World of Warcraft: Shadowlands

I'm just leveling different classes. I have like five at level 35. Just messing around. No real drive to even play. I can't see myself getting any more into it.

Honestly that's the only way to play WoW today. Ultra casual, stay under level 50 and avoid Shittylands at all costs.
 
Honestly that's the only way to play WoW today. Ultra casual, stay under level 50 and avoid Shittylands at all costs.
That's sort of what I'm doing. Like maps in Path of Exile. Run a few dungeons, switch class. Only tank and heals, no DPS. queue is like 30m.
 
Got a bit of an itch to play some WoW recently. I had not played since whatever expansion Blood Elves and Drenai came in, but was looking for a good MMO experience since burning out on SWTOR. I ended up just finding a private server, MoP era. Just dont see myself going back to anything subscription based, especially Blizzard
 
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Got a bit of an itch to play some WoW recently. I had not played since whatever expansion Blood Elves and Drenai came in, but was looking for a good MMO experience since burning out on SWTOR. I ended up just finding a private server, MoP era. Just dont see myself going back to anything subscription based, especially Blizzard

TBH I liked MoP way more than I ever thought I would; it's a pretty solid version of the game to be playing on.
 
How do you find that kind of MOP server to play on? And what character can you use? Do you need to create a brand new one and level it up?
 
Yeah I watched that too, pretty much spot on to one of WoWs many problems. Too many hoops and chores to do to get anywhere in the game. The game does not respect your time and makes you waste it chasing after borrowed power that is gone by the next expansion.
 
That video really is great discussing brand new players trying out WoW.

It's beyond overwhelming if you've never played WoW before and just jump in right now. First you gotta level up to 60, then gear up, get your Covenant and Renown up, and Soulbinds, then Legendary, and use all these different currencies.

It's a turnoff to most new players, they'll be like, what? I gotta do what exactly? All this time consuming confusing stuff just to be able to Raid or M+? F this I'm out.

Patch 9.2 is just more of the same time gaiting BS, more systems, new currency, can't fly right away until you do this and that.

I sure hope 10.0 is a massive reset for WoW and all these "systems" and currencies and borrowed power go away.
 
All I've been doing is leveling different characters. They're all at 40something. I'll tank some. heal some. then log off. I already know I'm not going to stick with it.
 
That video really is great discussing brand new players trying out WoW.

It's beyond overwhelming if you've never played WoW before and just jump in right now. First you gotta level up to 60, then gear up, get your Covenant and Renown up, and Soulbinds, then Legendary, and use all these different currencies.

It's a turnoff to most new players, they'll be like, what? I gotta do what exactly? All this time consuming confusing stuff just to be able to Raid or M+? F this I'm out.

Patch 9.2 is just more of the same time gaiting BS, more systems, new currency, can't fly right away until you do this and that.

I sure hope 10.0 is a massive reset for WoW and all these "systems" and currencies and borrowed power go away.
This is how I feel about Destiny 2. For me it's hard to think how hard it is for new players since I have been playing since closed beta, all I can say is that things took a lot longer in vanilla then it takes now, and from what I have seen of this vid he is like I hit max lvl where is my max lvl gear, they should mail it to you iso of playing to get it.

These guys seem to be more into instant gratification then playing the game.

Some systems in game have been changed so you can do them much faster now then at launch, but saying that does not get you any views on youtube.

When my guild changed server I made a fresh toon on that server, I have 3 days playtime and can start in the first raid if I wanted too without problems, and that is without realy trying to get tot hat point.

That does not mean that the game does not have it's share of issues, why they made every new area in the game a seperate mini continent is beyond me and an utter waste of time, the covenants add little to the game other then 4 mini campaigns which are vastly different in difficulty. but while the game is a mess you don't need to put in 100's of hours to be able to do endgame content unless you are an extreme min-maxxer.
 
I'd almost be up for a season or something in Warcraft. Once a month, everything gets wiped. However, that's probably just the Path of Exile speaking.
 
In all reality, it's never been easier for a new player, in my opinion. Some of you complaining that people have to level to 60 and then other useless garbage .. it used to take you MONTHS to hit 60.

I leveled a character with a friend of mine after shadowlands released and we were level 60 within a few days. AND I leveled a race I had never done before so I didn't know the quest locations or anything.

Now, if this was TBC and people were still complaining, or when level 100 was a thing, or whenever it was before you got level gifts or the ability to buy them. In this reality you spent months leveling characters in zones that were ghost towns because everyone was off in the new content. So you couldn't do elite quests, or really any quest 3 levels above you without having a high chance of dying. I leveled a warrior this last time and was walking allllllll over elite mobs my level and anything a few levels over like nothing.

The game has become easy mode. Boo hoo that it has more than one currency and people get the big scared. I'm not an asshole in the game and I'll help anyone who asks in zone chat, but fuck me, how much easier can this game get?
 
The game has become easy mode. Boo hoo that it has more than one currency and people get the big scared. I'm not an asshole in the game and I'll help anyone who asks in zone chat, but fuck me, how much easier can this game get?
It is easy. But, there are just so many chores and dailies. That's what kills it for me. I have to do Torghast. I have to do...that place where you can't mount. I have to grind out all my reknowns. I have finish my legendary quests. I have to complete my covenants.

I really just want to log in, and run dungeons. That's it. Maybe an occasional raid if time allots for it.
 
It is easy. But, there are just so many chores and dailies. That's what kills it for me. I have to do Torghast. I have to do...that place where you can't mount. I have to grind out all my reknowns. I have finish my legendary quests. I have to complete my covenants.

I really just want to log in, and run dungeons. That's it. Maybe an occasional raid if time allots for it.
Then just so that, the rest is optional, I hate the maw and thorgast, I rarely go there, I leveled 20 toons and only go there when the story requires it, now with the new zone since the last patch you can even mount in the maw and get rid of the eye watching you so that is a big plus, not that I spend more time there now.
 
To me, leveling was the fun part of the game. Making the leveling experience easy and super fast necessitates the bloated endgame stuff that nobody really likes.
 
It is easy. But, there are just so many chores and dailies. That's what kills it for me. I have to do Torghast. I have to do...that place where you can't mount. I have to grind out all my reknowns. I have finish my legendary quests. I have to complete my covenants.

I really just want to log in, and run dungeons. That's it. Maybe an occasional raid if time allots for it.
Why do you NEED to do those things?

I get the grind, I really do. But compare this time to previous times. You could do 15 daily quests a day (maybe 10) and that was it. So if you already raided (which most weren't able to do) all you had left was dailies, which took an hour if you had played to that point.

So after raiding you had an hour a day of things to do. People complained heavily that they need more to do, there isn't enough content. Now there is.

For you and I, we were slowly integrated into this. So first we started with two things to do, then 4, then 10, you know? So the first couple we were already familiar with and it might be overwhelming for new players but nothing says they NEED to do all the available content.

Take pets for example. Some people do nothing but collect them. Some people do pet battles. I didn't start collecting pets until BoA because I ran out of things to do, at least things that I felt were interesting.

I guess at the end of my rambling, my point is this. There are 10000 things to do, but none of them are actually required for the casual player. They can pick and choose the couple they want. Used to be that you only had a couple and people complained then.

No one is ever happy.
 
Then just so that, the rest is optional, I hate the maw and thorgast, I rarely go there, I leveled 20 toons and only go there when the story requires it, now with the new zone since the last patch you can even mount in the maw and get rid of the eye watching you so that is a big plus, not that I spend more time there now.
Maw, that's what I was thinking. So you can mount there? Well, that's a huge help. That annoyed the shit out of me. I only made druids because of travel form to get around there.

As far as optional, ehhhh. I suppose, but you're going to be hindered without completing all that stuff. "only go there when the story requires it"- and that's sort of what I mean. You have to farm soul dust for your legendaries. That sort of thing. Legendaries used to be something that was end game and a rare moment, now (correct me if I'm wrong) they make or break a class/build.

Why do you NEED to do those things?

I get the grind, I really do. But compare this time to previous times. You could do 15 daily quests a day (maybe 10) and that was it. So if you already raided (which most weren't able to do) all you had left was dailies, which took an hour if you had played to that point.

So after raiding you had an hour a day of things to do. People complained heavily that they need more to do, there isn't enough content. Now there is.

For you and I, we were slowly integrated into this. So first we started with two things to do, then 4, then 10, you know? So the first couple we were already familiar with and it might be overwhelming for new players but nothing says they NEED to do all the available content.

Take pets for example. Some people do nothing but collect them. Some people do pet battles. I didn't start collecting pets until BoA because I ran out of things to do, at least things that I felt were interesting.

I guess at the end of my rambling, my point is this. There are 10000 things to do, but none of them are actually required for the casual player. They can pick and choose the couple they want. Used to be that you only had a couple and people complained then.

No one is ever happy.
Like said above, you need to grind out the requirements for your legendary. Not having both legendaries really sets you back. The covenants are another time sink. Then there are the dailies. I mean, I can see them as a side thing for certain mounts or transmogs, sure. But they're integrated into the class making them pretty much a requirement.

I mean, I understand how we got here. I also get how everyone's playstyle can change. At one point, I was in a top 20 guild, top geared resto shaman on Bleeding Hollow, etc. We were cranking 80h+ a week, etc. And at one point, after raiding for 3h, we'd be down for farming something else or finishing up dailies. Now, I get maybe 2h a night. Hell, the past three nights I wasn't able to log into any game, at all. So real life has become far more important that I cannot to commit to these time gates and whatnot. I just want to simply log in, and raid or run a mythic without being denied into a +9 because I haven't done twenty +15s.

I think I've just outgrown the game to play how I'd like to. That's why I've been so involved with Path of Exile. I can play how I want. There's options for folks that log in for 10h a week, along with streamers playing 100h a week. It fits anyone.
 
The game's not hard, it's just become extremely time consuming to gear up for new people, and you have to admit is a bit confusing with all the numerous different things needed to get well geared.

Especially new players, you have to admit for a brand new player that just bought WoW for the first time and playing the game, it is very confusing once you DING max level, and then start your gearing up process. There's a shit ton of different stuff to do, and the game doesn't really spell it out for you, you need to watch YouTube videos, read website guides, go on Discord, just to figure out what the F to do in the game. In my opinion a game shouldn't be made where it's so confusing with new players feeling lost and overwhelmed on what to do.

I don't blame new players once reaching level 60, and then being like WTF is next? Oh I gotta do this and that and this before I'm even geared enough for LFR stuff. And new players being like, screw this, it's not a job, just a video game I play for fun, I'm out.

And I am not saying just give players high end gear for free with little work to get it, NO. I'm saying don't have all these different numerous systems and currencies and time-gating stuff to do, just to gear up, the game shouldn't be so confusing, it's a turnoff. And WoW didn't used to be like this, it was a bit more straightforward path to follow.
 
Alright, so I watched the video.

One of the main complaints is the amount of time required. He asks the chat how long they think it takes to start over, level from 1-60 and have optimal gear. The chat says 100 hours and he agrees and uses that number.

100 hours? Is that a joke?... People playing wow are not sitting down and playing 2 hours at a time. So, lets say, a conservative 3 hours, which I still think is slow for anyone who is actively seeking out an MMORPG. That is one month of 3 hours a day and you're max level with decent gear.

Bunch of babies.
 
The game's not hard, it's just become extremely time consuming to gear up for new people, and you have to admit is a bit confusing with all the numerous different things needed to get well geared.

Especially new players, you have to admit for a brand new player that just bought WoW for the first time and playing the game, it is very confusing once you DING max level, and then start your gearing up process. There's a shit ton of different stuff to do, and the game doesn't really spell it out for you, you need to watch YouTube videos, read website guides, go on Discord, just to figure out what the F to do in the game. In my opinion a game shouldn't be made where it's so confusing with new players feeling lost and overwhelmed on what to do.

I don't blame new players once reaching level 60, and then being like WTF is next? Oh I gotta do this and that and this before I'm even geared enough for LFR stuff. And new players being like, screw this, it's not a job, just a video game I play for fun, I'm out.

And I am not saying just give players high end gear for free with little work to get it, NO. I'm saying don't have all these different numerous systems and currencies and time-gating stuff to do, just to gear up, the game shouldn't be so confusing, it's a turnoff. And WoW didn't used to be like this, it was a bit more straightforward path to follow.
You said it better than I did.

It used to be max level, then start the grind of raiding. That's what the game was. I feel like the starting point of the decline was daily quests. The game peaked on Lich King, and I feel its been downhill since. I mean, shit like The Maw. No mounts, but that's good if they're allowed now, all the while sending you all over the map pretty much forcing you to fight wandering mobs was a time gate while dragging an anchor. It so obvious they're dragging it out for the player.
 
3 hours a day, every day straight for a month, is a lot of freaking time to sink into a game.

I haven't played WoW for 3 hours a time in years. Maybe 45 minutes or so, every other day.

Even Cyberpunk 2077 I just got into, I love the game and storyline and the cool world to experience, but I'm never playing it for 3 hours each time, maybe an hour or so.
 
You said it better than I did.

It used to be max level, then start the grind of raiding. That's what the game was. I feel like the starting point of the decline was daily quests. The game peaked on Lich King, and I feel its been downhill since. I mean, shit like The Maw. No mounts, but that's good if they're allowed now, all the while sending you all over the map pretty much forcing you to fight wandering mobs was a time gate while dragging an anchor. It so obvious they're dragging it out for the player.

Yeah, I agree with the WotLK part. That was the end of the good old days.

3 hours a day, every day straight for a month, is a lot of freaking time to sink into a game.

I haven't played WoW for 3 hours a time in years. Maybe 45 minutes or so, every other day.

Even Cyberpunk 2077 I just got into, I love the game and storyline and the cool world to experience, but I'm never playing it for 3 hours each time, maybe an hour or so.
It's a lot to sink for us old people. People who sank more than that when we were younger. As Westwood said above, he used to spend nearly 80 hours in a single week, and I did the same. So, just over a week and you're max level with gear? Crazy, even by the standards of WotLK.
 
People playing wow are not sitting down and playing 2 hours at a time.
ehm. That's about max time I get nowadays. Even then, that's on nights I able to log in. I haven't gamed in three days now I think.

And I feel like that's where the problem comes up. You have an entire generation of players that grew up on 40man raids that took six hours a night for three nights. And that was fine. Now those same people, have families, mortgages, careers, and whathaveyou that are trying to adjust their gameplay, but there's no real way to work around it. Those people are now competing with a player base that can play the 50h a week and its a struggle for them. You have two generations of gamers that are playing on the same court. So its a constant battling back and forth. Furthermore, the entire MMO genre is pretty much a washout of clones and lootboxes. Its just not a good scene overall.
 
ehm. That's about max time I get nowadays. Even then, that's on nights I able to log in. I haven't gamed in three days now I think.

And I feel like that's where the problem comes up. You have an entire generation of players that grew up on 40man raids that took six hours a night for three nights. And that was fine. Now those same people, have families, mortgages, careers, and whathaveyou that are trying to adjust their gameplay, but there's no real way to work around it. Those people are now competing with a player base that can play the 50h a week and its a struggle for them. You have two generations of gamers that are playing on the same court. So its a constant battling back and forth. Furthermore, the entire MMO genre is pretty much a washout of clones and lootboxes. Its just not a good scene overall.
Like I said.. new players looking for a new MMO aren't just you and I who are older and just fucking around. They are players actively seeking a game to play.
 
It's beyond overwhelming if you've never played WoW before and just jump in right now. First you gotta level up to 60, then gear up, get your Covenant and Renown up, and Soulbinds, then Legendary, and use all these different currencies.
In all reality, it's never been easier for a new player, in my opinion. Some of you complaining that people have to level to 60 and then other useless garbage .. it used to take you MONTHS to hit 60.

I can see both sides of this really.

I think if you are a new player, who plans to level up solo, the game is pretty easy. For my young nephew it seemed to work well and he got the hang of the game surprisingly quickly using their built-in tutorials.

But the massive amounts of scripted content, and having so many things gated, limits the amount that you can play with friends. Like for example, I had a friend that had not played since last expansion (BFA) and wanted to jump into shadowlands. Really, all we wanted to do was be able to jump in the game together and go level up somewhere together. There have been countless times over the years where I've helped someone with a lower-level character level up. Usually it would have simply involved going to where they were and helping them with quests, or grind mobs, run 5-man dungeons, etc. In shadowlands we ran into a big fat brick wall trying to do that. He was forced to be funneled through all of the shadowlands scripted intro content and I couldn't help him with any of it because his character was phased the entire time. And then when we got to the point where our characters could actually interact with each other in the world, he was still effectively gated behind all these scripted storylines about going to each covenant, exploring them, etc... In the end he never made it to 60 and seems to have given up. I REALLY feel that we should have just been able to jump in the game together and level however the hell we wanted to, and have each quest chain be more of an optional opportunity rather than a requirement. If I want to level from 50 to 60 doing nothing but killing random mobs in one zone, who the hell cares?

I mainly just play one character, but last time I tried to level my alt I ran into the exact same BS. I'm already familiar with the game, so for gods sake just let me play it. Having to spend literally days gated behind forced intro quests that aren't even fun is really lame. I believe they did actually implement a bypass (for alts, if your main already completed the quests), but it was too little too late (for my alt anyway), and doesn't help with situations such as I had with my friend who doesn't have a character on his account that already completed the quests yet.

So I think that if you are the kind of person who likes to have their hand-held, experiencing the game primarily via the linear, story-rich scripted content, then leveling up is not bad at all. If you are a player who enjoys the open-world freedom aspect of an MMO, being able to choose your own path and play the game however you want, leveling up really sucks in it's current form.
 
I used to level each of my toons to max level and get them decently geared when I took a break from my main char. This expansion pretty much made me not even want to do this, and it was a big struggle in BFA to even get them to max level. Legion was the last exp I looked forward to doing this, just to see the stories and order halls. I dont even want to do things like torghast on my main, much less on my alts over and over again, heck it was only just recently you can skip the intro part, and I dont even want to see the maw anymore. At least I can choose not to do it and am currently enjoying my break from the game.
 
I used to level each of my toons to max level and get them decently geared when I took a break from my main char. This expansion pretty much made me not even want to do this, and it was a big struggle in BFA to even get them to max level. Legion was the last exp I looked forward to doing this, just to see the stories and order halls. I dont even want to do things like torghast on my main, much less on my alts over and over again, heck it was only just recently you can skip the intro part, and I dont even want to see the maw anymore. At least I can choose not to do it and am currently enjoying my break from the game.

100% agree.

Legion in my opinion was the last "fun" WoW expansion. Then BfA was mediocre to somewhat bad. And now Shittylands, is well, just shit.
 
100% agree.

Legion in my opinion was the last "fun" WoW expansion. Then BfA was mediocre to somewhat bad. And now Shittylands, is well, just shit.
Legion was amazing. The raids were epic. BFA was a steaming pile. Haven’t played the new one and from everything I’ve read I don’t plan to.
 
I think a big theme for WoW would be so much potential wasted. With bobby sucking all the money out, with employees mismanaging both the game and employees, on top of contempt for their customers...this has led to where they are now paying the piper for all the years of problems and failure. Greed, laziness, arrogance, and contempt...thats act/blizz in a nutshell, they though they could put out shit and everyone would keep on buying it.
 
Legion was amazing. The raids were epic. BFA was a steaming pile. Haven’t played the new one and from everything I’ve read I don’t plan to.

Yeah that was the last exp they put any effort into, they knew they needed to do that after the disaster they ended up with WoD. Now they are content to release an even lazier WoD after WoD 2.0, and think the paypigs will just keep paying.
 
Legion was amazing. The raids were epic. BFA was a steaming pile. Haven’t played the new one and from everything I’ve read I don’t plan to.
Not like Suramar wasn't a huge gated timesink or the broken shore, and Argus imo was terrible.
 
Not like Suramar wasn't a huge gated timesink or the broken shore, and Argus imo was terrible.
The general feel of the game was fun to me though and especially the lore. I had fun grinding broken shore with my guild, especially having an all out war with demons spawning everywhere. I didn't mind Argus that much either, but Suramar wanted to make me gouge out my eyeballs. Especially all that stupid connecting of the Ley Line crap. Whoever thought of that is a masochist. Legion wasn't perfect, but it was the most fun I've had in WoW since the Lich King expansion.
 
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