WoW; 5th expansion Warlords of Draenor

People do seem to have grown excessively lazy at dealing with instance mechanics of any kind. We had people dying left and right in certain fights on LFR this week and I regularly get 5-man heroics where dps don't know to burn down adds, usually resulting in the healer (me) dying.

I also had a 5-man last night where the dps seemed hell bent on dying. As a healer, there's only so much I can do to save you from yourself. Sure, there's certain mob mechanics where someone other than the tank takes damage. I got hit by those as well. A bit of healing and I'm back but when I've got 3 people dropping to 20% on trash mobs, I start wondering what's going on.

Maybe I should just go guardian instead of resto. I'll let keeping everyone alive be someone else's problem.
 
My Alliance guild on Darkspear is recruiting a Holy Paladin or H/Disc Priest if anyone is interested in raiding. We are currently 6/10H BRF and basically just need the H Pal as a tank healer. Anyone interested just PM me and I can give details. We raid Tues and THurs 830PM-12 EST.
 
I agree with the observations here. In general, other than small pockets of people, in general, I think the trend line for "raiding " types games etc that require actual concentration, organization, and accurate execution, is down.. fading... nostalgia.

people just arent built like that anymore.. too distracted, adhd'd, etc...

so.. I just lfr anymore. get to see the encounter.. but largely anonymously. the challenge then is play the minimal mechanics to live through it and top the dps meters.

one of the other unspoken issues with mmo raiding etc.. is people are unpleasent, rude, and over the top rage.. i think, more than ever. aint got time for that childishness.Im a successful adult, with a great career, family, home, etc. to have some basement swelling, nerd rage punk go off on me how I fail at life, because i stepped in fire.. ya. no thanks
 
I agree with the observations here. In general, other than small pockets of people, in general, I think the trend line for "raiding " types games etc that require actual concentration, organization, and accurate execution, is down.. fading... nostalgia.

people just arent built like that anymore.. too distracted, adhd'd, etc...

so.. I just lfr anymore. get to see the encounter.. but largely anonymously. the challenge then is play the minimal mechanics to live through it and top the dps meters.

one of the other unspoken issues with mmo raiding etc.. is people are unpleasent, rude, and over the top rage.. i think, more than ever. aint got time for that childishness.Im a successful adult, with a great career, family, home, etc. to have some basement swelling, nerd rage punk go off on me how I fail at life, because i stepped in fire.. ya. no thanks

In my mind (and coming from a former hardcore raider for almost 6 years), there is no convincing or retaining the "professional" vet crowd that simply doesn't care about the alure of maintaining an alternate reality in the form of an MMO (any MMO, for that matter!). It's all just damn bits and bytes, and to relegating even a split-second of RL-type "care" is simply nuts. The game turned into a serious addiction for me, personally...and like any bad habit where you know you need to straighten out and stop it... i killed it. Nothing Blizzard ever does will resurrect my WoW life, so in the end.. it really has nothing to do with the content.
 
Thinking about re-subbing. Did the patch that dropped yesterday actually improve anything (like pvp)?
 
people just arent built like that anymore.. too distracted, adhd'd, etc...

I dont think its as much as the same people are lazy. It is that the game is more accessable to bads, so if you run in lower tiers, you have to run with lower expectations. If you want to see people perform, then get on the level of people performing.

I run heroics and people dont fart around, we get shit done and we progress fairly quickly. Heroics now is what Normal used to be before cataclysm. The same executing players in normals back then are the same people doing heroics now. Normal(now)/Flex(MoP) allowed for people with less skill to experience some challenge and need for coordination, but for me (as a classic-cata raider) its too easy and is interchangable with LFR difficulty.

I run LFR for shits and giggles, but I dont care if people die because its almost impossible to wipe. Its just as stupid to rage at someone standing in fire as being the person standing in fire.

If you want to be with higher skilled player, stay ahead of the curve. Start heroics as they launch, and progress into mythics or take a break until the next raid once you're geared. Its less of a time commitment than waiting in LFR for 45 min per wing. I raid like 2 nights a week for 3 hours, and we're easily 8/10H and probably 9/10 this week without breaking our heads over the wall.

Raiding has not gotten easier of the years, take a look at the mythic encounters. Anyone that says Molten Core is harder than mythic raids has no idea what he is talking about. Sure MC had more meta-collect/grind difficulty, but in terms of pure mechanics, Rag was a stupid joke compared to mythic mechanics now.
 
I agree with the observations here. In general, other than small pockets of people, in general, I think the trend line for "raiding " types games etc that require actual concentration, organization, and accurate execution, is down.. fading... nostalgia.

people just arent built like that anymore.. too distracted, adhd'd, etc...

so.. I just lfr anymore. get to see the encounter.. but largely anonymously. the challenge then is play the minimal mechanics to live through it and top the dps meters.

one of the other unspoken issues with mmo raiding etc.. is people are unpleasent, rude, and over the top rage.. i think, more than ever. aint got time for that childishness.Im a successful adult, with a great career, family, home, etc. to have some basement swelling, nerd rage punk go off on me how I fail at life, because i stepped in fire.. ya. no thanks

Shit just look at Wildstar. That ENTIRE game was nostalgia for vanilla WoW raids and now its a fucking nightmare to play. Weeks just to attune for raids and months and months to actually raid and learn the encounters. Not to mention a now very small pop compared to its launch.

Raiding was a great thing in Vanilla WoW and in EQ 1. But those glory days are over. Raiding guilds hang on because of personal bonds with each other and not well crafted boss encounters.

WoW is basically advanced Farmville now. You play for the people otherwise you'll get bored fucking fast. Blizzard crippled the theorycrafting for player builds and made everything else trivial or time based. The challenge is truly gone. Blizzard have effectively taken the difficulty and dialed it down from "Hard" to "Very Easy".

I miss the theorycrafting for player builds and the complicated talent structure. Its just not deep enough anymore. PVP is a total after thought. Arena's are always poorly balanced and favor whatever Blizzard has balanced for team make ups at that moment.

What keeps WoW so fucking popular has nothing to do with WoW the actual game and has everything to do with WoW being a glorified chat room to hang out in. Don't get me wrong , its the best chat room on the Internet but.. its still a fucking chat room.
 
Almost 2 Full lockouts and only two guilds in the world have killed Mythic Blackhand. Apparently most 9/10 mythic guilds (which there is less than 40 in the world) cant even get past the first phase of that fight.

Its just plain ignorant so say this game isnt hard anymore. Critiquing a game for being too easy because you use easy-mode as a baseline is a terrible way to judge the game's difficulty. Let me know when you can one shot mythic imperator with full 695 gear, which is a full 10 ilvls above what he drops. Even to this day, after higher level gear and T17 set bonuses are out, only 1% of the 50,000 raiding guilds have even cleared mythic imperator (which has been out for almost 3 months). Only a third have cleared him on heroic (which has been out even longer).
 
I never understood this obsession some people have with every aspect of the game having to be so HARD. The vast majority of the player base doesn't do mythic and has no interest in it. Do people not realize that if they catered to only the leet super snowflake hardcore people this game would have died years ago, since they wouldn't be able to fund the game if 90% of subscriptions were lost. I get so sick of the elitst asshats that hate on "casuals"... casuals fund your goddamned raids.
 
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I never understood this obsession some people have with every aspect of the game having to be so HARD. The vast majority of the player base doesn't do mythic and has no interest in it. Do people not realize that if they catered to only the leet super snowflake hardcore people this game would have died years ago, since they wouldn't be able to fund the game if 90% of subscriptions were lost. I get so sick of the elitst asshats that hate on "casuals"... casuals fund your goddamned raids.

Because people have to believe they are better than everyone else. It's probably all they have.
 
Thinking about re-subbing. Did the patch that dropped yesterday actually improve anything (like pvp)?

There wasn't a tremendous amount to 6.1. They didn't really do anything with PVP outside the typical class balancing.
 
Because people have to believe they are better than everyone else. It's probably all they have.

I think Godmachine has a point, in that the game is basically a glorified chat room. It might have something to do with me being just less interested in the competitive aspects of a game, but I'd much rather get on and hang out with friends, while moving some pixels around at the same time. There's a certain feeling of "accomplishment" in an MMO, and especially WoW, where you feel that even farming herbs is "getting something done". I think that's the lure for most people.

As far as the "how hard a game is" argument, I think it comes down to how you really perceive difficulty and a challenge. One could argue that because the game is difficult at the top tier, it's got plenty of challenge for those who need it and want to experience that type of content. Whereas on the other side of the spectrum, they've completely killed the theorycrafting portion (as has been pointed out), therefore, most of the challenge, which was really a huge portion of the game, is now gone. Apples/Oranges...

As far as I'm concerned, on a personal note, I think the game is fine. I get on (though not in a few weeks), talk to a few people, do some quests, garrison stuff, then log off but continue to stay in mumble just talking.

For those who haven't played the game yet or are itching to try, it's a good time to jump in. Tons of content, and still plenty of people playing. I always try the latest and greatest (claimed) MMO, but always come back to WoW. It's just the most fleshed out.
 
I think Godmachine has a point, in that the game is basically a glorified chat room. It might have something to do with me being just less interested in the competitive aspects of a game, but I'd much rather get on and hang out with friends, while moving some pixels around at the same time. There's a certain feeling of "accomplishment" in an MMO, and especially WoW, where you feel that even farming herbs is "getting something done". I think that's the lure for most people.

As far as the "how hard a game is" argument, I think it comes down to how you really perceive difficulty and a challenge. One could argue that because the game is difficult at the top tier, it's got plenty of challenge for those who need it and want to experience that type of content. Whereas on the other side of the spectrum, they've completely killed the theorycrafting portion (as has been pointed out), therefore, most of the challenge, which was really a huge portion of the game, is now gone. Apples/Oranges...

As far as I'm concerned, on a personal note, I think the game is fine. I get on (though not in a few weeks), talk to a few people, do some quests, garrison stuff, then log off but continue to stay in mumble just talking.

For those who haven't played the game yet or are itching to try, it's a good time to jump in. Tons of content, and still plenty of people playing. I always try the latest and greatest (claimed) MMO, but always come back to WoW. It's just the most fleshed out.

Glorified chat room? It is only a chat room if you want it to be a chat room. There is always the freedom to go to a different game.
 
they've completely killed the theorycrafting portion (as has been pointed out),

The argument of killed theory crafting is again an argument of ignorance. Sure, reforging is taken out, but there are still huge communities running simulations for highest dps, hps, and survival.

For example, the difference between Highmaul Raid gear and getting set pieces in BRF is huge as a ret paladin. In single target dps, before tier bonuses seal twisting with sactified wrath provided the best burst damage when needed. After set bonuses, Divine purposes and Final Verdict starts edging out for sustain and AoE damage. I'm running DW/FV until I can get back up to 4pc, then I'm going to have to relearn a new rotation. Mastery is the best secondary stat, then depending on who you ask, haste is the best or the worst secondary stat to get afterwards. It all depends on your gear, and most recommend running your own simulations on your own gear to see which stat you go for after mastery.

This level of complexity isnt needed for LFR, Normal, or some of Heroic, but once you start hitting DPS checks on the wing end bosses and blackhand and start pushing mythic, you need to start edging out your dps more. Blast furnace and Blackhand has high dps checks. Higher ilvl gear is not always better.



Yes the "preparation" for raids is much easier.
You dont have to buy buff reagents.
You dont have to farm soul shards before a raid.
You dont have to manually conjure food for everyone.
Flasks persist through death.
You respawn inside the raid instance instead of a GY a mile away.
You dont have to farm crafting mats in 5-man dungeons for raid gear.
You can repair without having to port back to town.
Tradeskills do not give direct stat benefits so you dont have to switch for BIS raiding.
You dont have to reforge every piece of gear every time you get an upgrade.
For those that used it, you dont have to run an extra mod to follow reforge recommendations like a lemming.

But if you found any of that "hard" or more importantly "fun" then the new the modern WoW isnt for those that reminisce on the "glory days".
 
Are major cities still barren? When the expansion first came out NO ONE hung out in the major cities because they were all at their Garrisons. I miss the shenanigans of the major cities.

I also miss putting down my toy train set in the middle of 100 people. Good times
 
Are major cities still barren? When the expansion first came out NO ONE hung out in the major cities because they were all at their Garrisons. I miss the shenanigans of the major cities.

I also miss putting down my toy train set in the middle of 100 people. Good times

Blizzard really should have made Faction shared city again for Draenor, like Dal and Shatt. Those felt so alive, and bustling with people, and just a ton of fun. Now Sunspear or whatever it's called, seemed pretty sparsely populated, like very low, and I am on a high pop server. Like where's everybody at ?
 
Taking the time to click the thread, and then posting something like this says more about you than it does the people that still play.

With a name like Berettagtkid69420, nothing else really needs to be said about him. :)

On topic, I burned out after doing LFR through highmaul and 2's arena with my brother on 2 different comps. I leveled 4 toons to 100, but my interest just wasn't there.

Plus MH4U is eating up all my free time at the moment.
 
The argument of killed theory crafting is again an argument of ignorance. Sure, reforging is taken out, but there are still huge communities running simulations for highest dps, hps, and survival.

For example, the difference between Highmaul Raid gear and getting set pieces in BRF is huge as a ret paladin. In single target dps, before tier bonuses seal twisting with sactified wrath provided the best burst damage when needed. After set bonuses, Divine purposes and Final Verdict starts edging out for sustain and AoE damage. I'm running DW/FV until I can get back up to 4pc, then I'm going to have to relearn a new rotation. Mastery is the best secondary stat, then depending on who you ask, haste is the best or the worst secondary stat to get afterwards. It all depends on your gear, and most recommend running your own simulations on your own gear to see which stat you go for after mastery.

This level of complexity isnt needed for LFR, Normal, or some of Heroic, but once you start hitting DPS checks on the wing end bosses and blackhand and start pushing mythic, you need to start edging out your dps more. Blast furnace and Blackhand has high dps checks. Higher ilvl gear is not always better.



Yes the "preparation" for raids is much easier.
You dont have to buy buff reagents.
You dont have to farm soul shards before a raid.
You dont have to manually conjure food for everyone.
Flasks persist through death.
You respawn inside the raid instance instead of a GY a mile away.
You dont have to farm crafting mats in 5-man dungeons for raid gear.
You can repair without having to port back to town.
Tradeskills do not give direct stat benefits so you dont have to switch for BIS raiding.
You dont have to reforge every piece of gear every time you get an upgrade.
For those that used it, you dont have to run an extra mod to follow reforge recommendations like a lemming.

But if you found any of that "hard" or more importantly "fun" then the new the modern WoW isnt for those that reminisce on the "glory days".

I was always a massive fan of downranking heals. As someone who healed (and tanked too) from Vanilla-Current, that was the biggest thing they took out for me.

I'm not saying the game is any easier really (mythic proves this), but I'm not saying it's much harder either...sure you have to have 25 (usually not all 25) people doing the right thing at the right time, but there are those of us that just don't find most raiding aspects of the game difficult like the rest.

I think most of it stems from that fact that reminiscing on those "glory days" isn't really doing anyone any benefit. The game wasn't necessarily better or worse back then, but there seems to be a general notion (I've found this at least), that you can put in a lot less effort, and still get great results. I'm not pushed to make the best min/max decisions, because the time spent researching and proactively changing things around (not that there's really even anything to change around, i.e. USE THIS ONE GEM, and then ONLY THESE 4 ENCHANTS) doesn't equate to a significant increase in throughput.

Again, just what I've found. Then again, I've really completely lost interest in coming back, so the feeling of wanting to do things in the game has really waned the last few months.

wizzi01 said:
Glorified chat room? It is only a chat room if you want it to be a chat room. There is always the freedom to go to a different game.

No one said we couldn't go to a different game. I was just quoting Godmachine, and agreeing to a point, that logging in and doing a few mindless tasks WHILE talking to people, is OK in its on right.
 
Anyone else noticing the massive number of people starting new characters? A friend and I started up some new level 1s with the heirlooms and the leveling zones have been pretty solidly busy. The big bonus has been that even as dps, my LFG queue times have generally been under a minute. Took a flight from Darkshore to Ashenvale and didn't make it until I decided to stop instancing as I was going to go to bed soon since LFG was popping almost instantly.
 
Two and a half month bump...

I picked this up last weekend and had a lot of fun doing 90-100, but now I'm struggling to find things to do.

Where are the dailies? I've only been able to find one, the one in your garrison town hall that awards Apexis Crystals. Surely there are others? Is there anything else to do at 100 aside from dailies, maintaining your garrison, dungeons/raids, and PVP? I haven't played since early Cataclysm and don't really know what's been added or changed.
 
Flying is a no go for Draenor and future expansions. Finally Blizzard does something right!
http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/86...an-jungle-warlords-of-draenor-mmo-pc-blizzard

Something so right the subs continue to drop faster than ever before!
They should have handled it like they did previously, patched it in at a later date after everyone has done the content.

I'm not saying those 3 million or so drops all left because of no flying but it sure contributed.
 
Something so right the subs continue to drop faster than ever before!
They should have handled it like they did previously, patched it in at a later date after everyone has done the content.

I'm not saying those 3 million or so drops all left because of no flying but it sure contributed.

I dont understand why no flying is such a big fucking deal.
 
Something so right the subs continue to drop faster than ever before!
They should have handled it like they did previously, patched it in at a later date after everyone has done the content.

I'm not saying those 3 million or so drops all left because of no flying but it sure contributed.

I unsubbed due to 1. no flying 2. content goes through fast 3. nothing much to do
 
I dont understand why no flying is such a big fucking deal.

Let me know when you give up your car/bus transportation and walk everywhere you want to go. I'm sure you'd love it.

It's a game for god sake, if you don't want to fly don't but them removing it from the game is ridiculous and their reasoning is even worse. If they didn't want any flying they should have made the worth less mountainous. Added faster land movement would have been nice as well. Hell I'd be happy if once per hour I could fly for 20 seconds just to get to some of the high spots or come back down (without having to buy something or craft it).
 
I quit with the 3 million people because there wasn't anything to do outside of raiding so I don't play the game anymore...

To me it seems like with no flying they don't have to do as much work (like in ghostlands? and whatever that capitol up there is called) they can make the new zones much smaller etc...


I don't really get the reasoning, I've heard they didn't like that people could fly right into a quest area and get a quest item then fly out but there are easy ways of making areas seem dangerous without removing flying but as with the art, after the first time you just want to get shit done as fast as possible

They want people to enjoy the art in zones which is cool the first time then after that who cares? its the same shit you've been seeing for ages

World pvp, people said flying killed it but there has been no flying for a while now and its still not back so whats the deal? people said flying was making the world seem empty but in MoP I could not go more then a few yards without bumping into tons of people even late in the expansion, in WoD I stopped seeing people out in the world once I was finished questing so what happened there? I thought no flying was suppose to make people go out in the world?


PVP servers should have flying disabled that way all that amazing world pvp that is going down right now will continue
PVE servers should use the same system as previous expansions, you purchase flying once you reach max level
 
I dont understand why no flying is such a big fucking deal.

And I have never understood the people who like to fuck about with only ground mounts and flight paths. Why are flight paths ok? Remove that shit too! You don't like flying, then don't fly, but don't shit all over it for the rest of us. Flying was in since BC, then suddenly in WoD it's a problem? Though to be honest, there is no reason to leave the garrison anyway, other than raiding. But, once the bosses are down a couple times, raiding is "same old shit, different week" tedium. Damn, WoD is boring.
 
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I quit with the 3 million people because there wasn't anything to do outside of raiding so I don't play the game anymore...

To me it seems like with no flying they don't have to do as much work (like in ghostlands? and whatever that capitol up there is called) they can make the new zones much smaller etc...


I don't really get the reasoning, I've heard they didn't like that people could fly right into a quest area and get a quest item then fly out but there are easy ways of making areas seem dangerous without removing flying but as with the art, after the first time you just want to get shit done as fast as possible

They want people to enjoy the art in zones which is cool the first time then after that who cares? its the same shit you've been seeing for ages

World pvp, people said flying killed it but there has been no flying for a while now and its still not back so whats the deal? people said flying was making the world seem empty but in MoP I could not go more then a few yards without bumping into tons of people even late in the expansion, in WoD I stopped seeing people out in the world once I was finished questing so what happened there? I thought no flying was suppose to make people go out in the world?


PVP servers should have flying disabled that way all that amazing world pvp that is going down right now will continue
PVE servers should use the same system as previous expansions, you purchase flying once you reach max level

Agreed 1000%!!
 
3 million people came back and quit because they realized it's still the same game, just a different day. After 10 years who wouldn't be tired of a game. Blizzard is in an odd situation where they can't dramatically change the core of the game without alienating their dedicated playerbase, but as a result returning players quickly become burned out due to it being the 'same old'. It really didn't help that PVP was an afterthought as usual, and Ashran was an absolute trainwreck.

The diminishing subscribers really hit my server hard. Depending on the census site, it's between 15-30% horde (PVP). As a result we'd constantly cycle people out for raids and never get a solid group going. Eventually we just couldn't find people at all and I quit. And I don't like the game enough to pay for a transfer.
 
All I really do in WOW these days is log in to check if there is a HM or BRF spoils garrison mission.
 
Flying is a no go for Draenor and future expansions. Finally Blizzard does something right!
http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/86...an-jungle-warlords-of-draenor-mmo-pc-blizzard

And with that announcement I take my leave.. not just for Warcraft.. but from any Blizzard Entertainment product permanently. They are now added to my boycott list and I will NOT suggest any of their games to friends/family/etc. They do not deserve another dollar of mine or anyone's money for the way they have handled this and other issues. Its not just flying.. its a multitude of things.. always skirting around issues and him-halling about how they may add/fix.. or outright IGNORING. There are issues we reported in WoD beta that are still not fixed.. no eta was well..

I'm just done with them and their crap. It is with a heavy heart that I leave.. been playing the game for 10 years now.. but THEY IN THEIR INCOMPETENCE made the decision VERY easy.

Hell we had to find out from a THIRD PARTY source regarding this issue. There are many MANY problems with this game right now.. and flying was just the straw that broke the camels back.

My Goodbye on their forums:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17597939626?page=382#7622
 
This thread reminded me I haven't played since last year but my sub is still ongoing.

Now, to cancel or not? I've been paying since day 1 so feels like a milestone to cancel..
 
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