WoW! are dual cpu systems THAT uncommon?

tsubasa hanekawa

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i hate to dig up old threads like this but i can see too that dual sockets nowadays are kind of dying down which kind of saddens me, i think if there were more unlocked dual socket bits the market might perk up a bit, personally i don't think there is much better than dual socket, i still miss my old dual 771 setup i had last year for a render project in college XD and then im currently in the process of planning for my next one, the extra ram capacity is useful for making large amounts with dirt cheap ram and generally whilst not great for gaming they're not bad either, im doing an opteron build in august (though the first bits roll in soon ish, few more months) but it'll be for mostly lots of VM servers in the background and my main system on top (all in one system of course) and i will be doing a bit of gaming, not much but a bit so the optys should be enough for my needs, shame the dual socket market is dying though really, i mean the look of a nice beefy dual socket board to me personally is the best look there is, if i look at like a rampage 4/5 extreme it's nice but then if i look at either an SR2 or a beefy server board (the one im off for, the H8DG6-f is a prime example where ram slots are concerned) and that's more appealing to me than the R4/5E to my eyes at least.
 

mikeblas

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Maybe you're limiting your observations to the "enthusiast" market. I don't think multi-socket motherboards were ever really popular in that market, since most "enthusiasts" want to overclock.

While the core density has made them less appealing for some low-end applications, there are plenty of multi-socket offerings for workstations and servers.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Maybe you're limiting your observations to the "enthusiast" market. I don't think multi-socket motherboards were ever really popular in that market, since most "enthusiasts" want to overclock.

While the core density has made them less appealing for some low-end applications, there are plenty of multi-socket offerings for workstations and servers.


well nowadays you see allot less of them in any case, i know why, it's the fall of overclocking them as you say but it'd be nice to see more of them anyways really, personally i just prefer server hardware as it is over 'consumer' stuff
 

ToddW2

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You don't know what you're talking about, sorry. There is no "fall" of dual CPU systems. You simply aren't in a field or usage case where people around you use them commonly.

Sorry to disappoint.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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You don't know what you're talking about, sorry. There is no "fall" of dual CPU systems. You simply aren't in a field or usage case where people around you use them commonly.

Sorry to disappoint.


well i know enough people that would have snapped up such a system if it could overclock, i mean the people whom i know would are people still running SR2's (which is where my love of dual socket comes from) and yes granted i've only been into computers for a few years (closer to 5 or 6 now) but i have accumulated enough knowledge to get by, or rather to the point that it's enough i just never really see dual socket systems as much as i used to, back when they were more of an enthusiast platform at least, i mean they still are now 'i suppose' just not as much, but i've experience none the less, i've seen a fair few SR2 builds myself and i had and loved my old dual socket 771 xeon build so im far from inexperienced in any case.

also just as a bit of a more well worded response, when i say that i never said the fall of dual socket systems i said the fall of overclockable dual socket systems which does put 'some' people off, as i say one of the people i know that'd jump on something like that as soon as it came out, i mean he was on about buying an SRX till he found out the CPU's couldn't be overclocked
 

agrikk

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I've had my pair of Dell T5400 Precisions for about four years now (dual Xeon 4-core) and while they've been great as my audio production workstations, if I had the spare cash for a new i7 system I would totally go that route. They're rock solid machines, but very power hungry and hot.

Once upon a time, dually rigs were the only way to get more threads but now that there are 4-, 6-, 8- or, god help us and save us, 12- core CPUs available, there really isn't much need for multi-CPU motherboards in a workstation.

On the other hand, server motherboards come in all shapes and sizes, and my two 4-CPU 24-core F@H folders are awesome for ePeen goodness.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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I've had my pair of Dell T5400 Precisions for about four years now (dual Xeon 4-core) and while they've been great as my audio production workstations, if I had the spare cash for a new i7 system I would totally go that route. They're rock solid machines, but very power hungry and hot.

Once upon a time, dually rigs were the only way to get more threads but now that there are 4-, 6-, 8- or, god help us and save us, 12- core CPUs available, there really isn't much need for multi-CPU motherboards in a workstation.

On the other hand, server motherboards come in all shapes and sizes, and my two 4-CPU 24-core F@H folders are awesome for ePeen goodness.


im looking forward to my project XD 32 cores, lot of VM work to be done :p
 

Zarathustra[H]

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In a world with many core single socket CPU's there simply is no need for multi-socket machines for most applications.

I'd say it's a very rare workload today that benefits from multi-socket on the desktop. They are really the realm of servers these days, specifically virtualization servers.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Zarathustra[H];1041418822 said:
In a world with many core single socket CPU's there simply is no need for multi-socket machines for most applications.

I'd say it's a very rare workload today that benefits from multi-socket on the desktop. They are really the realm of servers these days, specifically virtualization servers.


id have to agree with you there, well no way to argue otherwise since it's pretty much bang on XD

generally really just folding, servers and virtuilisation (the latter of which mine will be used for since i need that type of workload) be nice if intel made a skulltrail 2 or something of the sort
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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No point really, especially since you need ECC ram right?

not all the time, some boards/CPU's work fine with standard desktop ram, though for server tasks it takes away from the entire point of server hardware but it's doable none the less on some boards though ultimately it all depends on a few things
 
D

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for me, if (system.type == 'server') { println("MUST USE ECC RAM") } else {"NON-ECC ok"}

I'll always have an affinity for > 1 socket systems. I spent a number of years on the 2cpu.com forums. Good times there.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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for me, if (system.type == 'server') { println("MUST USE ECC RAM") } else {"NON-ECC ok"}

I'll always have an affinity for > 1 socket systems. I spent a number of years on the 2cpu.com forums. Good times there.


if im honest there's something about multi socket systems that just looks nicer for me, the look of power i suppose even if it is only useful for server tasks XD

i miss my old 771 dually one XD
 

Zarathustra[H]

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id have to agree with you there, well no way to argue otherwise since it's pretty much bang on XD

generally really just folding, servers and virtuilisation (the latter of which mine will be used for since i need that type of workload) be nice if intel made a skulltrail 2 or something of the sort

I have a dual Xeon L5640 as my house ESXi server.

I was building too many boxes, so I consolidated. I have 8 guests on there right now.

For this purpose, 12 real cores (24 logical) is still a little overkill, but at least I have room to grow.

15104992598_819599393b_b.jpg
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Zarathustra[H];1041420270 said:
I have a dual Xeon L5640 as my house ESXi server.

I was building too many boxes, so I consolidated. I have 8 guests on there right now.

For this purpose, 12 real cores (24 logical) is still a little overkill, but at least I have room to grow.

15104992598_819599393b_b.jpg


god i wish i could find some good photos of my old dual E5335 system, that's the one that kicked it all off for me XD built that on the cheap last year for a few renders for college then sold it, which i regret doing XD

my next plan will be my second dually one so ill be looking forward to when i kick it off :p

in the meantime ill see if i can find some decent photos of my old 771 rig :p
 

schizrade

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I use dual socket machines for work, but I would not bother with one at home, unless I worked at home. Great for heavy VM tasks, large file processing etc. Heavy video rendering comes to mind as a great home use for dual socket systems.

Pretty much useless for most tasks, gaming included. Actually Civ V runs slower on my main work workstation (in sig below) than on my Lenovo X240, which is no speed demon.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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I use dual socket machines for work, but I would not bother with one at home, unless I worked at home. Great for heavy VM tasks, large file processing etc. Heavy video rendering comes to mind as a great home use for dual socket systems.

Pretty much useless for most tasks, gaming included. Actually Civ V runs slower on my main work workstation (in sig below) than on my Lenovo X240, which is no speed demon.


ill be doing allot of VM stuff in the not too distant future so i can justify the kit more than enough, my 8320 won't take the load in it's entirety and the optys im getting cheap so i don't see why not :p
 

wirk

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Yesterday's dual socket = today's single socket.
But how about tomorrow? Today's single socket has up to 18 cores (at rather lower clock) . Doubling it to 36 cores with dual socket asks for applications requiring tons of threads, most of it is on the server side primarily. Conclusion is that today and tomorrow dual socket workstation is only needed for rather special tasks.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Yesterday's dual socket = today's single socket.
But how about tomorrow? Today's single socket has up to 18 cores (at rather lower clock) . Doubling it to 36 cores with dual socket asks for applications requiring tons of threads, most of it is on the server side primarily. Conclusion is that today and tomorrow dual socket workstation is only needed for rather special tasks.

Well that's a good point but to be fair for my purposes ill be needing allot of cores and you can't find 32 cores in CPU's alone let alone with a mobo for under £140 so in that respect I can't really go wrong :p
 
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drescherjm

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Yesterday's dual socket = today's single socket.
But how about tomorrow? Today's single socket has up to 18 cores (at rather lower clock) . Doubling it to 36 cores with dual socket asks for applications requiring tons of threads, most of it is on the server side primarily. Conclusion is that today and tomorrow dual socket workstation is only needed for rather special tasks.

This is a big part of it for me a person that for over a decade I had dual processor configurations at home and thought I would always run a dual (or more) rig.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Well that's a good point but to be fair for my purposes ill be needing allot of cores and you can't find 32 cores in CPU's alone let alone with a mobo for under £140 so in that respect I can't really go wrong :p

Just because I am curious, what are you planning on doing that requires that many cores?
 

Dan_D

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Zarathustra[H];1041424783 said:
Agreed. If the topic is still relevant and interesting (and judging by the comments it has received, it is) then what's the problem?

In the age of multicore systems, the need for dual socket systems has dwindled. In the server market and commercial / productivity arenas there is still uses for it but dual socket systems are virtually a dead concept on the consumer level. Sure there are enthusiasts that will buy server equipment, workstation systems or dual socket motherboards anyway but they make up a very small percentage of even the enthusiast market. Dual socket systems are costly and are rarely justified in the consumer market space. Gamers and general computer enthusiasts rarely see any benefit from the added cost. This is why this part of the forum doesn't see the activity it once did. Back before the Athlon X2 and Pentium-D processors came out there was a fair amount of activity here.

I hardly think it is a problem that people find this topic relevant.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Zarathustra[H];1041424786 said:
Just because I am curious, what are you planning on doing that requires that many cores?


well it's a mix of a few things, im needing to slim my room down to one system alone so i need something that will do for my workstation work and be able to do my servers in VM's and this is really the only method of doing so that i can afford, im getting the lot for £140 so that's a supermicro H8DG6-F, 2 opteron 6272's, 16gb ECC ram and a sound card, not bad when you factor in the CPU's along tend to catch £100+ here and the board around £200, getting it so cheap because im buying from a friend and because it's cheap and fixes my problem so it's all a case of this is what's on offer, it would be more expensive for me to go any other way for my needs XD
 

Zarathustra[H]

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well it's a mix of a few things, im needing to slim my room down to one system alone so i need something that will do for my workstation work and be able to do my servers in VM's and this is really the only method of doing so that i can afford, im getting the lot for £140 so that's a supermicro H8DG6-F, 2 opteron 6272's, 16gb ECC ram and a sound card, not bad when you factor in the CPU's along tend to catch £100+ here and the board around £200, getting it so cheap because im buying from a friend and because it's cheap and fixes my problem so it's all a case of this is what's on offer, it would be more expensive for me to go any other way for my needs XD

Sounds pretty awesome. Wouldn't work for my needs though. I would need WAY more RAM for virtualization, but wouldn't need all those cores. For server and low use stuff, you can usually slap many virtual cores per physical core without any harm done. RAM - however - is always at a premium for me.

My server (dual Xeon L5640's, 12 cores total, 24 logical with HT) has way more CPU than I'll ever need out of it, but the 96GB of RAM feels a bit restrictive.

32 cores is a lot! Each individual 2.1Ghz AMD core on there isn't going to be very fast though, but that's the tradeoff.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Zarathustra[H];1041425056 said:
Sounds pretty awesome. Wouldn't work for my needs though. I would need WAY more RAM for virtualization, but wouldn't need all those cores. For server and low use stuff, you can usually slap many virtual cores per physical core without any harm done. RAM - however - is always at a premium for me.

My server (dual Xeon L5640's, 12 cores total, 24 logical with HT) has way more CPU than I'll ever need out of it, but the 96GB of RAM feels a bit restrictive.

32 cores is a lot! Each individual 2.1Ghz AMD core on there isn't going to be very fast though, but that's the tradeoff.


yeah for what ill be doing im willing to make the tradeoff in this respect,im in need of cores over speed (though ill be pissing about with the Pstates to get a constant 2.4, not a massive boost but when it's 2.1 stock it's better than nothing) since this'll be basically my main with my servers running of VM's id rather just massive amounts of 2.1/2.4GHz to throw at things.

that said clockspeed wise if less than 8 cores per cpu are used they spool up to 3GHz each so for some older games not so bad (this will be used for some occasional light gaming so that's a good thing in that respect)
 
D

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We are enthusiasts. Many of whom rocked SR2 motherboards and 56xx series xeons. Forget practical. It was just badass. I had 96GB of Ecc ram and two L5639s slightly overclocked. That's pretty cool. Many had systems with non Ecc ram wickedly overclocked. It was a lot of fun.

Shame that doesn't happen again considering Intel can still charge a killing on server chips.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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We are enthusiasts. Many of whom rocked SR2 motherboards and 56xx series xeons. Forget practical. It was just badass. I had 96GB of Ecc ram and two L5639s slightly overclocked. That's pretty cool. Many had systems with non Ecc ram wickedly overclocked. It was a lot of fun.

Shame that doesn't happen again considering Intel can still charge a killing on server chips.


Exactly that's what it's about, at some point this project of mine will become such a rig, few beefy GPUs, watercool the lot and get some 16 core ES opterons, watercool the lot and see what kind of OC i can get via TPC or a custom bios from supermicro and watch it just shrug everything off XD
 

frenetic_ferret

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Exactly that's what it's about, at some point this project of mine will become such a rig, few beefy GPUs, watercool the lot and get some 16 core ES opterons, watercool the lot and see what kind of OC i can get via TPC or a custom bios from supermicro and watch it just shrug everything off XD

Here's the catch though, that system won't be able to shrug everything off if you actually push it. Video games are not serious computing or even demanding computing. That's kiddy shit, the redneck gun tinkering of the computing world.

Serious stuff, rendering, virtualization, databases, will crush that. There are things out there that will shit all over quad socket boards, with SAS SSD arrays, and multiple tesla cards. Actual computing is an in area where you can never shrug it off. You can never have enough in any area. Thing is, there's no way to really do much of this at home, on your own.

So what you're left with, when it comes to multi socket systems, is spending a shit ton of money for something that will actually perform worse in gaming, and almost everything you'd do. ECC RAM is a performance hit due to latency, quad channel is a performance hit for things (not games or anything desktop) that don't need it due to latency, and Haswell desktop is faster per core than the Xeons are.

And even if you rigged up a way at home to really push it, then it would flop. Then you'd need to start clustering multi socket systems... and then there is a way to crush that.

We've long since passed the point where a desktop, or even general desktop workstation, really gained anything from being dual socket.
 

Red Falcon

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Video games are not serious computing or even demanding computing. That's kiddy shit, the redneck gun tinkering of the computing world.

Serious stuff, rendering, virtualization, databases, will crush that. There are things out there that will shit all over quad socket boards, with SAS SSD arrays, and multiple tesla cards. Actual computing is an in area where you can never shrug it off. You can never have enough in any area.

QFT
If only more people on this forum thought like this and understood it.
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Here's the catch though, that system won't be able to shrug everything off if you actually push it. Video games are not serious computing or even demanding computing. That's kiddy shit, the redneck gun tinkering of the computing world.

Serious stuff, rendering, virtualization, databases, will crush that. There are things out there that will shit all over quad socket boards, with SAS SSD arrays, and multiple tesla cards. Actual computing is an in area where you can never shrug it off. You can never have enough in any area. Thing is, there's no way to really do much of this at home, on your own.

So what you're left with, when it comes to multi socket systems, is spending a shit ton of money for something that will actually perform worse in gaming, and almost everything you'd do. ECC RAM is a performance hit due to latency, quad channel is a performance hit for things (not games or anything desktop) that don't need it due to latency, and Haswell desktop is faster per core than the Xeons are.

And even if you rigged up a way at home to really push it, then it would flop. Then you'd need to start clustering multi socket systems... and then there is a way to crush that.

We've long since passed the point where a desktop, or even general desktop workstation, really gained anything from being dual socket.


Of course it won't do as well as a dedicated system but then I have already stated why I'm getting this kit, if i can get the CPU's clocked a bit higher with the ES units then it'll do a better job overall to the point it'll possibly do a bit of a better job than what I have now.
 

Verge

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Here's the catch though, that system won't be able to shrug everything off if you actually push it. Video games are not serious computing or even demanding computing. That's kiddy shit, the redneck gun tinkering of the computing world.

Serious stuff, rendering, virtualization, databases, will crush that. There are things out there that will shit all over quad socket boards, with SAS SSD arrays, and multiple tesla cards. Actual computing is an in area where you can never shrug it off. You can never have enough in any area. Thing is, there's no way to really do much of this at home, on your own.

So what you're left with, when it comes to multi socket systems, is spending a shit ton of money for something that will actually perform worse in gaming, and almost everything you'd do. ECC RAM is a performance hit due to latency, quad channel is a performance hit for things (not games or anything desktop) that don't need it due to latency, and Haswell desktop is faster per core than the Xeons are.

And even if you rigged up a way at home to really push it, then it would flop. Then you'd need to start clustering multi socket systems... and then there is a way to crush that.

We've long since passed the point where a desktop, or even general desktop workstation, really gained anything from being dual socket.

Your post is decidedly non [H]. You forget what forum you are on. Practicality is irrelevant.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Your post is decidedly non [H]. You forget what forum you are on. Practicality is irrelevant.

I disagree.

Even on the [H] it makes no sense to waste money if it won't improve your rig for your given workload.

Every dollar saved on a dual socket system most don't need for a desktop can be better spent elsewhere!
 

tsubasa hanekawa

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Your post is decidedly non [H]. You forget what forum you are on. Practicality is irrelevant.

Zarathustra[H];1041428543 said:
I disagree.

Even on the [H] it makes no sense to waste money if it won't improve your rig for your given workload.

Every dollar saved on a dual socket system most don't need for a desktop can be better spent elsewhere!


i have already stated in past posts that for my workload a dual socket system is all i can fit in my budget (might sound odd but im getting the lot for £140 which again has been mentioned in other posts on this thread) so if anything for me ill be saving money by going dual socket over single, for my workload (which is literally going to be a metric crap ton of VM's) i need cores over speed and more ram than i can shake a stick at so for what im paying it's cheaper and better suited to my requirements than a single socket rig at the moment
 

Zarathustra[H]

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i have already stated in past posts that for my workload a dual socket system is all i can fit in my budget (might sound odd but im getting the lot for £140 which again has been mentioned in other posts on this thread) so if anything for me ill be saving money by going dual socket over single, for my workload (which is literally going to be a metric crap ton of VM's) i need cores over speed and more ram than i can shake a stick at so for what im paying it's cheaper and better suited to my requirements than a single socket rig at the moment

Note my use of the word "most". I was sspeaking in general terms. You've already stated your rather unusual setup and access to hardware for which this seems appropriate!
 

plugwash

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Your post is decidedly non [H]. You forget what forum you are on. Practicality is irrelevant.
The thing is for most people dual socket desktops/workstations* are neither practical or fun. If something is not practical and not fun why would an enthusiast buy it?

Intel took the fun out when they clamped down on overclocking. Their release schedule with over a year between the first single socket haswell processor and the first dual socket haswell processor doesn't help either. AMD are so far behind on single core performance that no gamer would consider them

From a practical point of view the number of desktop applications that can actually take advantage of more cores, memory or IO than a high end single socket system can provide is pretty small.

* Servers are another matter of course
 
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