windows out of memory error...lolwhut?

venm11

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I haven't seen this in a loooong long time.

If I understand this correctly, it's using 13/13gb virtual memory. So the swap file is 6gb (for whatever reason) and 7gb of ram is consumed, that's 13gb. But, I do have 8gb of RAM. Is there some overhead I'm not accounting for, that wouldn't be reflected by task manager?

Fyi, this is win7 / 32 with PAE. There's 1gb free on c:\, maybe there's some rule preventing swap file from enlarging into that?

I would attach an image but .... how?? The window basically says, "Close programs to prevent information loss. Your computer is low on memory. Save your files and close these programs: Firefox"
 

venm11

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I think what triggered this was adding an exception to flashblock for youtube (as youtube blocks flashblock now). Now several of my hundreds of open tabs have flash video running in them.
 

bigdogchris

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You're using a hacked kernel to force PAE on an OS and for drivers that don't support it. For any problems you have I'd start there.
 
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Liger88

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You're using a hacked kernel to force PAE on an OS and for drivers that don't support it. For any problems you have I'd start there.


Had to google it because I haven't heard of any 32 bit hacks in a long long time and was scratching my head because it looked like you mentioned 32 bit Windows 7.

I'd definitely start there and move to a real 64 bit OS. It'll be an inconvenience at first, but seriously now. It's 2015, 64 bits is well passed mainstream, stop right now haha.
 

B00nie

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Time to get a proper computer. Pretty much no excuses to fight with 32-bit and low hdd space systems anymore.
 

venm11

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You're using a hacked kernel to force PAE on an OS and for drivers that don't support it. For any problems you have I'd start there.

The drivers do support it. They are required to support it. I'm a bit perturbed by this as a diagnosis.
 

venm11

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Seems to me that everyone got fixated on 32 bits and disregarded the other information. C'mon.
 
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venm11

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Time to get a proper computer. Pretty much no excuses to fight with 32-bit and low hdd space systems anymore.

The excuse I have is that PAE works as intended. It has worked for years as intended. The challenge is to explain the behavior now presented.
 

xorbe

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Browser extensions (like ABP) can gobble large amounts of memory per tab
 

Liger88

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Browser extensions (like ABP) can gobble large amounts of memory per tab


As does Flash. Then you add hundreds of open tabs, suggesting you rarely ever close and restart the browser. Slap some of the good ole Browser memory leaks that have plagued every version of every browser since their existence and tend to stay in memory even when you think it's closed. Rub a little bit of that 32 bit OS mentioned running a modified kernel and it's amazing you haven't run into problems before.

Nobody is knocking on you for using PAE, just that it's unnecessary in today's world (has been for 5 years) and adds unforeseen complications that are impossible to troubleshoot correctly.

When people have hardware issues or ones that point in that direction, what is the first tip that people always say? Set all overclocked hardware back to the default and test the stability, then continue with the troubleshooting process. It's just common practice to get back to a level field everyone can understand.
 

venm11

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Firefox isn't using that much memory, it is simply the app that's currently trying to allocate beyond what windows feels it should have. The issue is the total memory consumption.

I'm looking for more of an explanation along the lines of windows memory management behavior (by design or otherwise) that would explain why windows is bitching at me when I have a gig free.

Maybe something more in-depth than obvious stuff like "try rebooting" or "install a 64 bit os" or "close some tabs". I actually do have 64 bit os's elsewhere and a ff plugin that automatically unloads LRU tabs, the per-process memory use is well under control.
 

venm11

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For example, maybe hybrid sleep is changing the VM behavior to try and page as much stuff out to disk as possible?
 

Tsumi

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Again, as people have said, the first step to troubleshooting any problem is returning modified things to stock. The other thing to do is to undo the latest changes to the system. If you are unwilling to do that, then we cannot help you. Due to the intricacies of computer programming, things can go wrong at any time, especially when modifications are involved. And all it would take is for one bad line of code to clash with the rest, and that would be extremely difficult to troubleshoot.
 

xorbe

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Memory fragmentation can also lead to OOM (out of memory) if larger chunks are requested
 

Liger88

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Again, as people have said, the first step to troubleshooting any problem is returning modified things to stock. The other thing to do is to undo the latest changes to the system. If you are unwilling to do that, then we cannot help you. Due to the intricacies of computer programming, things can go wrong at any time, especially when modifications are involved. And all it would take is for one bad line of code to clash with the rest, and that would be extremely difficult to troubleshoot.


Or try and replicate the problem on another similar spec'd "clean" machine. That's about the most you can do if you really think it's one program or plugin causing all the headaches. Depends on the frequency. Even if a plugin is causing the issue you'd be hard pressed to get them to push that to the forefront because again, the dreaded hacked kernel subject that I know you find frustrating and beating the dead horse at this point.

People haven't seen that message in ages for a reason. RAM has exploded in capacity and 64 bits took over long before software could make it became a big problem when we were on 32 bit OSes and software was still being designed for 32 bit applications. Now, perhaps it's something small that you'll figure out or get around and all will be normal again, but it isn't going to stop people from questioning in the future.

At least you were honest about it from the beginning though. It could be pointless for you, or it could be solving your own problem. All I can think of is trying to replicate the problem on another machine. If you can't that says something. If you can that too says something.
 

B00nie

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Firefox isn't using that much memory, it is simply the app that's currently trying to allocate beyond what windows feels it should have. The issue is the total memory consumption.

I have had Firefox consume 3-4 gigabytes of memory while working and having many tabs open. I seriously can't see why you struggle with the 32-bit version unless you need to use some app that doesn't work with 64-bit Windows.
 

venm11

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Memory fragmentation can also lead to OOM (out of memory) if larger chunks are requested

I don't think that's an issue on modern operating systems + processors. The MMU takes care of all that.
 
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venm11

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Again, as people have said, the first step to troubleshooting any problem is returning modified things to stock. The other thing to do is to undo the latest changes to the system. If you are unwilling to do that, then we cannot help you. Due to the intricacies of computer programming, things can go wrong at any time, especially when modifications are involved. And all it would take is for one bad line of code to clash with the rest, and that would be extremely difficult to troubleshoot.

But that's not my question. I'm trying to find out *why* it's happening, not simply fix it.

And... the reason I don't simply fix it is because this is one of my legacy machines which I wish to preserve. I want to have everything on it accessible in case I need something which didn't make it to whatever my current machine is (TBD, really).
 

stormy1

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why it is happening?
Simple a single app can only access 4gb of memory on a 32 bit system and firefox is hitting that limit triggering the warning.
You can have a lot of free memory with pae but you will get that warning when a single app hits 4Gb on 32bit windows.
 

B00nie

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why it is happening?
Simple a single app can only access 4gb of memory on a 32 bit system and firefox is hitting that limit triggering the warning.
You can have a lot of free memory with pae but you will get that warning when a single app hits 4Gb on 32bit windows.

Actually the limit is 2Gb unless the app is coded with the /3G -flag in which case it can access 3 gigs.

Only on a 64-bit OS a 32-bit process can access all of the 4gigs the address space allows for.
 

gamerk2

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Actually the limit is 2Gb unless the app is coded with the /3G -flag in which case it can access 3 gigs.

Only on a 64-bit OS a 32-bit process can access all of the 4gigs the address space allows for.

Yes, that's correct and the most likely cause. On Win32, Firefox is limited to using 2GB of Address Space at any one time, and since it's never getting restarted, every bit that is being lost (as happens a lot in browsers, sadly) is counting against it. Give it enough time, and the app eventually fails a malloc assignment when it requests memory, and Windows throws an "Out of Memory" message.

As an aside, PAE is very hackish in implementation, and very barely works at all. Any ONE driver on the system that doesn't support it causes it to break, which is why using it is not recommended.

Also, there's almost nothing Win 7 32 can run that Win 7 64 can't, unless you have some HW driver that simply doesn't have an x64 version. Aside from that, theres no reason to be running Win 7 32.
 

stormy1

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Actually the limit is 2Gb unless the app is coded with the /3G -flag in which case it can access 3 gigs.

Only on a 64-bit OS a 32-bit process can access all of the 4gigs the address space allows for.
Thanks for the correction.
 

Tsumi

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But that's not my question. I'm trying to find out *why* it's happening, not simply fix it.

And... the reason I don't simply fix it is because this is one of my legacy machines which I wish to preserve. I want to have everything on it accessible in case I need something which didn't make it to whatever my current machine is (TBD, really).

You aren't going to find out "why" it's happening until you do something that "fixes" it. Unless you have a Cortana-like AI (the Halo Cortana) that can trace all code paths in real time.
 

pxc

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Yeah, it could be memory fragmentation, but there are other resource limitations which cause out of memory conditions too (the desktop heap size is only 20MB on Vista and 7, regardless of memory installed or 32/64 bit version... this was a problem in 2006 so WTH). I see it rarely with a gazillion browser tabs, windows and programming IDE open on a 4GB system. Closing a couple resolves it.
 

/dev/null

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Actually the limit is 2Gb unless the app is coded with the /3G -flag in which case it can access 3 gigs.

Only on a 64-bit OS a 32-bit process can access all of the 4gigs the address space allows for.

THIS++
 

venm11

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You aren't going to find out "why" it's happening until you do something that "fixes" it. Unless you have a Cortana-like AI (the Halo Cortana) that can trace all code paths in real time.

Solving a problem usually doesn't give you an explanation why it occurred - in itself. For example, installing a 64-bit windows might appear to solve the problem.... but that gives no information about why it occurred.

Maybe someone could have recognized the specific message I was getting and explained under what conditions it's triggered. And possible reasons why it might be triggered despite there being sufficient free memory (maybe the ratio is a trigger?).
 

B00nie

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Solving a problem usually doesn't give you an explanation why it occurred - in itself. For example, installing a 64-bit windows might appear to solve the problem.... but that gives no information about why it occurred.

Maybe someone could have recognized the specific message I was getting and explained under what conditions it's triggered. And possible reasons why it might be triggered despite there being sufficient free memory (maybe the ratio is a trigger?).

Check your firefox overall memory consumption. If it exceeds 2 gigabytes that's your answer there.
 
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