Windows Server 2003 Small Business Server (DELL) - Changing the licensing to standert

Discussion in 'Networking & Security' started by BenIT, May 10, 2005.

  1. BenIT

    BenIT Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    207
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Ok, Hers the story; I purchased for Dell a PowerEdge 420SC with the windows 2003 SBE server, now as you may know if you use the OS Install CD thay provided with the server on any other dell computer it would install, with no serial nessesery.

    Now I have a second Domain Controller (DC) that I want to add to my current network and the 2003SBE is the only one curently functionig as the DC.

    So I went and i made the second server another DC in the existing network, now the 2003 SBE is complaing about licensing violations, and it shuts itself down and on top of all that is wont sync the domain.

    So as i see it i need to "upgrade" this SBE server, and i dont see how i can do that with out haveing to re-do the entire domain (20 users/20 computers) and i dont need to go computer computer and transfer setting for 20 user and computers.

    so what i want to know is there any way for me to change the SBE server into a STANDERD server?
     
  2. Lint

    Lint Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2000
    Wait maybe I’m reading things wrong here but did you install the 2nd server with the same disk as the first server? There can only be one server running the sbs version of 2003 on a network everything else must be installed with a regular windows 2003 disk. If you installed the 2nd server with SBS as well then you need to promote the first server back to primary controller and then you will have to bring down that server and reformat with a regular 2003 disk

    From
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;842690#XSLTH3135121122120121120120
    Windows Small Business Server is a single-domain solution that is not intended to be integrated with other Windows-based domains. You are not permitted to establish explicit trusts to other Microsoft Windows NT-based domains or to Active Directory service domains. Also, Windows Small Business Server does not let you create child domains. The computer that is running Windows Small Business Server must have all operations master roles and must be at the root of the Active Directory forest.



    What I think happened is that when you brought up the 2nd server it grabbed the master roles and since they both NEED to be master because they're both sbs editions there's a problem. SBS is a good deal for a small business but you have to be aware of its restrictions.

    Anyway before i go any further I’ll wait on more details on how everything is setup maybe I’m looking into stuff that doesn't apply
     
  3. SJConsultant

    SJConsultant 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,608
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    What *exactly* did you do and with what disks?

    It sounds like to me you used the SBS disk and only installed the Windows 2003 server portion of the SBS install onto a 2nd computer. If thats the case, then you need to purchase a licensed copy of 2003 STD and reinstall your 2nd DC.

    Posting the event log errors or warnings would also help.

    FYI, you cannot demote an SBS system to a plain jane Server 2003 install, for starters its against the licensing, and second as you found out, it will complain and shutdown.

    As Lint stated, post more details and we can offer some advice on what to do.
     
  4. Lint

    Lint Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2000
    yeah i was thinking about that whole demote thing after i posted , i'm not too sure on how he's gonna handle that , he can probably just pull out the 2nd server and give master back to the first and it will probably be "functional" for the time being. i wouldn't be surprised if the server generates event logs about the missing DC all the time from that point on tho and he might run into weird issues from now on. i'm not entirely sure on what might or might not have happened to the AD.

    anyways yeah tell us exactly what you did and what you're getting in your event logs
     
  5. BenIT

    BenIT Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    207
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    I am sorry everyone for beening so unlclear; so here i clarify.

    This office started off with a 2003 SBE (standard i think) cuz this was the cheapest that Dell had to offer as a server and the idiot that put it in didnt know the difference, so now we needed to put in an additional server, so I went a got one from Dell with the 2003 Standerd and i tryed to trust them and i got all the errors with the licencing violations and all (which is when i found out that the other server is the SBE), so after running some google searches i found out that the SBE is supposed to be an only server and that everything runs off it, and you cannot place additional servers.

    So now i have the entire domain bound to the 2003 SBE and i cant do anything to expand. i have 20 users and 20 computers and i am NOT intrested in having to reconfigure each and every one agien (new domain, new user profile, network drives and shares etc.) and looking at the M$ trasition packages ($2,000) that i am not intrested in paying (i got the 2003 standard form dell for $700). http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsSer...gfaq.mspx#EABAA

    So what i need to know is if it is posibble to upgrade (rather then transide) to 2003 standard or if thats not possible, somhow to backup the domain settings and copy it over to a new and freshly installed server... or anything just not to have to redo this entire domain...

    I hope i made myself clearer.
     
  6. Lint

    Lint Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2000
    its a little clearer but i'm still confused , trying to get a timeline of things happening

    1 - bought server1 with 2003-SBS and installed, setup blah blah blah everything works
    2 - bought a 2nd server with 2003-Std to use as a backup domain controller
    3- installed 2nd server and got error messages and errors and stuff

    now what i need to know is what server is doing what , does one of them work? , which one is the one rebooting? what are the event log messages? how long does it take before it reboots?

    --------------------

    this is what i would do with the amount of info i have , if the first server is working i would unplug the 2nd one and give the master role back to the 1st if you can.

    At this point here i don't realy know how messed up your active directory is, everything after might or might not work. it also might work now and give you issues at a later date. i'm not realy sure, i never installed 2 sbs servers on the same network.

    then i would reformat the 2nd server with a windows 2003 standard with a different name. then bring it up on the domain and promote it to a DC and hopefully everything would work. you might have to clean up some AD entries to remove the non-existant domain controler.


    This might help with the cleanup
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;216498

    --------------------

    this is a prety serious problem that might come back to haunt you though so i'd post something on microsoft's message boards , maybe they would be able to suggest something else to you.
     
  7. Lint

    Lint Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2000
    humm wait , do you have a backup from before? , you might be able to restore your backup on the first server and go from there if all else fails.
     
  8. Darkstar850

    Darkstar850 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,308
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    *OK WAIT* Don't get rid of SBS just yet. What are you wanting to do with the second server? A domain controlled by a SBS box can have other 2k3 member servers no problem. Plenty of people over at the MS SBS user group are running networks with 2-3 other servers. I am not sure of the specifics (might look them up in a bit) but the restrictions are that the SBS box must be the PDC and root of the AD forest, and cannot trust another domain. I think the 2nd server can even be a backup domain controller.

    From the newsgroups :" You can have as many replica DCs as
    need for your business. SBS must contain all the FSMO roles (i.e. GC), but
    you can have additional GCs."

    For 20 users and 20 computers you are in a situation that is made for SBS. One thing that may be hampering you, you have to have a license for the added 2k3 servers on the SBS machine (ie the SBS considers the member servers as just another machine that requires a license to belong to the domain).

    EDIT: Link to SBS2k3 newsgroup. SBS2k3 MS Newsgroup
    Those guys, especially the MVPs, really know their stuff.
     
  9. SJConsultant

    SJConsultant 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,608
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    I believe I know what the problem is here.

    BenIT you need to call Microsoft and confirm the *exact* version of Windows you are running. I would like to know if the primary server runs Exchange or not.

    Microsoft does have a product call "Windows Server 2003 for Small Business" which I will post the following FAQ from MS website:

    "Q. I heard something about a Windows Server 2003 for Windows Small Business Server. Can you tell me more about this?

    A. Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server is a limited version of Windows Server 2003.

    Like Windows Small Business Server 2003, it is limited by license to a single server. Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server is deployed as a domain controller at the root of the directory forest and trusts to other domains are disabled.

    Unlike Windows Small Business Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server does not include a limited license for Exchange Server or Outlook 2003, and there are limited management and configuration tools. Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server sells for $479, which includes five Windows Server for Small Business Server CALs. Up to ten additional CALs can be purchased for $79 each. It works best for the small business that needs less than 15 CALs, yet wants to build its own suite of server applications, for instance, without Exchange Server. If more than 15 CALS are needed, a customer can purchase Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition with Windows CALs for less than the cost of Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server. "

    The above would concide with BenIT's problem of not being able to add another DC to the network.

    However I would like to point out that BenIT also stated he tried creating a trust relationship which cannot be done with the above mentioned product or the SBS product.

    Ben why did you try to create a trust instead of adding the server to an existing domain?

    BenIT we need to know *exactly* what version of Windows you are running on the primary server in order to determine how best to help you.
     
  10. BenIT

    BenIT Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    207
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Further Clarification.

    "Windows 2003 Small Business Server, Standard Edition" is the version i am running.

    Heres the setup; I have 1 office which has 20 Computers Running off the SBE-std server. Now we recently opend up a new office with another 10 computers in a totaly different location. Thay are connected VIA a 1.5m VPN Tunnel. Each location will be running its own domain (LOCATION1.local and LOCATION2.local).

    Now, I want the domains to stay apart BUT TO TRUST EACH OTHER. so when I tryed to put in the new server all went well, then I went on to setting up the trust and it wouldent go through, so I logged into the SBE-std server and got a shutdown warning for violating licencing restriction. So i removed the trust and now everything works fine, but I dont have the trust relationship i need.

    Now what I need to do to trust each other is to get SBE-std to change to 2003-std.

    And if this is not possible, then is there anyway i can migrate or export and import the existing domain onto a new server 2003-std so i can aviod haveing to redo the entire domain and its settings?

    I hope this clarify's things... thank you all for all the help your trying to give me, i truly appreceate it.
     
  11. SJConsultant

    SJConsultant 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,608
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Ok, trust relationships are out of the question as far as SBS is concerned and there isn't a supported way of converting SBS to STD except for the migration pack. Are you using Exchange? If so, then your best bet would be the migration pack in order to keep your licensing legit.

    I have never done an SBS downgrade to server 2003, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has accomplished this.

    Any reason why your setting this up as two different domains?
     
  12. BenIT

    BenIT Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    207
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    No there is no Exchange on the server.

    The resone that all i want is trusts cuz i dont need them to be fully asociated and hog up the whole VPN bandwidht, what i do want though is to syncronize all the files so that i have it in 2 locations plus there it will be backed up onto a tape as well
     
  13. SJConsultant

    SJConsultant 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,608
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Look into Distributed file system and File Replication. You can configure the Site links so that synchronization only happens on "off hours". Both can be accomlished in a single domain model.
     
  14. Darkstar850

    Darkstar850 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,308
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    You may be able to perform a swing migration on to 2k3. I am not certain, as it was developed for sbs -> new sbs migrations. You should ask on the newsgroup I linked earlier, as the developer of the process is a frequent poster.
    The website is http://www.sbsmigration.com/
    He charges for his tools and documentation, but it is a heck of alot cheaper than the transition pack.
     
  15. hulksterjoe

    hulksterjoe older and wiser now

    Messages:
    2,919
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2001
    Take a Look at the general FAQ on SBS2003
    http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsServer2003/sbs/techinfo/overview/generalfaq.mspx

    alot of your questinos are answered there.

    Q. Can I effectively implement Windows Small Business Server 2003 in an environment that connects one site to another using a slow data link?

    A. Yes. One way is to install Windows Server 2003 at the remote site, and then configure it as a replica domain controller. This enables Active Directory directory service information to replicate at the remote site, so that authentication requests do not have to travel over the slow data link. Also, using Outlook 2003 in Cached Exchange mode minimizes the amount of e-mail traffic between remote clients and the server.


    I know you wanted 2 domains but as an option