WOW shamans reaction to mages getting imp. hero/bloodlust

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As someone who plays a mage exclusively, I'm sitting back and enjoying the reaction. On the other hand, it kinda sucks that one of our 3 new spells will be one that already exists. Sure we get a personal movement bonus, but it'll probably be underutilized in PvE.

By the way, for anyone who isn't aware (though most WoW players should know this by know), Blizzard has released new talent/mastery/spell previews of all the classes for Cataclysm except for Paladins (still pending for next week).

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24038460683&sid=1
 

spugnor

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Yeah. Pretty soon it won't matter what class you play, they will all be exactly the same. Another step in the wrong direction for blizz, IMHO.
 

Shalafi

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I'm glad I no longer play this game, I quit in August and haven't looked back.

It seems like the dumbing down (not that it was ever really smart to begin with) of WoW to the lowest possible common denominator continues unabated.

Soon, warriors can shoot fireballs and rogues can cast heals on everyone and hunters can summon Infernals

GG blizz

changes like this do not make me want to play the game again, just the opposite, big sign that says

STAY AWAY, RETARDS AHEAD
 

polydiol

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I play a mage - abilities sound interesting, especially wall of fog.

Will wait for the expansion to pass judgement.
 

SLiGuy

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Homogenization FTL. I still want to return for Cataclysm, but whether or not I will depends on how the rest of the game pans out. One of the thing I hated so much about WotLK is how easy they made 5-mans. Where's the CC? Everything is an AoE faceroll fest now with little to no skill required.
 

noIinteam

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I'm all for Aoe faceroll on trash. Makes the instance much faster to complete. I heard though more emphasis on cc will be in the next expansion.

For the Homogenization, I'm guessing blizzard wants us everyone access to everything. My guild had problems getting shamans so stuff like this helps it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsT_xqllW5g&annotation_id=annotation_596387&feature=iv

Stuff like that happen a lot in vanilla. Today, you can go on but back then, it was harder to venture forth with one less person. Well, in my experience anyway.
 
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is it as good as bloodlust?

It should be equivalent with a small personal movement bonus tacked on. They both share the same debuff (Sated/Exhaustion).

I think Blizzard decided to do this because Shaman were the only class with this major spell. A while back, they argued that, although BL is a very nice spell to have, its not "mandatory" and you shouldn't have to go out to find a Shaman to fulfill that role. However, that argument wasn't very convincing to most players, and the "need" for a Shaman for BL continues to this day. I guess that, instead of trying to argue its importance, they decided to give it to more than one class.

In my opinion, homogenization isn't a bad thing. In large scale raiding, it just creates a lot of redundancy (lots of classes with the same raid buffs that don't stack on each other), so all the bases get covered easily. However, in a smaller scale, it's a pain to "require" 1 of 10 classes to be present.
 

bpizzle1

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IMO they needed to do something about bloodlust, but this may have not been the best way to do it. Personally, I was thinking they should have just brought back the haste drums. The problem was bloodlust is an extremely powerful raid tool that can easily be the difference when it comes to killing a new boss or not. This essentially forced guilds to bring a shaman to the raid...exactly the opposite of the "bring the person, not the class" stance that they have taken since WOTLK. In fairness, nearly all 25man raids probably had a shaman, but the issue comes up as a bigger problem in 10man raids. I can attest to this seeing as the group I usually run hard modes in ICC10 with didn't have a shaman until 2 weeks ago. Having the bloodlust has definitely made a noticeable difference in the smoothness of our hard mode attempts.
 

dara

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Whether or not this a good change is completely irrelevant. Blizzard just kicked the worst class in the game in the balls while they were down.

The Cata shaman nerfs are almost unbelievable. RIP DPS Shaman.
 
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IMO they needed to do something about bloodlust, but this may have not been the best way to do it. Personally, I was thinking they should have just brought back the haste drums. The problem was bloodlust is an extremely powerful raid tool that can easily be the difference when it comes to killing a new boss or not. This essentially forced guilds to bring a shaman to the raid...exactly the opposite of the "bring the person, not the class" stance that they have taken since WOTLK. In fairness, nearly all 25man raids probably had a shaman, but the issue comes up as a bigger problem in 10man raids. I can attest to this seeing as the group I usually run hard modes in ICC10 with didn't have a shaman until 2 weeks ago. Having the bloodlust has definitely made a noticeable difference in the smoothness of our hard mode attempts.

I think that was what they were aiming for. Normal modes were easy enough that you didn't *have* to have BL to finish it. All content can be "experienced" without the absolute necessity of requiring a specific class. Hard modes require more specialization so BL becomes extremely valuable. I think the "bring the player, not the class" philosophy only extends to clearing the instance at all, not under any and all difficulties. Your own personal experience seems to reflect this much.
 

tybert7

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Whether or not this a good change is completely irrelevant. Blizzard just kicked the worst class in the game in the balls while they were down.

The Cata shaman nerfs are almost unbelievable. RIP DPS Shaman.

As a mage, I am not quite satisfied.


I want your haste air totem and your wrath totem. And that thunderclap move you all do. That will be good. For now...
 

Trimlock

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Whether or not this a good change is completely irrelevant. Blizzard just kicked the worst class in the game in the balls while they were down.

The Cata shaman nerfs are almost unbelievable. RIP DPS Shaman.

haven't been paying attention to anything new in the Cata expantion for shaman's, I played a Shaman from day one (with a warlock) through right before they released Ice Crow Citadel, I feel really bad for what they have to put up with.

I understand that Blizzard doesn't want to give them the best DPS, or best healing over other more "pure" classes, but honestly they don't give that good of buffs or provide any useful utility anymore, they are stomped in everyway possible for PVP (it is very sad state for PVP) and are one upped on every aspect for PVE. When I did raid I was top 5 DPS I never reached #1 but out of the other melee dps I had top AP and the Fury War who had 1.5% crit over my 39% already ... always out did me on DPS and by a decent amount too(both of us had maxed +hit, +expertise).

Nothing will ever take the fun experience of solo'ing with a shaman, they are simply the most fun to level and are really good at mat farming.

So when I come back I'll keep him for running through all the high end stuff really quick then start something new again, I really want to run a goblin something.
 

sparks

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everyone gets heroism in the expansion.
I just saw the one for druid and it says it stacks with shamans

the devs all have a class they work on. The Shaman dev got transfered 3 yrs ago...SO shaman had NO DEV to work, test or petition for them.
We got some help last spring. NOW WE GET F'd again...figures
 

Cintirich

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I just finished looking over the Druid Class Changes over in the Cataclysm forums and no mention was made about Druid heroism or equivalent. Care to cite your source?
 

TheCowOfNow

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As a long time shaman player can't say I'm all that worried or upset for pve purposes. I rarely find that BL is the only good thing a shaman can bring to a raid. I've been resto for as long as i can recall and now that the mana regen shit is being fixed (so we all don't have infinite mana) mana tide will become a more useful shaman ability. In vanilla WoW that was the only way to get into MC or something.

We'll see I guess. Again, nothing I can really do about it so why worry, its not like shaman are going to not get into raids and such.


I guess in pvp, arenas specifically, we're going to be more useless, since shaman get absolutely shit on. That one spell where you can cast while moving sounds good in theory and if they get spirit link in there maybe... but we'll see.
 

zoobaby

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As a long time shaman player can't say I'm all that worried or upset for pve purposes. I rarely find that BL is the only good thing a shaman can bring to a raid. I've been resto for as long as i can recall and now that the mana regen shit is being fixed (so we all don't have infinite mana) mana tide will become a more useful shaman ability. In vanilla WoW that was the only way to get into MC or something.

We'll see I guess. Again, nothing I can really do about it so why worry, its not like shaman are going to not get into raids and such.


I guess in pvp, arenas specifically, we're going to be more useless, since shaman get absolutely shit on. That one spell where you can cast while moving sounds good in theory and if they get spirit link in there maybe... but we'll see.

It means that shamans will be limited to a resto build for raiding. Chain heal spamming gets old after while.
 

soul555top

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I don't really get the "dumbing down" stuff. They are making the game more accessible and easy to understand for people who are new to the game and casual gamers, while also trying to keep the more challenging and difficult stuff for the hardcore players. Sure, lot's of hardcore players gripe about r-tards in full epics, but I always thought of that as people who have been playing too long looking for a reason to leave the game. Seriously, you've played the game for 5 years, I would hope the shit is easy for you.

That being said, only 1 or 2 guilds have killed the Lich King 25 Heroic (I play this game once or twice a month, but still follow the news) so it's obviously not as cakewalk as you think. Also, CC in heroics, are you serious? Are you telling me that you are upset about the streamlining of 5 man dungeons? lol. If you want to "experience" dungeons, run them on alts or do them naked (in game or irl) on your main.

I personally don't have the time to play as a dedicated raider anymore (work/school) which kills the fun for me, which was the team aspect of things. Never cared much for the social aspect of it aside from my real friends.

I am also willing to bet that a large portion of the Shaman who are complaining didn't even play the class before it had BL/Hero. I did, and the game could use another class with that buff.
 

noIinteam

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I don't really get the "dumbing down" stuff. They are making the game more accessible and easy to understand for people who are new to the game and casual gamers, while also trying to keep the more challenging and difficult stuff for the hardcore players. Sure, lot's of hardcore players gripe about r-tards in full epics, but I always thought of that as people who have been playing too long looking for a reason to leave the game. Seriously, you've played the game for 5 years, I would hope the shit is easy for you.

That being said, only 1 or 2 guilds have killed the Lich King 25 Heroic (I play this game once or twice a month, but still follow the news) so it's obviously not as cakewalk as you think. Also, CC in heroics, are you serious? Are you telling me that you are upset about the streamlining of 5 man dungeons? lol. If you want to "experience" dungeons, run them on alts or do them naked (in game or irl) on your main.

I personally don't have the time to play as a dedicated raider anymore (work/school) which kills the fun for me, which was the team aspect of things. Never cared much for the social aspect of it aside from my real friends.

I am also willing to bet that a large portion of the Shaman who are complaining didn't even play the class before it had BL/Hero. I did, and the game could use another class with that buff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

Replace practice with trash mobs
 

Ocellaris

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I don't really get the "dumbing down" stuff. They are making the game more accessible and easy to understand for people who are new to the game and casual gamers, while also trying to keep the more challenging and difficult stuff for the hardcore players. Sure, lot's of hardcore players gripe about r-tards in full epics, but I always thought of that as people who have been playing too long looking for a reason to leave the game. Seriously, you've played the game for 5 years, I would hope the shit is easy for you.

While they are making the game more accessible, I completely disagree that they are making the game easier to understand. If anything, I think people are getting significantly worse at the game and have no clue what to do since by making the game accessible, they removed the "Learn how to play" aspect. Back when things we more moderately challenging, I think people understood their roles much better. Rogue know how to sap and CC, Hunters knew how to lay traps and make pulls, DPS paid attention to aggro, tanks were forced to pay attention, healers knew what their niche was. It was all fairly cut and dry. Go try some random level 70 to 77 dungeons now, and a lot of the people are *completely* clueless about what their role is other than face rolling on the keyboard. If they game was so easy to understand, people would not be playing like link a bunch of drunks or completely implode when one little thing goes wrong.

That being said, only 1 or 2 guilds have killed the Lich King 25 Heroic (I play this game once or twice a month, but still follow the news) so it's obviously not as cakewalk as you think. Also, CC in heroics, are you serious? Are you telling me that you are upset about the streamlining of 5 man dungeons? lol. If you want to "experience" dungeons, run them on alts or do them naked (in game or irl) on your main.

Well first up I think the whole Heroic raiding situation is a bunch of crap. I would much rather see new content to challenge people aside from the current situation of making the content fairly easy, then adding difficulty through achievements and optional game modes.

Right now, dungeons are setup only for face rolling. I have leveled a few characters to 80 (including recently) and I can assure you that no one gives a shit about the dungeons aside from stomping through them, AOE tanking everything, and getting loot. Its reward for no effort other than logging on. I played some LOTRO and the dungeons in there all felt pretty epic. People had to work as a group to get through in a reasonable manner. I do not see this as being a bad thing. I think much of WoW currently is a bunch of people playing because everyone else plays it (which is why I play it as well).

Also I don't buy the fact that Blizzard says Cataclysm will bring back CC (someone noted this earlier). They said that for LK, did not happen. They said that for the new ICC 5 mans, did not happen...

I personally don't have the time to play as a dedicated raider anymore (work/school) which kills the fun for me, which was the team aspect of things. Never cared much for the social aspect of it aside from my real friends.

I do not play a lot myself, however my 10 man group runs regularly (one night a week) and we managed to get down Arthas last weekend. So now the only thing left for me to do is to add in some artificial difficulty and flex my e-peen on hard modes? That is only playing seriously one night a week and I already expired all the content, bleh.
 

Trimlock

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the intelligence of players or actual ability to play their characters in anything other then the easiest of situations are very lacking...
 

soul555top

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While they are making the game more accessible, I completely disagree that they are making the game easier to understand. If anything, I think people are getting significantly worse at the game and have no clue what to do since by making the game accessible, they removed the "Learn how to play" aspect. Back when things we more moderately challenging, I think people understood their roles much better. Rogue know how to sap and CC, Hunters knew how to lay traps and make pulls, DPS paid attention to aggro, tanks were forced to pay attention, healers knew what their niche was. It was all fairly cut and dry. Go try some random level 70 to 77 dungeons now, and a lot of the people are *completely* clueless about what their role is other than face rolling on the keyboard. If they game was so easy to understand, people would not be playing like link a bunch of drunks or completely implode when one little thing goes wrong.

CC, seriously? We are talking about CC? People just don't give a fuck anymore. Look at a hardmode guild, their rogues know how to sap, their hunters know how to trap and kite and pull, tanks/heals are on point etc. Seriously, you saw some retards in a pug 5 man or LFG raid, wow. Big news there.

Well first up I think the whole Heroic raiding situation is a bunch of crap. I would much rather see new content to challenge people aside from the current situation of making the content fairly easy, then adding difficulty through achievements and optional game modes.

Totally agree, I never liked the hard mode system. However, I think the hundreds, if not thousands, of hardmode guilds would disagree and say its fine.

Right now, dungeons are setup only for face rolling. I have leveled a few characters to 80 (including recently) and I can assure you that no one gives a shit about the dungeons aside from stomping through them, AOE tanking everything, and getting loot. Its reward for no effort other than logging on. I played some LOTRO and the dungeons in there all felt pretty epic. People had to work as a group to get through in a reasonable manner. I do not see this as being a bad thing. I think much of WoW currently is a bunch of people playing because everyone else plays it (which is why I play it as well).

Also I don't buy the fact that Blizzard says Cataclysm will bring back CC (someone noted this earlier). They said that for LK, did not happen. They said that for the new ICC 5 mans, did not happen...

I do not play a lot myself, however my 10 man group runs regularly (one night a week) and we managed to get down Arthas last weekend. So now the only thing left for me to do is to add in some artificial difficulty and flex my e-peen on hard modes? That is only playing seriously one night a week and I already expired all the content, bleh.


So in essence, you saying the game is lame now and you dont like it, yet you still play? Also, you think it's all tards and easy mode, yet you don't do the hard stuff? /boggle
 

JCDenton

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Woah, wtf happened? I quit WOW a long time ago but shamans definitely weren't the worst class when I played.

I guess it was around the time the PVP point system first got introduced, but I remember dominating as a shaman, like top 5 on the server. It wasn't even funny...I was elemental/enhancement spec with a ridiculously high amount of armor/hp, and I would go around killing everyone with my windfury Hand of Edward the Odd, healing to full everytime it procced and zapping rogues with my Force Reactive Disc aoe everytime I got hit (which was actually quite damaging with spell damage + gear).

Has the game really changed that much? I remember being able to slaughter multiple people simultaneously and pretty much always having the most dangerous toon on the battlefield.
 

Ocellaris

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CC, seriously? We are talking about CC? People just don't give a fuck anymore. Look at a hardmode guild, their rogues know how to sap, their hunters know how to trap and kite and pull, tanks/heals are on point etc. Seriously, you saw some retards in a pug 5 man or LFG raid, wow. Big news there.

Totally agree, I never liked the hard mode system. However, I think the hundreds, if not thousands, of hardmode guilds would disagree and say its fine.

I am in a hard mode guild, though my personal involvement is limited (I used to run the guild with 2 other people). We were among the top US guilds when Sunwell launched and the game was legitimately hard :D I still do not agree with the whole thing Blizzard has implemented current, and I can very much say its for epeen and achievements to most people. I very much prefer tiered content like WoW Classic or BC where people always had something to work toward and would move up through raids. I liked that system a lot more than no atunements, no raid keys, and no real progression. Now we have people that level to 80 and are in ICC25 less than 2 weeks later. They skip Naxx, skip Ulduar, run ToC25 + VoA25 just to lootwhore then get showered with ICC25 loot.

So in essence, you saying the game is lame now and you dont like it, yet you still play? Also, you think it's all tards and easy mode, yet you don't do the hard stuff? /boggle

I am saying I would not play WoW if a few of my friends left. I think there are more rewarding games out there for actual game play and challenge.
 
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Woah, wtf happened? I quit WOW a long time ago but shamans definitely weren't the worst class when I played.

I guess it was around the time the PVP point system first got introduced, but I remember dominating as a shaman, like top 5 on the server. It wasn't even funny...I was elemental/enhancement spec with a ridiculously high amount of armor/hp, and I would go around killing everyone with my windfury Hand of Edward the Odd, healing to full everytime it procced and zapping rogues with my Force Reactive Disc aoe everytime I got hit (which was actually quite damaging with spell damage + gear).

Has the game really changed that much? I remember being able to slaughter multiple people simultaneously and pretty much always having the most dangerous toon on the battlefield.

The thing about the internet is that people tend to be drama queens. :D Shaman are doing OK, but since they're "hybrids," they do inherently less damage than "pure" dps classes. The word "hybrid" is obviously a misnomer since they're not doing 2 or more jobs simultaneously, but rather can fulfill 2 or more roles at a given time. They fear that, the fact that they're the only ones who bring this buff, no one will want to bring a Shaman in Cataclysm now that Mages have it. They *still* have exclusive totem buffs though, such as Windfury Totem and Wrath of Air Totem. Those currently stack with other haste effects like Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution, etc.

If you look over the Shaman preview for Cataclysm, they got among the best and most interesting new stuff. But all of that somehow got overshadowed by the fact that a single class will get a spell that is currently exclusive to them.

My second and only lvl 80 Horde alt is a Shaman BTW. Not that I care about it, but I'm not exactly a Shaman hater either. :)
 

TheCowOfNow

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It means that shamans will be limited to a resto build for raiding. Chain heal spamming gets old after while.

Fair enough, and I agree its shitty that that may end up being the case. I've always been resto, I plan on being resto forever, I like healing. Any class that I have that can heal, is specced to heal.

That being said, not having the option to dps is terrible. I don't think it will be the case, but yea the mage BL is going to make a dps shaman much less valuable. At least elemental ones. But there are still some buffs and what not that dps shaman provide that I think are nice to have. Maybe not good enough to need a shaman in a 10 man, but in a 25 man I think a shaman or two are great to have around.
 

SixtyWattMan

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I don't really get the "dumbing down" stuff. They are making the game more accessible and easy to understand for people who are new to the game and casual gamers, while also trying to keep the more challenging and difficult stuff for the hardcore players. Sure, lot's of hardcore players gripe about r-tards in full epics, but I always thought of that as people who have been playing too long looking for a reason to leave the game. Seriously, you've played the game for 5 years, I would hope the shit is easy for you.

That being said, only 1 or 2 guilds have killed the Lich King 25 Heroic (I play this game once or twice a month, but still follow the news) so it's obviously not as cakewalk as you think. Also, CC in heroics, are you serious? Are you telling me that you are upset about the streamlining of 5 man dungeons? lol. If you want to "experience" dungeons, run them on alts or do them naked (in game or irl) on your main.

I personally don't have the time to play as a dedicated raider anymore (work/school) which kills the fun for me, which was the team aspect of things. Never cared much for the social aspect of it aside from my real friends.

I am also willing to bet that a large portion of the Shaman who are complaining didn't even play the class before it had BL/Hero. I did, and the game could use another class with that buff.

Heroics are nothing but AOE spam through the trash mobs and kill the bosses in 20-30 seconds. Who remembers all the 5-10 mans before BC at level 60? You pretty much had to CC in those things, they were much more challenging than any of the heroics out now. In Cata they need to bring back BRD in heroic form.
 

gamz247

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Fair enough, and I agree its shitty that that may end up being the case. I've always been resto, I plan on being resto forever, I like healing. Any class that I have that can heal, is specced to heal.

That being said, not having the option to dps is terrible. I don't think it will be the case, but yea the mage BL is going to make a dps shaman much less valuable. At least elemental ones. But there are still some buffs and what not that dps shaman provide that I think are nice to have. Maybe not good enough to need a shaman in a 10 man, but in a 25 man I think a shaman or two are great to have around.
The thing is that despite being a buffing class, there are now very few buffs that Shaman bring that aren't brought by other classes. There's really only 3 unique totems that we have, and they can all be covered by having 1 Restoration Shaman: Wrath of Air, Healing Stream and Mana Tide. Yes, if an Enhancement Shaman has 3/3 Enhancing Totems, Strength of Earth is better than a Death Knight's Horn of Winter, but it's only 22 Strength/Agility gained. Elemental Shaman are really in dire straits here.
 

dogbyte_13

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Heroics are nothing but AOE spam through the trash mobs and kill the bosses in 20-30 seconds. Who remembers all the 5-10 mans before BC at level 60? You pretty much had to CC in those things, they were much more challenging than any of the heroics out now. In Cata they need to bring back BRD in heroic form.

Its downright funny when people get pissy when i offer to sap things in a instance or when i dismantle a weapon and shield from something that the tank is fighting. Oh and i agree bring on the BRD HARDMODES!!! or even better bring back the guild breaker in hard format aka BWL!!
 

Tytalus

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Now we have people that level to 80 and are in ICC25 less than 2 weeks later. They skip Naxx, skip Ulduar, run ToC25 + VoA25 just to lootwhore then get showered with ICC25 loot.

Who cares? No, really, who cares? Are you so delusional as to believe that an in-game item is worth something?

I've said it many times and I'll continue to do so: my sense of satisfaction comes from being satisfied at something I do, not by being a smug asshat loarding my achievements over others.

Other people getting epics does NOT matter and it does NOT make those epics "less valuable" (whatever the hell that means.) Your personal achievement should be reflective of your happiness in the game.

The bottom line: stop worrying about the items other people have. Whether or not they start with T9 gear or T7 gear is irrelevant to your raid progression, and it shouldn't have any impact on whether or not you are satisfied with your character and the achievements (in-game and personal) you've completed.

2.png
 

Spectrum17

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We've seen it all before. Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon and resistant to change, but I fail to see why Blizzard has to change the rules every so often. It smacks of sloppy game design. They don't seem to realize that whatever changes they make, their will always be someone or some group that is able to min/max and play the game so it is in their favor. It is like that in any game.

I've played every class, and settled on a prot war as my main. (I also have a high level BM hunter which I leveled first, mostly because it was so easy.) Everything runs in cycles with the game. The last big change gave wars, epecially prot, big buffs. Now, minor nerfs like improved revenge, sunder armor, and rage normalization. I'm not really worried, though. I've played wars since they were a challenge to play (especially solo), and so I am sure I can weather this storm too.
 

SLiGuy

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Heroics are nothing but AOE spam through the trash mobs and kill the bosses in 20-30 seconds. Who remembers all the 5-10 mans before BC at level 60? You pretty much had to CC in those things, they were much more challenging than any of the heroics out now. In Cata they need to bring back BRD in heroic form.
I miss those days. The quickest level 60 instance was probably UBRS, which took maybe 45 minutes with a good group. Sure, the instances were long and CC was necessary, but it also provided a MUCH greater feeling of accomplishment once you finished a run. If one person didn't CC a mob, things could go terribly wrong, and it really was a group effort with clearly defined roles.

Things are much faster nowadays. Sure, faster = better. But when it gets so dumbed down to the point where it's an AoE faceroll spam the entire, what, 20 minutes it takes to do a Heroic these days? If I wanted mindless action, I'd go play Dynasty Warriors or something. Getting loot faster and easier is great, but it really takes away from the experience as a whole.

Heroic BRD sounds great, but it'll still be an AoE faceroll unless Blizzard either nerfs AoE damage or buffs the mobs to the point where an AoE-fest may not be the most effective choice anymore.

*Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that AoE should be removed entirely from the game, but I feel that AoE should have the same place that it once did: a situational use, not a constant one. An instance like Shattered Halls? No way should groups be able to AoE plow their way through that in 30 minutes.
 

dara

Gawd
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
638
I miss those days. The quickest level 60 instance was probably UBRS, which took maybe 45 minutes with a good group. Sure, the instances were long and CC was necessary, but it also provided a MUCH greater feeling of accomplishment once you finished a run. If one person didn't CC a mob, things could go terribly wrong, and it really was a group effort with clearly defined roles.

Things are much faster nowadays. Sure, faster = better. But when it gets so dumbed down to the point where it's an AoE faceroll spam the entire, what, 20 minutes it takes to do a Heroic these days? If I wanted mindless action, I'd go play Dynasty Warriors or something. Getting loot faster and easier is great, but it really takes away from the experience as a whole.

Heroic BRD sounds great, but it'll still be an AoE faceroll unless Blizzard either nerfs AoE damage or buffs the mobs to the point where an AoE-fest may not be the most effective choice anymore.

*Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that AoE should be removed entirely from the game, but I feel that AoE should have the same place that it once did: a situational use, not a constant one. An instance like Shattered Halls? No way should groups be able to AoE plow their way through that in 30 minutes.

I agree completely. I would love to have BC level heroics back. Those were tons of fun.

Does anyone else feel like they are changing things in Cata just for the sake of being different? Very little of what has been announced so far has been what players have been asking for. Huge class overhauls changing things that have been the same since Vanilla. I feel blizzard is going to learn the hard way, 'don't fix it if it ain't broken."
 

Trimlock

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
15,228
Woah, wtf happened? I quit WOW a long time ago but shamans definitely weren't the worst class when I played.

I guess it was around the time the PVP point system first got introduced, but I remember dominating as a shaman, like top 5 on the server. It wasn't even funny...I was elemental/enhancement spec with a ridiculously high amount of armor/hp, and I would go around killing everyone with my windfury Hand of Edward the Odd, healing to full everytime it procced and zapping rogues with my Force Reactive Disc aoe everytime I got hit (which was actually quite damaging with spell damage + gear).

Has the game really changed that much? I remember being able to slaughter multiple people simultaneously and pretty much always having the most dangerous toon on the battlefield.

Shaman's got nerfed rightfully so, the "chance" insta kill option of our WF got nerfed hard core, they not only put a hidden 3second GCD but with it took off the option to also proc WF off of our WF proc.

They also took every viable option we had to break out of stun locks with rogues, also we somehow lost ALL hp advantage as a "secondary" tank we once had, same with the AC. Actually for a while in WOTLK we had the LOWEST hp out of all the classes which was an oversight on the item developers.

Shaman's are good in PVE raids, there is honestly nothing wrong with them in raids. The biggest problem is needing more then one, the raiding resto shaman though are honestly more then fine, of course they are going to switch the healing gods of PVE from shaman's to priests that everyone could see coming.
 

noIinteam

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
199
Heroics are nothing but AOE spam through the trash mobs and kill the bosses in 20-30 seconds. Who remembers all the 5-10 mans before BC at level 60? You pretty much had to CC in those things, they were much more challenging than any of the heroics out now. In Cata they need to bring back BRD in heroic form.

Oh god no
 
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