Xbox 720 Hardware guess from IGN

Comixbooks

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Well if you leave out the O.S and just use something like the Media Bar in the Ps3 that ATi card should be good enough for many years to come.

On used games lol if someone wants a game enough they will pay the full price =) The used game market is worse then Piracy for developers
 

bigdogchris

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On used games lol if someone wants a game enough they will pay the full price =) The used game market is worse then Piracy for developers
FYI, this includes letting friends borrow games.

If it is true that they are blocking used game's on Xbox 720, then that's going to suck for a lot of people. It gives Sony some wiggle room to allow used games, but require online pass, to have that market of gamers.
 
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HisSvt76

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this online pass stuff is bullshit! this and high cost of entry for good pc gaming is going to crash the game market ! i see a console and a gaming crash in our future.
 

owenhehe

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This is good news for my pocket. It means no PC upgrade in the next 2 years, maybe 3. My current system can rule any new game. Why you guys are complaining? It is a good news, guys, don't you get it.
 

J Macker

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I hear some talk(rumors) that the next xbox will not play "used" games. It seems that their next console will focus heavily on DRM. If this is true, forget about taking your games to a friends house, trading games, selling games. New games that you buy will forever be tied to your xbox. It will be somewhat like what steam is doing.

They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they did that.
 

FranklyShankly

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This is good news for my pocket. It means no PC upgrade in the next 2 years, maybe 3. My current system can rule any new game. Why you guys are complaining? It is a good news, guys, don't you get it.

Not having to upgrade is nice, sure, but if it means that games aren't going to advance beyond their current state for YEARS then I'm sad. I'd rather have to upgrade and actually get some next-gen stuff coming along.

If these numbers for the 360 are true, many of us would barely have to upgrade through a couple years into the next console gen.
 

J Macker

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the difference is that if you dont allow second hand sales then it costs less. ..

the only way xbox can excuse this is if they lower the prices of their games significantly. and they will have to make provisions for people buying a new xbox (like when hdmi models came out, or when they RROD'd and users got a replacement) probably by locking it to your account instead of to the actual machine. the idea of locked games in itself does not worry me, whats worries me is that i doubt they'll decrease the prices of the games at all when they do it.

QFT. They're not going to drop the games <$50. People in the USA are used to paying that. I bet they could drastically increase their revenue by dropping new AAA games to $30 and implmenting the DRM 1-owner system though. People will think they're getting a deal.
 

sirmonkey1985

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But can it run at 1920x1080 with any reasonable level of graphics quality? In a PC, it struggles to do that, according to the couple of reviews I just flicked through, many current games even on low settings can't be run at 30fps on a 6670 at 1920x1080.

We know the 360 will run BF3 at shit settings at an uber low resolution... a 7000 series card of similar vintage to the 360 might be able to do that as well, has anyone tested it? :p

What we want to know is whether the new 6670 powered Xbox will run at 1920x1080.

thats the million dollar question though, does the new xbox actually support native 1080p or is it just going to be upconverted 720p.. my guess is it will be upconverted 720p which in its self is still higher then the current 360 games which are less than 720p upconverted to 720p and 1080i. but who knows at this point..


QFT. They're not going to drop the games <$50. People in the USA are used to paying that. I bet they could drastically increase their revenue by dropping new AAA games to $30 and implmenting the DRM 1-owner system though. People will think they're getting a deal.

in theory yes, will it happen? not a chance in hell.. the vast majority of american consumers are idiots and they will pay what ever price they see. if they want the game bad enough they will pay the 50 or 60 dollars no matter what.. ahem COD MW/MW2/BO/MW3 ring a bell? so either way theres no point in doing it.. sure you get less sales but in this case the extra volume in sales doesn't equal a high enough profit gain then just leaving it at 50 or 60 dollars.

(yes i'm american and no i don't fit in that demographic)



Not having to upgrade is nice, sure, but if it means that games aren't going to advance beyond their current state for YEARS then I'm sad. I'd rather have to upgrade and actually get some next-gen stuff coming along.

If these numbers for the 360 are true, many of us would barely have to upgrade through a couple years into the next console gen.


i think it really comes down to how well they can optimize dx11 for the new xbox. we really haven't seen the true potential of dx11 at this point so i think theres plenty of optimization available to the API. either way even if the graphic quality is shit on the console its a better sign for the PC side as well since we will no longer have to deal with dx9 ports or dx9 to dx10/11 ports. but i'd still like to see what they are able to do with the 6670.
 
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Staples

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If the graphics power is only 6x what the Xbox 360, I'd be disappointed. The CPU being only 6x as powerful is less disappointing but if MS plans another 8 year life cycle before we see the successor, PCs may catch up very quickly in terms of graphics on mainstream PCs.

It can be based on an older architecture and still be more powerful however the newer architectures run DX11 more efficient than 1 gen DX11 parts.
 

GibsonEX

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Let's say you get Xbox3 and buy 20 games and your console goes belly up after year or two. They send you a new one, then what? Will your new box flag your games as used and refuse to play them, or what is going to happen?
 

Viper87227

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Let's say you get Xbox3 and buy 20 games and your console goes belly up after year or two. They send you a new one, then what? Will your new box flag your games as used and refuse to play them, or what is going to happen?

There is absolutely no way Microsoft would hard-wire the games to the console. Hardware failure is a given with consoles and they have to have a way around that. The only feasible way to do it would be to tie the games to the account. If the hardware dies, you transfer your account to the new console and the game licenses go with it.
 

Domingo

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While I really don't like the idea of killing off the used games market, looking back it's pretty rare I've bought used games. I tend to get the main releases I want at release and the outliers when they're on sale. Around here the price difference between used games and normal games on sale isn't that drastic thanks to GameStop.
The real people this screws would be the people who borrow and trade a lot of games more than buying and selling used I'd think.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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um obviously you missed the explination that was given early on by microsoft with the 360 name which has to do with the complete redesign of the console from the original xbox, thus the 360. and while i agree 720 probably won't be the next consoles name i have a feeling it will end up being xbox 1080 specifically to advertise the fact that the system runs and supports 1080p natively, its common sense marketing. the actual numbers have absolutely nothing to do with playstation and their using the playstation 1 2 3 or 4.




there is a huge difference though between PC level graphics and console level graphics. if you really think the 6670 won't do that good, go look at BF3 on the 360 using a 7+ year old hybrid HD2000 series GPU. if that can play BF3, i'm pretty sure the 6670 will do just fine.

6670 is not even as strong as a 4870......and rumor has it that is what the Wii U is packing in terms of performance....

6670 Aliens vs Predator 1650*1080 1xMSAA 8xAF 34.9 FPS
4870 same game 1920*1200 0XMSAA 8xAF 54.3FPS

neither of those things are giving you smooth frames at 1080p

2.3MP per frame with 0MSAA vs 1.7 with 1x MSAA (is there even a thing as 1xMSAA? I thought 2x was the min..)

Above is according to Tom's VGA charts.

PC and it's OS are definately NOT a determining factor here and the Xbox 360 is running BF3 SUB 720p and scaling it up....to put the power of the console GPU in perspective, an ATI 1800XL packs more power than what the consoles have (Available at time of 360 release).

6x the performance of a 360/ps3 graphics wise would be AT LEAST a 6950...
 

Drheadbang

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You can get a lot more power out of a console gpu than a PC gpu. I would expect about 6870 level based on the greater optimization devs can use. Still is nothing compared with the 300 a upper mid range/ lower enthusiast gpu could get you in 2013.
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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^ no you can't, as I mentioned before the console CPU could not keep up with the current hardware at the time....

what you get with a console is PREDICTABLE performance that is quantifiable and is the same accross all of the consoles that use that config.....because they all use the exact same OS, memory GPU, CPU and software load...

by the time the next console is released PC graphics power will be insane compared to it...
 
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Ticker305

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Why can't they just release a console with an upgradeable external GPU option to future proof it.
 

Tudz

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You can get a lot more power out of a console gpu than a PC gpu.

Proof?

Personally I don't actually think you can. You can get more standardisation, so that in 5 years all games are dumbed down enough to still play on all consoles, where as on PC the games might have moved beyond your graphics card and the developers are no longer making settings low enough for you to play. However, I hear this argument often that you can get more power out of a console GPU than a PC GPU without any actual evidence and my personal experience is not the same.

Back when I bought the PC that eventually evolved into my current PC, it was running an 8800GTS 320mb. I remember looking at it compared to the consoles and the 7900 series cards (which is similar to a PS3 GPU). The 8800GTS had around twice the performance of the 7000 series cards, and honestly, that's about how it performed compared to the consoles. Where the console was playing DIRT at what looking like medium/low settings at 1280x720 (link), my 8800GTS was playing it at high settings and 1680x1050. So almost twice as many pixels AND higher settings. And DIRT wasn't the only game I checked, there were a few multiplatform games that showed similar results.

So I really don't see much evidence that X GPU in a console is significantly better than the same X GPU when in a PC. Maybe slightly better, but I don't think the difference is mind blowing.

Bottom line, if a 6670 isn't sufficient for 1080p on a PC, I doubt it'll be sufficient for 1080p on a console unless they reduce graphics levels to below "low" settings even for current games (not even thinking about the games of the future).
 

Dome

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so no one is bothering to wait for ms to make an announcement before saying they're stupid, greedy, and that the console will suck?
 

Tudz

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so no one is bothering to wait for ms to make an announcement before saying they're stupid, greedy, and that the console will suck?

All we're doing is discussing the rumor that was posted in the OP, which was that the new Xbox will have a 6670 derived GPU. How can we say they will, in the future, be greedy, stupid and the console will suck... we're just discussing a rumor, coz ya know, this being a "discussion forum" and all that. :rolleyes:
 

Spidey329

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Hrmmm .. Windows8 is supposed to have DirectX 11.1. I would suspect that any new console would use the latest DX version (stupid to start behind the curve). The 6670's don't have 11.1 support, that I know of.

Just saying.
 

Tudz

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It would end up being like a PC. Plus, why stop at the GPU?

Yeah, the N64 had an upgradable memory slot and it really wasn't all that beneficial. Only a few games used it and not to great effect. The problem becomes you have to develop games for both people who have it and people who don't, you can't just make a game that requires it and excludes everyone who doesn't.

Also, if consoles came with upgradable GPU slots, you can guarantee it'd be a proprietory slot/card and you can be sure they'd over charge for it :p You'd be wondering why your upgrade to a low end GPU is more expensive than a high end GPU for a PC.
 

sd11

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It's a really silly idea honestly. Keep in mind that consoles have hardware level access to all the items. Plus the games are tweaked to run exactly on that hardware at the way it is. Often at that exact clock rate. Try overclocking some consoles, games run at turbo speed and act really bizarre at times, it doesn't boost frame rate at all.

Plus the problem with upgrades is if you make anything that can really use it, then you have to have the upgrade for it. This historically causes massive amounts of problems. And since one of the largest selling points of consoles is "it just works" it's self defeating.

The hardware level access is another reason you can get more from a console GPU.

There are already consoles with upgraded memory anyways, dev kits or the arcade version kits. If you really want them.

Plus ask SEGA about upgradable consoles and how that turns out!
 

Domingo

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Plus ask SEGA about upgradable consoles and how that turns out!

I still blame this for the Dreamcast tanking. When everything was said and done I had a Genesis that was somewhere around 2 feet tall. Each add-on was praised as a huge leap for gaming only to be abandoned almost immediately for the next upgrade. Once they finally brought out the 32X to kick-start the next generation of gaming...then all of a sudden the Saturn showed up in stores unannounced and killed it off almost immediately. Rather than do anything with the Saturn in the US, they killed it off even more prematurely. I know a ton of people that vowed to never get anything from them ever again as a result. A lot of people are nostalgic about Sega, but I'm still a bit bitter about all of that nonsense.
 

HisSvt76

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I still blame this for the Dreamcast tanking. When everything was said and done I had a Genesis that was somewhere around 2 feet tall. Each add-on was praised as a huge leap for gaming only to be abandoned almost immediately for the next upgrade. Once they finally brought out the 32X to kick-start the next generation of gaming...then all of a sudden the Saturn showed up in stores unannounced and killed it off almost immediately. Rather than do anything with the Saturn in the US, they killed it off even more prematurely. I know a ton of people that vowed to never get anything from them ever again as a result. A lot of people are nostalgic about Sega, but I'm still a bit bitter about all of that nonsense.

agreed we do not need this again, on a side note i still have my Dreamcast and play it quite often.
 

bigdogchris

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I still don't understand why the Dreamcast was killed off. They finally delivered a console that was doing well, and it could of easily competed against the PS2.
 

sd11

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I still don't understand why the Dreamcast was killed off. They finally delivered a console that was doing well, and it could of easily competed against the PS2.

PS2 hype killed it, plain and simple, plus past losses.

The history just wasn't with them. They fucked up by having "expandable consoles", that was a stupid idea. Since you needed the expansions to run the game and the console turned into a hot mess. A lot of people got burned on that and were rather turned off by the time the Saturn hit.

Which kinda bit them in the ass with the Saturn. And while the Saturn actually has a far superior line up than the PS1, doesn't mean shit in the US since those games were all Asian! So the Saturn got spanked in the West and Sony took on the mantle of "king of consoles".

Que the Dreamcast. Amazing system with amazing games. Selling OK, but the PS2 is on the horrizon, and because of the Saturn VS the PS1 fiasco all of a sudden all the magazines, all the websites, all the TV ads are now nothing but PS2 and how much it is going to kick ass. Sucks the wind right out of the Dreamcasts sails, and a lot of games that would have come out for it in the West are now delayed for the PS2.

Rather than sit out and lose big like they did with the Saturn SEGA yanked it in the West. However games still came out for it in Asia for a long ass time. Especially given that the most popular arcades there still ran Naomi boards (Dreamcast + RAM with ability to co-process between systems) so there was no work required for ports, and port they did like mad. After a bit SEGA just decides to concentrate on arcade hardware and software.
 

Domingo

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After getting burned by the Saturn and pretty much every other Sega item after the Genesis I refused to buy the Dreamcast and I know I'm not alone.
Plus, by the time the Dreamcast hit, the PS2 had been announced. The stills of Tekken Tag, Madden, and Ridge Racer pretty much looked photo realistic compared with the DC.
It was public backlash and the impending killer system on the horizon.

Depending on what MS and Sony have available it wouldn't shock me to see this happen again only this time burning the Wii U.
 

Ocellaris

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I still don't understand why the Dreamcast was killed off. They finally delivered a console that was doing well, and it could of easily competed against the PS2.

SEGA stiffed a bunch of resellers with Saturns that they delivered by the truck load (late) after SEGA gave up fighting Sony. There was a big debacle where the retailers couldn't send the units back and SEGA did nothing for them All SEGA cared about was trying to get their money for those consoles. Because of this, some retailers refused to carry the Dreamcast at all. Without full retailer support, it was dead in the water before it even launched in the US.
 

Ocellaris

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jonneymendoza

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I still don't understand why the Dreamcast was killed off. They finally delivered a console that was doing well, and it could of easily competed against the PS2.

the dreamcast had the best games out and my favourite console of all time. fucking shit it did bad. Seems like people only care about sequels after sequels after sequels instead of new and refreshing games like crazy taxi, jet set radio, sega bass fishing and not to mention Shenmue.

A fucking joke it died mate.
 

sd11

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the dreamcast had the best games out and my favourite console of all time. fucking shit it did bad. Seems like people only care about sequels after sequels after sequels instead of new and refreshing games like crazy taxi, jet set radio, sega bass fishing and not to mention Shenmue.

A fucking joke it died mate.

It did bad compared to the PS2. It effectively died off as soon as the PS2 hype started building and never recovered. That doesn't mean the games on it weren't great, the games were amazing, the homebrew games seen is still going on with new releases you can buy to this day, and it's great. And it's still fun to hack and mod.

But is a commercial venture, yeah it was a fucking failure.
 

rudy

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If this unsubstantiated random guess is true (lol). It means the next console generation will go nearly exactly like the last. Xbox will have more power than the wii sony will release last and claim the most power, if that is true remains to be seen.

I also think the GPU power must be wrong. Last generation they went for what were decent powered GPUs for the time. Now they are going to throw in something that is just plain weak right now, but will release nearly 2 years later? That cannot be right.
 

Tudz

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I also think the GPU power must be wrong. Last generation they went for what were decent powered GPUs for the time. Now they are going to throw in something that is just plain weak right now, but will release nearly 2 years later? That cannot be right.

Yeah I reckon it sounds fishy to use such a low end part, though maybe they are having heat/power issues so can't use more powerful stuff. When you're limiting youself to the size of your average console with the little baby fans they use and you don't want it to sound like a vacuum cleaner, you can't just whack something more powerful in like you can with a desktop.
 

ekuest

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Yeah I reckon it sounds fishy to use such a low end part, though maybe they are having heat/power issues so can't use more powerful stuff. When you're limiting youself to the size of your average console with the little baby fans they use and you don't want it to sound like a vacuum cleaner, you can't just whack something more powerful in like you can with a desktop.

all you have to do in a console is make a duct or put the gpu fan right next to a mesh hole in the case and youre fine. they do like to skimp on their cooling though dont they? :)
 

jonneymendoza

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If this unsubstantiated random guess is true (lol). It means the next console generation will go nearly exactly like the last. Xbox will have more power than the wii sony will release last and claim the most power, if that is true remains to be seen.

I also think the GPU power must be wrong. Last generation they went for what were decent powered GPUs for the time. Now they are going to throw in something that is just plain weak right now, but will release nearly 2 years later? That cannot be right.

Wrong. the Wii u will have a 4870 card compared to a 6650 card which is weaker
 

sd11

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Yeah I reckon it sounds fishy to use such a low end part, though maybe they are having heat/power issues so can't use more powerful stuff. When you're limiting youself to the size of your average console with the little baby fans they use and you don't want it to sound like a vacuum cleaner, you can't just whack something more powerful in like you can with a desktop.

Consoles are made to hit a performance area of where they want to be. Not dick wave about specs. Also consoles are piles of shit like PCs are. You get hardware level access and there is no bloat of them from stupid layers or OS, so you get a lot more with less.

I wouldn't worry about it.
 

daglesj

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I guess all they have done is look at what can deliver solid 1080p gaming at around 30 minimum-60fps maximum.

I'm pretty sure a modded/custom/hybrid 6670/6770 with an optimised DX11/12 API, custom Cell style CPU and some tweaky cache/ram could well do that. With all those optimisations no reason why a 6670 couldn't perform as well as a 6850 or better I reckon.

1080p is the bar now. Do you need a 6970/580+ for that? No. Its whatever will do the job for the minimum cost per box. I don't think the next gen of consoles will be such a big leap as the current gen were. More evolutionary than revolutionary. That means cheaper parts.

Sony and MS will be wanting to get some profit back on each box far sooner than they were back in 2005/6. Shareholders and the market cant sustain such losses anymore.
 
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