Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus

Mchart

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Wow, old thread. Also, the story in these games is usually just window dressing and I don't think it's intended for most people to read that much into them. I mean, I don't know anyone who watches a porno for the plot.
Really not true. Part of what made New Order so good was it's combination of great level design, great gunplay, and the story was actually interesting with interesting characters and did a great job to move the player around to different great locations. People wanted New Colossus mostly because of the continuation of the story & characters.. And that's where they blew it.
 

scojer

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The game was fun, and I just recently played through them. I didn't read to much into the story, I just enjoyed the gameplay. As for BJ's dad, the game wasn't super woke, he was just a dick. Rip only married BJ's mom for selfish business reasons, to get her father's money to start a business, and then ran that business into the ground.

I have not played Youngblood yet, so that one might be woke on purpose.
 

Flogger23m

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It doesn't make sense that BJ's father is an American bigot. Since his Polish name is not Americanized to Blaskovich, it's most likely he would be a first or second generation immigrant.

That too was always my assumption, which is why I found the father bit to be a bit odd.
 

Denpepe

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It doesn't make sense that BJ's father is an American bigot. Since his Polish name is not Americanized to Blaskovich, it's most likely he would be a first or second generation immigrant. It's likely he would also face racism himself. In the early 20th century immigrants from Poland or Italy still faced racism in America. The storyline probably has bigger flaws but it's something that was strange to me.

In general I don't think the devs have a good knowledge of history. Otherwise in TNO they wouldn't have a secret Jewish society as part of the storyline.The Nazis used the Jewish Bolvshevism conspiracy theory to justify the persecution of Jews. By having a powerful secret Jewish society in the game, it subtly legitimizes various anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that persist to this day. It was a bit insensitive to have that in the game.

It's an alternate history so basically anything goes, that does not necesarily make it better but I would not draw too much conclusions to compare the games to our timeline.
 

M76

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The game was fun, and I just recently played through them. I didn't read to much into the story, I just enjoyed the gameplay. As for BJ's dad, the game wasn't super woke, he was just a dick. Rip only married BJ's mom for selfish business reasons, to get her father's money to start a business, and then ran that business into the ground.

I have not played Youngblood yet, so that one might be woke on purpose.
Machine games were woke even before it was "cool". There were small hints of it even in the new order, but the new colossus definitely has the wokes.
 

Mchart

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It's an alternate history so basically anything goes, that does not necesarily make it better but I would not draw too much conclusions to compare the games to our timeline.
To a point. The game is largely 'normal history' up until WW2 where Nazi Germany's wonder weapons programs actually do something, unlike real history. So it doesn't make much sense that a racist Texan from the WW1 generation would marry a fresh off the boat Polish immigrant, and still be so racist, etc. This is an issue all through-out new colossus. There is just poor writing & poor character development compared to the prior game. Never mind the fact that the game is also worse in every way, to include the graphics, which makes zero sense. If the story at least continued to be good in new colossus people like myself could have overlooked how everything else with the game was a downgrade from the prior.

As it stands, I still play through New Order almost every year. I absolutely love that game. Awesome characters, awesome story, awesome locations, above average map design for a FPS, great gunplay, etc.. I pretend new colossus doesn't even exist on the other hand. I haven't touched it since my first playthrough, because it sucks even if I only focus on gameplay.
 

scojer

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Machine games were woke even before it was "cool". There were small hints of it even in the new order, but the new colossus definitely has the wokes.

I didn't get the sense of any wokeness in TNO, if there was any, I missed it, and in TNC a bigoted dad isn't really wokeness, it just made killing him more satisfying. BJ and the little black girl on the other hand, was wokeness, that really had nothing to do with the plot, there was no side mission to save her as an adult, which I thought was a wasted opportunity.

To a point. The game is largely 'normal history' up until WW2 where Nazi Germany's wonder weapons programs actually do something, unlike real history. So it doesn't make much sense that a racist Texan from the WW1 generation would marry a fresh off the boat Polish immigrant, and still be so racist, etc. This is an issue all through-out new colossus. There is just poor writing & poor character development compared to the prior game. Never mind the fact that the game is also worse in every way, to include the graphics, which makes zero sense. If the story at least continued to be good in new colossus people like myself could have overlooked how everything else with the game was a downgrade from the prior.

As it stands, I still play through New Order almost every year. I absolutely love that game. Awesome characters, awesome story, awesome locations, above average map design for a FPS, great gunplay, etc.. I pretend new colossus doesn't even exist on the other hand. I haven't touched it since my first playthrough, because it sucks even if I only focus on gameplay.

The changes to the characters was jarring, especially playing them back to back. I get that they increased the poly count, but they changed Anya too much, she went from looking like the voice actress that portrayed her to a Bioshock character, I didn't like the change to most of the character models in TNC.

I did find TNC really fun to play through though. I'll play through them all again in about 5 years or so.
 

Flogger23m

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To a point. The game is largely 'normal history' up until WW2 where Nazi Germany's wonder weapons programs actually do something, unlike real history. So it doesn't make much sense that a racist Texan from the WW1 generation would marry a fresh off the boat Polish immigrant, and still be so racist, etc. This is an issue all through-out new colossus. There is just poor writing & poor character development compared to the prior game. Never mind the fact that the game is also worse in every way, to include the graphics, which makes zero sense. If the story at least continued to be good in new colossus people like myself could have overlooked how everything else with the game was a downgrade from the prior.

As it stands, I still play through New Order almost every year. I absolutely love that game. Awesome characters, awesome story, awesome locations, above average map design for a FPS, great gunplay, etc.. I pretend new colossus doesn't even exist on the other hand. I haven't touched it since my first playthrough, because it sucks even if I only focus on gameplay.

Well maybe he was okay with Polish and not other ethnic groups. That isn't uncommon at all in the real world. And family members hating each other due to ethnic reasons isn't uncommon at all even today. I'll say the part about his childhood friend was completely unnecessary and certainly there to push a narrative, however random and misguided it was.

TNC didn't suffer the horrid texture pop in that TNO did. I recall TNC looking a bit better, but not by much. I didn't enjoy the mission design as much either, plus the ending was kind of lame. TNO was certainly one of the better shooter games in the last decade. Too bad most shooters suck these days, and seem to be a dying genre.
 

Mchart

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Well maybe he was okay with Polish and not other ethnic groups. That isn't uncommon at all in the real world. And family members hating each other due to ethnic reasons isn't uncommon at all even today. I'll say the part about his childhood friend was completely unnecessary and certainly there to push a narrative, however random and misguided it was.

TNC didn't suffer the horrid texture pop in that TNO did. I recall TNC looking a bit better, but not by much. I didn't enjoy the mission design as much either, plus the ending was kind of lame. TNO was certainly one of the better shooter games in the last decade. Too bad most shooters suck these days, and seem to be a dying genre.
I recall him constantly shitting on BJ and his mother because of being polish. It made no sense.
 

M76

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As it stands, I still play through New Order almost every year. I absolutely love that game. Awesome characters, awesome story, awesome locations, above average map design for a FPS, great gunplay, etc.. I pretend new colossus doesn't even exist on the other hand. I haven't touched it since my first playthrough, because it sucks even if I only focus on gameplay.
Have you played Chronicles of Riddick Escape from Butcher Bay? Most of the good bits in the new order has been copied from that game.
 

M76

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I didn't get the sense of any wokeness in TNO, if there was any, I missed it, and in TNC a bigoted dad isn't really wokeness, it just made killing him more satisfying. BJ and the little black girl on the other hand, was wokeness, that really had nothing to do with the plot, there was no side mission to save her as an adult, which I thought was a wasted opportunity.
Wokeness can have many manifestations, not just direct preaching. They only got so bold to do that more recently. The only thing I've noticed in TNO were the terrible politically correct jokes. Wokeness kills comedy.
 

Denpepe

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I don't understand why would you marry someone who you despise because of their ancestry?
You never heard of a marriage going bad? You can find thousands of couples that divorced in terrible ways, who loved each other when they got married. You don't want to feed all the people that killed an ex.

Once a mlarriage goes down the drain anything can get used to damage the other party even things that did not matter b4.
 

M76

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You never heard of a marriage going bad? You can find thousands of couples that divorced in terrible ways, who loved each other when they got married. You don't want to feed all the people that killed an ex.
But not because of their ancestry?! You presumably know that upfront.
Once a mlarriage goes down the drain anything can get used to damage the other party even things that did not matter b4
The game depicts bj elder as a genuine bigot, not someone who just uses ancestry as a jab after the marriage went sour. Of course after hell breaks loose you call the other one all kinds of things, that's not what it seemed like in the game.
 

Mchart

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But not because of their ancestry?! You presumably know that upfront.

The game depicts bj elder as a genuine bigot, not someone who just uses ancestry as a jab after the marriage went sour. Of course after hell breaks loose you call the other one all kinds of things, that's not what it seemed like in the game.
exactly, he beats the shit out of both of them from day 1 simply because their Polish. Literally makes no sense.
 

Flogger23m

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I don't understand why would you marry someone who you despise because of their ancestry?

Dozens of reasons. Out of necessity, social pressure, family reasons, accidentally had a kid, general drunkeness, you name it. Sometimes someone will think "they're okay for an XYZ so lets get married", then end up hating them in short order because "they're actually like the rest of XYZ". Not uncommon at all back then, and still happens a lot today. It might not be very logical because often times it isn't.
 
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