Windows 8 start menu has become cluttered?

[B00nie]

It would still be in All Apps, Your Apps in the Windows Store or Programs in the Control Panel.

All apps is hidden behind a click, this means most users will never even know it's there. I didn't untill I started looking for it. You won't be able to find anything from 'all apps' after a year or two, it's going to be several screen lengths long with no possibility to collapse groups for easyer browsing.

So the beginner level UI has everything out of sight? Sounds like the superuser UI. And the Start Menu, nothing really superuser about a static list of icons and links that's 20 years old.

I don't know about your world but in my universe the beginner UI contains a minimum amount of functions the beginner uses and admin UI contains the power user tools the beginner isn't supposed to even accidentally use. Perhaps you live in an another kind of universe

Now we have the displeasure of being treated along the lowest common denominator, a beginner user Mom at 50+ years who doesn't understand the concept of desktop and requested to be able to open Facebook from the 'start'. You know the 'start' when the computer turns in and you want to open internet. When asked to which browser would she want that link? Not to any browser, to the Internet - LOL!

I've had this discussion almost word to word with an elder beginner and Win8 UI is tailor made for this kind of users. Unfortunately it's a big mess for the rest.

 

[devil22]

Good point B00nie, except it's completely wrong. For instance, I don't fit into that group, I doubt the other Win 8 advocates here do etc. All we have is your speculation that noob users like it and everyone else hates it. Of course you put us in a position of having to say we're not noobs, and most rational people don't like to do that because there's always someone who knows more.

All Apps being hidden shouldn't amount to much, it will be one of the basic functions that everyone knows after time. For instance, the start menu in Win 7 did not have 'start' written on it, somehow users managed to open it and use it, imagine that. Also you say noob users like it, but can't figure it out, and for everyone else it's a mess. You can't even get your over general fallacies right.

 

[B00nie]

Good point B00nie, except it's completely wrong. For instance, I don't fit into that group, I doubt the other Win 8 advocates here do etc. All we have is your speculation that noob users like it and everyone else hates it. Of course you put us in a position of having to say we're not noobs, and most rational people don't like to do that because there's always someone who knows more.

All Apps being hidden shouldn't amount to much, it will be one of the basic functions that everyone knows after time. For instance, the start menu in Win 7 did not have 'start' written on it, somehow users managed to open it and use it, imagine that. Also you say noob users like it, but can't figure it out, and for everyone else it's a mess. You can't even get your over general fallacies right.

You're confused clearly. The start menu in W7 was VISIBLE. The typical user will not find the 'all apps' menu from right click and even if they accidentally activate it they won't understand what it's for. The same goes for the lower left corner menu (which in itself is good). I have extensive experience on doing customer support to business users from all scopes of activities.

Windows 8 interface also has one huge issue that is completely overlooked by the crowd who compare 'click counts' on UI. With W8 the options are located to the bottom of the screen instead of having a menu pinned to the cursor location! This means a huge mouse move downwards in order to perform unpinning etc. So while the click count is the same (or even worse as it is in many places with W8), time used and effort required is multiplied.

 

[devil22]

You're confused clearly. The start menu in W7 was VISIBLE. The typical user will not find the 'all apps' menu from right click and even if they accidentally activate it they won't understand what it's for. The same goes for the lower left corner menu (which in itself is good). I have extensive experience on doing customer support to business users from all scopes of activities.

Visible is one way of looking at. Cluttering the interface is another. You simply wear your bias like some kind of badge of honor, hope that works out well for you. For users to need 'All Apps' they need to unpin their programs, so they probably don't need them any way (uninstallers are in programs and features as always), you can also get to them by typing to search, and from the charms bar. This is not hard to figure out, as OEM PCs should come with tutorials and manuals explaining such things, and upgraders are probably educated enough to find the information in google in 2 seconds. You are not the only one who has experience dealing with users, but apparently it does not seem enough to make you understand all the dynamics at play in the OS market, any way.

Windows 8 interface also has one huge issue that is completely overlooked by the crowd who compare 'click counts' on UI. With W8 the options are located to the bottom of the screen instead of having a menu pinned to the cursor location! This means a huge mouse move downwards in order to perform unpinning etc. So while the click count is the same (or even worse as it is in many places with W8), time used and effort required is multiplied.

Multiplying a very small number by another small number doesn't amount to much. Unpinning an App by moving across the screen one time, vs. doubling your click count every time you launch an App is really no contest, and though you'll resists the plain truth for the rest of your life apparently you can't change that.

 

[B00nie]

Visible is one way of looking at. Cluttering the interface is another. You simply wear your bias like some kind of badge of honor, hope that works out well for you. For users to need 'All Apps' they need to unpin their programs, so they probably don't need them any way (uninstallers are in programs and features as always), you can also get to them by typing to search, and from the charms bar. This is not hard to figure out, as OEM PCs should come with tutorials and manuals explaining such things, and upgraders are probably educated enough to find the information in google in 2 seconds. You are not the only one who has experience dealing with users, but apparently it does not seem enough to make you understand all the dynamics at play in the OS market, any way.

It's obvious that you really have no experience with day-to-day end users and their negative reactions to any changes to UIs The users are going to get the charms bar pop out in different occasions where they won't want or need it. And they're going to curse out loud several times per day. Then they're going to send the IT department to hell for giving them this kind of junk. I've seen it happen so many times already.

The funniest is when I sometimes have to loan my OSX laptop to users on trainings. They get all excited how fancy and fast it is but start to curse when they accidentally trigger hot corners

Multiplying a very small number by another small number doesn't amount to much. Unpinning an App by moving across the screen one time, vs. doubling your click count every time you launch an App is really no contest, and though you'll resists the plain truth for the rest of your life apparently you can't change that.

Please could you do me a favor of at least getting your facts right. In previous versions you could launch apps with the same amount of clicks as now without the added trouble of all what is Modern UI.

 

[devil22]

It's obvious that you really have no experience with day-to-day end users and their negative reactions to any changes to UIs The users are going to get the charms bar pop out in different occasions where they won't want or need it. And they're going to curse out loud several times per day. Then they're going to send the IT department to hell for giving them this kind of junk. I've seen it happen so many times already.

The funniest is when I sometimes have to loan my OSX laptop to users on trainings. They get all excited how fancy and fast it is but start to curse when they accidentally trigger hot corners

Your user experience means nothing. People like new things if they are better, like Windows 95, or do you not remember the lines to get it? I just can't fathom how so many people make this fallacy.

Please could you do me a favor of at least getting your facts right. In previous versions you could launch apps with the same amount of clicks as now without the added trouble of all what is Modern UI.

I have my facts right, why don't you follow your own advice? I launch ALL my apps in two clicks on Win 8. In Win 7, it takes 4, unless they are pinned but only 10 can be pinned, and the rest go in the start menu folders which takes, again, 4. Not that you are going to man up to being wrong after you had the gall to say I don't have my facts right.

 

[B00nie]

Your user experience means nothing. People like new things if they are better, like Windows 95, or do you not remember the lines to get it? I just can't fathom how so many people make this fallacy.

People like new better things if they are easyer to use, true. But most people seem to think Win8 UI is not better. And people who have been used to use the same kind of interface for 10+ years hate the change.

I have my facts right, why don't you follow your own advice? I launch ALL my apps in two clicks on Win 8. In Win 7, it takes 4, unless they are pinned but only 10 can be pinned, and the rest go in the start menu folders which takes, again, 4. Not that you are going to man up to being wrong after you had the gall to say I don't have my facts right.

You won't launch ALL your applications on W8 with 1 click, only the first one of the ones that fit in your desktop. The second app you're going to launch already requires 2 clicks and a large mouse movement to the corner as you'll first need to activate the start menu and then launch the app because unless you were using a Metro app you're going to have to leave the desktop first in order to play the lego game. Fact. After some time you're also going to have to scroll around looking for them unless you clean up and maintain your start menu constantly. Fact.

On XP/Vista/W7 you can set up any desired amounts of icons to the desktop and activate 1 click - and the desktop is the default view. Fact. Prior to Vista you could place a large amount of shortcuts to the task bar which by default started with 1 click. Fact.

Vista/7 with it's 'pinning' and artificial UI limitations already were a step backwards in usability. Fact.

Man up being wrong and stop trying to make up excuses.

 

[devil22]

People like new better things if they are easyer to use, true. But most people seem to think Win8 UI is not better. And people who have been used to use the same kind of interface for 10+ years hate the change.



You won't launch ALL your applications on W8 with 1 click, only the first one of the ones that fit in your desktop. The second app you're going to launch already requires 2 clicks and a large mouse movement to the corner as you'll first need to activate the start menu and then launch the app because unless you were using a Metro app you're going to have to leave the desktop first in order to play the lego game. Fact. After some time you're also going to have to scroll around looking for them unless you clean up and maintain your start menu constantly. Fact.

On XP/Vista/W7 you can set up any desired amounts of icons to the desktop and activate 1 click - and the desktop is the default view. Fact. Prior to Vista you could place a large amount of shortcuts to the task bar which by default started with 1 click. Fact.

Vista/7 with it's 'pinning' and artificial UI limitations already were a step backwards in usability. Fact.

Man up being wrong and stop trying to make up excuses.

The only fact is that Win 8 haters can not compare the start screen to the start menu, which is what it replaced, because the start menu is obviously not any good. fact. no wait, double fact. infinity fact. whatever. I said I can open all my Apps in 2 clicks, this is also a fact, because I don't have now, nor have I ever had in the past, nor will I ever have in the future, in my estimation, more than 60 apps which is what fits on the start screen. People who used DOS for 10 years, happily moved to Windows 95, I should know, I was one of them. You also have to move the mouse all the way to the bottom left to open the start menu, so that was another daft point. This isn't particle physics, yet you get the most basic of things wrong constantly. I'll man up about being wrong and stop making excuses, when the time comes that I am actually wrong and making excuses, trying to apply that to situations that don't fit it makes about as much sense as your usual ramblings.

 

[ManofGod]

The only fact is that Win 8 haters can not compare the start screen to the start menu, which is what it replaced, because the start menu is obviously not any good. fact. no wait, double fact. infinity fact. whatever. I said I can open all my Apps in 2 clicks, this is also a fact, because I don't have now, nor have I ever had in the past, nor will I ever have in the future, in my estimation, more than 60 apps which is what fits on the start screen. People who used DOS for 10 years, happily moved to Windows 95, I should know, I was one of them. You also have to move the mouse all the way to the bottom left to open the start menu, so that was another daft point. This isn't particle physics, yet you get the most basic of things wrong constantly. I'll man up about being wrong and stop making excuses, when the time comes that I am actually wrong and making excuses, trying to apply that to situations that don't fit it makes about as much sense as your usual ramblings.

I have placed Boonie on ignore but I can still see his comments in quotes. I could not help but laugh everytime he said .fact.