Windows is finally getting native RAR support + RIP Cortana

GDI Lord said:
I was referring to e.g. .NET framework - type standard. (In my developer brain, I've been using .NET so long I consider it part of Windows.)
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That makes no practical difference, and I fail to see the benefit as a developer either. The easiest thing in Visual Studio is to include an external library if you need it. There is absolutely no need for AI to be standardized in Windows or .NET, which is basically distinction without a difference. Are you even able to install Windows now without the .NET framework?
 
GDI Lord said:
That's exactly why I stick with Windows, funnily enough. I've had more issues with Linux over the years than with Windows, both in a corporate environment and home use.

The last issue I had with Windows updates breaking ANYTHING was when I was running the Win 10 Preview. I've had way too many things break doing a "simple" update with apt-get the times I've had to use Linux for work purposes.
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And I've had the opposite experience. Since Win 8 came out (when I started using Linux) I've really only had one problem with an update on Linux. After a Thunderbird update I could no longer get Thunderbird to run, AppArmor was preventing it from running. Just had to tell AppArmor to not check on Thunderbird to get it working again.

In the first couple years of Win 10 I had multiple computers that couldn't do a feature update. Would have to do a fresh install with the latest ISO and then thley'd be fine. Happened multiple times and not necessarily with the same computers.
 
Sycraft said:
It's at 30% and rising on Steam. Most people have no issues with using it, the majority that are still on 10 are just there because they don't tend to upgrade OS unless they upgrade their computer.

The only people that seem to have issues with it are angry nerds that are just determined to hate on anything new.
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I disagree, things that used to be 2 clicks are now 3. And they ditched the common spoken language for symbols. It's a complete fail. The guts of the OS are fine it's just dumb design decisions. We'll all get used to it, but some of it doesn't make sense to me.
 
It's like none of you have heard of 7zip. It's legitimately free and it's better in every way. About a thousand times faster unzipping large files. It's one of the first things I install on a new PC.
 
TheToE! said:
I disagree, things that used to be 2 clicks are now 3. And they ditched the common spoken language for symbols. It's a complete fail. The guts of the OS are fine it's just dumb design decisions. We'll all get used to it, but some of it doesn't make sense to me.
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This is what I mean by nerd rage. You are mad about one very minor change, one you can change back with a registry key. It's fine to say "I don't like this new way of doing things as much," but if that's the reason for not using it, that's pretty silly. The amount of anger is outsized to the actual changes/impact.

Also, sometimes it is worth giving changes a try. You might not initially like it because it is different, but maybe it really is better. I remember way back in the Windows 95 days I was quite resistant to the new Windows way of doing things. I opened up a DOS prompt for everything like file management and such, always used 8.3 names and all the things I'd always done. However, slowly I started trying things and what do you know? File management is much easier in a GUI, file names that are longer can be more descriptive, etc.

Sometimes you'll find a change you don't like, and there's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with customizing to go back. As I mentioned, I use Start 11 because I like the modern take on a Windows 7 style menu. But it is worth giving things a try first.
 
auntjemima said:
I don't get the windows 11 hate, but I also didn't get the Windows 10 hate.

Outside of 95 -> 98(SE) -> ME, and then Vista -> 7, every major release has changed significantly. Things change, adapt.
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Or we could just admit that each release is getting shittier and shittier.
 
M76 said:
The easiest thing in Visual Studio is to include an external library if you need it.
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VS is basically MEF (Microsoft Extension Framework) where everything is a plugin, so technically it's an external library.

M76 said:
There is absolutely no need for AI to be standardized in Windows or .NET
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"There is absolutely no need for <cloud computing API> / <local processing API> to be standardised in Windows or .NET."
I disagree with you wholeheartedly. A lack of options is a bad thing.

M76 said:
Windows or .NET, which is basically distinction without a difference
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They are extremely different. This isn't your grandmother's programming framework anymore. It's completely OSS and cross-platform and will run on basically anything.

M76 said:
Are you even able to install Windows now without the .NET framework?
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Yes, like I said, they are very different things and one can have a Windows installation without a .NET runtime.
 
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I imagine it has been mentioned at some point, but DevDrive-yaml full setup of a dev machine with nice out of the box the real time anti-virus can take some break off my own dev project, native .rar support, AI copilot in the terminal etc... all nices.

Never combine icon in the taskbar was available in that new built !
 
Sycraft said:
It's at 30% and rising on Steam. Most people have no issues with using it
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That rising number is almost entirely artificial. Just like when people were saying Windows 10 adoption was "strong", yeah it was strong because Microsoft was using malware disguised as Windows Updates to force it down to every possible computer. They actively re-issued updates dozens of times to circumvent people blocking them from being installed, and issued dozens more intentionally confusing and cryptically worded updates with GWX functionality embedded in them.

Windows 11 is doing the exact same thing, forcing computers that meet the minimum requirements to automatically update to it without user intervention. I know several people that left their machines running one night on Windows 10, only to find that Windows 11 was on their computer the next day. Was never prompted about any upgrade.

auntjemima said:
People said the same about 10 over 7. In the end it was significantly better by all metrics.
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If by better, you mean worse in all metrics, then most definitely.

Microsoft has steadily removed and restricted user freedom and control with every Windows version since 8, and has steadily removed features for no sensible reason, other than their quest to emulate Apple, and form over function.

They're not going to stop until your $2000 workstation netboots directly from their mothership and is a complete walled garden they have absolute control over. Windows 365 already exists, it's only a matter of time until that's all that exists. You'll have the privilege of paying a subscription to use your expensive hardware, and also be the end product, with them collecting and selling all of your data.
 
GDI Lord said:
That's exactly why I stick with Windows, funnily enough. I've had more issues with Linux over the years than with Windows, both in a corporate environment and home use.

The last issue I had with Windows updates breaking ANYTHING was when I was running the Win 10 Preview. I've had way too many things break doing a "simple" update with apt-get the times I've had to use Linux for work purposes.
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I'm sure that's true but I was really talking the overall - the difference in patterns of behavior and policy of each platform holder. Ultimately we'll make our decisions by our subjective personal experiences, but I moved my critical stuff to linux not under the delusion I'd be immune to technical glitches or updates breaking things, but removing the variable of a platform owner that has bricked systems purely out of business/marketing decisions.

When Microsoft deliberately crafted a sophisticated, out-of-band (backdoor) method of force-downloading and installing Windows 10 on Windows 7 PC's that had all the force-upgrade stuff blocked in every known way (they targeted edge case power users, not casuals ignoring upgrade nags), and that backdoor install bricked my PC's and cut me off from remote access work for weeks while I traveled, that was the last straw in a pattern of hostile "better to apologize than ask permission" MS policy actions that zeroed my faith and interest in using Windows, or really any Microsoft product for anything but the most absolutely unimportant, if at all.
 
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GiGaBiTe said:
That rising number is almost entirely artificial. Just like when people were saying Windows 10 adoption was "strong", yeah it was strong because Microsoft was using malware disguised as Windows Updates to force it down to every possible computer. They actively re-issued updates dozens of times to circumvent people blocking them from being installed, and issued dozens more intentionally confusing and cryptically worded updates with GWX functionality embedded in them.

Windows 11 is doing the exact same thing, forcing computers that meet the minimum requirements to automatically update to it without user intervention. I know several people that left their machines running one night on Windows 10, only to find that Windows 11 was on their computer the next day. Was never prompted about any upgrade.



If by better, you mean worse in all metrics, then most definitely.

Microsoft has steadily removed and restricted user freedom and control with every Windows version since 8, and has steadily removed features for no sensible reason, other than their quest to emulate Apple, and form over function.

They're not going to stop until your $2000 workstation netboots directly from their mothership and is a complete walled garden they have absolute control over. Windows 365 already exists, it's only a matter of time until that's all that exists. You'll have the privilege of paying a subscription to use your expensive hardware, and also be the end product, with them collecting and selling all of your data.
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HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MICROSOFT!! Apparently, if you do not like Windows and the direction of its development, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

I still cannot believe people defend Microsoft after years of added spyware (telemetry that you cannot fully turn off), removal of features, restricting customization, locking down the ability to create local accounts, etc. but then applaud them when they add in something like RAR support. It's almost a joke at this point.
 
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M76 said:
It's already annoying me that the windows aren't listed in order of opening in Windows 10, but grouped together by application.
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I always hated that you can't ungroup different applications myself.
 
techie81 said:
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MICROSOFT!! Apparently, if you do not like Windows and the direction of its development, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

I still cannot believe people defend Microsoft after years of added spyware (telemetry that you cannot fully turn off), removal of features, restricting customization, locking down the ability to create local accounts, etc. but then applaud them when they add in something like RAR support. It's almost a joke at this point.
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Microsoft is and always will be a perpetual dumpster fire.

I've used Linux for over 20 years, and finally dumped all vestiges of Redmond back in 2019 when I upgraded my workstation. Went from Windows 7 to Fedora and couldn't have been happier. The very tiny number of programs that are Windows only I still use run fine under WINE or a Virtualbox VM. Fedora did have some teething issues, but I knew what to expect, and the issues were not terribly difficult to fix. Those teething issues required far less effort to fix than the effort required to keep a Windows machine running properly on a daily basis.

I won't claim Linux is perfect, it is not, but I don't have to be continually terrified about my expensive and complex setup being bricked by untested and unverified updates being forced on to my machine. The only machine I have that still runs Windows is my 3D printer server in my garage, mostly because I'm too lazy to upgrade it to Linux. The next time MS bricks it (which they've done 7 times now) I'll get motivated and put Linux on it as well.
 
GDI Lord said:
VS is basically MEF (Microsoft Extension Framework) where everything is a plugin, so technically it's an external library.
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An external library that you have installed in windows 11 whether you like it or not.
GDI Lord said:
"There is absolutely no need for <cloud computing API> / <local processing API> to be standardised in Windows or .NET."
I disagree with you wholeheartedly. A lack of options is a bad thing.
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Building an AI into windows is not an option it is the exact opposite, it is taking away the option of choosing your own. Technically you can still use another one if you install it on top, but then it becomes bloat. It's like internet explorer / Edge, you can install another browser but you can never get rid of the one pre-installed with windows. Making it an option would mean not integrating it into windows but offering it as a checkbox at installation which you can choose to uncheck.
GDI Lord said:
They are extremely different. This isn't your grandmother's programming framework anymore. It's completely OSS and cross-platform and will run on basically anything.
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If .NET runtime is installed with Windows no questions asked then I consider it part of windows. It's availability for other OS-es does not change that.
GDI Lord said:
Yes, like I said, they are very different things and one can have a Windows installation without a .NET runtime.
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Not according to Microsoft:
NET Framework 4.8 is included with Windows 11, and runs any .NET Framework 4.x app.
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Zarathustra[H] said:
There is really only one new thing I strongly dislike about Windows 11, and that is that they keep making it harder to install it without using/creating a Microsoft account.

With Windows 10 you could just disconnect the network during install. Now that no longer works. If you don't have network connectivity the Windows 11 installer will not proceed.

You have to have network when you start the install to let it start, but before you get to the "enter your Microsoft credentials screen" you have to use the hotkeys to open the command line and drop the internet connection from there.
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I tried a clean install of Win 11, and gave up because I didn't have network connectivity. Exactly how was I supposed to have WiFi already installed on a clean (no drivers set up yet) install? :wtf:
Zarathustra[H] said:
One thing is for sure. The day they force me to have anything other than a local user account only system, is the day I delete my windows partition for good. I will never accept needibg to be logged into an internet server to use my local machine. That's like the bullshit the games industry tried to pull with always online single player games. Thankfully linux is an option, but I will set my goddamn computer on fire before I ever accept having to use an online account.
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philb2 said:
I tried a clean install of Win 11, and gave up because I didn't have network connectivity. Exactly how was I supposed to have WiFi already installed on a clean (no drivers set up yet) install? :wtf:
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It could be worse... When I installed Debian 10 Linux on my workstation, the install media had drivers for my wireless but the installed media didn't. I never could get it to work reliably so I just hardwired the damn thing! :mad:
 
Algrim said:
It could be worse... When I installed Debian 10 Linux on my workstation, the install media had drivers for my wireless but the installed media didn't. I never could get it to work reliably so I just hardwired the damn thing! :mad:
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Which driver was it (or name of the device)? Did you have the "contrib" and "non-free" components in your repository list? Most wireless network drivers require firmware from the non-free section. See: https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware (Note the new repository component "non-free-firmware" that affects Debian 12 and later. Hopefully the upcoming changes result in smoother installations for users.)
 
Algrim said:
It could be worse... When I installed Debian 10 Linux on my workstation, the install media had drivers for my wireless but the installed media didn't. I never could get it to work reliably so I just hardwired the damn thing! :mad:
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Most drivers in Linux are a part of the kernel.

Usually this means that newer kernels tend to have more hardware compatibility. This is strange though, ad generally install media install the same kernel that is on the disk, or newer if they real.yime grab newer packages online during install. You had a strange problem I haven't run into before.

That said, wireless chipsets are one of the more finicky under Linux. Hardware vendors rarely provide any drivers for Linux, leaving the open source community to reverse engineer them which takes time and for less used chopsets often never is fully completed.

The problem is smaller in 2023 than it has ever been before (i haven't actually run into Wifi issues in years, but I am also not a prolific wifi user) but even today some hardware planning is appropriate to make sure you have compatible hardware before install rather than expecting it to run well on whatever you happen to have, especially on the wifi front.

I don't buy/use mobile stuff very often, but in my older thick Latitudes I usually just buy Intel Mini WLAN cards (like 7260's and the like) and ditch whatever is in there. The Intel chipsets are well supported.
 
ElementDave said:
Which driver was it (or name of the device)? Did you have the "contrib" and "non-free" components in your repository list? Most wireless network drivers require firmware from the non-free section. See: https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware (Note the new repository component "non-free-firmware" that affects Debian 12 and later. Hopefully the upcoming changes result in smoother installations for users.)
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Yes, I had both contrib and non-free repos installed. The wireless device was one of those Netgear USB attachments. I got it to work sporadically but didn’t have time to really troubleshoot it. It worked perfectly using Manjaro, which is what I intend to install on it again when I get the time.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Hardware vendors rarely provide any drivers for Linux, leaving the open source community to reverse engineer them which takes time and for less used chopsets often never is fully completed.
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This may have been the case 20+ years ago, but not today. A good chunk of hardware vendors provide Linux drivers these days, and have for at least a decade. As more and more devices run Linux, they're really forced to build Linux drivers, or they're going to lose market share.

Zarathustra[H] said:
The problem is smaller in 2023 than it has ever been before (i haven't actually run into Wifi issues in years, but I am also not a prolific wifi user)
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Wifi on Linux is still a huge headache to this day for a number of reasons.

The first big hurdle is picking your Linux distribution, because all of them handle proprietary closed source drivers differently. Some distros are absolute purist and don't want any non-free code in them, so you have to compile and build your own kernel driver modules. This can take hours/days/weeks, especially if you've never done it before. Then there are the ones that have the drivers available, but you have to generally go out of your way to add the non-free repos the drivers reside on and know what the package names are to install them. Then there's distros like Ubuntu that can do the driver hunting for you, and it works in most cases.

The next hurdle is hoping your wii adapter is actually supported. Wifi vendors have released an eye watering number of different models that are all slightly different. If you're unfortunate enough to have one of the ones not supported by a generic driver, be prepared for a bad time.

Then there's Broadcom. Broadcom has a rage hate boner for anything Linux related. Their driver support is so bad that even LAN adapters from them often lack driver support. I've encountered plenty of laptops and even desktops that had Broadcom LAN adapters that didn't work, and wouldn't work due to lack of available drivers. Really is a pain to have to resort to a USB dongle or a PCI/PCIe NIC because the onboard LAN adapter doesn't work.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
Then there's Broadcom. Broadcom has a rage hate boner for anything Linux related. Their driver support is so bad that even LAN adapters from them often lack driver support.
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Why? Doesn't Broadcom sell lots of products to enterprises?
 
philb2 said:
Why? Doesn't Broadcom sell lots of products to enterprises?
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I was about to say the same, but I suspect they treat their Enterprise lines very differently than their consumer linea.

I've had a few NetXtreme NIC's over the years all of which worked flawlessly in both Linux and BSD.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I was about to say the same, but I suspect they treat their Enterprise lines very differently than their consumer linea.

I've had a few NetXtreme NIC's over the years all of which worked flawlessly in both Linux and BSD.
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NetXtreme works because it has been around since Cain killed Abel. More modern LAN chips are a crapshoot. Example:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1273413/broadcom-bcm5720-not-working-in-ubuntu-20-04-server
https://unix.stackexchange.com/ques...adapter-14e443a0-appears-but-will-not-connect

Broadcom Ethernet chips require proprietary firmware just like their wifi chips do, and the driver support is just bad for the same reason Broadcom wifi stuff is a PITA.

Since the firmware and drivers are proprietary, they'll never be in the kernel, and will always be kernel driver modules.
 
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