WoW; 6h expansion Legion

leezard said:
If you happen to be on Cenarius contact someone in FriendshipLegion. Multiple raid nights both normal and heroic (very laid back with no strict requirements) Brawlers guild nights, Mythic + runs, something we call fail hard fridays where people play an off spec they arte not used to and run heroic/mythic content.

Its a good group of people and almost always 20+ on at any given time
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What faction?

I have a 100 boost from pre ordering legion, so who knows, I may do that.
 
leezard said:
If you happen to be on Cenarius contact someone in FriendshipLegion. Multiple raid nights both normal and heroic (very laid back with no strict requirements) Brawlers guild nights, Mythic + runs, something we call fail hard fridays where people play an off spec they arte not used to and run heroic/mythic content.

Its a good group of people and almost always 20+ on at any given time
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I appreciate it man! Unfortunately I've already got a guild/group, and the real conundrum is that I'd rather do other things in general, and play other games I've missed over the years. I do pine for the late nights up in high school playing WoW though...
 
Man Tanking in Public group finder Raids is brutal. One wipe and half the group rage quites and freak out.

I've been running Normal NH and ToV Raids with my DK Tank iLvl 868, yeah I know that a bit under geared. But holy crap these public groups can just be so whiney. If the group doesn't mow down and breeze right through a boss it's the end of the world. And if we wipe once or don't know the mechs100% holy shit they'll kill you.

What happened to the helping friendly community ?
 
I might try out a DPS spec Death Knight now, after the rough Heroic Tanking runs.

But then I have to pick Unholy or Frost, get the Artifact weapon first and run through the campaign on that specific spec. Then do all the Class Hall quests for that DPS version. And on top of that fill up the Artifact traits and talents from scratch.

Is it worth it to have a DPS off spec if you're a main Tank ? And then for the Death Knight F or U ?
 
if your artifact knowledge is maxxed out on your tank spec it takes no time at all to get enough AP to level up a DPS weapon. Getting AP at 100K+ a pop it goes by fast. There are not a lot of class hall quests for each spec, just the short quest chain to get the weapon. I did all 4 of the ones for druid in about an hour and a half.

For DK DPS frost is what I see most often.
 
The gear grind is starting to be a major turnoff again. Ton of players on my server are i900 or i905 iLvl, and have zero idea how they get there without a shit ton of time invested.

I'm a casual player, but I still play 5 or 6 nights week with Legion. I will play for an hour or maybe 90 minutes each time.

I have three Legion characters I am messing around with;

- Demon Hunter Level 110 iLvl i865
- Paladin Tank Level 110 iLvl 848
- Death Knight Tank Level 110 iLvl i868

I just can't get over the i870 mark, I've been running LFR and Normal Raids, and drop after drop nothing for me, and when I do get a drop it's worse or same as currently equipped. And some of the runs I go on, these are are Public Group Finder Raids, we wipe once, and half the group rage quits and freaks out, and we have to find half new players and start the boss over again, and that usually end up a cluster fuck.

I guess I'll go back to PvP some cool looking gear in there, but you won't get to i900 either just PvP'ing.
 
Ok so I've been with my Frost spec for the first time for a week now, and so far liking it a lot. Had to get away from Taking the higher Legion Raids, because not knowing the boss mechs that well, just getting schooled and wiping. I've got my Frost Talents picked that work best for me, I have my rotation down, which is working smooth and quickly, with lots of procs, and my Artifact traits are 75% filled. I can whack away and do some good damage.

But two or three MAJOR turnoffs so far, with DPS specs vs. Tank;

- Queue times for Dungeons and Raids is like ten times longer it seems. Queue for LFR on my Tank and is less than a 10 minute wait, queue with Frost spec is a 40 minute wait. Setup Mythic + runs, as Tank I fill up a group real quick, in like 5 minutes, but as DPS it takes a long time to get a full group ready to go.

- I forgot how squishy and weak DPS are. I've died pretty easily on WQ's with mobs that in Tank mode would never have been killed in. Same with few a Mythic runs, I died in some areas in the dungeon I was shocked to have been killed.

- Not sure I can still solo old Raids and old content for mog gear like I easily could in Tank mode. Run old MoP Raids as Tank = easy peasy, not sure this DPS spec can run those the same ?
 
Queue times arent that bad for DPS, they used to be MUCH worse. I usually get into a dungeon or raid in about 15-20 minutes when I use LFR. I just do WQ while waiting.

I cant remember the last time I have died as DPS in a WQ, raid or dungeon that wasnt due to my own actions. I also recommend the add on World Quest Group Finder. It will auto add you yo a group when you enter a WQ area, I mow through WQ like they are nothing.

I solo old raid content every week as dps, 25 man heroic MoP are a cake walk.
 
Zorachus said:
The gear grind is starting to be a major turnoff again. Ton of players on my server are i900 or i905 iLvl, and have zero idea how they get there without a shit ton of time invested.

I'm a casual player, but I still play 5 or 6 nights week with Legion. I will play for an hour or maybe 90 minutes each time.

I have three Legion characters I am messing around with;

- Demon Hunter Level 110 iLvl i865
- Paladin Tank Level 110 iLvl 848
- Death Knight Tank Level 110 iLvl i868

I just can't get over the i870 mark, I've been running LFR and Normal Raids, and drop after drop nothing for me, and when I do get a drop it's worse or same as currently equipped. And some of the runs I go on, these are are Public Group Finder Raids, we wipe once, and half the group rage quits and freaks out, and we have to find half new players and start the boss over again, and that usually end up a cluster fuck.

I guess I'll go back to PvP some cool looking gear in there, but you won't get to i900 either just PvP'ing.
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Gotta do mythic+ My Sham is 880 with two legendaries, both buffed to i940. +7 or +8. You'll get loot for sure at the end, Then every Tuesday the big chest in your faction hall will dump a shiny.
 
I play about the same as you Zorachus, maybe a little more but no more than 20 hours a week split between my main and leveling alts. All I do is weekly LFR and WQ for my gear. I think the RNG has been bad to you or maybe just good to me :) I'm sitting at 874. I could be higher but the higher item levels didn't have the stats I wanted for my main.
 
Seelenlos said:
I play about the same as you Zorachus, maybe a little more but no more than 20 hours a week split between my main and leveling alts. All I do is weekly LFR and WQ for my gear. I think the RNG has been bad to you or maybe just good to me :) I'm sitting at 874. I could be higher but the higher item levels didn't have the stats I wanted for my main.
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Thanks for the encouragement. I think I've had some bad luck on my runs. I'll keep at the LFR and do some Mythic + now, and the odds should work in my favor for better gear soon.
 
So this weekend I ran some Mythic +, went, 6, 9, and to 10. And then ran both LFR Nightold, as well as part of Normal NH, and part of EN Heroic. I did get a Legendary 940 Tank trinket, and two 875 pcs.

I did all of this as sometimes Frost DPS, and a little as my Blood Tank.

One issue with the Frost spec, I seemed to always die the easiest in Frost mode in the Raid. I try not to step in shit, and move out of the way. I have the Add On GTFO, but I still seem to get easily one shotted, or I step in purple shit for only 1/2 a second and I dead.

The Tank I was able to 4 man a Mythic +6, after one DPS dc after first boss, I am able to Tank Mythic pretty well now it seems. With Frost, same thing still, I do die a few times in there, from being so squishy.

Bottom line, I like my Tank spec better, I've been playing Tank 75% on this character since Wrath, but I just suck on some of the Raid bosses in Normal NH and Heroic EN from not knowing the mechs.

I do like the speed of Frost, and the high DPS is a lot of fun, but...being weak sauce and easily killed is not. Whereas Blood I feel uber bad ass, and I like leading, but I suck at the harder Raid bosses. I can Mythic bosses, because I've gotten to know them well enough after running the dungeons so many times.

Opinions ??
 
braamer said:
Have you run at all as Unholy spec? Should have better DPS than frost.
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I did try Unholy for an hour, but the rotation seemed very funky and clunky, not so straightforward and streamline. I loved the artifact weapons though :) Super cool. Maybe I'll try it again tonight.

Whereas Frost has a very fast and very simplified rotation, that's just wham bam thank you ma'am. But it didn't feel as powerful as expected.

I did run Mythic +'s this weekend, and got the i940 legendary Tank trinket at the end of MoS
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My gear score went up 6 points this weekend from that Trink and a couple other higher iLvl items.

I was going back and forth on staying with Tanking or going forward long term with the Frost DPS spec I just started, but I am just not comfortable with DPS, never really DPS'd my entire WoW career, going back to November 2004 launch. Out of those 13 years playing WoW, I have probably been Tank spec'd on my characters 60% to 70% of that time. Always great Tanking in heroic dungeons, and now pretty good Tank in Mythics, But for some reason in current content Normal Raids not that good.

Oh well, I'd be happy enough getting this DK to i880 or so. Can that be achieved by doing M+ and some LFR NH ?
 
Zorachus said:
Never once in my WoW time have I tried a Healer.
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You really ought to give it a shot. I enjoy healing a ton, and it would bring a different dynamic to the game that might removed some of your current lack of interest. If you want to make it easier and/or more enjoyable, use healbot.
 
braamer said:
Have you run at all as Unholy spec? Should have better DPS than frost.
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That's not true anymore. Frost got buffed massively in 7.1.5, and while both played "perfectly" comes out around even single target, frost comes out ahead in multi targets, and also just from ease of the rotation. It's simply EASIER to play frost well.
 
Noxxic is NOT a good source, I'm sorry. In general, their numbers and guides are usually mostly wrong. First off, that's a sim, of an artificial fight where you plug in YOUR interpretation of the proper rotation. It might not even be feasible. It also assumes ZERO movement during the fight, or mechanics. Strictly a "stand still and DPS" scenario. Count all of THOSE in the game. Zero.

It also assumes 3 static targets, all within cleave range. Can you think of any relevant fights like that right now? I can't. Botanist stage 3 comes CLOSE, but that's a small portion of the fight.

In addition, it doesn't take into account legendaries, proper gearing, RNG with stats/items, etc.

Lastly, Noxxic is known to basically be the Fox News of Wow. It's fucking awful. I'm sorry, but it is.

Edit: I just glanced at their Assassination rogue guide. Their talent choices are bad. Outlaw is equally bad. Aff and demo locks have equally poor choices. Those are my only two classes I raid with right now so I wont comment on the rest, but yeah. Not good.
 
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Frost DK with my 1h Weapons at 899. All Traits filled up 54 maxed out. And gear score is i874. And I am only doing a measly 225k or so DPS. My Guild leader is super cool, he said let me theory craft for a second, asked me to log out and log back in, and he test my guy, as is, and said yep, current Talent and setup, best I could do is 225k to 250k dps.

He said try this, just switch to Unholy for a second, which I have not played but for like 10 minutes last year. I have ZERO traits, and zero relics. I switch to him, my gear score drops to i850, and my weapon drops to like i749. He tests that out, and I am doing 200k DPS right off the bat, with zero anything in Unholy. He said i'd suggest you strongly consider switching to Unholy spec moving forward, at least give it a good try for a couple weeks, see how you like it after gearing up.

Why in Unholy spec, with no relics at all, only like 4 traits out of 54 filled up, with a gear score of i850 and weapon of i749, am I doing 200k damage, which is pretty good for being like a newbie fresh 100. Where as in nice geared Frost spec; all 54 traits filled, all 3 relics filled with good 880 stuff, my weapon at i899, and my gear score of 874, am I doing so bad ?
 
Zorachus said:
Frost DK with my 1h Weapons at 899. All Traits filled up 54 maxed out. And gear score is i874. And I am only doing a measly 225k or so DPS. My Guild leader is super cool, he said let me theory craft for a second, asked me to log out and log back in, and he test my guy, as is, and said yep, current Talent and setup, best I could do is 225k to 250k dps.

He said try this, just switch to Unholy for a second, which I have not played but for like 10 minutes last year. I have ZERO traits, and zero relics. I switch to him, my gear score drops to i850, and my weapon drops to like i749. He tests that out, and I am doing 200k DPS right off the bat, with zero anything in Unholy. He said i'd suggest you strongly consider switching to Unholy spec moving forward, at least give it a good try for a couple weeks, see how you like it after gearing up.

Why in Unholy spec, with no relics at all, only like 4 traits out of 54 filled up, with a gear score of i850 and weapon of i749, am I doing 200k damage, which is pretty good for being like a newbie fresh 100. Where as in nice geared Frost spec; all 54 traits filled, all 3 relics filled with good 880 stuff, my weapon at i899, and my gear score of 874, am I doing so bad ?
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Frost seems better for pvp. Ive been getting wrecked lately but what appears to be some macro that there's no getting away from
 
Zorachus, something is VERY off. No, you should be doing a LOT more than 225K DPS. Send me a PM to your toon's armory page. I want to check something out, if you don't mind. Also, let me know what relics you're using in your weapon (and their ilevel).
 


I am the happiest ever, with a Transmog I really like and plan on keeping awhile.

This is a Death Knight gear only. The legs and Gloves the DK starter gear. The Helm and Shoulders Tier 14, and Chest Tier 10
 
Sometimes it hangs on me and I have to kill the process. Launcher on my newest system I built this last fall takes a good 20-30 seconds to load. On my yoga that is almost 4 years old it loads in under ten seconds.
The launcher sucks.
 
I rebooted my modem - no luck, disabled security - no luck, uninstalled - couldn't reinstall, rebooted modem again and it appeared to work.
 
entropism said:
So Zorachus I got my DK to 110 last night. I'm at 810 in frost, and I'm already pulling 250K in heroic dungs. Something is off man.
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What talents do you have in each column ? And where your main rotation ( I know there's not a solid rotation per say but which spells do you have lined up )

And how are you liking Frost overall ?
 
I don't know how my Guild mate theory crafted me saying I was so low while in Frost. Because when I am out doing a WQ and going after one of the bigger guys with like 5k health, and you see the floating combat text damage go off over your character, some of my whacks in Frost I see in the 450,000 numbers, some just in the 250,000, a lot in the 375,000 +. So how he says I am only doing an average of 200k damage is a head scratcher.

And then had me go into Unholy spec, with zero relics, and only 5 traits out of 34 filled, and said my UH spec was testing out at 175,000 damage. I am surprised to see that, as in Unholy I was almost like a fresh 110, and how could he have been so close to my Frost he theory craft tested ?

And sort of off topic, but play styles between both specs;

- Frost = Warp speed fast attacks, always spells ready to go and just whack away, and destroy your enemy FAST. But for some reason i am not doing a ton of damage?
- Unholy = Feels a little clunky, and does not seem like I am doing a ton of damage, the floating combat text over my head, I see numbers in the 125,000 range, but my Guild says my Pet makes up the difference, as does the summoned bat. And in Unholy I seem to be waiting for spells to cd a lot more than when in Frost.
 
Don't worry about combat text. That's just for pretty numbers to make you feel better. For an example, my feral druid in MOP would top the meters every fight, but it was because of multiple, low level DOTs hitting multiple targets. It all added up. Same thing with Affliction in Legion.

As for talents: I'm running 2234213, basically because I'm still; gearing up in dungeons, I don't even have enough item level to hit up LFR. That should be tonight.

The second build of this guide - http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-death-knight-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents

As for rotation... I mean, there's not much rotation really. Howling blast, glacial advance and remorseless all the targets (in that order), frost scythe or Oblit when KM procs (depending on targets up), and frost strike when you're going to cap RP. Use Pillar on cooldown.

I've played a DK since MOP, so this is kind of second nature to me. I don't think much about rotation, though with the class changes in Legion, I still have a learning curve.

As far as specs go: I have ALWAYS preferred Unholy. But from what I've seen with the Legion changes, it's clunky and fucking annoying. Frost has always been a boring, spam filled spec for beginners, and not much has changed since Legion. Honestly, I'm not thrilled with how DK looks right now, but I'll give it a little bit before I move on to another alt. Same as warlock, really. Druid is up next, then probably warr.
 
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leezard said:
If you happen to be on Cenarius contact someone in FriendshipLegion. Multiple raid nights both normal and heroic (very laid back with no strict requirements) Brawlers guild nights, Mythic + runs, something we call fail hard fridays where people play an off spec they arte not used to and run heroic/mythic content.

Its a good group of people and almost always 20+ on at any given time
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Also confirming that this is an excellent group of players. I happen to know some of their leadership and have run a raid or two with the guild - most members seem to be laid back and respectful, yet competent players in my experience.
 
entropism said:
Link doubled up for some reason. I fixed it.
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Still not working, but I think it's this guide;

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/frost-death-knight-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents

For Mythic+ dungeons, we recommend using the Machine Gun playstyle instead, in which case you should choose the following talents.

 
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