Windows just works and Other OS improvements

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by ManofGod, May 6, 2017.

  1. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Windows 7 is pretty much as malware infested as any Windows OS so that's an odd point to make.
     
  2. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I did not know cortana and metro were in 7? I must have a good version then, it has none of it.
     
  3. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    If you're saying that Windows 7 works perfectly with high DPI displays, ok. Windows 10 works a hell of lot better.
     
  4. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So WannaCry didn't effect 7? Be a little more real about it.
     
  5. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I have never tried a high dpi display to my knowledge. But 7 works on my 4K just fine with games.


    It affected every single win 7 installation on the planet? Holy crap! I did not know that!
     
  6. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep, when you just set it up for specific purpose and then leave it alone, I agree. However, Windows 10 does just work, despite your disparate opinion to the contrary.
     
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  7. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Set it up for a specific purpose? Yeah, it's purpose is to compute. I compute a lot!

    Yes, 10 does work, I never said it didn't? Dam, maybe you are just trolling people? Or your reading comprehension sucks.
     
  8. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardness Supreme

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    Or perhaps you knew exactly what I meant previously and are attempting to be a contrarian well claiming you are not. Oh well, and just so we make it clear, Windows just works and other OSes have improvements too......
     
  9. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Yes, I am sure other OS's have improvements to them. Linux is good at updating and such as well.
     
  10. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So does 10 with games. 10 vs 7 on a 4k display with desktop apps is another matter.

    So yes, Windows 7 was just as vulnerable.
     
  11. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Constantly. You just implied that Windows 7 wasn't vulnerable to WannaCry where Windows 10 was because Cortana?
     
  12. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I did? I would love to see the post where I stated that!

    Did you and manofgod go to the same school by chance? ;)
     
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  13. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Linux is good at updating. So someone needs to do the comparison. One complaint I see around here with the Windows 10 CU has to do with HDR and color profiles. Things that I've never even hear a Linux user mention. Let alone performance issues with games that don't exist natively under Linux.

    All I want is an apples to apples comparison when talking about these types of things. Will Linux update better than Linux and run all of my software just fine? And that's the question where it all falls apart. Linux works better than Windows for what it's expected to do. Likewise, when people complain of a Windows 10 uninstalling software, there's usually no Linux version to install in the first place.
     
  14. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Manofgod said other OSes have improvements too. I just agreed that other OS's do improve. Nothing more or less.
     
  15. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    WannaCry can effect every unpatched system before March as easily as Windows 10. Is that so hard to say?
     
  16. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Put the crack pipe down. ROFL. I have NFI what you are babbling about.
     
  17. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Sure. But when it comes to specifics there's a lot disagreement on that. I think Windows 10 has improved because it works better than Windows 7 with touch and ink. Some will say that's a draconian compromise. Some will say that desktop Linux gaming is getting better, but in the absolute count of supported games, Linux is getting further behind than ever.

    So improvement is a matter of perspective.
     
  18. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Which has nothing to do with the fact that Windows 7 was just as vulnerable as Windows 10 to WannaCry, except for whatever reason WannaCry didn't even attempt to attack Windows 10 systems via the SMB worm. But ShadowBrokers did make a threat to attack Windows 10 buy name next month. Heaven help people with your attitude with Windows 7.
     
  19. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    Yes, yes, I agree. It's ok. Breathe. I still have NFI what you are talking about, but it's all good.
     
  20. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Just not sure why you're having such a hard time admitting that Windows 7 is at least as full of security flaws as Windows 10. And whatever NFI is it works with 10 as well, correct?
     
  21. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I guess. I never said otherwise which is why I have NFI what you are talking about. All OS's have security flaws. Just a given.
     
  22. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So you have NFI which is as effective with Windows 10 as 7. Cool.
     
  23. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I really don't care about the worm or virus's that are out. All OS's are vulnerable to something, it's just a matter if they get hit or not.
     
  24. BulletDust

    BulletDust 2[H]4U

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    What are you on about? What makes you believe that every comment evolves around you! Why would I make such statement and use you as a comparison! that's the kind of logic you'd use!

    Once again.

    I have two PC's here, both with SSD's, both i7/Xeon class machines, both with spinner HDD's for storage, both with 16GB of ram. In order to configure those machines back to a perfectly usable, finalised state the Windows machine takes around 4 hours vs around 45 - 1hr for the Linux machine - The reason for the increased time getting Windows to a usable state is all due to the use of a registry as opposed to an OS that uses a collection of files and text based scripts.

    All of my games are under Steam, I refuse to use any other game client as I believe they're a bloatware, annoying PITA. Because my games are under Steam I can transfer my whole Steam directory (on a 2TB HDD) under Windows without re installing a single game.

    Furthermore, a single 4k monitor works fine under Windows 7, there's enough DPI adjustment to make the experience perfectly usable on a single monitor.
     
  25. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Of course you care.

    This is caring. If you installed updates that specifically took care of this problem or remediated some other way, you care. This was marked as a remote execution vulnerability, I most definitely care about those.
     
  26. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    What makes you believe that every comment evolves around you! Millions of PC gamers, far more than you could have ever serviced personally or know anything about, use game stores other than Steam, at least if they are using Linux, which is virtually all PC gamers. Because like you say, it's not all about you.

    But those millions of gamers are nothing but a niche nothing to you because according to you 80% of PC users don't game. You always make if about you.
     
  27. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Without the specs so what? You have to list exactly what you're installing and how on both platforms. There's no one in this forum that would take these numbers with no information to mean anything.
     
  28. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I don't update often. I am just careful. I can reload easily anyways, so not a huge deal. The games would be the most annoying is all.
     
  29. BulletDust

    BulletDust 2[H]4U

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    As always, you're desperately splitting hairs.

    Both my PC's are used by 'me' with OS installs of around 12GB on both machines, no good including the software on the Windows machine as only games can be transferred in the Steam folder, everything else needs to be reinstalled from scratch unless there's a config file that can be applied, which takes time in itself due to the need to apply it on a case by case basis and the software will still need to be reinstalled.

    Naturally, that indicates that both my PC's require similar software packages based around my usage scenario - Otherwise I'd use Windows and I wouldn't use Linux, everything I do on my Windows PC I do on my Linux PC using either the same software application or any number of hundreds of perfectly suitable alternatives.

    The Windows machine runs nothing that would increase install time unnecessarily by around three hours in direct comparison to the Linux machine. What increases install time by three hours on the Windows Machine is:

    A - Subscribed packages that cannot simply be transferred and must be re downloaded and installed.

    and

    B - The registry. I can't quickly and easily simply transfer software from one install to another, most software must be reinstalled.

    If you can get a Windows PC from nothing to a fully working state 'not including all games but including every single other software application you care to use all configured and finalised perfectly' and not just a 'basic setup with apps' on the tablet that you use when it's convenient - And do that in 45 mins (clean install, not an image), once again, not including the install of games as I don't need to reinstall games in my Steam folder - I'd love to see it.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:54 AM
  30. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Yes silly. That is exactly how it works most of the time if your a long time Linux user and know what you are doing There is a reason most non new user Linux distros default to 3-4 partitions by default. If you find a distro that tends to ship with 90% of the applications you use anyway there isn't much to re-install. Settings and files will be in your /home part. Changing from one distro to another can rarely cause issues but isn't often an issue.... if your reinstalling the same distro or a distro based on the same base chances are everything will just work on a fresh install the way you left it on the old one.

    http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/upgrade-switch-linux-distros-without-losing-files/
     
  31. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    2 hours ! damn that is still 4-5x longer then your average Linux distro installed fully updated with full libre / codecs / Video Audio players and editors ect ect ect.
     
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  32. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Linux handles HDR just fine thanks for asking. Do you think Pixar and every other major 3d rendering house is fully Linux and they are lacking such basic features. lol

    And here we go again... my sofwares my softwares. I commend you for not mentioning VR. lol
     
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  33. BulletDust

    BulletDust 2[H]4U

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    Speaking to sources and real admins (the kind that can manage more than just Windows systems) Linux dominates in the animation SFX industry. Windows and OSX just don't have what it takes regarding render farms and due to the fact Maya appears to be the software package of choice and runs under Linux even the front end machines all run a Linux desktop.
     
  34. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Yes at Pixar and most 3D animation houses Maya is their goto modeling software. Their are other big rigging softwares like SideFXs Houdini which runs very nice on every major distro, blender hooks into renderman these days and I understand blender is starting to see some actual high end work done on it now. Katana is another heavily used piece of software. (it has been used for things like the title sequence of deadpool)

    Before you say it yes heatle most of these have windows ports... but make no mistake they are ports and major houses do not use windows. Most port to windows for a small handful of smaller houses... and so that kids can learn to use them. (you will notice most of this software like renderman is free for non-commerical use, or they have apprentice versions which are free, or as in the case of SideFx education licences that are $50, not the 3-4k a full commercial setup costs)

    Pixar has developed and been using renderman for years. They started on old SGI unix based machines but have switched to Linux years back of course. Every major SFX company in the world is 100% linux at this point.
    https://renderman.pixar.com/view/renderman
    https://renderman.pixar.com/view/movies-and-awards
    https://www.sidefx.com/filmtv/demo-videos/
    (Every major effects movie release for years now has been modeled in Linux, Rendered in Linux... and post production is likewise handled by Linux systems. So the idea that Linux can't do HDR is laughable. Linux is where the HDR demo content starts life.)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:33 AM
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  35. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    So where's any info on this? Who hear is using HDR under Linux?
    I spend a lot of money on PC hardware and software. I expect my stuff to work like anyone would.
     
  36. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardness Supreme

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    If you do not like the responses you are reading here, you are always more than welcome to start your own Windows vs linux thread. Otherwise, this is not the thread you are looking for, move along, move along.

    *Of course, we already know that any thread started by the perpetrators would largely be an echo chamber and largely ignored by most.
     
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  37. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    This conversation started out on the subject of from scratch installations. Copying from existing installs isn't a clean install and yeah, your games collection is a lot smaller. This kind of comparison is pointless without specifics.
     
  38. Hagrid

    Hagrid Gay for Kyle Fanclub President

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    I am not sure on a regular installation, but windows would take longer since you need 3rd party software installations to get rid of the bloatware/virus's/spyware.
     
  39. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Guess your talking about consumer grade junk.

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=FreeSync-2-Announcement

    Companies that have had a use for "HDR" wider colour-gamut monitors for years have had it... yes its mostly custom stuff and monitors regular people don't buy.
    Such as the HP/Pixar designed DreamColor line of high colour-gamut monitors which many major studios have been using for many years. The current go to is the HP Z27x its main selling feature is it conforms to DCI P3 the film industry colour standard. The current HP hits 93.7% of it according to ars, which is very good. (the Ultra HD premium 8k spec requires devices to hit DCI P3 90%) HP won a technical oscar for their dreamcolor line last year.

    You are refering to consumer grade stuff... which yes Linux is rolling drivers mainstream support for those standards now. There are multiple standards and go figure support is odd, just as it is in every other OS. "HDR" has been around a long time and their are DCI P3 monitors that have been shipping for years.

    Their isn't any technical issues with Linux and HDR, heck even the samsung galaxy phones have had "HDR" displays since galaxy 7.

    Nvidia is dragging their feet a bit on consumer grade linux hdr drivers (the standards your talking about) however their engineers have talked about it and full support should be hitting their linux drivers in the next few months, for you gamer types.

    So if you wanna talk about just work... sure the "HDR" standard DRM locked down consumer junk. Yep windows support for nvidia hardware is superior for another few months or so.

    What exactly are you on about ?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:06 PM
  40. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Ok, if that's what someone wanted to do, most folks on a consumer install would care. And this is why I'm saying you have to do an apples to apples comparison. Setting up developments tools from scratch, that can take some time, even with Linux. A full blown install of VS 2017 takes a lot of time and 65 GB of space. Eclipse and it's tooling isn't much different in terms of size.

    Even if a base Linux install from scratch is faster setting everything else up be it Windows or Linux can get complicated, and there's been plenty of threads in this form where Linux installs, like Windows, were far from 10 minute affairs. But there's no way that a Windows 10 install with cumulative updates on a modern Core i5/i7 device with SSD should take over 4 hours. I've never come close to that even on Atom/eMMC machines from scratch, the worst I've seen there is about 2 hours. Installing Windows 10 on my sig rig last summer was the fastest Windows install from scratch I've personally ever done. The Intel 750 was the reason why and that from start to finish with a USB drive install and cumulative updates, vNvidia and motherboard drivers and Office 365 was 30 minutes.