Would like some brand advice about case fans

[Hallis]

Hey there,

I figured this should go into the Case Mod section since its not directly related to CPU cooling. I'm putting together a mATX system in a Lan-Gear "Da Box 100" case. With the current way things are looking i'm going to be needing two 120x120x25mm and one 80x80x25mm fan for this. It's been quite a long time since ive purchased fans and wanted to get some ideas of good brand names. Here are some points that might help.

1. I'd like the fans to be somewhat quiet but they don't have to be silent by any means. I'd just like them to not sound like hair dryers like the old 1amp Deltas and Vantec Tornados I used to have back in the day.

2. These are case fans: Not mounted on a CPU cooler.

3. NO LED LIGHTS!!!!!

4. If i had to pick pressure or velocity i'd pick velocity in these instances.

5. Would prefer 3-pin fan-header style connectors.

6. Would prefer that they are not totally clear plastic. That just looks cheap.

I want good reliable fans but would like to stay away from the pricy Noctua models. Although I am quite fond of their CPU Heatsinks. So if they are the best for my application then i'll get them.

Give me some direction.

Shane

 

[hiodie]

Not sure what your price limit is, but I would recommend either Scythe Slip Streams (probably 1200rpm or less) or Nexus Basic. You could do Scythe S-Flex or Gentle Typhoons, but they are almost as much as Noctuas.

 

[Siorus]

Quiet fan manufacturers rank something like this:
Best:
Sanyo Denki (my preference), EBM Papst, Nidec, Scythe Gentle Typhoon (built by Nidec)

Better:
Delta (they do make some quiet fans), NMB-MAT (Mineba, AKA Panaflo)

Acceptable:
Scythe S-Flex, Noctua, Nexus

Cheap:
Yate Loon, Cooler Master, Lian Li, Scythe SlipStream


Papst fans are probably going to be too pricey for what you want (they're typically $30-60 each); Sanyo Denkis would be great, but they're hard to get (www.newark.com sells them in the US, but because they sell mainly to businesses they don't handle orders the way most people want them to; you're not going to know what your shipping costs are until after they've billed you. Figure $10-25 for 3 fans depending on how you have them shipped), and you'll need to put the connectors on them yourself-and the fans themselves will run about $20-25 each.

If you don't want to spend that much, I'd go with the Gentle Typhoons, and barring those, I'd go with either the Deltas or S-Flexes; I wouldn't go any lower-end than that though. Also, I looked up the specs on the Da Box case, Lan-Gear says it takes 2x 92s in addition to the 2 120s, I'm not sure what you need the 80mm for.

What specific fans you choose are going to depend on how you define quiet, but I'll give you a couple of examples of what I'd go with:

2x Sanyo Denki 9S1212F401 120x25/70CFM/30dB, 2x Sanyo Denki 9S0912F401 92x25/45CFM/27dB & 1x Sanyo Denki 9A0812H401 80x25/36CFM/29dB

You may find that a little noisy, though; you could substitute the 9S1212M401, 9S0912M401, and 9S0812M401 (all of which Newark carries) if you wanted quieter (though that still wouldn't be silent; it would be relatively quiet though). If you go this route you'll also need one Molex housing, Newark Part #38C9145 and three Molex Pin Connectors, Newark Part #34H3328 per fan. You can crimp the terminals with a pair of needlenose pliers. They're expensive, and they're a hassle, but they're really, really, really good fans. I use them in most of my builds now (unless I need something right away and don't have time to order them). They're worth the extra cost and work, imo.

If that's too much hassle for you, go with 2 1850rpm or 1450rpm 120x25mm Scythe Gentle Typhoons, 2 2650rpm 92mm Scythe Gentle Typhoons and 1 M1B or L1B 80mm Panaflo.

 

[zero2dash]

80mm+quiet really doesn't exist, either the airflow/CFM will be ridiculously low or they'll be 30dB+. 80mm is so small, there really isn't much in the way of good 80mm fans, TBH with you. I'd just get some low Yates; mediums aren't much better, and the other fans out there you'll pay more for but really won't get much performance boost. Seems like 80mm has about a 1:1 ratio on CFM and dB (ie 28 CFM, 28dB).

120mm is a whole other ball of wax.
I have (roughly) 9 SFF21E (S-Flex), 4 NF-P12's (Noctua's), and a lot of Yates (6 D12SH-12's for heatsinks, the rest are D12SL-12's for case fans). Is there a difference between a $3 Yate and a $13 S-Flex? Sure. The S-Flex are slightly quieter, CFM difference is pretty neglible. First I bought Yates, then S-Flex, then P12's. (for various systems) If you really want to get good fans, get either S-Flex or Gentle Typhoons (a lot of people swear on GT's). If you really don't care much, get Yates. Case fans - D12SL-12's, you don't need ridiculous airflow for case fans and it really ain't going to do much other than add noise. High speed for HSF is understandable, but I wouldn't use high speed or really even medium speed for case fans.

There are some people out there who will argue Petra Tech Shop's Yates being "real" vs. Jab-Tech's being "fake", curvatures in the blades, other stuff, etc. John (owner of JT) has said before he gets his straight from Yate Loon, so he doesn't understand where this rumor that he's buying knock-off fans (from some midget in a dark alley in China ) comes from. (or something like that...google it if you're really curious)

Out of what I have, I prefer the S-Flex to the P12's. IMHO P12's have a louder airflow "whoosh" sound to them compared to the S-Flex SFF21E's. Noctua fans are real nice and they have a lot of bonuses (sleeved cable, undervolt adapters, rubber grommet screws), but I still think Noctua fans are overrated. Maybe I'm more picky than others, but I think fans and spending a lot on fans is sorta a silly idea. Take 1 or 2 quiet fans by themselves, they will be quiet. Stick 5+ in a single case and turn it on, it's not going to be that same quiet. You may get 20dB fans, but when you have 5 of them, they run closer to 30-40dB (guesstimating). Just something to consider...

 

[Siorus]

80mm+quiet really doesn't exist, either the airflow/CFM will be ridiculously low or they'll be 30dB+. 80mm is so small, there really isn't much in the way of good 80mm fans, TBH with you. I'd just get some low Yates; mediums aren't much better, and the other fans out there you'll pay more for but really won't get much performance boost.

Not exactly; there are 80x25mm fans that have a much better than 1:1 airflow to noise ratio. You just have to pay for a decent fan.

Ex:
Sanyo Denki 9A0812H401: 29dB, 37CFM
Sanyo Denki 9S0812M401: 22dB, 29CFM
Sanyo Denki 109R0812H4021: 26dB, 33CFM
Sanyo Denki 9S0812L401: 16dB, 23CFM
Papst 8412NGM: 26dB, 34CFM
Papst 8412NMLE: 21dB, 27CFM
Papst 8412NGMLV: 19dB, 27CFM

It's also worth noting that the CFM and/or dB ratings on a lot of cheap fans are at best optimistic and at worst absolute bullshit. YL may be an exception to that rule, but unless the company has a solid presence in OEM/industrial applications (e.g. Delta, Papst, Sanyo Denki, Nidec, NMB-MAT, Comair Rotron, etc.) their specifications should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if they sound rather outlandish (I'm looking at you, CoolerMaster, with your "17dB 90CFM" fans).

spending a lot on fans is sorta a silly idea

To each their own, but you do get what you pay for if you buy the right fans.

Take 1 or 2 quiet fans by themselves, they will be quiet. Stick 5+ in a single case and turn it on, it's not going to be that same quiet. You may get 20dB fans, but when you have 5 of them, they run closer to 30-40dB (guesstimating). Just something to consider...

That's not necessarily true at all. It can be, but it depends more on component selection (specifically, your case, your fans, and your heatsinks) than anything else. For instance, my Phenom system is in a CM-590 with 3 120mm exhaust fans and 3 120mm intake fans, plus a 120mm fan on the CPU. It pulls somewhere around 870w from the wall under full load and even then, power supply fan aside (and that's just because it's a 1kW TurboCool) it's extremely quiet. I built an i7 960 box last week with 3 120mm exhaust fans, 1 120mm intake fan and another 120 on the CPU that's nigh on inaudible. I built a 6 core AMD box the week before, also with 3 120mm exhaust fans and a single 120mm intake, but with two thermally controlled 92mm fans on the CPU. Not as quiet as the i7 under 100% load thanks to the 92mm fans and the craptacular heatsink (CM GeminII), but still totally inoffensive. Built a Q9650 system last year in a CM590, again with 3 120mm exhausts, a single 120mm intake and a 120mm CPU fan that's so quiet, the only way to tell if it's on or not is to look at the power LED. In fact, all of them are quieter than my Q6600/8600GT work desktop with a single 120mm intake and exhaust and a 120mm CPU fan, since the fans in that need to run at much higher speeds to keep temperatures under control.

 

[Hallis]

Good information here guys. I love free discussion. Keep it going.

I don't want cheap fans. And if i really need to to get a good quality fan i'll get the Noctuas. I do like the idea of the undervold in-line adapters rather than using software fan speed control. And the rubberized sleeving on their cables is top knotch. I plan on sleeving my fans anyway, in black, so getting Noctuas will save me a step.

I may do a mixture of make/models as it seems like spending the money on a good 80mm is likely going to benefit me in the dBA/cfm rating.

 

[zero2dash]

Not exactly; there are 80x25mm fans that have a much better than 1:1 airflow to noise ratio. You just have to pay for a decent fan.

IMHO 80mm fans are not worth spending $10+ per fan on because they don't move enough airflow to justify the cost (IMO). Paying extra for a higher CFM 80mm fan is not going to make as much of a cooling impact as paying extra for a higher CFM 120mm fan. Personally I avoid cases that have 80mm fan mounts. Worst case I'd buy a 92mm fan with 80mm mount holes (of which Scythe makes several) if I needed to add cooling to a spot with 80mm holes.

It's also worth noting that the CFM and/or dB ratings on a lot of cheap fans are at best optimistic and at worst absolute bullshit. YL may be an exception to that rule, but unless the company has a solid presence in OEM/industrial applications (e.g. Delta, Papst, Sanyo Denki, Nidec, NMB-MAT, Comair Rotron, etc.) their specifications should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if they sound rather outlandish (I'm looking at you, CoolerMaster, with your "17dB 90CFM" fans).

YL are the only cheap fans with real ratings.
Antec, CM, Logisys, Apevia etc. are BS.

That's not necessarily true at all. It can be, but it depends more on component selection (specifically, your case, your fans, and your heatsinks) than anything else. [snip]

I didn't say they wouldn't be quiet; I said people who buy low noise fans and expect to put 5 in a case and have the same 20dB rating as a single non-mounted fan are kidding themselves. 5 fans, 20dB each does not equal 20dB total case noise. Undervolting via resistor or running behind a fan controller can make all the difference in the world, but personally fan noise doesn't really bother me (especially given that I fold 24/7 so my system is constantly at full load)...I run all my fans 12v, I don't use resistors or fan controllers.

It also depends on where the case is in relation to where your head is. Cases on the floor will be quieter because they're farther away vs. cases on a desk, but cases on the floor get hit with more dust. My cases are on my desks. They're quiet, but having my head close to multiple intake fans, I hear them. If my FT02 or 300 were on the floor, I wouldn't hear them.

 

[blivit4]

FWIW, Gentle Typhoon, Nidec site: http://www.nidec.com/fanpdfs/d1225c.pdf

 

[Siorus]

IMHO 80mm fans are not worth spending $10+ per fan on...[snip]

You're correct on all points, of course. And I can totally understand not being able to justify spending money on 80mm fans; I try to avoid them myself if I can for the same reason; even a good one is going to be rather loud to get decent airflow out of it.

I don't want cheap fans. And if i really need to to get a good quality fan i'll get the Noctuas. I do like the idea of the undervold in-line adapters rather than using software fan speed control. And the rubberized sleeving on their cables is top knotch. I plan on sleeving my fans anyway, in black, so getting Noctuas will save me a step.

Everywhere that I've seen the Noctuas they run about $20-$25 per fan. I've used about half a dozen of them; they're OK but they're nothing special-they're certainly not worth $25 each. The Scythe S-Flexes are just as good and they're $5-10 cheaper per fan. The Gentle Typhoons are better than the Noctuas and they're also cheaper. You can get inline voltage adapters from SVC; there are a bunch of them listed here, although I've never had a problem with software fan control.

If you insist on getting the Noctuas, get the "P" series; pressure and velocity go hand in hand and even in a case as open as the Lan-Gear, chances are you'll see measurably better airflow using the P12s than the S12s.

You might find this video that I did comparing a few case fans interesting; it's hardly scientific but I think the results are interesting nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtpK646faVE

Also keep in mind that when you're dealing with a family of fans, you can always buy the highest speed one and undervolt it to perform like a lower speed fan from the same family; that is, an 1850rpm Gentle Typhoon at 1450rpm should produce identical numbers (subject to manufacturing variations) as the 1450rpm Gentle Typhoon, while giving you the option of running it faster if you're not happy with the temps.

And one other thing... Higher speed fans will, to a point, typically undervolt better than lower speed fans of the same family (i.e. the 1850rpm gentle typhoon might start and run at 4v, the 800rpm fan might require 7v or whatever) because they have more powerful motors that can generate enough torque to turn the impeller over at a lower voltage than a less powerful motor could. Potentially, this means that you can actually get a higher speed fan to turn slower and be quieter than a lower speed fan from the same family-although that's by no means a hard and fast rule. My experience has been that you can generally get a good quality (The S-Flex and the Gentle Typhoon both qualify) relatively high speed 120mm fan (something that flows as much as 70-90cfm or thereabouts) to run slowly enough to be considered quiet, for what that's worth.

 

[E.T]

If you insist on getting the Noctuas, get the "P" series; pressure and velocity go hand in hand and even in a case as open as the Lan-Gear, chances are you'll see measurably better airflow using the P12s than the S12s.

While for same fan static pressure scales in direct relation to speed blade design/geometry has as much to do with it.
S12's huge hole area betweewn blades and gap from blade tip to frame makes it leak air back with least back pressure or pressure difference between sides of fan. (that's also why it's quiet: it's simply unable to really push air)

P12's motor again has very strong steps so it's no wonder than it tends to vibrate.
(just push it with finger or blow air and it stops jerkily instead of slowing down smoothly)

And one other thing... Higher speed fans will, to a point, typically undervolt better than lower speed fans of the same family (i.e. the 1850rpm gentle typhoon might start and run at 4v, the 800rpm fan might require 7v or whatever) because they have more powerful motors that can generate enough torque to turn the impeller over at a lower voltage than a less powerful motor could.

Which is about meaningless acoustically when rpm at minimum starting voltage is probably same in practise...
That's assuming heavy rpm decrease doesn't cause high speed fan to make extra noises so unless wanting leaf blower performance and noise medium speed fans are better choises for undervolting.

 

[Hallis]

I picked up some of the Gentle Typhoons from FrozenCPU. They were out of the 1800's but i got the 1450s. Newegg was also out of the 1800's. And I was already ordering a lot of stuff from Frozen so went ahead and got the 1450's. And one of their 80's. hope to get them in soon.

Thanks for all the input guys,

Shane