Wireless G Modem/router with N router connected

B

Boxerz

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
131
I have a 2WIRE AT&T router/modem all in one which is a Wireless G router/modem but I also have a D-LINK Wireless N router. I have a Synology NAS connected to the network and I was wondering what would be the most efficient setup. I have a Wireless N card on my PC.

All the computers and NAS were previously connected to the 2WIRE router/modem. I recently just switched all my computers and the NAS to my D-LINK router. I have roommates who don't access my NAS and are still connected to the 2WIRE router.

Does having the D-LINK router connected in this setup do any benefit? My thinking is because of the Wireless-N range/speed. It doesn't seem to be any faster and the D-LINK range actually is not better than the 2WIRE range from today's observations.

I was transferring files from my computer when the NAS and my computers were all on the 2WIRE network and it was transferring at a slow 3MB/s.

When I switched the NAS to the D-LINK router and my computers, I hit 3.3MB/s for a few seconds but that could of been a fluke. I have not setup port forwarding on the D-LINK router but I initially forwarded all the correct ports on the 2WIRE modem/router but I haven't reconfigured it for the D-LINK router since I didn't have any time earlier.

I drew a picture to show what my current setup is. My previous setup was just all connected to the 2WIRE with the D-LINK totally taken out of the equation.

Why is the transfer so slow? (3MB/s)
2dumava.png
 
You don't have the D-Link wireless router in Mixed Mode do you? If so, disable it and put it as a solid 802.11n (5Ghz) frequency. You can try bonding channels (using the 40Mhz range). I'm not sure if 802.11n routers default to a single 20Mhz channel or not, but it would explain the roughly 802.11g performance since in single channel mode it isn't much faster than 802.11g.


Benefits of the separate networks:

-Segregated traffic
-Less load on the 2Wire, especially when more people and high bandwidth is being used.
-Security ( + dedicated bandwidth for your devices without sharing)

For internal LAN transfers it isn't a problem. Although I would still hold my breath transferring large files or a ton of small files over Wi-Fi. Really is an immature technology despite the illusion its been around awhile. Plus you got the double NAT thing going on (unless you changed that) which could have implications later on when going outside the LAN.

I'd start with channel bonding, using a higher frequency (40Mhz over 20Mhz), and disabling mixed mode first.
 
Yeah there are definitely benefits to dividing network hardware between different boxes.

i have on my home network:

Firewall, Routing, QOS, DHCP: Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH (400mHz proc, 64 MB RAM)(dd-wrt)
Wireless G: Linksys Wrt54GS + added 9 dBi Omni antenna (dd-wrt flashed)
Wireless N: Asus RT-N56U (stock FW, 533MHz proc 128MB RAM)

Basically this setup allows me to Torrent and game all day long since the Buffalo can focus all it's resources on routing (2.6MB/s down right now, 316 ports connected... 13% proc usage and 10% RAM usage, 102 days uptime... 2.3TB data transfer since last reboot). For cell phones and older devices I have the Linksys, which with the added antenna I can get full reception thoughout my house and backyard. And the Asus can focus solely on Wireless N, reaching optimal wireless N speeds.
 
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The ideal setup for your case would be to disable routing on the d-link and turn on "Access Point" Mode.

Your synology results are quite slow, if you have a modern synology made in the last 3 years you should be able to get maximum wireless N speeds (9-13MB/s).

Setting up an ideal wireless network takes quite a bit of tweaking, you aren't going to get anywhere near max speeds if you just pull it out of a box and plug it in. There are many guides on the internet that go over what to do to your router.
 
You will not get a range increase since 801.11G and 802.11G have the same theoretical range. Additionally 5Ghz frequency has more trouble with walls and looses more singlan strenght with each wall it goes through.

You get the benefit of security since your roomates will not have access to your network on the dlink router. Speed will increase only via the 802.11N band compared to 802.11G. Remember that G has theoretical speed of 6.7MB/s and N in 2.4Ghz has about 3 times that at close to 20MB/s to have full 40MB/s you need to use 5Ghz since you need one free channel for full speed. This is still very theoretical and usually speeds are 33% of the stated max speed. Usually due to interferance and noise.
 
Liger88 said:
You don't have the D-Link wireless router in Mixed Mode do you? If so, disable it and put it as a solid 802.11n (5Ghz) frequency. You can try bonding channels (using the 40Mhz range). I'm not sure if 802.11n routers default to a single 20Mhz channel or not, but it would explain the roughly 802.11g performance since in single channel mode it isn't much faster than 802.11g.


Benefits of the separate networks:

-Segregated traffic
-Less load on the 2Wire, especially when more people and high bandwidth is being used.
-Security ( + dedicated bandwidth for your devices without sharing)

For internal LAN transfers it isn't a problem. Although I would still hold my breath transferring large files or a ton of small files over Wi-Fi. Really is an immature technology despite the illusion its been around awhile. Plus you got the double NAT thing going on (unless you changed that) which could have implications later on when going outside the LAN.

I'd start with channel bonding, using a higher frequency (40Mhz over 20Mhz), and disabling mixed mode first.
Click to expand...

I made the changes: 802.11n only
Channel: 1
Channel Width: Auto 20/40 Mhz. (Only two options were 20Mhz or Auto 20/40)

staticlag said:
The ideal setup for your case would be to disable routing on the d-link and turn on "Access Point" Mode.

Your synology results are quite slow, if you have a modern synology made in the last 3 years you should be able to get maximum wireless N speeds (9-13MB/s).

Setting up an ideal wireless network takes quite a bit of tweaking, you aren't going to get anywhere near max speeds if you just pull it out of a box and plug it in. There are many guides on the internet that go over what to do to your router.
Click to expand...
The Synology DS212j was purchased a week ago. I think it's still relatively new in the market as NAS commercially to the public is new. I would kill for 9-13MB/s

nocpan said:
You will not get a range increase since 801.11G and 802.11G have the same theoretical range. Additionally 5Ghz frequency has more trouble with walls and looses more singlan strenght with each wall it goes through.

You get the benefit of security since your roomates will not have access to your network on the dlink router. Speed will increase only via the 802.11N band compared to 802.11G. Remember that G has theoretical speed of 6.7MB/s and N in 2.4Ghz has about 3 times that at close to 20MB/s to have full 40MB/s you need to use 5Ghz since you need one free channel for full speed. This is still very theoretical and usually speeds are 33% of the stated max speed. Usually due to interferance and noise.
Click to expand...
There are about 2 walls between myself and the router. I was thinking of getting a repeater. Since there are 2 walls, I'm assuming this could affect Wireless N connectivity greatly but not G as much?
 
Quick update. WOW, I reached 4.4MB/s transfer rate from the previous 3MB/s. Thanks for the help guys. If there are any more tweaks or links I can go to get even better performance, please let me know. Thank you guys for all your help!!
Edit: capped at 5MB/s but momentarily, regardless still a big improvement imo
 
Change channel width to 20Mhz.

If you max out the 802.11n 20mhz stream you'll see approximately 10MB/s.

Stability and measured throughput is more important than reported connection speed at the network adapter..


Run inSSIDer and post a couple screen shots of your wireless environment. Just to make sure your not stepping on any other device or noise.
 
Mackintire said:
Change channel width to 20Mhz.

If you max out the 802.11n 20mhz stream you'll see approximately 10MB/s.

Stability and measured throughput is more important than reported connection speed at the network adapter..


Run inSSIDer and post a couple screen shots of your wireless environment. Just to make sure your not stepping on any other device or noise.
Click to expand...

How do I maximize the 20mhz stream? I changed it from Auto 20/40 to just 20Mhz.

My connection is usually 4/5 bars but it's now sitting at 2/5 bars. The connection has slowed down dramatically. Also, I connected my laptop which has a 802.11G card onto my router when it says "Radio Type: 802.11n". The D-link router has N, G, and B but I thought I set it for N only yet the laptop works on it? Is it because it's backwards compatible?


Nothing shows up under 5GHz channels. Does that mean none of the routers are capable? None are just configured to hit 5GHz?
Here's the Screen
"Seide Love u Long time" is the D-LINK Wireless-N router
"2WIRE847" is the AT&T modem/router Wireless-G
belkin.4c4 is connected to the 2WIRE847, I don't know what that big brick is.
2ilydk9.png
 
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Any input based upon my screen? How can I get 5GHz? There doesn't seem to be any traffic. Would 5GHz benefit me?
 
Boxerz said:
Any input based upon my screen? How can I get 5GHz? There doesn't seem to be any traffic. Would 5GHz benefit me?
Click to expand...



Well, you may have turned off Mixed Mode Access, but since 802.11n routers can do both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz you probably forgot to switch it to 5Ghz like I said above (if you haven't already). inSSIDer is showing only the 2.4Ghz frequency because you haven't changed that over in the Routers setup page. Most of the "advertised" speeds you'll never come close to (for other reasons), but they require the 5Ghz band, not the 2.4Ghz band which IIRC taps out around 72Mbps (as listed). Theoretically if you divide that number by 2 and then by 8 that'll be the roughly max speed you can achieve, which based off your results sounds dead dick at 4.5-5MBps.

Switching to Wireless N mode only (no mixed mode) and setting the frequency to 5Ghz should drastically improve performance. Even then you'll probably have to ensure your options in the router setup page include channel bonding.

It would also help if we had the exact model of the wireless router that supports 802.11n. At least then we'd be able to see the thorough specifications.
 
Liger88 said:
Well, you may have turned off Mixed Mode Access, but since 802.11n routers can do both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz you probably forgot to switch it to 5Ghz like I said above (if you haven't already). inSSIDer is showing only the 2.4Ghz frequency because you haven't changed that over in the Routers setup page. Most of the "advertised" speeds you'll never come close to (for other reasons), but they require the 5Ghz band, not the 2.4Ghz band which IIRC taps out around 72Mbps (as listed). Theoretically if you divide that number by 2 and then by 8 that'll be the roughly max speed you can achieve, which based off your results sounds dead dick at 4.5-5MBps.

Switching to Wireless N mode only (no mixed mode) and setting the frequency to 5Ghz should drastically improve performance. Even then you'll probably have to ensure your options in the router setup page include channel bonding.

It would also help if we had the exact model of the wireless router that supports 802.11n. At least then we'd be able to see the thorough specifications.
Click to expand...
2WIRE 3801HGV is the Wireless-G modem/router
D-LINK DIR-601B1 is the Wireless-N router

i'll try to setup the 5GHz and channel bonding.
 
That helps. It seems as though that's a really cheapo Wireless N router, and it isn't really Wireless N, rather that pre-802.11n approval crap. Some of its limitations are NOT supporting multiple channels at the same time and having a max theoretical "N" capability of 150Mbps (far from what 802.11n standard devices are offering now). If you get 10MBps even changing the frequency I'd be surprised. I'd say expect 5-8MBps. Let us know what the results are.
 
Liger88 said:
That helps. It seems as though that's a really cheapo Wireless N router, and it isn't really Wireless N, rather that pre-802.11n approval crap. Some of its limitations are NOT supporting multiple channels at the same time and having a max theoretical "N" capability of 150Mbps (far from what 802.11n standard devices are offering now). If you get 10MBps even changing the frequency I'd be surprised. I'd say expect 5-8MBps. Let us know what the results are.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think I got this cheapo for $20 on amazon. I don't see options for channel bonding. It says I'm in Channel: 1. I guess I got what I paid for..
 
staticlag said:
Yeah there are definitely benefits to dividing network hardware between different boxes.

i have on my home network:

Firewall, Routing, QOS, DHCP: Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH (400mHz proc, 64 MB RAM)(dd-wrt)
Wireless G: Linksys Wrt54GS + added 9 dBi Omni antenna (dd-wrt flashed)
Wireless N: Asus RT-N56U (stock FW, 533MHz proc 128MB RAM)

Basically this setup allows me to Torrent and game all day long since the Buffalo can focus all it's resources on routing (2.6MB/s down right now, 316 ports connected... 13% proc usage and 10% RAM usage, 102 days uptime... 2.3TB data transfer since last reboot). For cell phones and older devices I have the Linksys, which with the added antenna I can get full reception thoughout my house and backyard. And the Asus can focus solely on Wireless N, reaching optimal wireless N speeds.
Click to expand...

A top-line Asus RT-N66U router wouldn't be able to handle all of this??

Do you run torrent directly on the Buffalo with an external hard drive?

In my experience, I think it would be best to disable the 2Wire wireless and use the modem itself for the WAN output, to a full-fledged router. The router/modem will prioritize its needs first.
 
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The issue that I am coming up with now is accessing the NAS remotely. How does one forward a port from a router that is under another router? The NAS' IP is 192.168.0.111 and the port I am forwarding is 5000. When I used to have the NAS connected directly to the 2WIRE router, I was able to port forward it and access it via - external IP:port Number

Do I have to port foward the 2Wire and then the D-LINK router?
 
I fixed my port forwarding issue I guess by just directly connecting the NAS back to the main AT&T router

I bought a switch, it's coming in Tuesday and currently my network looks like this. It looks like hell but I'm thinking AT&T Router->Switch and the following three things connected to the Switch: NAS, WAP, TV Receiver #3

Current issue is ever since I messed with this network (I'm renting the house), TV #4 and #5's receiver went down and isn't working.

SYEdW72.png
 
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