x470 and x370 will not support pcie-4.0

Kind of BS though, to be honest. Most of the medium to higher end X470 boards have the power and quality to support it. If a manufacturer thinks it will be fine AMD shouldn't be removing it from the newer micro-code. To me this seems like a marketing tactic to force folks to upgrade down the line, who really, shouldn't have to.

I'll be keeping my BETA MSI X470 bios loaded if this is the case.
 
Meh, would have been limited to one or two slots anyway, and you'll likely want support for newer gpus eventually as well. I'll probably get a b550 eventually, or x570 when they go on sale. meanwhile I'll be rockin an x370 and glad to have better ipc, clocks, and memory support than my r5 1600 provides.
 
I don't really see the problem with this. The 3.0 x8 will still run fine for most GPUs which means there's still a lot of headroom left on the 3.0 x16. Not a lot of people running multi GPUs nowadays and I suppose most who run high end multi GPUs will not drop in a new CPU without replacing the board as well.
 
Great, I hope the top notch x470 boards get deep price cuts on the road to x570 hitting retail bc they're "not as good".

Middle of the road x470 hitting b450 price would be cool too.
 
A question on how PCIE is handled though...

Assuming the board and the CPU and do PCIE 4.0, and that PCIE3.0 is approximately but not equal to half of PCIE4.0 lane per lane...

CPU - PCIE4 compatible
MB - PCIE4 compatible
GPU - PCIE3 x16 compatible

Does that mean you still have an additional 8 lanes of PCIE 4.0 / or the equivalent of 16 lanes of PCIE3? Or does it not work like that?
 
mda said:
A question on how PCIE is handled though...

Assuming the board and the CPU and do PCIE 4.0, and that PCIE3.0 is approximately but not equal to half of PCIE4.0 lane per lane...

CPU - PCIE4 compatible
MB - PCIE4 compatible
GPU - PCIE3 x16 compatible

Does that mean you still have an additional 8 lanes of PCIE 4.0 / or the equivalent of 16 lanes of PCIE3? Or does it not work like that?
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It depends on how they did it, but I would assume it would be limited to the max number of lanes that the slot is configured for, in either gen 3 or gen 4. Reason being, gen3 -> gen4 speeds are achieved by faster switching frequency (possible due to new signaling techniques and a more robust, though still electrically compatible, bus design).

If you wanted to split 8 gen4 lanes into 16 gen3 for example, you would need a chip that can decode the signals and/or drop the signalling rate, and then push them out to the card. It would have to work in both directions, and allow pass through for gen 4 cards. Such a chip would probably be massive (like, southbridge size, or close to it), add board complexity, and in the end you probably wouldn't be much better off than if you just made it a x16 slot in the first place.

But if you have an x16 gen4 slot, you will have x16 gen 3 with a gen 3 pcie card, sure.
 
So in default (cheapest/easiest to implement) configuration, an x16 PCIE3.0 GPU will 'use' x16 PCIE4.0 lanes. At least this clears it up. Thanks!
 
somebrains said:
Great, I hope the top notch x470 boards get deep price cuts on the road to x570 hitting retail bc they're "not as good".

Middle of the road x470 hitting b450 price would be cool too.
Click to expand...

Smart folks will just buy a X470 board with current Zen2/PCIE 4.0 BIOS support. You'll only get 4.0 support in the first slot, but that's really all you need anyways for GPU purposes.

From what i'm tracking, all the current 1.0.0.1 Zen2 compatible microcode BIOS's out there in BETA release support this on X470.
 
Mchart said:
Smart folks will just buy a X470 board with current Zen2/PCIE 4.0 BIOS support. You'll only get 4.0 support in the first slot, but that's really all you need anyways for GPU purposes.

From what i'm tracking, all the current 1.0.0.1 Zen2 compatible microcode BIOS's out there in BETA release support this on X470.
Click to expand...

The eternal ? of whether you get 100% more performance by spending $200 vs $100 will spawn a lot of "what should I buy" CPU threads.

"Should I upgrade from my B350/450" is kinda always going on.
 
Mchart said:
Kind of BS though, to be honest. Most of the medium to higher end X470 boards have the power and quality to support it. If a manufacturer thinks it will be fine AMD shouldn't be removing it from the newer micro-code. To me this seems like a marketing tactic to force folks to upgrade down the line, who really, shouldn't have to.

I'll be keeping my BETA MSI X470 bios loaded if this is the case.
Click to expand...
And that same motherboard manufacturer doesn't want to sell you a brand spanking new motherboard ;) .
 
Mchart said:
Smart folks will just buy a X470 board with current Zen2/PCIE 4.0 BIOS support. You'll only get 4.0 support in the first slot, but that's really all you need anyways for GPU purposes.

From what i'm tracking, all the current 1.0.0.1 Zen2 compatible microcode BIOS's out there in BETA release support this on X470.
Click to expand...

ok real question time.

Do you get pci-e 4.0 x16? or pci-e 4.0 x8 on your pci-e 3.0 x16. I think only pci-e 4.0 x8. Because if thats the fact you are getting pci-e 4.0 x8 you are actually 500MB/s slower.
 
Mchart said:
Smart folks will just buy a X470 board with current Zen2/PCIE 4.0 BIOS support. You'll only get 4.0 support in the first slot, but that's really all you need anyways for GPU purposes.

From what i'm tracking, all the current 1.0.0.1 Zen2 compatible microcode BIOS's out there in BETA release support this on X470.
Click to expand...

Smarter folks will realize that by the time PCIe 4.0 makes a difference both X470 and X570 will be obsolete and it won't matter.
 
cyklondx said:
ok real question time.

Do you get pci-e 4.0 x16? or pci-e 4.0 x8 on your pci-e 3.0 x16. I think only pci-e 4.0 x8. Because if thats the fact you are getting pci-e 4.0 x8 you are actually 500MB/s slower.
Click to expand...


hard to say, a lot of x370 and x470 boards used some wacked out PCIE lane layouts and may be why AMD's just out right saying they won't officially support it on their end because ultimately it's up to the AIB's anyways. for example some boards use an x16/x4/x4 pcie 2.0/0 or x8/x8/x4/x4 or x8/x8/x8/0 or x8/x4/x4/x4 some used 2 pcie slots as pcie 3 and the bottom 2 as pcie 2, or they split the slots for double spacing with x8/x8 no full x16 electrical.. so for AMD to say "yes x370/470 will support PCIE 4.0" in my opinion would be a huge mistake on their part since then idiot customers will go to the motherboard manufactures bitching about why their board doesn't support it.. instead just officially say it's not supported and let the AIB's decide for themselves whether or not the board can support it. odds are it'll only be a handful of the super high end boards that will.

this is sort of similar to the PBO(performance boost overdrive) option, AMD officially dropped it from zen+(non threadripper) processors but the AIB's left it in their bios anyways.

i could be completely wrong about what's going to happen though but given asrock's still putting out alpha/beta bios with pcie 4.0 support i'm going to lean toward this potentially being what will happen.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
hard to say, a lot of x370 and x470 boards used some wacked out PCIE lane layouts and may be why AMD's just out right saying they won't officially support it on their end because ultimately it's up to the AIB's anyways. for example some boards use an x16/x4/x4 pcie 2.0/0 or x8/x8/x4/x4 or x8/x8/x8/0 or x8/x4/x4/x4 some used 2 pcie slots as pcie 3 and the bottom 2 as pcie 2, or they split the slots for double spacing with x8/x8 no full x16 electrical.. so for AMD to say "yes x370/470 will support PCIE 4.0" in my opinion would be a huge mistake on their part since then idiot customers will go to the motherboard manufactures bitching about why their board doesn't support it.. instead just officially say it's not supported and let the AIB's decide for themselves whether or not the board can support it. odds are it'll only be a handful of the super high end boards that will.

this is sort of similar to the PBO(performance boost overdrive) option, AMD officially dropped it from zen+(non threadripper) processors but the AIB's left it in their bios anyways.

i could be completely wrong about what's going to happen though but given asrock's still putting out alpha/beta bios with pcie 4.0 support i'm going to lean toward this potentially being what will happen.
Click to expand...

I've read up a little on it - and asked msi bios dev, and it seems that it will have partial pci-e 4.0 support 400 series mobo's. They are tinkering with option that will allow you to enable pci-e 4.0 x16 on a first slot pci-e 3.0 x16 only; while 2nd slot will be disabled and other ports will still run @ 3.0 spec.
(take it with grain of polonium)
 
cyklondx said:
I've read up a little on it - and asked msi bios dev, and it seems that it will have partial pci-e 4.0 support 400 series mobo's. They are tinkering with option that will allow you to enable pci-e 4.0 x16 on a first slot pci-e 3.0 x16 only; while 2nd slot will be disabled and other ports will still run @ 3.0 spec.
(take it with grain of polonium)
Click to expand...

The problem is that if/when AMD pushes out new microcode for the board builders to use, it could be disabled there. So it would be wise to be very careful about updating your BIOS further on X470 boards at this point.
 
Mchart said:
The problem is that if/when AMD pushes out new microcode for the board builders to use, it could be disabled there. So it would be wise to be very careful about updating your BIOS further on X470 boards at this point.
Click to expand...
The microcode updates aren't available right away, and some manufacturers of boards will delay it for even couple months. I wouldn't be afraid of AMD blocking/disabling anything - it will be solely on the mobo bios teams.
 
Mchart said:
The problem is that if/when AMD pushes out new microcode for the board builders to use, it could be disabled there. So it would be wise to be very careful about updating your BIOS further on X470 boards at this point.
Click to expand...

You're overthinking this. At this point PCIe 4.0 is marketing. You'll probably be better off with a tweaked newer AGESA in newer bioses than you'd ever be with PCIe 4.0 in older boards.
 
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