Woo! I think I burnt my XFi!

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Pinipig523

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
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Several audioguys came by and we were just kicking around my system. We had this bright idea to use my PC as a transport to play CDs from and use the XFi digital out to stream into the PS Audio DAC.

I was fiddling with the coax cable w/ 3.5mm adapter, plugged it into the XFi digital out.

Computer froze.... restarted.... stalled at the bios window....

I reset the PC.... still stalled.....

Then I let the PC cool a little bit, cut all power from the wall. Turned PC on, this time it booted, loaded up to the Windows XP screen with the scrolling bar on the bottom... then reset. Over and over again.

Figured it was the OS that got screwed up, I reinstalled XP over the existing OS so as to preserve my data on the hdd..... I didnt reformat. XP loaded to windows screen.... then BSOD.

Anyway, I bought another hdd, installed XP on it, slaved the "broken hdd" and transferred the data. Reformatted the "broken" hdd.... and everything works again!

So I transferred the data from the new hdd to the original hdd... all is good, finally!

However, when I installed the XFi, the PC would restart within 10 seconds of booting to desktop! I pulled the XFi out and examined the PCB... found a little burn spot by the transistor/resistor nearest the digital out!!

Do you think a burnt out XFi can de-stabilize a system?

What I think happened was that the XFi was somehow shorted by the coaxial cable connecting to the DAC and stalled the PC.... so abruptly that it damaged the OS at certain sectors of the hdd.

What do you guys think?

Now I have a stupid broken XFi.... oh well, atleast I can return the new hdd since the old one is still working.:rolleyes:
 
It's pretty unwise to plug anything but USB or E-SATA devices while a computer is running. Consider it a lesson learned.
 
Want a nice new card to go with your awsome gear, I would suggest a X-Meridian. The guys at AV forums are just loving them hooking them to all kinds of high end gear. Just a suggestion. Good thing the burn didn't contiue...
 
Audioguy,

I'll look into that particular card.. thanks!

Is it purely 2channel or multi?
 
You haven't heard about this card yet? Heve a look:
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-meridian.php

Sounds amazing out of the box but most of use change out the Opamps. The LM4562's make this card sound totally amazing. It is definatley a new favorite among alot of AV guys. The trick with this card though is that while it boasts pretty awsome digital features and I/O the real surprise with this card is the quality of it's analog sound. It can best alot of higher end receivers. This is what they say. You got some killer gear I think this card would be great for you. In my opinion. Check out the reviews. It basically became the top card over night for HTPC. According to the reviews.
 
Try ESI juli@ if you just listen to music. Personally I would get 2 soundcards.
one for music and the other for gaming. :)
 
you could get an Xtreme Music for less than half of the price of the Azuntech card and upgrade the opamps. National Semiconductor is giving out free samples of LM4562's, they even pay for shipping if you register with a corporate or college email account. I just hooked up my Xtreme Music with those opamps and a Blackgate power filter cap and its a completely different card.
 
Pinipig523 said:
Yes... lesson learned. :)

Atleast I didnt blow the amp or the Summits.... THAT would've sucked.
Click to expand...

Would have made me cry too:( I try to remember to switch anything like that before I power up. At a minimum *one side* should be powered down. Either the Source or the Amplification. Since you listen to music in the Digital domain and probably game too, I'd easily stick with the X-Fi and probably go with the Xtreme-Gamer.

The best thing XMeridian has going for it is moot for you. Even updated Opamps can't touch anything you're already using IMHO.
 
FrEaKy, Yeah, it s very nice sounding card. Most of the guys I know that own this card have it connected to high end expensive gear. If sound quality is your main concern this is the card for you. Atleast at this price range.
 
Rabid Badger said:
It's pretty unwise to plug anything but USB or E-SATA devices while a computer is running. Consider it a lesson learned.
Click to expand...

Ockie said:
I wouldn't agree to this statement.
Click to expand...

Ockie is right. E-SATA should not be hotswapped as a lot of the enclosures can not be safely hotswapped.

Also there are many things besides USB that can be plugged in/out when the PC is on, but never slot cards.

PS/2, USB, Parallel, Serial, Network, Audio, Firewire, just to name a few that can be hotswapped (pluged in and out when the PC is on).
 
Grentz said:
Ockie is right. E-SATA should not be hotswapped as a lot of the enclosures can not be safely hotswapped.

Also there are many things besides USB that can be plugged in/out when the PC is on, but never slot cards.

PS/2, USB, Parallel, Serial, Network, Audio, Firewire, just to name a few that can be hotswapped (pluged in and out when the PC is on).
Click to expand...

My Dimage A2 warns, "PLEASE Turn off Camera before Connecting to your computer". As with most Battery supported devices (Switching).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5949160.html

The opening of the two switching devices disconnects the battery from the power bus and connector to prevent damage which could be caused by applying an externally supplied voltage from the external power plug across the positive and negative terminals of the battery.
Click to expand...

System has to start from a powered down status. Some the are switched at the connector so it automatically powers down before switch over.

My Pioneer Receiver says don't connect and disconnect ANYTHING while the receiver is on. Including Digital Devices.

http://www.saxmusicplus.com/article...views/hardware/Firewire 1814/firewire1814.htm

Because M-Audio have received isolated reports of problems when hot-plugging their FireWire devices, as a cautionary measure, they strongly advise you to power down your computer before connecting it to the 1814.
Click to expand...

*Some are having similar problems with External HDD and CD/DVD-Writers.

I messed up a SCSI card by connecting my SCSI Scanner when it was powered up (Didn't know). Didn't have to shut down the computer, but the Scanner should have been power down. There was just a little "Snap", a tiny Blue Arc and no more SCSI card.
 
Donnie27 said:
Except there's one small problem. Look at who the post was meant for.

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030014446&postcount=700

Joey is no ordinary sound card user LOL!
Click to expand...

Thanks Donnie! :)

And the thing is, that pic is way outdated... the entire front end has been revamped, no longer the Rotels and no longer coming straight from the PC soundcard anymore. I go Squeezebox3 into the DAC via wifi. The soundcard is used only for PC games and PC stuff, like AIM and movies/Sopranos and YouTube. I do not use my PC soundcard for listening critically, but I do use it for a majority of casual sitting-by-the-keyboard listening because there's no point in running it through the SB3/DAC units if I'm not in the right sweetspot to begin with anyway.

At the moment, I dont really like the onboard sound I'm getting, it's very different when running through the Summits.. even for my everyday things. But, it's harder to discern on the Minis as they're not as resolving. I will take a look at all the soundcards elaborated throughout this thread, seems like I have several options. I don't need something overly ridiculous as I know it wont approach the PS Audio DAC. However, I don't see a point in skimping on another possible source so all tips are welcome. As long you guys dont start recommending $500-1000 soundcards, I think we're ok. :)

Rackwithgear2.jpg

SummitsandMinis.jpg
 
Well if you don't care about sound quality on your PC as you said or your really into gaming then go the other suggestion and get the X-fi. Though I would suggest getting a better model then the low end one that he suggested or uses. Go for the E-pro if any. The best sounding card in that price range for music and movies is the X-Meridian. Do some research and decide for yourself. Other then this you gonna have to jump price range to get better sound on PC. Enjoy your gear hunt I always do.
BTW, I understand exatly what gear he has it says so right in the bottom of his threads..LOL!!
 
Personally the X-meridian is a home theater soundcard with replaceable op amps and a onborad dolby 5.1 DTS decoder, while the x-fi is more of a gamer's card with its CMSS-3D

But i could swear that your DAC has an optical in...some motherboards support optical out for audio so take a look at that, optical is quite nice from what i hear (no pun intended:p )
 
Cat1yst said:
Personally the X-meridian is a home theater soundcard with replaceable op amps and a onborad dolby 5.1 DTS decoder, while the x-fi is more of a gamer's card with its CMSS-3D

But i could swear that your DAC has an optical in...some motherboards support optical out for audio so take a look at that, optical is quite nice from what i hear (no pun intended:p )
Click to expand...

Actually... my DAC has USB inputs... do you guys think this would be better than going with a soundcard for 2 channel?

I think I need an HT card though for games, and the digital out for movies. I will definitely look at the Meridian or an upgraded XFi opamp set.
 
Donnie27 said:
My Dimage A2 warns, "PLEASE Turn off Camera before Connecting to your computer". As with most Battery supported devices (Switching).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5949160.html



System has to start from a powered down status. Some the are switched at the connector so it automatically powers down before switch over.

My Pioneer Receiver says don't connect and disconnect ANYTHING while the receiver is on. Including Digital Devices.

http://www.saxmusicplus.com/article...views/hardware/Firewire 1814/firewire1814.htm



*Some are having similar problems with External HDD and CD/DVD-Writers.

I messed up a SCSI card by connecting my SCSI Scanner when it was powered up (Didn't know). Didn't have to shut down the computer, but the Scanner should have been power down. There was just a little "Snap", a tiny Blue Arc and no more SCSI card.
Click to expand...

You are now mixing in two powered devices connecting with eachother into your argument.
 
Ockie said:
You are now mixing in two powered devices connecting with eachother into your argument.
Click to expand...

NO. I'd not connect my sound card's digital out to a receiver Digital in while both are powered up. I used the others simply as examples of Analog or Powered devices. This guy has high-powered expensive devices and more caution should be used.
 
Thanks Donnie!

And the thing is, that pic is way outdated... the entire front end has been revamped, no longer the Rotels and no longer coming straight from the PC soundcard anymore.
Click to expand...

Pinipig523 said:
Actually... my DAC has USB inputs... do you guys think this would be better than going with a soundcard for 2 channel?

I think I need an HT card though for games, and the digital out for movies. I will definitely look at the Meridian or an upgraded XFi opamp set.
Click to expand...

I just grabbed the first one I saw with my dream speakers LOL!.

I'm shocked if just up dating Opamps on a sound card is going to improve on what you already have. I'd say get an X-Meridian too if you were just using what most of us mere mortals are using;)

I'd say hold out for the New Card from Auzentech (Prelude) that will ship with the so called "BOBW" or best of both worlds in mind. It will feature X-Fi's DSP with Auzentech support for DDL and DTS connect. X-Fi Elite Pro is an option as well.
 
Actually the name "BOBW" comes from a Programming idea where the user can link two cards one for gaming and the other for HTPC thus giving the best of both worlds. You get all the gaming features and still have the superior sound quality of the HTPC card. The project was renamed VELBAC. That program is widley used for quite a few applications, as you have features from either card at your disposal.

I think waiting is also a good idea. For either Auzentechs new flagship the Prelude or perhaps wait to see what new card CL brings to the table -the X-fi2 as it's rumored.
 
Audioguy said:
I think waiting is also a good idea. For either Auzentechs new flagship the Prelude or perhaps wait to see what new card CL brings to the table -the X-fi2 as it's rumored.
Click to expand...

I think you and Donnie may be right... maybe waiting is right. How much longer is the wait though? Few months, I can handle as Im plenty busy right now... but a year or two..... nu huh.

Thanks guys for the help, btw.... all of you.

:)
 
30-60 days? The new Prelude should be out the end of May. It should have the gaming features of the X-fi with the superior sound quality and components of the X-Meridian. If the X-fi2 interests you , I am not usure on that one. Perhaps somebody else can help with that..
 
Pinipig523 said:
I think you and Donnie may be right... maybe waiting is right. How much longer is the wait though? Few months, I can handle as Im plenty busy right now... but a year or two..... nu huh.

Thanks guys for the help, btw.... all of you.

:)
Click to expand...

I remember you talking about a lot of classes coming up, that's one of the reasons I said just wait. Auzentech said by the end of the month. I'd at least expect maybe the second week of June. Please also be warned, expect Creative to not just sit there and do nothing. They're famous for stealing ideas from others. If they think they can sell folks on the idea of better DAC's, Opamps, ADC's, DTS Connect, and the rest, don't think they'll miss the chance.
 
Donnie27 said:
I remember you talking about a lot of classes coming up, that's one of the reasons I said just wait. Auzentech said by the end of the month. I'd at least expect maybe the second week of June. Please also be warned, expect Creative to not just sit there and do nothing. They're famous for stealing ideas from others. If they think they can sell folks on the idea of better DAC's, Opamps, ADC's, DTS Connect, and the rest, don't think they'll miss the chance.
Click to expand...

I think you're right about Creative... it'll probably be another year or so before they do anything to the XFi lineup..... they're still milking the cow I think.

The Prelude in 1 month or so? Not bad..... you guys should've mentioned this in the first place... :). I can wait that long. Best of both worlds should do the trick!
 
I just figured you wanted a immediate replacement. The prelude would be the way to go. Auzen makes very,very nice sounding cards. If you wait who knows what else may come out by then?;)
 
Audioguy said:
I just figured you wanted a immediate replacement. The prelude would be the way to go. Auzen makes very,very nice sounding cards. If you wait who knows what else may come out by then?;)
Click to expand...

Thanks again my friend. Good call on all parts!
 
No Problem...
Just to note alot of the guys I know with X-Meridians have them connected Via analog interconnects to various HT systems and alot of them use high end systems such as yours. The XM has become a new favorite among alot of HTPC guys and others who use their PC as a audio source. The New Prelude card should be on par with the XM for analog sound quality so it should be a very nice soundcard. Enjoy your gear hunt:)
 
Pinipig523 said:
I think you're right about Creative... it'll probably be another year or so before they do anything to the XFi lineup..... they're still milking the cow I think.
Click to expand...
I don't think so, but it's all speculatory of course. I'd say 2-4 months.
 
True, has their been anything concrete to indicate they will be bringing out a new card the "X-fi2" as people like to call it?
 
Well i'm not sure about using the usb bus to do your data transfer...occasionally some motherboards might leak signals from one port to another causing hissing to sound, but if your gonna wait for another gen of soundcards to come out, might as well give it a shot
 
Yes, most definately use the USB on your DAC. First of all, even with an x-fi, there is no easy way to get a bit-perfect signal from the card, and there is certainly no way of getting a perfect ZERO GAIN signal from the card while still having it be compatable with everything else. Even with using ASIO to bypass the mixers you are still left with one functioning slider with no way of knowing where zero gain setting is. It is not the middle and it is not max, and if you select "bit-perfect" output mode, you lose support for games and such things.

The easiest way to get around all of that is to use USB audio device, which your dac will function as. The side advantage of having USB in your DAC is that you almost rid yourself completely of jitter issues as the signal is converted to s/pdif for only a tiny circuit trace inside your DAC. You can run super long USB cable and it wouldn't create any jitter, vs s/pdif where cabling certainly does matter.

I keep my Audigy4 for games and movies and use USB s/pdif for critical listening, it works out great.

If you are looking for the "soundcard to rule them all" I would suggest a Lynx pro soundcard, but you are not going to get any EAX or openAL support for games... you do get the advantage of being able to run a software crossover for bi and tri amping, though, and analog out stage that will rival the best.
 
Bit matched only works in Music Creation Mode and the ACMI settings for Zero Gain is easy to find. Both are fairly easy to set. It on both the Audio Control Console and MCM switcher.

Audio Creation Mode Interface

Can be output via Digital 2 Ch. 96KHz or 192KHz or 5.1 Ch 96KHz via some Hacks and 3rd party apps. 2/3 of Creative's so called "bloatware" is actually useful.
 
You can enable bit matched on my audigy4 easily in the control console, but it only works with wave out. ASIO bypasses this and you still have the problem of where is zero gain, at least on my audigy. I don't remember it being any different on my old x-fi, I would have loved this program when I had it. I wonder if this audio creation app woks on the audigy4 or if it is only an x-fi product, I would love to know where zero gain is even if I don't use it for critical listening, I still have the digital IO module and would like to use it.

I don't know why they couldn't have just put it at half slider or max slider, it makes no sense to have it be so obscure. I fiddled with it for weeks before I just gave up and got the usb s/pdif. I was trying to use VAC to loop back the output and then do a "subtract" on the two waves to try and find out where zero gain was (a subtract leaving silence would be zero gain). I only was able to learn that it wasn't max and it wasn't the middle... it was somewhere around 80%. But it was just simpler to get the usb device. I also was reading that nobody is even 100% sure if the audigy4 upsamples internally to 48khz before outputting whatever you have set. Most seem to think all audigies do it.

EDIT: only x-fi product. I have an x-fi music ed. and I think this software runs on that one, but that perticular x-fi is not compatable with some games so I removed it.
 
Yashu said:
You can enable bit matched on my audigy4 easily in the control console, but it only works with wave out. ASIO bypasses this and you still have the problem of where is zero gain, at least on my audigy. I don't remember it being any different on my old x-fi. I wonder if this audio creation app woks on the audigy4 or if it is only an x-fi product, I would love to know where zero gain is even if I don't use it for critical listening, I still have the digital IO module and would like to use it.

I don't know why they couldn't have just put it at half slider or max slider, it makes no sense to have it be so obscure. I fiddled with it for weeks before I just gave up and got the usb s/pdif. I was trying to use VAC to loop back the output and then do a "subtract" on the two waves to try and find out where zero gain was (a subtract leaving silence would be zero gain). I only was able to learn that it wasn't max and it wasn't the middle... it was somewhere around 80%. But it was just simpler to get the usb device. I also was reading that nobody is even 100% sure if the audigy4 upsamples internally to 48khz before outputting whatever you have set. Most seem to think all audigies do it.
Click to expand...

Because the Audigy 4 doesn't have an Audio Creation Mode. I have an Audigy 4 in my Den computer (soon to be replaced) and an Audigy 2 ZS in my #2.

Anything is possible but my first thought would be NO it wouldn't work. Audigys don't have the muscle X-Fi has.

That's good news, the bad news is that the ADC on the card could have easily been better IMHO. A bud that's a pro at this put this way. "I don't believe they (Creative) started out great and ended up half-assed. They giveth with the right hand and taketh with the left. This card could have been better with just slightly better ADC's. Oh well, I think they saved those (Better ADC's) for EMU uh?"

That ACMI is very similar to a Mid Ranged Numark I once played with while over in Germany. But it (Software) is NOT the easiest thing to configure. I read up on it over a most of a week-end, made several "Snap Shots" of configs that work and Now it's not so bad. Its a dream for tweakers and a NIGHTMARE for folks who want simple. This thing LOVES Guitars!

I agree with you it could have been done smarter! But I couldn't have done it better so I'm not ragging them out:) The card has plenty of room for improvement in Hardware and Software IMHO... I playback Music to a simple receiver via bit match, use FLAC with EAC on my Critical listening stuff LOL!
 
I'm beginning to think USB out to my DAC is going to yield better results for 2channel mode. The only thing I need now is a card with gaming support.. which will probably be the new Prelude card...
 
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