Without Drugs, What's The Point of Bitcoin?

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Okay bitcoin supporters, let's hear your best answer to this question. :D

"Bitcoin is insanely traceable," Nicholas Weaver, a researcher at UC Berkeley's International Computer Science Institute told the Verge. As an unregulated currency, Bitcoin appeared to be a natural fit for the illicit drug market. But while Bitcoin is anonymous, it isn't untraceable. When users convert bitcoins to hard currency, their name becomes linked to a "public blockchain" that comprises the entire transactional history of the bitcoin.
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So it took me 3 seconds after reading this to suppose a 3rd party service that randomly swaps bitcoins between users 50 times before handing them back a different bitcoin...

trace that
 
Villz said:
So it took me 3 seconds after reading this to suppose a 3rd party service that randomly swaps bitcoins between users 50 times before handing them back a different bitcoin...

trace that
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There are already services that do just that...while the basic transaction for a bitcoin are traceable, the reality is far different.
 
I think of bitcoin as a very interesting currency experiment.

The idea that people should be able to protect their privacy in a digital world just like we had privacy in a pre-digital world is a noble one, and does not require illicit activity as a foundation for its philosophy.

(I thought we established that only complete morons still use the "nothing to hide" argument.

We all have sensitive data, whether we are a squeaky clean honest preacher of a family man, or a more average and interesting person.

Bitcoin is an interesting experiment, and a first step towards this goal, but I feel it has some fundamental flaws in its designs that does not make it this ideal new currency, so in the mean time we are still stuck in our big-brother-esque dystopian present.
 
"BITCOIN IS UNTRACEABLE!"
"Actually its very easy to track, as every bitcoin has a digital signature that can't be changed and is unique to it"
"NO JUST YOU WATCH!"
*countless drug dealers, hackers, ransomeware people get tracked down easily because CIA etc just marked every unique ID of every bitcoin they sold to these people, and when they cashed them in found them ASAP*
"OH MY GOD WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY TELL ME BITCOIN WAS SO TRACEABLE?!"

Really?
 
Villz said:
So it took me 3 seconds after reading this to suppose a 3rd party service that randomly swaps bitcoins between users 50 times before handing them back a different bitcoin...

trace that
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The ID is encoded into the bitcoin itself, not who traded it
 
LEO could only wish that criminals used bitcoins exclusively. It would make their life a ton easier.
 
Not everyone values privacy from the government more than usability.
Coinbase and Circle do all the usual kyc aml reporting requirements.


Let's say I don't care that the government knows I have bought bitcoins from coinbase, but i want to keep them from being able to confiscate them in the event I go to jail or whatever. Just because they know they exists doesn't mean they can confiscate them. They can be written down with invisible ink onto paper and stored in an Alaskan barn or something, not stored on a computer. I don't have to send the coins to a new address either; I can simply sell a wallet or cold storage address to someone else for cash.

A bank account can be frozen quite easily.

Pretty uncreative article.
 
ShamisOMally said:
"BITCOIN IS UNTRACEABLE!"
"Actually its very easy to track, as every bitcoin has a digital signature that can't be changed and is unique to it"
"NO JUST YOU WATCH!"
*countless drug dealers, hackers, ransomeware people get tracked down easily because CIA etc just marked every unique ID of every bitcoin they sold to these people, and when they cashed them in found them ASAP*
"OH MY GOD WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY TELL ME BITCOIN WAS SO TRACEABLE?!"

Really?
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LOL.... This is akin to people using stolen CC's IMO. Most know its traceable, but don't really know what the anonymity really means so blindly use it for whatever. Then when that stolen CC/bitcoins used it's traceable to figure out who usually. Same idiots different coin.

Just another non news story, the grass is green, that keeps getting repeated because there's no other shit to talk about.
 
Are we sure the U.S. government (or a coalition of Western governments) didn't create BitCoin?
 
amddragonpc said:
Are we sure the U.S. government (or a coalition of Western governments) didn't create BitCoin?
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ShamisOMally said:
The ID is encoded into the bitcoin itself, not who traded it
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What ID? You know you can create a bitcoin account offline without any "ID"? Or at least you used to. Please enlighten me about these "IDs".

Its just like they said... putting your account on a $20 bill... what happens when you walk into a store and ask for 2 10s? You get 2 bills WITHOUT your account on them... Bitcoin tumbling is just like that, you give coins to someone, tell them where they should be sent... they collect coins from a bunch of other people... basically put them all in a sack (not literally), then deliver the coins as told by their customers all from the same big sack in random fashion. Your coins are actually used to send another persons bitcoins, just like their coins go to your recipient.

bitcoin transactions are logged in the blockchain, from/to whom etc. It is public, you can look at the balance and transaction of any account you wish. You just don't know who owns them. Sure if the company that manages the wallet keeps info they could link address to person, but there are ways to create accounts without any personal information at all.

Bitcoin really is most effective in areas where banking is VERY poor or where governments are very restrictive. Bitcoin went to $1k basically because Chinese wanted money outside of the country beyond the limits their governments impose. That and its the new thing...

Transfers are too slow for anything <$50 (just using same number as no sign CC transactions), and the anonymous mature of the system does make it a theft/scam utopia... Which you will NEVER avoid without government or corporation backing/insurance.

This article is written by someone with VERY little knowledge of how bitcoins work.
 
dandirk said:
--snip--

This article is written by someone with VERY little knowledge of how bitcoins work.
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What's new. I have seen maybe 2-4 articles in 2+ years that actually were written by knowledgeable people who were pointing out legitimate issues with the tech.

Everything else? Made for tools, written by tools.
 
dandirk said:
What ID? You know you can create a bitcoin account offline without any "ID"? Or at least you used to. Please enlighten me about these "IDs".

Its just like they said... putting your account on a $20 bill... what happens when you walk into a store and ask for 2 10s? You get 2 bills WITHOUT your account on them... Bitcoin tumbling is just like that, you give coins to someone, tell them where they should be sent... they collect coins from a bunch of other people... basically put them all in a sack (not literally), then deliver the coins as told by their customers all from the same big sack in random fashion. Your coins are actually used to send another persons bitcoins, just like their coins go to your recipient.

bitcoin transactions are logged in the blockchain, from/to whom etc. It is public, you can look at the balance and transaction of any account you wish. You just don't know who owns them. Sure if the company that manages the wallet keeps info they could link address to person, but there are ways to create accounts without any personal information at all.

Bitcoin really is most effective in areas where banking is VERY poor or where governments are very restrictive. Bitcoin went to $1k basically because Chinese wanted money outside of the country beyond the limits their governments impose. That and its the new thing...

Transfers are too slow for anything <$50 (just using same number as no sign CC transactions), and the anonymous mature of the system does make it a theft/scam utopia... Which you will NEVER avoid without government or corporation backing/insurance.

This article is written by someone with VERY little knowledge of how bitcoins work.
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The id is hashed into the bitcoins itself

The computer that made it, hardware etc. Its all hashed into the coin itself

This is why its the most easily tracked currency on earth
 
If BitCoin has no 3% processing fee charged to the vendor (like credit cards) I could see LOADS of companies using it if they were confident of its safety.
 
MiXdNuTs said:
Without drugs, what's the point of house music?
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Without drugs, what's the point of life? Can pretty much take it all the way lol but people don't realize it. Everyone is dependent on some drugs or another for the most part, yet we still are trying to tell people exactly what they can and can't have. Pathetic
 
All I know is that the small amount I mined was enough that when the prices where high a year+ ago I had enough to buy an SSD for my system.
 
And the confusion continues...if you took away drugs and the tinfoil hat paranoid the bitcoin network would die 10x faster is all.
 
Samson4EiT said:
Without drugs, what's the point of life? Can pretty much take it all the way lol but people don't realize it. Everyone is dependent on some drugs or another for the most part, yet we still are trying to tell people exactly what they can and can't have. Pathetic
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Sure, because abusing drugs never hurt anyone (or anyone around the abuser).

Medically necessary drugs are fine, but most people are NOT addicted to drugs, if they where our society would cease to function.
 
pcjunkie said:
And the confusion continues...if you took away drugs and the tinfoil hat paranoid the bitcoin network would die 10x faster is all.
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If you took away drugs, it would still be there. Price would just drop, the main use would just switch. Seeing how many coins have propped up, many made to try and profit obviously, but it seems people have spoken and would like something akin to this. Bitcoin or something like it is never going to go away now unless we were just to do away with computers entirely and go back to the stone ages. It's also impossible to win a war on drugs, as again, we are all dependent on drugs, just different ones from eachother.
 
nutzo said:
Sure, because abusing drugs never hurt anyone (or anyone around the abuser).

Medically necessary drugs are fine, but most people are NOT addicted to drugs, if they where our society would cease to function.
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I didn't mean addicted dependent, wheather it be for pleasure, medical, what have you. Caffeine is a drug, alcohol is a drug. Abusing anything will hurt you, abusing non drugs hurts people. So thats not a valid reason.
 
Because people will buy into anything where they think they can make a quick buck. For some people, THAT IS THEIR DRUG :D

But early-on it was mostly pushed by college kids who like "free" money. Since most kids in dorms do not pay for their electricity, it's free to them.
 
Drug dealers and addicts deserve to be caught. This might be the only good thing that ever came out of bitcoin.
 
I sometimes wonder how many people here believe simply owning bitcoin should be reason enough to imprison someone.
 
weebling1 said:
If BitCoin has no 3% processing fee charged to the vendor (like credit cards) I could see LOADS of companies using it if they were confident of its safety.
Click to expand...

In some ways I'd trust BitCoin more than I'd trust PayPal. Cheaper, and you don't have to worry about Paypal taking money out of your account and giving it back to people that are lying about not receiving the item even though tracking shows that it was delivered and they initially asked for you to give them a refund because they decided they didn't want it.
 
pcjunkie said:
And the confusion continues...
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yea, it seems that no one in here actually knows how bitcoin works....

Yes, each transaction in the block chain is unique and readily and permanently traceable; which is by design. You have to have some proof that the coin I sent you is an actual bitcoin, and not just a number I made up myself....

And yes, the stupid criminals who accept a bitcoin and immediately present that same coin to a currency conversion service, are able to be discovered by that service provider (and, then, the FBI can raid them directly and discover your unlaundered bitcoin transaction)....



What makes bitcoin good for illegal purchasing, is the fact that it is extremely easy to launder the transaction, after which it becomes much harder (if not impossible) to link any particular transaction with any other (ie. watching the same coin pass from person to person). After you launder the bitcoin, then any currency conversion service will only know that you have a bitcoin; they will not know who it originally came from or what it was previously used to purchase.

If you don't launder your drug money, obviously its easy for the FBI to trace it... nothing new here. Money laundering just got much *easier* to do. Thats the only difference.

You still have to make the initial effort, and if you dont, your still going to get caught.
 
So this is how bitcoin mixing/laundry works

You give a service a bitcoin, they have a bitcoin from somebody else, they swap them

Problem is, now you're holding the safe bitcoin, somebody else is holding the bitcoin which can get them into shit

So potentially you have a bitcoin that has no crime attached to it, or a bitcoin which was used to pay for somebodies ransom payment.

Good luck!
 
ShamisOMally said:
So this is how bitcoin mixing/laundry works

You give a service a bitcoin, they have a bitcoin from somebody else, they swap them

Problem is, now you're holding the safe bitcoin, somebody else is holding the bitcoin which can get them into shit

So potentially you have a bitcoin that has no crime attached to it, or a bitcoin which was used to pay for somebodies ransom payment.

Good luck!
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Over time every coin is tainted.
 
yo dawg I herd from my uncle who's a sheriff in West Virginia dat bitcoin is for child porn. His pastor can confirm
 
Samson4EiT said:
Without drugs, what's the point of life? Can pretty much take it all the way lol but people don't realize it. Everyone is dependent on some drugs or another for the most part, yet we still are trying to tell people exactly what they can and can't have. Pathetic
Click to expand...

Exactly when was the last time you saw a competent and contributing member of society addicted to heroin? I've never seen one, and I deal with heroin addicts (and the mess they cause) every day.
 
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