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Windows 9: Microsoft Faces Four Daunting Challenges
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Nenu
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I wont even bother with the preview after the scam they pulled with Windows 8.
They have to earn trust back, right now they have none.
They have to earn trust back, right now they have none.
Ur_Mom
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It wasn't so much the change. It was the change that didn't fix anything and it was the "One UI to rule them all" approach. Many people LOVE the new UI on a tablet or phone. Those same people HATE it on the desktop. So, it's not just the change that got them.
The article has the first thing very right - consumer vs. business. I have said from day 1 that if Microsoft had put the option (via GPO or other) to remove Modern UI in the Pro and Enterprise versions, a lot more businesses would have gone with Windows 8. That's the big complaint. Most businesses use standard desktop or laptop's. Non touch devices. There were a lot of businesses wanting to upgrade from XP to a newer OS. When they saw Windows 8, they were rushing for Windows 7 licenses. That's not an enterprise OS. Not yet, anyway.
Y u no spel gud!
I suck at spelling, I don't deny it.
MH Knights
Gawd
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So long as I get the "Windows Classic" theme I will be happy. Otherwise no sale.
Because that's where a single app user experience belongs. On a small screen device such as a phone or tablet, I expect to be able to only run one app at a time. I understand this because of the inherent limitations of a device with a smaller screen.
This is because when a person (such as many of us here) look at a desktop we look at it as if it's a multitasking machine. For instance, I have (at this very moment) at the very least five different programs running that I actually interact with and multitask with.
We also have very capable machines. For instance, my machine. An Intel Core i5 3570k CPU, 16 GBs of RAM, and a kick-ass nVidia-based video card. If this machine was a person it would be able to seriously kick some major ass.
OK, so keep in mind this a fairly powerful machine and now you're asking me to only run one app at time on the screen. Wait... so why do I even have the hardware that I have in the machine if I'm going to be essentially limited to one app at a time? That's right, it doesn't make much sense at all.
A desktop, by it's very nature of the capable hardware in it, is a multitasking machine and ModernUI (as it is in Windows 8/8.1) is hindrance to being able to use said hardware to it's fullest. Windows 9, as we have seen so far, seems to be taking the ModernUI and blending it into the desktop experience so that you have a seamless blend of both ModernUI and the powerful multitasking capabilities of the traditional desktop. This alone will make Windows 9 a winner when compared to Windows 8/8.1.
Ashbringer
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None of that is even remotely close to Windows 9's problems.
Problem #1 Anti-Virus
You run Windows then you run Anti-Virus. It's so bad that sometimes the virus is better. Slows down the entire PC, annoys you about buying crap you don't want, and now they block websites you visit cause they think it's bad. This isn't needed for Mac and Linux. Don't care what the reason is, they don't need it.
Problem #2 Updates
Part of Windows security problems is updating software and drivers. Now I know Windows update does supply drivers but usually outdated and incomplete. Why can't I plug in a graphics card and get the latest AMD or Nvidia driver package complete with OpenGL? How about when I plug in a HP printer that I get HP's driver package? I would also like Windows update to handle Java, Flash, and whatever the hell I installed on my machine. Linux does this without issue. Speaking of which.
Problem #3 Linux
Too damn little too damn late. Yeah yeah, Linux is like 1% of users blah blah blah. Thanks to Valve's push on Linux, it's getting needed attention. It's a perfect working OS now, but it needs software. OpenGL-Next will essentially be Mantle. It's getting DX9. You won't have much of a reason not to use it soon.
Problem #1 Anti-Virus
You run Windows then you run Anti-Virus. It's so bad that sometimes the virus is better. Slows down the entire PC, annoys you about buying crap you don't want, and now they block websites you visit cause they think it's bad. This isn't needed for Mac and Linux. Don't care what the reason is, they don't need it.
Problem #2 Updates
Part of Windows security problems is updating software and drivers. Now I know Windows update does supply drivers but usually outdated and incomplete. Why can't I plug in a graphics card and get the latest AMD or Nvidia driver package complete with OpenGL? How about when I plug in a HP printer that I get HP's driver package? I would also like Windows update to handle Java, Flash, and whatever the hell I installed on my machine. Linux does this without issue. Speaking of which.
Problem #3 Linux
Too damn little too damn late. Yeah yeah, Linux is like 1% of users blah blah blah. Thanks to Valve's push on Linux, it's getting needed attention. It's a perfect working OS now, but it needs software. OpenGL-Next will essentially be Mantle. It's getting DX9. You won't have much of a reason not to use it soon.
Soarin
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Until AAA title games are made for Linux as well then yes a lot of people will have reason to not use it as the main OS.
They should call it Windows 7 SP2. No point continuing forward when going in the wrong direction.
Testing updates before release would be nice too. That 0.01% of computers dying is BS. I had two computers out of nine have serious problems with the August update.
Testing updates before release would be nice too. That 0.01% of computers dying is BS. I had two computers out of nine have serious problems with the August update.
Unknown-One
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Well, that can be solved by enabling signature enforcement.
That means all released software will need to have a valid signature in order to run. You can see an example of this behavior on Windows RT (where only Microsoft's digital signature is trusted).
No viruses there, at all.
Windows automatically pulls down fairly recent drivers from Windows Update. I'm not really seeing the problem here...
Ashbringer
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Fairly decent? Like videos drivers with OpenGL decent? It doesn't even come with the manufacturers packaging.
Windows update needs to change in windows 9. Updates shouldn't be installed when you shutdown. No one like waiting around for 3 hours for their computers to restart with over 300 updates. Some computers stay on over 6 hours installing updates all day before shutting down. These updates need to happen when using the OS. When restarting/shutting down upon rebooting these updates could be activated. Overall the updates should be install during when the windows is being used mainly to avoid the pain of waiting hours for the OS shutdown/restart. Hope its fixed.
Ur_Mom
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Exactly. Some people will say that the desktop acts exactly the same as it did before and allows this. If that is true, why use the Start Screen? It has little use as an app launcher. You're going to find ways to bypass it (desktop shortcuts, jumplists, etc..) rather than use it. It's usable, but in the multitasking environment, you're still clicking Start to hide all your other applications to view the single Start Screen, then back to the desktop. A non-full screen start menu would be best in that situation.
I think that was Microsoft's fatal flaw with Windows 8. The desktop use of the Start Screen. Windows 8 is not a bad OS at all. Other than the one off issues that people have, not too many people complain about the OS itself. Start Screen is where the issues lie.
That's why I hope (really, really hope!) that Microsoft fixes that with Windows 9. I have a strong feeling they will...
Drivers from Windows update SUCK period. The only time they should every be used is when the mfg of the hardware doesn't supply a driver that works with the specific OS it is being used on.
I have personally seen drivers from Windows update completely trash a system so bad that it would not even boot into safe mode. Not just once.. but multiple times.
The worst offenders are video, sound, and printer drivers.
And to top it off, the drivers that MS provides are generally pretty old and are missing most of what a driver package from the mfg includes.
You can digitally sign software fairly easily. That would do nothing to stop viruses made by a person who knows what they are doing.
Also, what happens when a person needs to test software they are developing? They are just going to what??? Sign it every 5 minutes?
I have personally seen drivers from Windows update completely trash a system so bad that it would not even boot into safe mode. Not just once.. but multiple times.
The worst offenders are video, sound, and printer drivers.
And to top it off, the drivers that MS provides are generally pretty old and are missing most of what a driver package from the mfg includes.
Stupid no edit button
Pieter3dnow
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It is so nice to be vague about new features. But what is most important don't mention them that means when you are lacking knowledge you can nod your head and even agree that it makes sense. Ed Bott at his best.
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Now everyone is waiting for this since desktop is important but no one wants it in an old package with old tools, no there must be new tools , everyone in whole world has been screaming loudly since windows 8 "it is the management tools stupid" .
It is so nice of MS to acknowledge that they know what we want with windows 8 we wanted an akward UI and now with Windows 9 we want no more UI stuffbut we want management tools. Yes management tools, Ed WTF have you been smoking?
If 9 has the interface of 7 but the kernel/core of 8 I think most will be happy.
If MS included an actual good AV like Avast that would be excellent but most likely would run into legal troubles like they did with IE if it were included.
Updates could be more often and install silently for critical updates, drivers etc set to manual per user choice.
If MS included an actual good AV like Avast that would be excellent but most likely would run into legal troubles like they did with IE if it were included.
Updates could be more often and install silently for critical updates, drivers etc set to manual per user choice.
There was no scam. It has been the same since the first preview.
You are acting like you could ONLY use metro. If you wan to run more programs then use desktop mode. I have never been limited to a single program every and I have been using windows 8 since the first tech preview as my main OS at home and at work.
Security Essentials wasn't bad. wasn't being the key word. they just need to beef that back up some. I think some of their issue is trying to not make it too good otherwise there will be lawsuits against them. Just like what you stated with Avast or something like that if they tried to include it. Best version of windows would come with full AV software, copy of Microsoft Office Starter edition installed, and be at its current cost. However as soon as that would happen they would be getting rapped in court.
updates already are checked on a regular basis in the background and install without you really even knowing they install until you get the your computer needs to reboot in the next 48 hours message. You can already setup important updates to be automatic and recommended (drivers and such) to be manual. So that really is already there. Only thing that doesn't happen is some type of ninja reboot where you don't know it has restarted. Which they tried to introduce that back in I think Vista, unless it was 7. The trouble is that programs need to be wrote to know how to save their state and reload back to where they were, and most programs were never coded that way. So the feature never worked and went away.
Nenu
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Your opinion is ok for you if you choose to ignore important aspects that matter to others.
Loss of Aero and the full start button are very annoying.
Having to use charms made it really crap.
The preview versions are not an accurate reflection of what we got in usability terms.
I wont trust what we are going to get until I see the final version.
So now, anything before that has much less significance than it should.
Thats what you get for screwing your customers.
Darth Millennial
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Why do people still read ZDNet? Haven't they burnt every bridge they ever built with useless tripe and shit reviews?
rudy
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This is really a problem and is not true. Companies just don't update MS drivers. I actually disable MS driver installation because in the past way to many times MS automatic driver updates have screwed up a system by applying a driver that doesn't work or is out of date.
The irony of it all is that MS certification to try to vet out stable drivers is suppose to make sure problems do not happen. But instead all it does is slow down driver uploads from companies and on top of that MS will apply wrong or old drivers to a system that has a newer driver already installed.
carlbme
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Wasn't a fan of Windows 8. However, Windows 8.1 I love it. I've migrated all of my desktops in the house to it. My work desktops, and even managed to move about half of our company over to it with 0 complaints. I'm a big fan of how they've handled the multi-monitor in this release.
I don't use any metro apps but I love the Start screen and how customizable it is. Between that, Win+S, and the right click context menu of the Start button...I'm a happy camper.
I don't use any metro apps but I love the Start screen and how customizable it is. Between that, Win+S, and the right click context menu of the Start button...I'm a happy camper.
That still doesn't equal scam. They changed the system from windows 7 to windows 8. Yes.
I fail to see why they were not a valid reflection as no features were removed between the dev preview version and the RTM version. There was always charms, there was always a start screen, there was never a start menu, there was always Metro apps.
Do you like Windows 8, it is obvious you don't. Does that mean that you were lied to at any point about what it would be like? No it does not.
Ashbringer
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Digitally signed drivers has done nothing but cause problems.
And a perfect opportunity for Microsoft to block or Tax 3rd party software.
Unknown-One
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This is 100% untrue.
First off, there's a version-check in place. Windows will not install a older driver from Windows Update over a newer one that's already on the system (it wont even show the driver as an available update).
Second, driver updates are listed under "optional" for hardware that already has a driver installed. This means that the driver WILL NOT auto-install. The user has to go into Windows Update and check-box it.
Unknown-One
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Hey, they guy I was responding to wanted to make viruses a non-issue. That, right there, does it.
cdr_74_premium
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Windows 8 already does this. It installs updates after a reboot, and will only force updates on shutdown after 3 days.
heatlesssun
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Part of the reason why Windows 8.x has faced many of the issue that it has is opinions like this which are factually faulty. You don't have to run modern apps, desktop multitasking on 8.1 is essentially the same as 7 and modern apps can also be split on a screen with up to four modern apps depending on screen resolution including splitting the desktop.
Nenu
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Its a bait and switch.
They got people to report very positive reviews of the preview and beta and gave us a very positive expectation.
Then the final product was very different.
ps
Charms were there before, but you werent dependent on them, the old methods of using Windows were still present.
heatlesssun
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The only significant difference I can recall was the removal of the Start Menu and there was no bait and switch about that. Microsoft was very clear from the beginning that the Start Menu was going away in the finalized version of 8.