mullet
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2004
- Messages
- 2,630
The FASTEST way to power Ai mega computer systems is with NAT Gas power plants. Every thing else takes to long.
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I assume the salt problem applies to fast reactors as well. Besides fast reactors, is there a viable way of using U-238 as fuel for power or is that the only way?There's zero talk of them in the real world nuclear industry. We are talking about PWR/BWR SMR's though, and large 1200MWe+ units. My company is licensed for one already, and not too long ago we solicited the state legislature for allocation of a loan to break ground and start construction.
But yeah, we've done molten salt before. My office is right next to what used to be one. They are an extreme pain to perform any type of work on, and to operate reliably. Any areas in the primary loop (or even secondary loop where sodium is used) where there's any sort of flow eddy or disruption, you get solidification of the sodium. Then it all just goes downhill from there...
So far every "cool" online pipedream I've seen uses fuel in the primary loop not within fuel rods. That makes maintenance impossible or not even feasible cost-wise due to long-term fission products coating everything you need to perform maintenance on -- a person isn't getting anywhere near it, and it embrittles all the components with neutron flux, requiring replacement at an even higher rate. We don't even have materials available for seals and motor winding coatings that can withstand that type of abuse anyhow for extended operation like you'd see on an electrical grid. So that brings you back to fuel in fuel rods and the whole flow eddy discussion where you can't maintain temperatures/cooling properly and end up with a fuel melt. Beyond that, the corrosiveness factor is off the charts. We have a hard enough time with just boron corrosion in PWR's, so MSR's bring a 100x factor to that problem.
It's not like the new pit production isn't without it's challenges.Breeder reactors are really the only economical way in terms of commercial power production. But they're shunned and frowned upon politically due to the easy jump to nuclear weapons production. However that isn't even how we make weapons grade material anymore. We just use laser isotope separation. It can be done in an area the size of a home basement and consumes a pretty low amount of power.
On its own no. U238 is not a neutron source. However under neutron flux it does give us Pu-239 which is fissile.I assume the salt problem applies to fast reactors as well. Besides fast reactors, is there a viable way of using U-238 as fuel for power or is that the only way?
They're somewhat quicker to build, but they drive up natural gas prices due to sucking down millions of cubic feet per day, driving up demand.
This is so not my area of expertise, but is that similar to the BWRX-300 that Ontario is beginning construction on? Granted, only a 300MW unit.There's zero talk of them in the real world nuclear industry. We are talking about PWR/BWR SMR's though, and large 1200MWe+ units. My company is licensed for one already, and not too long ago we solicited the state legislature for allocation of a loan to break ground and start construction.
I didn't say we didn't have enough. I said it just drives up prices for consumers due to the increased demand. That's fine if you're ok with that, but I'd rather have cheaper natural gas to heat my home and hot water heater.LOL, we have more NAT gas then we know what to do with. Hell look at North Dakota at night on a sat image, it looks like NYC all lit up. That is not lights it's nat gas vents burning it off. We have enough to run the US for 200 years.
Yeah, that's a new SMR design, a boiling water reactor. They're meant to be easy to construct with most of the components able to be shipped via rail and truck. Smaller EP-zone, less maintenance required, better passive safety systems, etc. Darlington is supposed to be building them soon. I have a few contacts there I talk with every so often.This is so not my area of expertise, but is that similar to the BWRX-300 that Ontario is beginning construction on? Granted, only a 300MW unit.
When I see or hear of these large solar farms, I always think how much more stable MW capacity could be generated on the same footprint with Thorium molten salt reactors. And without the fragility and unstable nature of solar power production, it would remove the eyesore while delivering more reliable grid power.
China World's First Thorium ReactorThere is currently no approved reactor design at this time, that would be the major hurdle. Once a design is approved you would probably see commercial units within 5 years. They are at least far closer to becoming a possibility than Fusion reactors.
https://nypost.com/2025/05/05/scien...-a-surprising-rebound-in-mass-scientists-say/"...As the climate crisis accelerates..."![]()
They already have it all dug out. They have only been waiting for the CNSC approval. They got the green light from the province and the CNSC this past week, game on.I didn't say we didn't have enough. I said it just drives up prices for consumers due to the increased demand. That's fine if you're ok with that, but I'd rather have cheaper natural gas to heat my home and hot water heater.
Yeah, that's a new SMR design, a boiling water reactor. They're meant to be easy to construct with most of the components able to be shipped via rail and truck. Smaller EP-zone, less maintenance required, better passive safety systems, etc. Darlington is supposed to be building them soon. I have a few contacts there I talk with every so often.
China World's First Thorium Reactor
It's also molten salt and meltdown proof.
US is falling behind.
"The U.S. Invented It. China Made It Work.
The concept of molten salt thorium reactors (MSRs) was pioneered by the United States during the 1960s at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Despite their potential, the U.S. abandoned the research in favor of uranium-based designs better suited for nuclear submarines and weapons development.
Decades later, China dusted off these declassified blueprints and invested billions in advancing the technology. In 2021, China’s Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics (SINAP) completed construction of a 2-megawatt experimental thorium reactor in the Gobi Desert. Now, it’s fully operational — a global first.
...
Thorium reactor technology was once an American innovation. But short-term defense goals, budget constraints, and political inertia pushed it into obscurity.
Now, the U.S. faces a scenario where it must import — or license — a technology it originally created. Unless urgent action is taken, this could become yet another example of lost scientific leadership."
Of course, the article writer goes sideways at the end and reminds us of why the US lost scientific leadership, "...As the climate crisis accelerates..."![]()
Well in this case I don't think I'd be skeptical, I'd just say this has been blown out of proportion. From multiple sitesJust going to say, I am highly skeptical of anything China claims to have done. But the reality is we would never use a Chinese design in the US for a reactor. If their much bigger reactor works in 2030 or so then they will turn heads. Also to be fair America has always done better when pushed, rather than left to our own devices.
that is NOT a fully functioning power plant, this is a test facility, nothing more, and for point of emphasis the MSRE that the US built to test the idea in the mid 60s was about 4 times as much thermal energy. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way poopooing on what China is doing, good for them and all their research they are pushing, but lets not pretend they have a fully functional plant putting commercial levels of power out there, this is a testing facility for the technology, nothing more.The reactor is reportedly designed to sustainably generate 2 megawatts of thermal power.
The US built a standard, uranium based reactor. This is thorium based - first of it's kind.for point of emphasis the MSRE that the US built to test the idea in the mid 60s was about 4 times as much thermal energy.
So China is over 60 years behind, go China.Because it is a pointless waste of money. We did all that back in the late 50's and early 60's and figured it out already.
No, the US built a TEST reactor, they didn't put the thorium blanket in because they were more concerned with seeing what the neutron flux was like more so than breeding additional fuel. And I hate to break it to you, but their reactor is also uranium based, thorium doesn't make energy it's used as a seed to create more uranium which is the nuclear fuel that is being used.The US built a standard, uranium based reactor. This is thorium based - first of it's kind.
Reality is, China is doing it, we're not.
I thought it was moreThe "waste problem" is what these grifters are trying to solve
They better, because if they are going to plug me into a machine to keep me complaint and violate laws of thermodynamics to turn me into a battery I'm going to be all sorts of Neo level of pissedThe robots will need it when they take over the human race.
End the cycle of violence, bruh!They better, because if they are going to plug me into a machine to keep me complaint and violate laws of thermodynamics to turn me into a battery I'm going to be all sorts of Neo level of pissed
Since this turned into a nuclear natrium nerdout:
View: https://youtu.be/N6oSo9EA8OY?si=G104BrcwbK-Irda6