Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

[yossarian]

At the price it is, I would hope so. ROFL
Now if it was the same price as win 7, how many would of sold?

I am glad that they dropped the price though.

After using Win8 in a VM for several months, I decided this would be the first version of Windows I won't buy...at least until things worked out. Then the $38.88 deal from Amazon popped up opening day and I bought it, and then I found out about the $15 download since I bought a laptop for my daughter last Summer, and I ended up with two copies solely because of the price.

Now, I didn't want to install it until things worked out, but I can only get Media Center for free if I install and validate before January. So I'll probably install the download on one of my extra drives in my PC just to get it, and maybe play with it a little outside of the VM environment.

So, for me, it was all about the cost incentives. But that still counts as a victory to the MS marketing department whether I actually use it or not.

 

[Tsumi]

After using Win8 in a VM for several months, I decided this would be the first version of Windows I won't buy...at least until things worked out. Then the $38.88 deal from Amazon popped up opening day and I bought it, and then I found out about the $15 download since I bought a laptop for my daughter last Summer, and I ended up with two copies solely because of the price.

Now, I didn't want to install it until things worked out, but I can only get Media Center for free if I install and validate before January. So I'll probably install the download on one of my extra drives in my PC just to get it, and maybe play with it a little outside of the VM environment.

So, for me, it was all about the cost incentives. But that still counts as a victory to the MS marketing department whether I actually use it or not.

Actually, I don't think you need to activate the code right away. You just need to get a code before the offer expires, and it'll activate.

 

[yossarian]

Actually, I don't think you need to activate the code right away. You just need to get a code before the offer expires, and it'll activate.

Not sure that's the case. Here's a line hidden in the small print of the MC Key email:

This promotion ends on January 31, 2013; your product key must be activated no later than February 1, 2013.

 

[Deadjasper]

Guess if you ever have to do a reinstall, you're screwed.

 

[ThreeDee]

Guess if you ever have to do a reinstall, you're screwed.

I think all you might have to do is make a phone call

 

[odditory]

So, now we have a numbers out - 40 million W8 licences in first month : [/url]

W7 had 150 million in 9 months. I would say W8 is selling pretty well.

Yarite and "The surge is working". First rule of stats and analytics: beware of big round numbers, they're usually bullshit. I'd be real curious to know exactly how that supposed 40mil broken down because its just not in-line with the situation "on the ground", in all the ghost town MS stores, etc.

> Is that activations or just shipped copies?
> Does that include all Surface tablets? And again, activations or shipments?
> Does that include all the Surface tablets given to every MS employee - since thats apparently most of them.
> Does that include all Windows Phone 8 devices? And activations or just shipped?

Dollars to donuts there's some creating accounting going on here, heavy on the fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not that they're alone in this practice, Apple and everyone else do it equally as often if not more so, but call me extremely skeptical. And in fairness MS is fighting a perception war more than anything now post-release, and general consensus is not favorable (I realize the one or two kool-aid drinkers that troll every thread here about Win8 and Metro being the second coming would disagree), so inflated numbers are well within their right since its probably the only defense for now while they work out a post-Sinofsky strategy. But my B.S. detector wouldn't have gone off quite so strong if the announcement wasn't neatly wrapped with additional claims about the App Store growing so steadily.

Full disclosure: I absolutely love Windows8 for everything but Metro which doesn't get a second of my time, love Server 2012, not going back to earlier versions of either, Apple products are not allowed in my house, and still there's an overwhelming sense of bullshit/PR spin in this announcement.

 

[faugusztin]

> Is that activations or just shipped copies?

Pretty sure shipped. It is sales that is important for MS, not activations.

> Does that include all Surface tablets? And again, activations or shipments?

All ? You mean the only model available with different flash size ? And again, shipments.

> Does that include all the Surface tablets given to every MS employee - since thats apparently most of them.

Considering MS has 94k employees, that doesn't change much on the situation.

> Does that include all Windows Phone 8 devices? And activations or just shipped?

Windows Phone 8 is not Windows 8.

 

[ManofGod]

Yarite and "The surge is working". First rule of stats and analytics: beware of big round numbers, they're usually bullshit. I'd be real curious to know exactly how that supposed 40mil broken down because its just not in-line with the situation "on the ground", in all the ghost town MS stores, etc.

> Is that activations or just shipped copies?
> Does that include all Surface tablets? And again, activations or shipments?
> Does that include all the Surface tablets given to every MS employee - since thats apparently most of them.
> Does that include all Windows Phone 8 devices? And activations or just shipped?

Dollars to donuts there's some creating accounting going on here, heavy on the fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not that they're alone in this practice, Apple and everyone else do it equally as often if not more so, but call me extremely skeptical. And in fairness MS is fighting a perception war more than anything now post-release, and general consensus is not favorable (I realize the one or two kool-aid drinkers that troll every thread here about Win8 and Metro being the second coming would disagree), so inflated numbers are well within their right since its probably the only defense for now while they work out a post-Sinofsky strategy. But my B.S. detector wouldn't have gone off quite so strong if the announcement wasn't neatly wrapped with additional claims about the App Store growing so steadily.

Full disclosure: I absolutely love Windows8 for everything but Metro which doesn't get a second of my time, love Server 2012, not going back to earlier versions of either, Apple products are not allowed in my house, and still there's an overwhelming sense of bullshit/PR spin in this announcement.

Also, the Windows RT surface tablet is not Windows 8 either.

 

[odditory]

The 40mil number is still fantasyland however MS or their zealots want to rationalize it, as Microsoft is trying to imply that 40 million people are using Windows 8 and that's just not reality. Shipped licenses doesn't mean in-use licenses, let alone sold licenses. Thats just channel stuffing. Licenses generated for PC's already manufactured but not yet sold, licenses built into enterprise licensing agreements - a program for large corps to get every piece of MS software for a flat fee whether they want it or not (this was around 250k annually at my previous co.) The list goes on.

The proof is in the pudding, third party net analytics firms that have tracked browser and o/s ID strings for years show Win8 at around 1% of overall browsing activity where Win7 was closer to 4% after it had been out for the same period.

My original point still stands, beware of big round numbers, they're usually bullshit.

 

[heatlesssun]

The 40mil number is still fantasyland however MS or their zealots want to rationalize it, as Microsoft is trying to imply that 40 million people are using Windows 8 and that's just not reality.

Please point to where Microsoft has ever reported Windows sales differently than they have here. They've always reported the number as license sold directly to customers and OEMs, just like the did with 7. This is the transaction on which Microsoft gets paid, not on activations, so from a financial accounting standpoint activations aren't the important factor here.

Of course as time progresses people are going to continue to look at the licenses sold number and web traffic and reporting from income from the Windows Store, but it's still too early to account for that. Even if web traffic percentages are lower there are more PCs and more devices connecting to the net than ever before and yes, Windows 7 does look to have been adopted faster earlier than Windows 7 but that's not a surprise as more people upgraded existing hardware earlier and a big part of Windows 8 is NEW hardware form factors and very little of that has arrived.

This is a good start for Windows 8 from a financial standpoint. Long way to go and this isn't an indication of success at this point, but it certainly would be hard to say that we're looking at a failure in Windows 8 looking at just these numbers. We still have a lot of the Christmas holiday shopping period left and a lot more to go from there. The next major number for Windows 8 will be in late-January when Microsoft reports the first quarter of Windows 8's GA, if the Windows 8 license count hits 70+ million then Microsoft should be well on its way to have a pretty successful, if controversial, Windows 8 release.

We should also know more about the rumored Blue release and the supposed annual Windows release cadence. That could prove to be another boost to Windows on the consumer as Microsoft quickens the pace of updates and new features which has become the norm with phones and tablets and people always wanting more new stuff.

 

[MrCrispy]

If the 40m includes licenses bought by oem's and retailers, its reasonable to expect they factored in expected sales of pc's/windows for the holiday season, and thus that number won't go up a lot. Does that number included licenses generated on MSDN/TechNet? I would expect not since MS doesn't get paid for those.

 

[Hagrid]

The 40mil number is still fantasyland however MS or their zealots want to rationalize it, as Microsoft is trying to imply that 40 million people are using Windows 8 and that's just not reality. Shipped licenses doesn't mean in-use licenses, let alone sold licenses. Thats just channel stuffing. Licenses generated for PC's already manufactured but not yet sold, licenses built into enterprise licensing agreements - a program for large corps to get every piece of MS software for a flat fee whether they want it or not (this was around 250k annually at my previous co.) The list goes on.

The proof is in the pudding, third party net analytics firms that have tracked browser and o/s ID strings for years show Win8 at around 1% of overall browsing activity where Win7 was closer to 4% after it had been out for the same period.

My original point still stands, beware of big round numbers, they're usually bullshit.

You do have to factor how many of the win 8 copies have the 3rd party apps added.
I know some win 8 fanatics will say it makes no difference, but that would be their opinion.

 

[heatlesssun]

You do have to factor how many of the win 8 copies have the 3rd party apps added.
I know some win 8 fanatics will say it makes no difference, but that would be their opinion.

If you mean 3rd part Start Menu replacements then please explain how that impacts the these numbers? Don't forget the fanatics on the other side that will only accept the cataclysmic failure of Windows 8 even if does sell well.

 

[Hagrid]

If you mean 3rd part Start Menu replacements then please explain how that impacts the these numbers? Don't forget the fanatics on the other side that will only accept the cataclysmic failure of Windows 8 even if does sell well.

Yeah, there are some on both sides.

It makes a difference because what if there were no 3rd party apps that could fix it the way they want(more or less), because MS totally took it all out. Now how many of the people would of bought it out of those? I have no idea.

What if MS had given the choice to install it regular desktop or the hybrid style? How many more would of bought it?

 

[Tsumi]

Yeah, there are some on both sides.

It makes a difference because what if there were no 3rd party apps that could fix it the way they want(more or less), because MS totally took it all out. Now how many of the people would of bought it out of those? I have no idea.

What if MS had given the choice to install it regular desktop or the hybrid style? How many more would of bought it?

By that reasoning, users using GUI modifiers for Linux or Windows 7 aren't eligible to be counted as Windows 7 or Linux users either, right? All those different versions of Linux (liek Unity) shouldn't count, because it doesn't use the stock Linux interface, right? Also, CyanogenMod users are not using Android, HTC Sense users are not using Android, etc.

Microsoft has never locked out third party customization, using that argument is pointless. The only thing they did different with Windows 8 was not include a "Classic View" option. And it won't make any significant difference because most sales are through OEM anyways, where they don't have a choice on what Windows version to buy (as soon as all Windows 7 PCs are sold out). Sure, there may be a few holdouts, but when someone needs a computer, they're going to buy the computer. If they include the option to make it run like Windows 7, it's not going to attract a significant number of sales, because where's the point in upgrading to the exact same thing?

The breaking of the third party GUI with future updates is mostly a crap argument as well. A proper developer will stay on top of updates and properly update their product as well, especially a paid for product like Start8. Even if it's broken, it should be fixed within a reasonable amount of time.

If anything, this is good for people that offer third party customization features, like Rainmeter. There's more people looking for alternatives, and they will hear of alternative UIs that don't really get noticed otherwise.

 

[heatlesssun]

What if MS had given the choice to install it regular desktop or the hybrid style? How many more would of bought it?

Probably not that many more, not long term especially. The vast majority of Windows sales come with new hardware, businesses were never going to go to Windows 8 at this point no matter what and as time goes on and there are more and more tablets and touch devices fewer people are going to want the old UI because of it's complete inferiority to support touch and hybrid devices compared to Metro.

 

[Hagrid]

Probably not that many more, not long term especially. The vast majority of Windows sales come with new hardware, businesses were never going to go to Windows 8 at this point no matter what and as time goes on and there are more and more tablets and touch devices fewer people are going to want the old UI because of it's complete inferiority to support touch and hybrid devices compared to Metro.

I guess we will never know how many, it could of been enough to even make MS internally happy, or not. I think giving options is the best way to sell a product though.

 

[heatlesssun]

I guess we will never know how many, it could of been enough to even make MS internally happy, or not. I think giving options is the best way to sell a product though.

Well the rumor going around about Microsoft's internal projections had to do with PC hardware, I'm not really sure how having the same old UI and the same type of device that a lot of people already have, a desktop or laptop, would have driven Windows 8 sales.

I'm not against choice, the Start Menu and old UI would be a choice of the familiar in an IT world that's far different than when these things were originally designed. There's just too many other options out there these days for Windows to have much growth and consumer interest to remain in the world of the familiar.

 

[Hagrid]

Well the rumor going around about Microsoft's internal projections had to do with PC hardware, I'm not really sure how having the same old UI and the same type of device that a lot of people already have, a desktop or laptop, would have driven Windows 8 sales.

I'm not against choice, the Start Menu and old UI would be a choice of the familiar in an IT world that's far different than when these things were originally designed. There's just too many other options out there these days for Windows to have much growth and consumer interest to remain in the world of the familiar.

Which is why you have a desk/laptop OS and a tablet.

 

[Tsumi]

Which is why you have a desk/laptop OS and a tablet.

Which would bring nothing new or innovative to the market.

I actually got the chance to play with a convertible touchscreen laptop this past weekend. It was a unique and fun experience, and a touchscreen first/keyboard and mouse second interface is a much better compromise than keyboard and mouse first interface with minimal touchscreen support.

 

[Hagrid]

Which would bring nothing new or innovative to the market.

I actually got the chance to play with a convertible touchscreen laptop this past weekend. It was a unique and fun experience, and a touchscreen first/keyboard and mouse second interface is a much better compromise than keyboard and mouse first interface with minimal touchscreen support.

I dont care what it is, as long as I dont have to touch the screen.

It would be new to both, since MS doesnt make a PC/laptop or tablet OS, but a hybrid.

 

[heatlesssun]

Which is why you have a desk/laptop OS and a tablet.

For how long though? Tablets are getting more and more powerful all the time. This new generation of Atom Clover Trail Windows 8 devices I think can serve the needs of plenty of people that just need a desktop for basic things like office automation, business apps and web browsing, and they can even multitask using external monitors.

 

[heatlesssun]

I dont care what it is, as long as I dont have to touch the screen.

And you don't with Windows 8. But you do have the option of using touch and touch applications and that's why I think Windows 8 and it's sucessors should do well, you really can have both experiences and even though Windows 8 has rough edges, desktop apps in Windows 8 work just like Windows 7 when launched. Angry Birds works with touch just like it does on an iPad once launched. Well, except with Windows 8 you can even use a mouse.

 

[Hagrid]

For how long though? Tablets are getting more and more powerful all the time. This new generation of Atom Clover Trail Windows 8 devices I think can serve the needs of plenty of people that just need a desktop for basic things like office automation, business apps and web browsing, and they can even multitask using external monitors.

I would rather have a laptop since they are getting more powerful to the point of being able to play alot of the games normally on a desktop. I dont see the point to an expensive tablet since the screens are too small and not enough power. They are good for normal stuff like you said but still not good enough. But if you get a bigger tablet and more power, it just becomes a laptop. I do like the Surface due to the not having to touch the screen keyboard/pointer. I wish my tablet had one of those!

The tablet is stuck in the middle and really should have its own OS. I dont see the reason to bloat an OS on a laptop/desktop just because it has to support a tablet. I just see a tablet as a novelty item that can do small tasks, and even if it was more powerful then my PC, I still wouldnt use it for gaming. Yes you can hook it up to a bigger monitor, but the laptop already has one and can hook up to a 2nd.

 

[heatlesssun]

I would rather have a laptop since they are getting more powerful to the point of being able to play alot of the games normally on a desktop. I dont see the point to an expensive tablet since the screens are too small and not enough power. They are good for normal stuff like you said but still not good enough. But if you get a bigger tablet and more power, it just becomes a laptop. I do like the Surface due to the not having to touch the screen keyboard/pointer. I wish my tablet had one of those!

I never said that a tablet served every ones needs but most of the people I know with laptops are using them for exactly the tasks I've mentioned. Office automation, email, web browsing, media playback and other common activities. Very few people in comparison do heavy PC gaming on them. As for screen size, I could see a 10.1" screen being too small for but 11.6" is pretty decent. That size does make the Ativ a bit wide for a tablet but it's perfect for digital ink which is something I use it a lot for.

The tablet is stuck in the middle and really should have its own OS. I dont see the reason to bloat an OS on a laptop/desktop just because it has to support a tablet.

Not sure how Windows 8 is any more bloated than 7.

 

[B00nie]

Pretty sure shipped. It is sales that is important for MS, not activations.

Important for stat padding you mean. So OEM manufacturers and retailers buy lumps of licenses which will rot in their warehouse for ages, MS declares high sales numbers.

At the same time no consumer necessarily bought a single license.

 

[faugusztin]

Important for stat padding you mean. So OEM manufacturers and retailers buy lumps of licenses which will rot in their warehouse for ages, MS declares high sales numbers.

At the same time no consumer necessarily bought a single license.

And ? It is exactly the same way sales were reported with Windows 7, Vista, XP, 2000,...

 

[Tsumi]

And ? It is exactly the same way sales were reported with Windows 7, Vista, XP, 2000,...

Exactly, which is why the only way to tell how well an OS is selling is to wait at least a few months, if not a year.

Not to mention most businesses will not be upgrading to Windows 8, and many of them are still in the middle of upgrading to Windows 7 from XP, which will really screw with the numbers.

 

[B00nie]

Exactly, which is why the only way to tell how well an OS is selling is to wait at least a few months, if not a year.

Not to mention most businesses will not be upgrading to Windows 8, and many of them are still in the middle of upgrading to Windows 7 from XP, which will really screw with the numbers.

Heh yeah, every time I see a company with NEW laptops and windows 7 it reduces my stress level by 30%. Some companies are still chugging along with 4-6 year old laptops and Windows XP:s and imagine people can effectively work on them. Sucks to be them.

 

[gamerk2]

Exactly, which is why the only way to tell how well an OS is selling is to wait at least a few months, if not a year.

Not to mention most businesses will not be upgrading to Windows 8, and many of them are still in the middle of upgrading to Windows 7 from XP, which will really screw with the numbers.

THIS. Not to mention having a UI forced upon them is making the server guys, well, livid.

Win8 is going to be a failure for MS, and as a result, you are going to see MS continue to lose ground in every market segment, as they have been for a few years now.

If OSX was able to be purchased as a stand alone OS (not tied directly to apple), you'd be seeing a shift away from Windows. But it isn't. Linux, for consumers, isn't ready (and likely won't be), so we're still stuck with Windows for the time being.

 

[faugusztin]

If OSX was able to be purchased as a stand alone OS (not tied directly to apple), you'd be seeing a shift away from Windows. But it isn't. Linux, for consumers, isn't ready (and likely won't be), so we're still stuck with Windows for the time being.

Oh believe me, OS X would drive people insane much, much more. No maximize button, best fit button doing stupid things, fullscreen working only on one display, no support for the Insert/Delete/Home/End/Page Up/Page Down block whatsoever and we can continue. It would drive any Windows user insane much quicker than the Start screen in Windows 8.

 

[DeathPrincess]

If OSX was able to be purchased as a stand alone OS (not tied directly to apple), you'd be seeing a shift away from Windows. But it isn't. Linux, for consumers, isn't ready (and likely won't be), so we're still stuck with Windows for the time being.

God no. I hate that PoS "OS". So many stupid design descisions like "hey you have to restart the whole Applcation/PC to swap sound sources!" (which is why I am amused by people who say they use it for audio work). It's probably the buggiest OS too, when using it you constantly are saving every few seconds as you know at some point it will just lollipop of death when you ask it to do 2 things. When there's a room of them you can almost ganrantee that there will be a few out of commision due to "issues".

The UI is horrendous too. The stupid popup icons at the bottom making the lower 10th of the screen "dangerous", which no one apparently told the application makers (who love to stick stuff down there, even first party...). Then having the windows not have any snap function, and only being able to resize from one corner. Plus having the buttons on the left because... ... ...because. Having no proper taskbar, lack of window management and other annoyances make it not fun to use. It can't run a boat load of stuff, and all of it's "exclusive" software is all junk (Final Cut is a home movie application that some people think is adequate to arrange clips in, Logic is a joke, etc. etc.).

It is nothing like Linux in any way, other than the tiny userbase.

 

[B00nie]

God no. I hate that PoS "OS". So many stupid design descisions like "hey you have to restart the whole Applcation/PC to swap sound sources!" (which is why I am amused by people who say they use it for audio work). It's probably the buggiest OS too, when using it you constantly are saving every few seconds as you know at some point it will just lollipop of death when you ask it to do 2 things. When there's a room of them you can almost ganrantee that there will be a few out of commision due to "issues".

The UI is horrendous too. The stupid popup icons at the bottom making the lower 10th of the screen "dangerous", which no one apparently told the application makers (who love to stick stuff down there, even first party...). Then having the windows not have any snap function, and only being able to resize from one corner. Plus having the buttons on the left because... ... ...because. Having no proper taskbar, lack of window management and other annoyances make it not fun to use. It can't run a boat load of stuff, and all of it's "exclusive" software is all junk (Final Cut is a home movie application that some people think is adequate to arrange clips in, Logic is a joke, etc. etc.).

It is nothing like Linux in any way, other than the tiny userbase.

And then you woke up from your little hater dream. OSX is so much easyer to use than windows and the apps are extremely user friendly. Windows is just clunky and virus prone.

 

[Dogs]

(which is why I am amused by people who say they use it for audio work).

People use it for audio work because the audio stack in OS X is much lighter than that in Windows. The audio stack in Windows is pretty deep, and if you try recording, processing and then immediately playing back audio under a high level audio API like DirectSound, you're going to notice some serious latency. This means that out-of-box, Windows would be a no-go for things like studio recording.

....Of course, that issue can be remedied by using ASIO, but naturally anybody uninformed enough to think a Mac is enough of a value to buy one, probably isn't aware of ASIO.

And then you woke up from your little hater dream. OSX is so much easyer to use than windows and the apps are extremely user friendly. Windows is just clunky and virus prone.

....Sad the least objective person in the world. Saying OSX is 'easyer' to use, context free, is what's known as an opinion.

 

[faugusztin]

And then you woke up from your little hater dream. OSX is so much easyer to use than windows and the apps are extremely user friendly. Windows is just clunky and virus prone.

You either just bought your first Mac and you are in the "new gadget love" period, didn't used it much or you didn't used it at all. Sorry, but OS X is so full of illogical things that it hurts. But i guess you like pressing Home/End in browser and getting Back/Forward instead (yes, that is the standard keyboard mapping in OS X).

 

[Dogs]

But i guess you like pressing Home/End in browser and getting Back/Forward instead (yes, that is the standard keyboard mapping in OS X).

LOL

 

[pelo]

People use it for audio work because the audio stack in OS X is much lighter than that in Windows. The audio stack in Windows is pretty deep, and if you try recording, processing and then immediately playing back audio under a high level audio API like DirectSound, you're going to notice some serious latency. This means that out-of-box, Windows would be a no-go for things like studio recording.

....Of course, that issue can be remedied by using ASIO, but naturally anybody uninformed enough to think a Mac is enough of a value to buy one, probably isn't aware of ASIO.



....Sad the least objective person in the world. Saying OSX is 'easyer' to use, context free, is what's known as an opinion.

DPC latency was a pretty big issue in Win8 and even the RTM version shipped with some serious audio lag and distortion because of overzealous power saving measures. It's since been fixed, though.

I'm guessing that's what you're referring to?

 

[DeathPrincess]

And then you woke up from your little hater dream. OSX is so much easyer to use than windows and the apps are extremely user friendly. Windows is just clunky and virus prone.

Doesn't OS/X have spellcheck in everything? What, prey tell, makes it so much "easier" to use? We'll see what comes first, an actual reason from you, or a security patch from crApple, you have 1-5 years, gogogo!

People use it for audio work because the audio stack in OS X is much lighter than that in Windows. The audio stack in Windows is pretty deep, and if you try recording, processing and then immediately playing back audio under a high level audio API like DirectSound, you're going to notice some serious latency. This means that out-of-box, Windows would be a no-go for things like studio recording.

....Of course, that issue can be remedied by using ASIO, but naturally anybody uninformed enough to think a Mac is enough of a value to buy one, probably isn't aware of ASIO.

Live monitoring is usually done on the "analog" paths so any latency isn't really an issue (plus with few exceptions nothing is effected digitally, and most stuff like compression is done via analog, inline digital effects even with ASIO have small latency so tend to be avoided to keep timing [plus it's easier to fix stuff that way]). Once the material is all down on disk it doesn't really matter, as long as the latency can be kept constant it's just a different length of pause at the start. For "live" sound you pretty much have no choice apart from ASIO (which is why more sound cards should include it! ). Though TBH there isn't really a difference, they are both as good as each other, just one has terrible terrible software (OSX). It seems the studios that use OSX tend to be much older people or places attached to schools/universitys. Not really sure why, but thats how it works.

A pet hate of mine is silly people doing 4+ channel "pro recording" with a MBP, then me having to go spend time doing spectral repairs on files with various "blips" (where the crappy harddisk couldn't keep up) in.

 

[PornoSatan]

Been using Windows 8 on and off for a while now, and I can confirm all the rumors: It's still a piece of shit. On the one hand I want to use StartIsBack, but on the other I shouldn't have to, so I've been using Windows 8 without it. It's amazing how much of a hassle it is to do simple things. Also, apparently when I shut down Microsoft thought I meant Hibernate instead. No, when I click shut down, I mean shut down. I pray to god the hibernate file doesn't get corrupted at any point in the future thanks to this 'feature'. Hell, the task manager doesn't even list the number of processes running. Also the ribbon explorer UI sucks. Thank the lord you can atleast right click the bottom left of the screen to feel atleast somewhat productive.

All in all I rate Windows 8 a 9/10 on the garbage scale. It's fun to shit in their DRM sandbox they call an OS.

 

[Dogs]

DPC latency was a pretty big issue in Win8 and even the RTM version shipped with some serious audio lag and distortion because of overzealous power saving measures. It's since been fixed, though.

I'm guessing that's what you're referring to?

No, not at all. Re-read my post. I'll give you a hint, though: Nowhere in my post did I mention that this was specific to Windows 8.

Live monitoring is usually done on the "analog" paths so any latency isn't really an issue (plus with few exceptions nothing is effected digitally, and most stuff like compression is done via analog, inline digital effects even with ASIO have small latency so tend to be avoided to keep timing [plus it's easier to fix stuff that way]). Once the material is all down on disk it doesn't really matter, as long as the latency can be kept constant it's just a different length of pause at the start. For "live" sound you pretty much have no choice apart from ASIO (which is why more sound cards should include it! ).

For people that are professional/serious enough to afford proper equipment, certainly. I was under the impression that by 'people who say they use it for audio work', you meant amatures/people who do it on the side, I.E. people with cheaper equipment and cheaper software.

Though TBH there isn't really a difference, they are both as good as each other, just one has terrible terrible software (OSX). It seems the studios that use OSX tend to be much older people or places attached to schools/universitys. Not really sure why, but thats how it works.

They probably follow the line of thinking that arose when OS X ran on PowerPC hardware, and could have arguably been a better platform for such work. The problem is, people made the connection that Macs were better, not that PowerPC was better, so even though PowerPC went away, some people still think Macs are just 'better' in some mystical way.

It's amazing how much of a hassle it is to do simple things.

Such as? Why don't you go ahead and give a few examples of simple things you feel are a hassle.