X570 Chipset to have 40 PCIe 4.0 lanes

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Elf_Boy, May 1, 2019.

  1. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,293
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Darth Kyrie, c3k, DejaWiz and 4 others like this.
  2. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,103
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    If that is true, it literally changes the HEDT landscape if we see 16C Ryzen processors on socket AM4. Good times to be an enthusiast.
     
  3. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    If this is true, and not just a rumor, I am elated.

    This took Ryzen from being a "hope I can make it work" platform to being a perfect platform.

    I wonder how the bandwidth will work though.

    I presume in practice there will be 16x lanes coming straight off the CPU for the number 1 16x "GPU" slot.

    The link says there are 40 lanes coming off the chipset, and that the 40x figure INCLUDES the uplink to the CPU.

    If Ryzen keeps their 28x lanes of previous generation, and we subtract out the 16x lanes for the GPU slot, this leaves 12 lanes. Now how are these split?

    Another 8x direct to CPU slot, and 4 more lanes that go to the chipset, Leaving 40-4 = 36 lanes on the chipset sharing the bandwidth of 4 lanes from the CPU? Or maybe all 12 go to the chipset, leaving 28 lanes off of the chipset sharing the bandwidth of 12? Or somewhere in between?
     
  4. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    Agreed. I wonder what happens to Threadripper in this situation. All these PCIe lanes and Cores....

    Kyle, is that you? I haven't seen that handle in a while!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
    DrezKill likes this.
  5. aliaskary77

    aliaskary77 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    279
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006

    ssshhhh….don't tell anyone!
     
    harvestor, DrezKill, alxlwson and 3 others like this.
  6. clockdogg

    clockdogg Gawd

    Messages:
    850
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    Profile says he's male, mean and from Texas. That's at least 2 out of 3 right there.
     
  7. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    21,166
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    guess this explains why AMD wanted to go with their own chipset design.. hope it's true because there are some interesting configurations that could be done with that many 4.0 lanes.

    after looking further into it, i think the 40 is actually a combined cpu + chipset instead of just 40 from the chipset alone which would make more sense and is still a huge improvement for am4. we'll see though.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
    dragonstongue likes this.
  8. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut Gawd

    Messages:
    980
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Now this actually makes me wish I had been able to hold out for this generation if it's true. 2+ NVME drives without any sacrifices and plenty of lanes for everything else would be nice.
     
  9. German Muscle

    German Muscle [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,811
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    PCI-E 4.0 8x = PCI-E 3.0 16x

    Its the equivalent of having 80 PCI-E 3.0 lanes.
     
  10. pillagenburn

    pillagenburn Gawd

    Messages:
    935
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    I'm confused, why do we care about more PCI-E lanes if multi-gpu sucks and no one does multi-gpu? I mean a sound card uses 4 lanes maybe? I'm honestly confused by why so many PCI-E lanes, or is this meant to be a HEDT-lite platform?
     
    Vader1975 likes this.
  11. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,406
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
  12. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,968
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Mostly for those running NVMe's and possibly a sound card or somesuch.
     
    tunatime and elite.mafia like this.
  13. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,643
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    CUE INTERNAL PANIC

    Not really; we know that we cannot expect AMD to get their single-core performance up to par with Zen 2, as nice as that would be.

    But for literally anything except gaming, especially storage-intensive stuff and stuff that needs faster networking, this would be awesome.

    [40Gbit cards from datacenter pulls are coming down in price, right? I need two...]
     
  14. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,335
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    That would be nice for my 4770 Ubuntu box.... I hate rumors and speculation. Let’s get’em shipping.
     
  15. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000


    In my x79 system with 40 PCIe lanes I have a GPU, two NVMe drives (Intel 750 and Samsung 970 Evo) a sound card and a 10gigabit NIC (for direct connection to my NAS)

    I also like to have some free slots in case I need to add some sort of expansion.

    I don't necessarily need all 40 lanes my CPU has, but I do need more than what many of these basic bitch systems have included as of late.
     
    DrezKill and lostin3d like this.
  16. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,917
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Because with this we can have 8 6 x16 slots (even if a few are reduced to PCIe 3.0 speeds), which means more options as far as configuration, or even 3 x16 slots and 2-3 x4 or x1 slots, which would be more than enough for a gbit (or more) network card at 4.0 speeds and still leave room for nvme slots on the board.

    Edit: Err, 6...my math was a bit off. lol
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  17. CombatChrisNC

    CombatChrisNC [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,122
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    BINGO!

    Where are the PCIe 4.0 cards? Storage, controllers, network, graphics?
     
  18. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000
    It is, but your expansion cards have to support it, otherwise you fall back to older standards.

    In my case, none of my expansion cards do.

    My GPU (16x) and my two NVMe devices are Gen 3 (x4), my 10Gbit NIC (8x) and my sound card (1x) are Gen 1.

    I'm not going to get all new peripherals just because my new system supports Gen 4, so in practical terms here, a lane is a lane regardless of gen at this point :p
     
    funkydmunky likes this.
  19. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,968
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Totally forgot about NIC's. I actually have an Intel WIFI/BT card in my Z68 rig.
     
    Zarathustra[H] likes this.
  20. bwang

    bwang Gawd

    Messages:
    961
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    This is amazing if its true (and those 40 lanes are a real 40 lanes, not some 40-to-8 lane switch like what Intel does) - multi-GPU is dead, but even low-end SSD's are transitioning to NVMe, which means every hard drive now takes up 4 lanes.
    Not to mention other nonsense such as 10Gbe, Vive wireless, audio, etc...
     
  21. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,968
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Totally agree. I remember after I built my x79 rig seeing specs coming down for 6 cores with 28 lanes and then 40 making a comeback and thinking it's so weird they went backwards. I put a lot of research into finding not just a board/cpu that had 40 lanes but also making sure the board properly supported the use of all the lanes since some have very odd ways of partitioning them. Reading up on NVMe's in the last couple of years I've seen this continue to be a big issue if you want to use other cards/peripherals.

    Man it's nice having 40, even if I'm not always using them.
     
  22. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,229
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Yeah I still don't have any nvme's. I would if I was doing a brand new PC build though or if I had something work-related that could really make use of them. I got a soundcard and because of no nvme I don't have any issue with the lanes.
     
  23. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,107
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Bad time to own a 2950x sigh....

    AMD better not shit on thier hedt users. Maybe offer a heavily reduced trade in program or something.
     
  24. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    13,918
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    More sata ports, more nvme ports, more lanes for 10Gb adapters.....There is more to expansion cards than GPUS :)
     
    Zarathustra[H] likes this.
  25. pillagenburn

    pillagenburn Gawd

    Messages:
    935
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    I see what you're saying.

    Though the preponderance of users are going to use onboard sound, we're now getting 10gbe onboard, and users may use one or two nvme ports . Also, as cost per gb comes down precipitously for ssd's this may end up being only one nvme port.

    So I'm still a little confused as to the use-case if not for multi-gpu but hey..... more is better!
     
  26. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,917
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    The on board stuff uses lanes too. ;)
     
  27. AthlonXP

    AthlonXP [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    20,237
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Gotta love competition again. Everyone wins! Will be happy if this turns out to be true.
     
    DrezKill likes this.
  28. faugusztin

    faugusztin 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,633
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    Even if the chipset actually had 40 PCI-E 4.0 lanes, it changes nothing on the side of CPU connectivity. The connection between the CPU and X570 is still going to be only x4 4.0 (with Ryzen 3000 series) or x4 3.0 with older CPUs. As they are not changing the AM4 socket pinout, they cannot change the PCH connectivity either.

    Another side of the story is what others mentioned, that is counting CPU lanes into the total. Remember, the Ryzen CPUs have 20 direct PCI-E lanes (x16 for PCI-E, x4 for a NVMe SSD). Add the lanes which X570 will provide (let's say it will make 16 lanes from the x4 connectivity to the CPU), that brings it up to 32. Add the lanes "required" for various internal controllers (SATA, USB) and boom, you are up to 40 lanes; but you won't see huge part of them as PCI-E slots, you will see them as M.2 slots, as SATA or USB connectors.
     
  29. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    13,918
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    I use onboard sound, and even onboard 10G (rarely available) is usually copper only :(. Most of my boxes have $15-$30 10Gbit SFP based NICS, at least 1 video card & could always use more storage...
     
  30. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000

    Well, if the x570 chipset has the ability to utilize all the gen 4 x4 bandwidth and provide it as independent earlier generation lanes, this could be interesting.

    Most of my stuff except my GPU is either gen 2 or gen 1. 4x gen 4 lanes is 16 gen 2 lanes or 32 gen1 lanes worth of bandwidth.

    And not every device is going to max out bandwidth at the same time.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer more lanes straight to the CPU, but this could be a good compromise which saves me the expense of a Threadripper.
     
  31. faugusztin

    faugusztin 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,633
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
    What i was trying to say is that this could be same thing as Intel HSIO, where they claim they have 40 lanes, but that is 16 lanes from CPU plus some dedicated lanes for SATA, USB, ethernet etc. So it could be similar - claiming to have 40 lanes, but in reality it is just 4-8 more PCI-E lanes compared to previous generation.
     
  32. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,470
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    The way I read this, the chipset will have 40 PCIe lanes. However, we know nothing of the interconnect to the CPU. More than likely, it will be a 4x Gen 4.0 bus that's similar to what Intel and AMD uses now, albeit with more bandwidth. For AMD, this is still huge as the X470 chipset only has eight PCIe Gen 2.0 lanes. The interesting facet of this is how this will impact the HEDT market space. There are guys like me that have been buying it for the extra CPU cores, but primarily for the additional PCIe lanes so that we can use multiple GPU's, storage add-in cards, and more PCIe based storage. Adding a significant number of PCIe lanes to the mainstream chipsets will make HEDT less attractive to the enthusiast as its costs become increasingly bloated and its advantages over the mainstream diminish. Of course there will be people who will still stick with HEDT for the amount of CPU cores offered in this segment alone, but I can see several long time HEDT system users opting for more mainstream builds in the future.

    The platform does have 40 PCIe lanes in total. 16 of them are on the CPU's PCIe controller while the rest (24) are still constrained by the DMI 3.0 bus link between the chipset and the CPU. There are 30 HSIO lanes for the chipset, but that's a layer underneath the PCIe bus. You have no control over that allocation. The HSIO architecture was about giving the motherboard manufacturers greater flexibility in how they configure their designs.
     
    DrezKill, lostin3d and Nobu like this.
  33. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

    Messages:
    12,833
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Intel needs more PCI lanes on their mainstream CPUs
     
  34. ochadd

    ochadd Gawd

    Messages:
    861
    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    PCIe 4 will be [H]ard to resist. The bazillion people running quad core CPUs need more than cores. The idea of SSDs pushing 7 GBps, 10 gbps NICs, all the USB connectivity one could want... yummy.

    I wonder if someone buying 16+ cores and full PCIe 4 motherboard this year might just find that machine's useful life overlapping with the replacement of silicon.
     
  35. TheSlySyl

    TheSlySyl n00b

    Messages:
    32
    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Mmmm... more NVME drives, NVME all the drives....
     
  36. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,084
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    With all these rumors, people are going to be

    Yy7HC0b.gif

    if Ryzen 3000 doesn't perform the most awesomest blowjobs ever
     
  37. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,470
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    I'm not actually expecting a 15% performance increase. On the one hand, AMD has been much more realistic with its hype machine since Ryzen. However, between AMD and Intel's previous overestimation of their IPC improvements time and time again, I always remain skeptical.
     
    DrezKill likes this.
  38. Space_Ranger

    Space_Ranger Gawd

    Messages:
    630
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    I'll take a 10% increase in IPC Performance... An increase is an increase..
     
  39. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    53,470
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    It could even be less if the clock speeds go up enough to bring the CPU's closer to parity with Intel's clock speeds. I'd still call that a win.
     
    DrezKill, Space_Ranger and N4CR like this.
  40. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    27,717
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2000

    My thought process is that since they are upping the chipset lanes so significantly, they must be worried about the bandwidth sharing on those 4x lanes between the CPU and the Chipset.

    What was interesting to me is that they listed the total on the chipset as 40x, but that this includes the uplink lanes to the CPU. So, if you have 4x uplink ot the CPU, this leaves 36 lanes to be used by the chipset, etc. The only reason to express it this way would be if they were giving a choice.

    Maybe motherboard makers have some configuration options in implementation here.

    We know from before that existing Ryzen designs have 28 lanes, 24 available, and 4 that go to the chipset. This total of 28 is unlikely to change, since they are using the same socket, but maybe motherboard manufacturers can choose how many of them to use to link in the chipset.

    If they use 4x uplink lanes, this leaves 36 lanes available on the chipset to share the bandwith of the 4x. They get to share 4x Gen4 bandwidth ~ 8x Gen3 bandwidth ~ 16x Gen 2 bandwidth ~ 32x Gen 1 bandwidth.

    Or, if they use 8x uplink, this leaves 32 lanes available to share the bandwidth of the 8x. They get to share the bandwidth of 8x Gen 4 ~ 16x Gen 3 ~32x Gen 2 ~64x Gen 1....

    Maybe they are even able to use 12x for uplink (this is likely the max, as you would want to keep the 16x for the GPU.) This leaves 28x lanes available on the chipset, sharing the bandwidth of the 12x Gen4 ~24x Gen3 ~ 48x Gen2 ~96x Gen1...

    I can't imagine that they would limit 36x lanes off the chipset to the bandwidth of only 4x lanes upstream. So I'm thinking they have either upped the number of uplink lanes to a fixed 8x Gen4, or give some sort of option.

    I may be reading too much into very subtle choices of wording though.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019