowdown" on the Genesis as opposed to the SNES..that and the whole Genesis "Blast processing" campaign..

Just a little FYI for those weren't/aren't "in the know"..:)

Peace,
kevin

P.S. ..to this day I can still remember the sounds from the game "Final Fight" every time you got hit or hit somebody else..or pushed pause for that matter..lol..
 
Legionosh said:
Well the SNES did boast a higher color pallete in comparison to the Genesis (256 vs 64) as well as a FAR superior sound chip (Actraiser sounded SOOOO awesome the first time I heard it).

The Genesis did boast a faster processor, hence why there tended to be less "slowdown" on the Genesis as opposed to the SNES..that and the whole Genesis "Blast processing" campaign..

Just a little FYI for those weren't/aren't "in the know"..:)

Peace,
kevin

P.S. ..to this day I can still remember the sounds from the game "Final Fight" every time you got hit or hit somebody else..or pushed pause for that matter..lol..
Click to expand...



LOL blast processing lol.. i remember that.. for some reason the phrase blast processing reminds me of an ice cream truck.. i think there was an ice cream trunk in a genesis add..
 
SpearBoy,

ok, i dont feel flamed. just wanted to get across a few ideas.Its just my nature to explain the bare minimum as the rest can be extrapolated.

If the most important part of the console is the GPU and Nvidia is the only company producing hardware to support the latest software MS makes now (Nvidia should slap ATI with new titles(Q3,U3)); so it makes sense MS will go with Nvidia (Currently as ATI are perhaps a year off matching hardware and drivers to suit).

Also Sony have had a farm of PS2 hardware rendering stuff for 2 years so they will produce a good/multiple GPU platform (I guess).

So like wise MS need a good GPU; a year from now the safe bet would be dual+?/6800 as it could be cheap and in use also not cost MS for developement.

Given that the current 6800 needs all the CPU power it can get (Perhaps moving the data across to the GPU wont be a problem so only a single CPU will be required). currently the best Intel Glows enough to heat the whole world (chill that in a console), which leaves AMD. Regardless of X800 or 6800 you need a 3.6Int/2.4AMD to get the best from the GPU.

As for IBM, this confuses me since when do MS write for MAC hardware? (perhaps they intend to make a mark in the MAC market later who knows, makes more sense to stick to what you know best; especially given the short demo date.

I did try to avoid the ATI / Nvidia argument, but given that ATI uses the same die tech as the 5950 which ran at 475 and ATI release a card a 520 which only just matches the 6800 at 400/450 depending; and without 6800 using new hardware, makes me believe Nvidia will have the advantage. (especially given the imminent die shrink by both manufacturers)

ok a leppard cant change its spots. (or perhaps its this white hole spewing time thats bothering me)

Trib.
 
wow! ok, here we go... and i won't even go into the first post of yours in this thread, as i'm too bored

Tribune said:
If the most important part of the console is the GPU and Nvidia is the only company producing hardware to support the latest software MS makes now (Nvidia should slap ATI with new titles(Q3,U3)); so it makes sense MS will go with Nvidia (Currently as ATI are perhaps a year off matching hardware and drivers to suit).
Click to expand...

man, and YOU say you didn't want to start a flame-war: rofl ;) however, let me put it this way: you'll have problems finding a second person on planet earth with your opinion on that one. ATI lead the performance-war quite happily for the last two years, right? funny i read the frontpage a sec ago: "...NVIDIA Back in the Game: We are finally starting to see some real competition for the ATI Radeon X800Pro here...."

Tribune said:
Also Sony have had a farm of PS2 hardware rendering stuff for 2 years so they will produce a good/multiple GPU platform (I guess).

So like wise MS need a good GPU; a year from now the safe bet would be dual+?/6800 as it could be cheap and in use also not cost MS for developement.
Click to expand...

you STILL didn't read any of the links posted, did you? currently EVERYBODY is expecting ATI to deliver the core for xbox2. rumored specs floating around EVERYWHERE on the net.

Tribune said:
Given that the current 6800 needs all the CPU power it can get (Perhaps moving the data across to the GPU wont be a problem so only a single CPU will be required). currently the best Intel Glows enough to heat the whole world (chill that in a console), which leaves AMD. Regardless of X800 or 6800 you need a 3.6Int/2.4AMD to get the best from the GPU.
Click to expand...

AMD and Intel are NOT the only companies producing microprocessors - and take it as a FACT IBM will be producing the proc for xbox2. currently perhaps the ONLY thing almost sure.

Tribune said:
I did try to avoid the ATI / Nvidia argument
Click to expand...

no, you most definitely did not :D
 
Oops..

I forgot to mention one of the SNES' MOST touted features :

MODE 7 :eek:

For those who don't know what that is/was, it was basically hardware based sprite scaling and rotation (which in the day was a very neat trick)..

F-Zero anyone? (very fun game..played that one A LOT)
Pilotwings? (neat use of Mode 7)
Castlevania 4!! Very underated game In my opinion..(unique uses of Mode 7 here also)

peace all,
kevin
 
iZero said:
You managed to flush all credibility down the toilet right off the bat.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand.
I apparently have no credibility for using "M$ = Microsoft"
I am naive as well.

Legionosh

Yes, I did RANT and BITCH.
I completely admit that.

However, I didn’t post what I did -just- to RANT or Bitch.
I posted in direct response as to why I think M$ will probably loose the next console race.
Hence the Topic of this thread.

I was just trying to magnify what I see as serious problems with the development their next gen console.

The Xbox is based on the x86 processor and its PC architecture.
It is a fact, that it's a PC in disguise.
Everyone accepts this.
http://www.xbox-linux.org/
Now its time for M$ to no longer, again, rest on its laurels.

Plus, wouldn't ANY processor made today (whether it be custom, risc, cisc, whatever) be *based more or less off 29 year old tech?
Click to expand...

That's an extremely over generalized statement.
It would be like saying the light bulb is comparable to a lazer because they both emit light.
I bring up the age of the x86 processor not for its LEGACY in time
but for the idea that M$ has been programming language that uses this Achitecure for YEARS.
They simply ported a NT MicroKernal as the Xbox OS for hardware they already knew quite a lot about.
They CANNOT do this with custom harware.
They will have to write new code from the ground up using hardware they have very little experiance with.
Now ask yourself why there are such a questions surrounding Xbox1 compatibility....
PowerPC would mean Xbox1 Emulation on Xbox2. Not likely.
AMD or Intel would at least give them a leg to stand on.

If M$ wants to get up to speed on this learning curve they better have hired the best R&D specialists in the world when going down the road of specialized hardware.
They have enough money... now its just a matter of how much ego will get in the way.
And Luck

Legionosh
I know what a 2600 is.
Do you know what a PET or a TI-99 is? Those are what I started working on.
Come on, lets not go down the road of who is older, smarter and wiser... that's just stupid.

15 years of console development history.
From the original NES PAD that shipped only in Japan (TINY) to the Brick that is the original Xbox controller.
Yes, the Sega Genesis went through the same "Controller is to big" problem in the 80's and early 90's.
I admire Sony for taking the hard learned lessons of the console industry, earned much at
the expense of the consumer, and then putting them into action with the PS2.
Analog control was a slow development in the evolution of game pad.
Point is, in terms of size, there was no reason to reinvent the wheel on the control pad.
Hummm.... wonder why the megahuge pad isn’t boxed with the Xbox anymore....
Same thing happened to Sega... history repeating itself.
(Sega is just shows good examples of harware blunders over the years and that just too bad)

I like M$. (even though there are valid reasons not to like M$)
I really do like Win2K and WinXP.

I don't own a PS2.
I could care less about Sony.

FanBoy, I am not.
I go with the best, what ever the best maybe at the time.
I hold no prejuduce.
Just strong opinion.

It's in the Game.... Well, keyboard and mouse support are not in all but one Xbox Game.
None of them FPS's.
Yep, it’s an old EA marketing reference.
Just woke up from my nap... really.

If M$ wants to be succesfull with Live and FPS, seems to me they are with every FPS game Live enabled, then they need put back what was taken and fix what was broken.
Then they will see there Live profits rise when the real FPS gamers are allowed to play the
game the way it was meant to played.

Broken does not mean unplayable.
It just means Broken.

Halo is a Great game period. (That's why M$ bought it.)
Because of that it would be great on ANY platform.
Because the controls are not broken on a console... its just better on the PC.

Not everything is as two dimensional as they seem.
Especially when posting something that is written.
More often ideas are much more 3 dimensional and complicated.
Like trying to compare different computing architectures
and then trying to determine which -one- is best.
Apples and Oranges.

I like both the SNES and Genesis and own both.
Its all about the games and the people who create them.

I have spent a lot of time defending my opinions here....
[H]ard fucking forums indeed :p


The Next Xbox Console:
IBM PowerPC Processors (maybe Cell) @ 2-3 Ghz.
Custom nVidia Video
256-500 MB FlashRAM
DVD
SIS MB to tie them all together, providing basic I\O, A/V out, sound & ethernet.
G5 workstations being used as Beta SDK development platforms.
 
There is a simple solution to this problem...buy them both and shut the hell up. :D


That's what I ended up doing, Xbox has great sports games and the PS2 dominates the RPG's. I forsee the same for the xbox2 and the ps3. Simple solution, get them both.

and btw, consoles owned much more back in the genesis vs snes days. I remember when street fighter 2 came out on snes and I didnt have to go to the arcade anymore. I think I'm gonna cry now.
 
Yea just buy them both. It's not like we're talking about getting a 6800U and a X800XT-PE at the same time here. Though I would probably wait a couple of months after launch before getting the second console because the prices will be through the roof. I don't remember the Genesis or the original Playstation costing $299 during launch.
 
GlobalFear said:
Xbox 2 vs PS3 vs GameCube 2 vs Phantom
Click to expand...

What the hell is the Phantom??

And remember nintendo is preeching revolution... i have a question.. what company made teh analog stick? the fist system to have it was N64.. did nintend invent that concept?
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
What the hell is the Phantom??

And remember nintendo is preeching revolution... i have a question.. what company made teh analog stick? the fist system to have it was N64.. did nintend invent that concept?
Click to expand...

Infinium Labs' Phantom. It's some subscription based computer/console thing, but that's a different story. The N64 was the first system to have an analog stick, but it feels like the Dual Shock made the concept popular.
 
I don't think any of you comprehend that the makers of components were decided upwards of 1.5 years ago, at that point ATI had a serious lead over NVidia in terms of forward looking architecture, plus every rumor and leak has a r500 based video chipset. also IBM and MS have publically announced that they are working together on the proc for xbox2 and that it would be powerpc based. regardless of who does what in the desktop realm between now and xbox2 launch, the general specs are set in stone, they are not up for debate. (specifics, like clock speeds, and special features, amounts of memory, and things like that are probably being nailed down between now and the beginning of next year, if they haven't already been decided on.
 
heatsinker said:
Infinium Labs' Phantom. It's some subscription based computer/console thing, but that's a different story. The N64 was the first system to have an analog stick, but it feels like the Dual Shock made the concept popular.
Click to expand...

Just like many other inovations I think Sega came out with a analog stick way before Nintendo as a pack in with Nights.
 
Yeah I'm rooting for the Xbox2 just cause I'm a big fan of the direction MS took console gaming this time around. Plus I'm a big xbox modder. So I hope everything that is xbox is simply amplified through xbox2
 
2. Game quality. Everyone knows consols are sold below cost and the producer expects to make money off of a portion of the games sold. Even if XBOX2 could rip PS3 a new one in terms of hardware power, Sony will always have the advantage of a strong game development network. People will buy consols for the games, not for the hardware.
Click to expand...

The Playstation 2 launch disproved this theory. Game quality has absolutely nothing to do with sales. The PS2 was dominant from day one, yet it had generic, mediocre games up until the release of Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (Which was about nine months later)

You cant enjoy a FPS or a RTS on the consol in the same way you enjoy them on a computer.
Click to expand...

The four-million who own Halo beg to differ.

Microsoft came out of the gate a LOT harder than everyone anticipated. They secured a good amount of third-party support and managed to established some truly excellent first-party bases (Who the hell saw that coming?)

Xbox Live is now flourishing, and should be active with the next version of Xbox from day one. This is a huge advantage in itself...this online network is one of the most organized and simple-to-use online gaming systems in any industry, including counterparts in the PC industry. It's also got a serious list of features that PS2online hasn't even come close to matching yet.

Xbox might be a more powerful system etc, but people always recognize the Playstation name and its fan base following certian titles is enormous.
Click to expand...

Times change. Before the Playstation you could have said the same thing about Nintendo, and look how quickly they've fallen (They're losing third-party support left and right and are STILL making the same mistakes. Slow development and alienation of publishers that want to make mature-only games). The Gamecube hardware is top-notch...if only they would use it for something complex.

Nintendo are well out of shape, but to say they dont have money is not entirely correct. They have a slush fund of serveral billion. They still hold handhelds market.
Click to expand...

Not for long. The PS3 might be more of the same in the console market, but the PSP will be offering something that handheld gamers have never played before.

Not only will the new PS3 have a better core processor/chipset, the GPU is supposed to be amazing(havent seen any yet from the R&D dept, but i have "heard" great things)
Click to expand...

That is Sony's biggest enemy. They keep developing radical hardware that nobody really knows how to use. It took developers a long time to figure out how to use it correctly, which is why we were waiting so long for some decent games. Microsoft opts to use high-end, existing equipment because it's not as complex.

Microsoft doesn't need Japanese consumers to win. They do need the developers, however, and they've done a good job at keeping them satisfied with the dollars. If they can control America/Europe (Which they're quite capable of doing), Sony will have more of a fight than they're bargaining for.
 
I hope ms takes a more fiscally responsible path in the next gen wars, they have done well with sales but I can't imagine that losing hundreds of millions on a console is a good profit plan.

Otherwise sony will do well again, ms needs japan, they are too big, and I hope nintendo comes around with their next system.

But what I would love is for nintendo to rerelease some old classics for the nes and snes.
 
I don't think Xbox 2 can take Sony's lead but I do think they can come within 30% of Sony next generation. We will see.
 
Its obvious who will win. The xbox. Microsoft will just continue to buy out every good game developer, buy out and stamp out all competition till they win. Then we all lose.
 
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