X1800XT improving quite a bit vs 512meg GTX

I'm really NOT trying to create a flame war whatsoever, its just nice to see some good competition. Remember, competition is GOOD people! I've owned cards from Nvidia and Ati. I really don't care which one comes out on top. I just buy whatever is best (performance and price)
 
Simple, ATI has truly worked on good Super AA modes (NOTE: THESE TESTS ARE ONLY FOR DUAL GFX CARDS SETUPS). When ATI announced it, NVIDIA enabled it in their drivers just for it to be there

I would take resolution > AA anyday
 
I have to look at avaliability. If I want a card I want to beable to order it today so right now I am in between a 7800GTX and the X1800XT becase they are both avaliable. I am thinking I will have to put off my purchase because of avalibility.
 
I really want to like the X1800XT, but my problem isn't the card, its what you can plug it into. In order to use "SLI" you have to buy a motherboard with the new Radeon bridge chipset right? So you couldn't use X1800XT on something like the Asus A8N32-SLI...which is an awsome motherboard.

Now if I have this all wrong and you can infact plug it in, then I would be very willing to do dual X180XT 512's.
 
I really want to like the X1800XT, but my problem isn't the card, its what you can plug it into. In order to use "SLI" you have to buy a motherboard with the new Radeon bridge chipset right? So you couldn't use X1800XT on something like the Asus A8N32-SLI...which is an awsome motherboard.
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in order to use a crossfire set up you need a crossfire enabled mother board, same with SLI, regardless of the nf4 chipsets owning, it doesn't mean that ATI doesn't have a very awsome chipset of their own, take a look at the RD480, the board is a beast, and around the corner we have the RD580

right now we can't complain about motherboards from both manufacturers
 
Man I totally agree ATI is coming on strong.

Really you have to start from the presupposition that the 512 GTX is a gimmick card IMO. It's to expensive and unavialable to be a viable option. It mostly just was released to win benchmarks at .com sites.

Once you do that and realize the only real fight isX1800XT vs 256 GTX, ATI acquits themselves very well. I saw X1800 XT's are down to 469 on newegg and falling by the day. The cheapest GTX was 449..so you pay like 20-30 extra which is probably way less than the cost of the extra 256 MB of RAM on the X1800. Plus the X1800's seem a bit more forward looking. And in many cases faster.

For a generation where they were widely believed to have screwed up royally, ATI has quietly done very well imo.

Even if you compare a X1800XT vs a 512 GTX, ATI wins in a few games, Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, and FEAR.

On the other hand though, Nvidia has the more well rounded performance in things like RTS games, and ATI really has no effective counterpart in the 300 range to the 7800 GT, X1800 XL's are still too overpriced.

I think ATI's 90nm edge is showing through right now though, and I think Nvidia is struggling with it. The fact ATI is about to launch a new part and Nvidia is lagging on their's is more proof imo.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
Simple, ATI has truly worked on good Super AA modes (NOTE: THESE TESTS ARE ONLY FOR DUAL GFX CARDS SETUPS). When ATI announced it, NVIDIA enabled it in their drivers just for it to be there

I would take resolution > AA anyday
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read this:
In a graphically-intensive game like F.E.A.R for instance, at 1280x960, performance is nearly cut in half for the GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB SLI setup, from 93 fps to just 42. Meanwhile, the X1800 XT CrossFire is cranking along at 51 fps, a drop of just 16%, or 10 fps!
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its nice to see that latest drivers are used and good image comparison. I knew that X1800XT was faster then GTX512MB i was just waiting for someone to prove me right.

This is a nice review especally that X1900 series reviews will be comming out in next few weeks.
 
did you not read what i wrote?

ATI implemented Super AA with hardware acceleration for it, NVIDIA simple added the algorithms to their drivers
 
how do I know if the motherboard supports ATI's SLI?

I was going to get a new DFI Lanparty I am building a new computer....

I read about hte chipset but do any NF4 boards support it because I am not seeing anything...
 
Well I sure hope in the future we can have Universal SLI. I feel the nForce 4 is a better tester motherboard than the ATI setup, but I really like ATI graphics cards. If we could just have boards from ATI and nVidia that would run a Universal SLI. I know that I can pop a single ATI card into an nForce Board.
 
right now you can, its just a lock in the drivers that is preventing us from using it, i believe, which to me is a peice of crap, i'd love to see how well SLI will work on a crossfire motherboard and crossfire on a SLI motherboard
 
heres a good question. why did ATI have to be retarded and make us buy 2 diff cards for x1800x_ crossfire, 1 of which is harder to get than the other instead of connecting them interally with 2 of the same card(hint no master card in use) such as SLI

YES i know that the lowerend can do this but the low end suck compared to x1800
 
Dark_fire said:
heres a good question. why did ATI have to be retarded and make us buy 2 diff cards for x1800x_ crossfire, 1 of which is harder to get than the other instead of connecting them interally with 2 of the same card(hint no master card in use) such as SLI

YES i know that the lowerend can do this but the low end suck compared to x1800
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Crossfire is still somewhat new. SLi wasnt that great when it first came out also. Hopfully ATi will improve on crossfire in the X1900 cards. The X1800 has a lot of improvement in terms of drivers. Give ATi a few more months and X1800XT should be a clear winner but ATi just didnt come in soon enough. ATi did set up a good future path with the X1800. I wouldnt be suprise if X1900 takes crown next gen but who knows.

Also res vs AA. I bet you use both as much as you can. Thats pretty much what everyone is after now.
 
ATi won't get anywhere if they don't nail the actual market for their products. They can sell a ton of X1800XT's but as long as they're getting their asses beaten to the wall in the integrated and sub-$100 videocard market, they're going to run out of money for the R&D costs on these super advanced videocards.
 
heres a good question. why did ATI have to be retarded and make us buy 2 diff cards for x1800x_ crossfire, 1 of which is harder to get than the other instead of connecting them interally with 2 of the same card(hint no master card in use) such as SLI

YES i know that the lowerend can do this but the low end suck compared to x1800
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i think it was their only solution to SLI back whent he X800's and 6800's were duking it out, when nvidia released their PCIe products they had the bridge ability, and then slammed SLI on the market all of a sudden, i think ATI wanted to compete with the performance and created (i guess to them) the only way they could get their cards to work in tandem

don't know why they put this in with the X1800's and i don't see the X1900's changing, but i do hope to dear god the R600's change this as thats when i'm looking into duel VC solutions
 
Dark_fire said:
heres a good question. why did ATI have to be retarded and make us buy 2 diff cards for x1800x_ crossfire, 1 of which is harder to get than the other instead of connecting them interally with 2 of the same card(hint no master card in use) such as SLI

YES i know that the lowerend can do this but the low end suck compared to x1800
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The reason ATI did this is because from what it looks like they can't figure out a better way than Nvidia's. ATI has probably done some odd things in regards to the master cards and perhaps the motherboards. Nvidia seems to have it in such a way to where it's mostly software controlled to an extent not to mention Nvidia's driver teams has been the best from a long time they really do amazing things. ATI just kind of through extra at it and patched things together. ATI isn't new to it entirely they have the AIW line among other things.

Remember though ATI is a new player to this game while Nvidia has been out here for a long time in regards to dual cards.

Nforce 4 is outdated compared but useable and comparing a vastly older chipset and cards against something new that should be faster but isn't is a huge blunder.

Hopefully ATI fixes up crossfire soon and not to mention starts releasing quality drivers near Nvidia quality. BF2 shadow bug and again I see ATI is almost nigh unplayable with DAoC which isn't something new that game always had problems with ATI based cards :(.
 
YmkFX said:
ATi won't get anywhere if they don't nail the actual market for their products. They can sell a ton of X1800XT's but as long as they're getting their asses beaten to the wall in the integrated and sub-$100 videocard market, they're going to run out of money for the R&D costs on these super advanced videocards.
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Yeh, bullshit. They are making plenty of money. It most likely costs them 30$ to make a radeon 9600, and there selling a load of em.
 
The image quality seems about on par, i really cant say which one looks better. The FPS however is better on the X1800XT at higher res. this is especially noticeable in the BF2 benchmark. I really like how ATI can stand up to the 7800GTX 512 and are making the X1800XT avalible better. At higher res. we really see how most of the load is taken off the CPU and put on the video card where the X1800XT shines.
 
Dark_fire said:
heres a good question. why did ATI have to be retarded and make us buy 2 diff cards for x1800x_ crossfire, 1 of which is harder to get than the other instead of connecting them interally with 2 of the same card(hint no master card in use) such as SLI

YES i know that the lowerend can do this but the low end suck compared to x1800
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ATI was not retarted. They had a design choice. In order this dual card thing ATI wanted to use a speical composite engine. If you look at the latest FS results you can see that their solution is more efficent with high AA/AF settings. Since it takes years to get this as a designed part of the cores, they had no choice but to use an extranal part.

So now you come to thier choice. Do they make this part a standard on all of the cards? Which means each card will cost more and is that fair to make users pay for this extra cost if they will never use xfire? This would eliminate the need for a speical part. Also in theory if you already had an x800xl, you then don't need to buy two new cards, just get one x800 class master card and your all set.

I am not saying that they made the right call. Just that they had some reasons why and in part those reasons seem valid....
 
Jbirney said:
ATI was not retarted. They had a design choice. In order this dual card thing ATI wanted to use a speical composite engine. If you look at the latest FS results you can see that their solution is more efficent with high AA/AF settings. Since it takes years to get this as a designed part of the cores, they had no choice but to use an extranal part.

So now you come to thier choice. Do they make this part a standard on all of the cards? Which means each card will cost more and is that fair to make users pay for this extra cost if they will never use xfire? This would eliminate the need for a speical part. Also in theory if you already had an x800xl, you then don't need to buy two new cards, just get one x800 class master card and your all set.

I am not saying that they made the right call. Just that they had some reasons why and in part those reasons seem valid....
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How can you say CF is more effecient then SLi when the base cards it already shows ATi being more efficient with AA. Its quite a misight if you guys aren't looking at that, its a pretty important piece of the pie.
 
From a hardware point of view SLi is much simpler and just plain better than Crossfire. Easier to setup and connect and much less cable mess.
 
Endurancevm said:
The image quality seems about on par, i really cant say which one looks better. The FPS however is better on the X1800XT at higher res. this is especially noticeable in the BF2 benchmark. I really like how ATI can stand up to the 7800GTX 512 and are making the X1800XT avalible better. At higher res. we really see how most of the load is taken off the CPU and put on the video card where the X1800XT shines.
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The ATI cards X1800XT's look more washed out and dim on a 2405 than the 512mb GTX's as for imaging other I can't say I actually notice anything but in general the Nvidia cards seem to have a sharper picture on the 2405 LCD and are brighter/crisp. The drivers and support are the only major difference I see as Nvidia seems to be best here in this case.
 
Ultra Wide said:
From a hardware point of view SLi is much simpler and just plain better than Crossfire. Easier to setup and connect and much less cable mess.
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I couldn't have said that in a simpler more straight forward way than what you did.
 
You say ATI's solution isnt as good, yet the crossfired X1800's stomp all over the GTX512 SLi, and your argument is that it sucks becuase of a cable? Ok..........
 
yea the test. sure. but my favorite site to compare ati to nvidia is this, and really, there is SO LITTLE DIFERANCE its insane, just find your game, compare it, and pick which card works best.

i play hl2, which the 7800gtx wins by a hair.

heres the site
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/

srry i got the exact page bookmarked on my other comp, but just look around theyve for plenty of good stuff.

and crossfire vs sli once again, difference of hairs. in some areas crossfire performs better and in some sli does, you can find countless sites saying ones better and then find another site that says the first site has it all wrong.

and yea i have owned a grand total of 2 ati cards. one X700PRO and one 9600se. both have/had problems running games and overheating, and both have/had problems with direct X, which is why i prefer n-vidia,

yea and this was on some other dudes post

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_super_aa_vs_nvidia_sli_aa/page2.asp

there are 2 pics one from crossfire x1800xt and one from sli 7800gtx
dude. if you complain about either of those pictures as beeing "n vidias aa mode sux" or "atis res sux" then you spoiled little turd, stop taking my oxigen.

i mean really when you drop that much money on a comp your gonna get a good picture.

Ati vs N-vidia. = Coke Vs Pepsi, yea you can taste the difference, but is it really that much?
 
HybridHB said:
You say ATI's solution isnt as good, yet the crossfired X1800's stomp all over the GTX512 SLi, and your argument is that it sucks becuase of a cable? Ok..........
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I haven't seen anything leading to the XT's even coming close to the 512mb GTX cards in SLI. Doubt they ever will either and please no weird odd firingsquad links the only time I ever heard of that site is when someone that prefers ATI links to them which is fine for "their" opinion.

[H] real world results put the ATI solution at competitive albeit at lower quality which seems to be more fitting comparing my cards to my friends XT.

It's ok the X1900XTX should be slightly faster than the 512mb GTX even though it's even newer :). You can enjoy in that fact.
 
Dont mistake me for a !!!!!!, as thats obviously you. Your nitpicking small details to justify your setup. Everything you have said is subjective like "ohhh nvidia drivers are better" and "the colors are crisper on nvidia cards". Can you prove any of that? Make sure its not linked to a site that prefers nvidia either.... Im not taking sides, but theres some questionable comments in this thread.
 
HybridHB said:
Dont mistake me for a !!!!!!, as thats obviously you. Your nitpicking small details to justify your setup. Everything you have said is subjective like "ohhh nvidia drivers are better" and "the colors are crisper on nvidia cards". Can you prove any of that? Make sure its not linked to a site that prefers nvidia either.... Im not taking sides, but theres some questionable comments in this thread.
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Right but my post looks vaguely familiar does it not?
 
razor1 said:
How can you say CF is more effecient then SLi when the base cards it already shows ATi being more efficient with AA. Its quite a misight if you guys aren't looking at that, its a pretty important piece of the pie.
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The 1800xt looses to a single 512GTX in AA when using just a single card. But when you double them up, then the 1800xt pulls ahead expsically when you use the Super AA modes (higher than x6). The CF has the advantage of having dedicated hardware (the composite engine/IC) to make it more efficent.
 
Humble_Magii said:
The ATI cards X1800XT's look more washed out and dim on a 2405 than the 512mb GTX's as for imaging other I can't say I actually notice anything but in general the Nvidia cards seem to have a sharper picture on the 2405 LCD and are brighter/crisp. The drivers and support are the only major difference I see as Nvidia seems to be best here in this case.
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nVidia definitely has better Linux drivers, and I'm sure their SLI drivers are more refined, but from just a base Windows driver standpoint, nVidia's drivers are hardly superior, and I would even say slightly inferior.
 
SOMEBODY PLEASE RECOGNIZE SLI AA/SUPER AA ARE NOT SIMPLE HIGHER AA LEVELS

modes intended for users who use lower resolution, and a dual-video card solution

NVIDIA has not integrated SLI-AA hardware acceleration into their video cards, while ATI did, because when Crossfire was first announced, they touted that feature over something NVidia didn't have. NV then added it in their driver releases simply to say they had it as well
 
you have to buy a mastercard, new mobo, and dongle to go with your x1800 to get CF. You are also limited to 1600x1200 60hz (right? I remember that, but maybe that was just with the x850 series. I haven't looked into x1800s deeply b/c I don't plan on buying one). SLI is much better, even if you have crappy "16x" AA performance. Seriously, who needs more than 8x AA? 8x already makes stuff look smooth as h*ll, if you don't see that, get up to 1600x1200 or higher already.
 
I love how everyone is calling this ATi's SLi, when it's not SLi at all, doesn't even work the same way :p .
 
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