Windows Users Should Want Windows 10 S to Succeed

Linux gives me EVERYTHING MS claims they want their -s to be security wise.

A proper package manager and .deb / flatpak type install files for direct downloads that hook into my package manager. No annoying registry orphans, no files left behind if I remove anything. One click update of all software, that doesn't require reboots and staring at blue install screens.

-s(hit) edition offers nothing of value to end users, -s only benefits MS.
 
heatlesssun said:
With Steam, Google Play, the App Store, Amazon Store, etc., virtually everyone here uses one or more app stores that takes a cut.
Click to expand...

I haven't spent a dime on any of the above. But I do use GOG.

The real issue, from my perspective, is not the existence of App stores, nor the existence of walled gardens which can have their place.

It is taking what I see as the most striking and successful contrast to the walled gardens, Windows, and attempting to also turn that into a walled garden.
 
ChadD said:
Linux gives me EVERYTHING MS claims they want their -s to be security wise.

A proper package manager and .deb / flatpak type install files for direct downloads that hook into my package manager. No annoying registry orphans, no files left behind if I remove anything. One click update of all software, that doesn't require reboots and staring at blue install screens.

-s(hit) edition offers nothing of value to end users, -s only benefits MS.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So no app store has ever benefited a platform. I find this curious when Linux folks are always talking about how Steam has made Linux gaming a thing. An app store that takes a cut, even for Linux sales.
 
heatlesssun said:
With Steam, Google Play, the App Store, Amazon Store, etc., virtually everyone here uses one or more app stores that takes a cut.
Click to expand...

Perfect, so it all makes sense that we need another one. -Wait, don't answer that. I already know you'll extol the virtues, rainbows, and unicorns associated with what MS does. How you can enjoy the full benefits of your sig rig whilst also pushing the Surface devices you have. And you can download from their store in high, scale-able DPI and it all just works. And, how everyone else is doing it, yes, we know. And, I'm really not trying to rip on you over this, but there's a large and vocal audience that wants nothing to do with this. And without hacks and forced gyrations, we're forced to what it is. So I think not real soon, but at some point in my future, Linux will probably have to be my OS.
 
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Snowdog said:
I haven't spent a dime on any of the above. But I do use GOG.

The real issue, from my perspective, is not the existence of App stores, nor the existence of walled gardens which can have their place.

It is taking what I see as the most striking and successful contrast to the walled gardens, Windows, and attempting to also turn that into a walled garden.
Click to expand...

I use Steam, Origin, uPlay, GoG, Vive ViewPort and the Windows Store. So I get the arguments against Windows 10 S but who uses a PC to that extent? And that's not counting Nook and Kindle with Windows clients connected to a store. Then there's stuff like iTunes. There's tons of stores on Windows. Maybe too many.
 
People who want windows s to be successful are the same people who want ios to be their computer os of choice.
Basically no one will buy into it because they already have a choice, that's playing with their iphones.
 
heatlesssun said:
Interesting. So no app store has ever benefited a platform. I find this curious when Linux folks are always talking about how Steam has made Linux gaming a thing. An app store that takes a cut, even for Linux sales.
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Funny I never realised using Steam meant I couldn't buy a Linux title from GOG.

One store to rule them all is not an option I would EVER want anything to do with. And I am hardly alone on that.

My point about a Linux package manager... is that you are not LOCKED to its use. The developers of every distro give you a way to install software and still hook into the PM for updating and uninstalls. If your running a Ubuntu distro and install a .deb file it hooks it into the PM... and doesn't say hey hey hey now didn't come from us No you don't. Every major distro has the same mechanics. Fedora and Suse use .rpm instead to the same effect... and their is other newer packaged formats like flatpak ect. Bottom line is the Linux Package Managers achieve everything MS tells us they want the windows store to be.... without locking you out of your computer to use it.
 
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So....why would someone want an OS that actually limits what they can install? There's so many things NOT in the windows store that I use on a daily basis. Steam is a big one. Good luck with the limited number of games on the Windows store. Want productivity software but can't afford Microsoft Office? Too bad. Microsoft Edge doesn't properly load a page you need? Tough luck.

Also, people arguing about app stores being good or bad is irrelevant to this discussion. Under standard Windows, you have access to other app stores if you want them. Steam, Origin, GOG, uPlay, even the Apple Store are all normally available. This literally locks you into only Windows Store, with no other options.
 
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Hypergreatthing said:
People who want windows s to be successful are the same people who want ios to be their computer os of choice.
Basically no one will buy into it because they already have a choice, that's playing with their iphones.
Click to expand...

Nope but, I am not afraid of choices, just like with MacOS.
 
At this point I don't trust microsoft enough to even consider them as gatekeepers for my computer.
Windows 10 S is a windows version noone has asked for and noone wants.

The writer is not clinically insane just your everyday ms shill. Who will no doubt make some false comparisons to steam and try to muddy the water and defend the indefensible. A closed ecosystem of apps where the only game in town is the ones approved by big brother.

And here is the snake in the grass: "forces them to ensure that their app doesn't do any of the things that Centennial doesn't allow." And we haven't talked about how the packaging affects performance, noone has which is strange to me. It might not affect it, but has anyone ever tested?

Besides the sandboxing prevents apps with external dependencies to function at all.

And then he goes on to say "While Windows 10 does try to promote the Store, the advantages aren't particularly well understood or promoted." while offering no insight into the supposed advantages. He makes one claim though. That store apps are easier to install and uninstall cleanly.
Well actually completely eradicating store apps is a pain in the ass, and necessitates the use of powershell, to get rid of most MS preferred apps.
Clean uninstalls is not really a virtue when you don't allow apps to install any dependencies in the first place. Apps with no dependencies and device drivers can be uninstalled just as easily without the store, by simply deleting them.

Call me old fashioned but I like to be in control of my computer, and windows store is yet another step in taking away some of that control.
 
ChadD said:
Funny I never realised using Steam meant I couldn't buy a Linux title from GOG.

One store to rule them all is not an option I would EVER want anything to do with. And I am hardly alone on that.

My point about a Linux package manager... is that you are not LOCKED to its use. The developers of every distro give you a way to install software and still hook into the PM for updating and uninstalls. If your running a Ubuntu distro and install a .deb file it hooks it into the PM... and doesn't say hey hey hey now didn't come from us No you don't. Every major distro has the same mechanics. Fedora and Suse use .rpm instead to the same effect... and their is other newer packaged formats like flatpak ect. Bottom line is the Linux Package Managers achieve everything MS tells us they want the windows store to be.... without locking you out of your computer to use it.
Click to expand...

Damn you, ChaD, you made me remove him from the ignore list, so I can read his nonsense! :ROFLMAO:
 
trick_m0nkey said:
Microsoft needs to stop trying to be like Apple. It's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

In what way? Are you thinking of the iTunes way in that you can only install from the App store, or the Mac app store where apps from the store are sandboxed, optimized for high DPI screens and auto update? Because they are going the Mac app store way. And before you say it, Apple isn't blocking you from installing from outside the store, unless you enable it. Minus the S edition, you can configure the normal versions of Windows the same way.
 
M76 said:
At this point I don't trust microsoft enough to even consider them as gatekeepers for my computer.
Windows 10 S is a windows version noone has asked for and noone wants.
Click to expand...

This x1000.

Microsoft poisoned their reputation with me, when they installed Windows 10 addware/nagware on my Windows 7 machine. That crossed WAY over the line.

It was pretty much ironic that they used OS updates to force their Adware onto my machine, for a version of Windows where I could no longer reject updates!

Since it was Windows 7, I could still remove the offending update, and block it from reinstalling.

But their abuse provided a perfect cautionary tale, why they can't be trusted to have full control over updates (or anything else IMO).
 
M76 said:
At this point I don't trust microsoft enough to even consider them as gatekeepers for my computer.
Windows 10 S is a windows version noone has asked for and noone wants.
Click to expand...

Not debating your point or saying you are right or wrong, I just wanted to point out: NOONE is not a word, it does not exist at all, so it means nothing. :D It is either no one or none, please get it right, thanks. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
With Steam, Google Play, the App Store, Amazon Store, etc., virtually everyone here uses one or more app stores that takes a cut.
Click to expand...

Yea except steam installs regular binaries into a regular directory. UWP is bs. It's basically an encrypted directory and app where you can't do any modding, you can't take any other updates, and many add ons don't work properly at all. If I am getting to vote with my wallet, I will vote for the software that works exactly the same without any drawbacks.

heatlesssun said:
Interesting. So no app store has ever benefited a platform. I find this curious when Linux folks are always talking about how Steam has made Linux gaming a thing. An app store that takes a cut, even for Linux sales.
Click to expand...

He's explaing how something like apt-get works perfect, does what the windows app store could do, except you don't get locked out. You can still go to the directory, chmod whatever you want, change whatever you want, but you got the app automatically, quickly, and safely. At a certain point, you might want to admit what you don't know because you're kind of embarrassing yourself on here.
 
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One constant theme with some pro-desktop Linux folks, if you mention gaming or VR or whatever isn't well supported on Linux, they'll say "Well that's niche, most people don't need that." And I generally agree with the point. No one is ever going to install the countless millions of Win32 apps in existence. The Windows Store doesn't needs thousands upon millions of apps to be all that probably a large percentage of Windows users would ever need. About 1000 of the right apps, including some existing games, would be all that many would ever need.

I don't see any reason why Windows 10 S and the Store can't sit with the rest of the ecosystem as long as it's not to the exclusion of everything else and as long as it's easy enough to move 10 S to other versions.
 
Windows RT Part 2 and no amount of subtle marketing will change anybody's mind. Yet another product nobody needs or wants.
 
Seventyfive said:
Yea except steam installs regular binaries into a regular directory. UWP is bs. It's basically an encrypted directory and app where you can't do any modding, you can't take any other updates, and many add ons don't work properly at all. If I am getting to vote with my wallet, I will vote for the software that works exactly the same without any drawbacks.
Click to expand...

And this is great, it's also an attack vector and honestly how many people ever do this type of thing.

Seventyfive said:
He's explaing how something like apt-get works perfect, does what the windows app store could do, except you don't get locked out. You can still go to the directory, chmod whatever you want, change whatever you want, but you got the app automatically, quickly, and safely. At a certain point, you might want to admit what you don't know because you're kind of embarrassing yourself on here.
Click to expand...

Yeah, chmod and go to the directory. What's so bad about a simplified version of Windows that does what most people would need without the complexity?
 
This is actually what I wanted out of Steam Machines. Not completely...meaning, I wanted the main app to be closed in nature to create a more streamlined console experience for TVs. Create a standard on which future content will be created. However, also allow the OS to be modded out for those that wish too. Still maintain the openness of a PC, but selling itself on ease of use and streamlined design. So, we get both the benefits of consoles and PC.

Still, for my main work station? No. Absolutely not. My criteria for entertainment and work are two vastly different things.
 
Monkey God said:
Windows RT Part 2 and no amount of subtle marketing will change anybody's mind. Yet another product nobody needs or wants.
Click to expand...

Big difference. Windows RT as an OS for a specific hardware platform. Windows 10 S is an x86 OS that can be easily upgraded to 10 Pro, free to $50 for now. Really, if the upgrade price could be reduced to $25, then I think Microsoft would have a much easier time. $25 for a Pro version of Windows is a historically low price and none of the risk involved with RT.

BTW, I was a big critic of Windows RT because the devices weren't cheaper than x86 full Windows devices and there was zero ecosystem in the Windows Store five years ago. While far from great there's a lot more there today.
 
Sonicks said:
That's not even remotely the argument made in the article. The author clearly states that it's 'implausible' for Microsoft to ever restrict all versions of Windows to the Store because of the sheer amount of legacy and business apps that won't ever make it into the Store.

The arugement being made is that this version of Windows will at least kick start a healthy Store app ecosystem. I would have to agree. If more apps are available through the Store I'd rather install them that way than to navigate to a site and download an installer (which, in the case of Handbrake for Mac OS over the weekend, can easily compromise your system).

It may be hard for 'legacy' users to agree on this but I would have to say that having a healthy selection of Store apps in addition to the traditional method of getting/installing apps actually gives us a lot more flexibility. It's simply more choices being offered.
Click to expand...

Why should I give a shit about a store app ecosystem? Your one example isn't even remotely enough to sway me. I don't trust any one company with that much power.
 
heatlesssun said:
One constant theme with some pro-desktop Linux folks, if you mention gaming or VR or whatever isn't well supported on Linux, they'll say "Well that's niche, most people don't need that."
Click to expand...

Well it didn't take long for you to go to VR for some odd reason. lol

Seriously though what I have said isn't that no one cares... but rather by the time the technology is anywhere close to being an issue for more then 0.05% of the market... Linux support will be on par. As things are its more likely Linux gets to 50% market share before VR does.... hell its more likely Linux will get to 25% market share before VR. So stop bringing it up no one really cares... I mean its great for a joke and forum side bets. How many posts before Heatle goes VR VR VR ?

People need to STOP comparing the Windows store to steam or GOG or any other store on the windows platform. Cause the windows store is the ONLY store that is being pitched as not just a one stop shop... but the ONLY stop shop. I will never support a PC operating system that locks you into their own store only. On a mobile device... I don't like that either, still I can at least understand on one level. As someone who worked in the cellular field for a good while at one point... I understand that smartphones without a closed or at least controlled ecosystem would never have happened in the North American market. When it comes to my personal PC though... no I wish ill on any company pushing for such a system. Take your MS employee hat off for just a min and think about what it is the -s represents.
 
ChadD said:
Well it didn't take long for you to go to VR for some odd reason. lol

Seriously though what I have said isn't that no one cares... but rather by the time the technology is anywhere close to being an issue for more then 0.05% of the market... Linux support will be on par. As things are its more likely Linux gets to 50% market share before VR does.... hell its more likely Linux will get to 25% market share before VR. So stop bringing it up no one really cares... I mean its great for a joke and forum side bets. How many posts before Heatle goes VR VR VR ?

People need to STOP comparing the Windows store to steam or GOG or any other store on the windows platform. Cause the windows store is the ONLY store that is being pitched as not just a one stop shop... but the ONLY stop shop. I will never support a PC operating system that locks you into their own store only. On a mobile device... I don't like that either, still I can at least understand on one level. As someone who worked in the cellular field for a good while at one point... I understand that smartphones without a closed or at least controlled ecosystem would never have happened in the North American market. When it comes to my personal PC though... no I wish ill on any company pushing for such a system. Take your MS employee hat off for just a min and think about what it is the -s represents.
Click to expand...

But this is actually where people like you do make a case for something like Windows 10 S because you're constantly making the point "That's niche." when it comes to the vast software ecosystem of Windows and VR is one you guys love to point out as niche. And while Windows 10 S is tied only to the Windows Store, well it's hard to get around Steam for modern games, it's not like all that content is available else where.
 
Snowdog said:
This x1000.

Microsoft poisoned their reputation with me, when they installed Windows 10 addware/nagware on my Windows 7 machine. That crossed WAY over the line.

It was pretty much ironic that they used OS updates to force their Adware onto my machine, for a version of Windows where I could no longer reject updates!

Since it was Windows 7, I could still remove the offending update, and block it from reinstalling.

But their abuse provided a perfect cautionary tale, why they can't be trusted to have full control over updates (or anything else IMO).
Click to expand...

THIS. The malware-like tactics that Microsoft stooped to in trying to push 10 onto more PC's burned any last bit of built up good will and user trust even among their most loyal and longtime users. Especially among their most loyal and longtime users.. Those kinds of actions don't occur in a vacuum, and have consequences.

The MS boosters like to play down the danger of a locked down windows store - "what's the big deal its just one more way to get software" -- they say that now because beggars can't be choosers. Except the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and we've seen how Microsoft behaves in an unopposed monopoly. The windows app store gaining any kind of traction would be absolute cancer for windows based computing.

The silver lining is that Microsoft continues to put zero effort into actually improving the quality of apps in the windows store, and so it's dead in the water in its current state. This is the weird dichotomy with the thing.
 
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heatlesssun said:
And this is great, it's also an attack vector and honestly how many people ever do this type of thing.
Click to expand...

LOL OMG that is your argument? You know what else is an attack vector? The internet. Let's just make a sanitized version of the internet while we're at it. Just like Microsoft knows what's best for us in terms of software, I'm sure someone can say what's best for us in terms of the internet and we'll just block out all the other "bad" sites.
 
Armenius said:
Idiot proofing is the death knell to innovation.
Click to expand...

And idiot proofing is needed for much of the general public.

I have a family member that has to go clean up a elderly relatives computer every few months due to it running "slow"
Even though he says he doesn't install anything, he somehow he manages to have multiple adware and junk AV programs installed.
If all installs where blocked (except from the windows store) this problem would go away.
I can see much less trouble with viruses and other malware, as a link wouldn't be allowed to install anything unless it was in the store.
 
nutzo said:
And idiot proofing is needed for much of the general public.

I have a family member that has to go clean up a elderly relatives computer every few months due to it running "slow"
Even though he says he doesn't install anything, he somehow he manages to have multiple adware and junk AV programs installed.
If all installs where blocked (except from the windows store) this problem would go away.
I can see much less trouble with viruses and other malware, as a link wouldn't be allowed to install anything unless it was in the store.
Click to expand...

Just restrict his user account controls, we already have a solution for this.
 
Bandalo said:
For myself? No way.

For my parents or other computer-illiterate family members to whom I provide free tech support? Hell yes.
Click to expand...

Microsoft should make Windows S available for free, and include a basic office apps (word/excel/email)
I can see installing this on older computers for people.
I upgraded several old laptops and gave them to people to use when the free windows 10 upgrade was available.
Windows 10 ran much better and booted faster on the older core 2 systems.

I'd probably down grade a few computer-illiterate family members to this version if it was free :D
 
Seventyfive said:
LOL OMG that is your argument? You know what else is an attack vector? The internet. Let's just make a sanitized version of the internet while we're at it. Just like Microsoft knows what's best for us in terms of software, I'm sure someone can say what's best for us in terms of the internet and we'll just block out all the other "bad" sites.
Click to expand...

Without the ability to arbitrarily run or alter native Win32 code, Windows 10 S is inherently more secure from local malware than other versions of Windows from local malware. Not impervious but if it can't inherently run Win32 malware then it is inherently more secure from local malware.
 
nutzo said:
Microsoft should make Windows S available for free, and include a basic office apps (word/excel/email)
I can see installing this on older computers for people.
I upgraded several old laptops and gave them to people to use when the free windows 10 upgrade was available.
Windows 10 ran much better and booted faster on the older core 2 systems.

I'd probably down grade a few computer-illiterate family members to this version if it was free :D
Click to expand...

I think you can use most of the Office apps for free online. So you get that to an extent.

I don't get all the hate honestly. I can see why most computer pros wouldn't be interested. I can't see why this wouldn't be damn-near ideal for the computer illiterate and things like schools and such where you need a locked-down machine.
 
Bandalo said:
I don't get all the hate honestly. I can see why most computer pros wouldn't be interested. I can't see why this wouldn't be damn-near ideal for the computer illiterate and things like schools and such where you need a locked-down machine.
Click to expand...

As an option 10 S makes a lot of sense. Where I do think there is some legitimate concern is if the Windows Store and 10 S become the ONLY options. While I get the concern it's just impractical for Microsoft to A) Want to house the entire Windows software library B) Win32 isn't going anywhere, indeed they're extending the life of Win32 by making it possible to port these applications to the store. C) There's things like services, development tools, low level tools, etc, that simply don't lend themselves for sandboxed app packages. And there's TONS of that stuff for Windows.

So as an option, 10 S tied to the Store makes sense. As the only option then yeah, that's big problem and it just doesn't seem to serve Microsoft's interests to do so.
 
It's funny, one of the largest complaints against windows was a lack of uniform way to promote software, now it's their biggest con for offering a unified way to promote software.
 
heatlesssun said:
One constant theme with some pro-desktop Linux folks, if you mention gaming or VR or whatever isn't well supported on Linux, they'll say "Well that's niche, most people don't need that." And I generally agree with the point. No one is ever going to install the countless millions of Win32 apps in existence. The Windows Store doesn't needs thousands upon millions of apps to be all that probably a large percentage of Windows users would ever need. About 1000 of the right apps, including some existing games, would be all that many would ever need.

I don't see any reason why Windows 10 S and the Store can't sit with the rest of the ecosystem as long as it's not to the exclusion of everything else and as long as it's easy enough to move 10 S to other versions.
Click to expand...

Such an argument doesn't work when the OS has 'Windows' in the title. Adding 'Windows' to the title means the masses subconsciously believe that the device should be capable of running everything the desktop variant can run. By the time they work out that they can't run every software package developed for Windows they're going to be even more pissed off with an OS most don't like and chances are their device is going to be too under powered to run a desktop variant of Windows 10 Pro in any way that could be considered a pleasant experience whatsoever in comparison to certain other operating systems on under powered hardware.

We know this as it already happened with Windows RT. The architecture was irrelevant, the fact you couldn't use it 'like a Windows machine using every software package written for Windows' was what turned the masses against RT. In many cases, even where software was available in the Windows Store for RT, in many cases you had to either pay for it when it was free to download as an .msi installer, or the software was limited in comparison to it's desktop counterpart.

I read the article in the OP last night and had to have a laugh, an OS tied to a store using encrypted sandboxes is not what the consumer wants, such a move has everything to do with Microsoft's back pocket as opposed to benefiting the consumer.
 
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BulletDust said:
Such an argument doesn't work when the OS has 'Windows' in the title. Adding 'Windows' to the title means the masses subconsciously believe that the device should be capable of running everything the desktop variant can run. By the time they work out that they can't run every software package developed for Windows they're going to be even more pissed off with an OS most don't like and chances are their device is going to be too under powered to run a desktop variant of Windows 10 Pro in any way that could be considered a pleasant experience whatsoever.

We know this as it already happened with Windows RT. The architecture was irrelevant, the fact you couldn't use it 'like a Windows machine using every software package written for Windows' was what turned the masses against RT.
Click to expand...

I've pointed out there is an issue here but it's nothing like Windows RT because there is a path to go to Windows 10 Pro which is free for now with the Surface Laptop. $50 for other devices does pose a problem and at the consumer level this is where I see the biggest issue. In the education market where I think most 10 S devices will go initially, there's no problem because 10 Pro is free upgrade for any education device from 10 S. I really don't expect to see a lot of 10 S devices in retail because OEMs are sensitive to the Windows RT problem and I think there'll be a better effort to make the distinction though.
 
heatlesssun said:
As an option 10 S makes a lot of sense. Where I do think there is some legitimate concern is if the Windows Store and 10 S become the ONLY options. While I get the concern it's just impractical for Microsoft to A) Want to house the entire Windows software library B) Win32 isn't going anywhere, indeed they're extending the life of Win32 by making it possible to port these applications to the store. C) There's things like services, development tools, low level tools, etc, that simply don't lend themselves for sandboxed app packages. And there's TONS of that stuff for Windows.

So as an option, 10 S tied to the Store makes sense. As the only option then yeah, that's big problem and it just doesn't seem to serve Microsoft's interests to do so.
Click to expand...

I agree...I certainly don't want Windows S to be the only thing on the market. I'd be perfectly fine with "Windows S" and Windows Pro" being available though. I can see some businesses leaning that way too...Your typical office worker gets Windows S, and your development team and those using in-house software use Win Pro. It would probably greatly simplify IT support.
 
heatlesssun said:
I've pointed out there is an issue here but it's nothing like Windows RT because there is a path to go to Windows 10 Pro which is free for now with the Surface Laptop. $50 for other devices does pose a problem and at the consumer level this is where I see the biggest issue. In the education market where I think most 10 S devices will go initially, there's no problem because 10 Pro is free upgrade for any education device from 10 S. I really don't expect to see a lot of 10 S devices in retail because OEMs are sensitive to the Windows RT problem and I think there'll be a better effort to make the distinction though.
Click to expand...

And as stated, the cheap hardware is going to provide a mildly usable, but somewhat frustrating Windows desktop experience - Resulting in even more frustrated Windows users that believe they were duped from the onset. May as well buy a slightly higher specification low end Windows 10 Home laptop for not much more outlay that's capable of providing a far better experience.
 
heatlesssun said:
As an option 10 S makes a lot of sense. Where I do think there is some legitimate concern is if the Windows Store and 10 S become the ONLY options. While I get the concern it's just impractical for Microsoft to A) Want to house the entire Windows software library B) Win32 isn't going anywhere, indeed they're extending the life of Win32 by making it possible to port these applications to the store. C) There's things like services, development tools, low level tools, etc, that simply don't lend themselves for sandboxed app packages. And there's TONS of that stuff for Windows.

So as an option, 10 S tied to the Store makes sense. As the only option then yeah, that's big problem and it just doesn't seem to serve Microsoft's interests to do so.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what Gabe warned about and everyone called him crazy. The masses drive software development (including Game development). If the masses are all running -s cause it does what they need. Then developers have to target it... they have to play by MS rules to gain access, they have to pay MS their cut to get a place at the table... they will be forced to pay MS advertising $ to get a good spot in the store. Yes Steam does charge a cut and for premium placement... however they are not the only option for an entire mass market OS. Windows -S is pure evil for what it represents and I will never ever ever suggest anyone I know or any client I ever deal with even consider it. -s needs to die and MS needs a good nut shot for even trying.
 
I see the Linux brigade is out in force today. They hate Windows blindly like people hate Trump blindly. Ignore the Linux folk here and it is a higher quality forum.
 
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