Windows 8 Sales Hit 60M Since Launch

[Semantics]

I use both UI's daily. Small trivial things add up when you use them on a regular basis. It is counter-productive for many people. Which is why the "option" of having it or not should be the main focus.

I stand by my conclusion that you're making a huge understatement. There are most definitely positives, but there are also a bunch of negatives to go right along with it.

-------

It's shit like this that pisses me off. Why the fuck do they insist on burying everything and making you jump through hoops to get to it? How the fuck can anybody defend that? I just want to switch from my speakers to my headset so I don't disturb my wife. Why the fuck did they make a common and simple as fuck task several more steps?

Start Menu

"Metro"

We just need to be honest and admit that it does have some stupid shit going on. Works great in some places, is a fucking back-assward nightmare in others. Honesty people. Fucking honesty.

CHANGE YOU SEARCH SETTINGS =p zeesh it's not like it can't do that it's just by default not indexed.

 

[Red Falcon]

CHANGE YOU SEARCH SETTINGS =p zeesh it's not like it can't do that it's just by default not indexed.

Holy hell!
Learn to snip those images! DAMN!

 

[SkribbelKat]

The consumers doesn't have any problem with it, that's where we are going, some people like you might hate it but the small minority really isn't going to stop it.

Who really has a data plan that is so expensive they cant afford web searches anyway?

What is it with people and accusing an opinion that disagrees as hate? Do we really have such a small vocabulary that we've limited ourselves to the polarity of extremes and cannot, in our devolved minds, see the ranges between?

Oddly enough, I'm a consumer and don't care for the idea of a unified search. It doesn't belong and if it works for you, that's all grand and lovely. I explained why I think it's lacking in both functional purpose and rationally supporting underpinnings.

Data plans are not expensive until one is already over their carrier-defined limit. At that point, then over charges tend to get costly. Consumers are akin to sheep and a few kilobytes here or there in search after a limit has been reached can quickly tally up to a nasty suprise at the end of the month.

Anyway, OS-based search itself that includes Internet resources which the system's user has no ability to control speaks volumes about the design goals that were in mind during development. It's easy to conclude the the designers failed to consider it and possibly rushed to meet a deadline by slapping whatever they could onto an existing core OS akin to the ME redress of 98 Second Edition or have such a low opinion of their user population that they feel eliminating choices is a good thing. Either way, there's a fundamental breakdown in thought and search is not the only aspect of Windows 8 where that breakdown surfaces (pun intended).

 

[SkribbelKat]

btw, the pink/purple/light-blue color scheme is fucking lame as shit.
Win 8 makes OS X look futuristic, cyberpunk, and manly.

Those colors are so lame, my gf won't even use them.
Windows Blinds ftw.

Yes, most of the color schemes are pretty disappointing, even ones that might have ended up as teh kyootness seem to me like something between "blah" and "hrrrngh...forced bulimia!"

 

[Red Squirrel]

Data plans ARE freaking expensive. Here it's minimum 50 bucks, and you know what that gets you? 100MB limit. No, I do not want a device that pokes around on the internet just for the hell of it. Not just for bandwidth reasons but for privacy.

It's sad that everything is heading towards "cloud" now. Even game consoles. Anyone setup a new game console lately like the Wii U or Xbox 360? You need a freaking account just to play a game. WTF is this BS? Why should there be ANY internet access required to play a local game? Same way a search for local content should not have anything to do with internet.

I'm glad I finally chose to go the Linux route for my main OS. Now my only fear is that Microsoft buys enough into UEFI and gets the power to restrict what OS can be installed on a computer by using that secure boot or whatever it's called.

I'm all for this cloud/central stuff, but this cloud should be in my basement and fully controlled by me, not on some random internet server. Sadly most consumers do not care about privacy or anything of sorts so commercial OSes/products will only continue to be this way. They just want it to work, they don't care how.

 

[Red Falcon]

Yes, most of the color schemes are pretty disappointing, even ones that might have ended up as teh kyootness seem to me like something between "blah" and "hrrrngh...forced bulimia!"

Microsoft gave us the option to change it in Vista and 7.
Why did they get rid of that functionality, aka Aero?

They could have allowed it for desktop users/systems with the ability to disable it on tablets for extended battery life.
But the real reason Microsoft got rid of it is because Windows 8 is an unoptimized POS excuse for an OS.


And btw heatlesssun, the GUI is not called Metro, it's called Modern UI.
For all you tout about what you know on Win 8, you could at least try and state the name correctly.

 

[heatlesssun]

At least Windows 7 gives users the option and an easy shortcut.
The hell is the big attraction to Windows 8?

Prior versions of Windows including 7 have the same limitation with creating shortcuts for certain Control Panel items directly in the GUI. The script I provided works in all versions of Windows from XP forward except the link ends up in the Start Menu instead of the Start Screen in versions prior to 8.

 

[rudy]

Its not MS, search is aggregating everywhere. One search button on android, on search button on windows 8 both will get you web searches the android one will default to that unless a program overrides it.

The major browsers of all relevant OSs have already turned their search and url bars into a single field.

It is clearly a trend that is bigger than your fit with windows 8

 

[Red Falcon]

I'm glad I finally chose to go the Linux route for my main OS. Now my only fear is that Microsoft buys enough into UEFI and gets the power to restrict what OS can be installed on a computer by using that secure boot or whatever it's called.

This isn't going to happen.
Unless you buy proprietary Microsoft hardware, you won't be locked out.

Microsoft doesn't own general hardware (thank God), and while the settings may be pre-set to their OS, one can easily change it.

 

[Red Falcon]

Prior versions of Windows including 7 have the same limitation with creating shortcuts for certain Control Panel items directly in the GUI. The script I provided works in all versions of Windows from XP forward except the link ends up in the Start Menu instead of the Start Screen in versions prior to 8.

Wow, that's great, so I need a script to customize Windows 8.
Yeah, that's not advancement, that's called regression.

Even the most obscure distros and locked-down variants of Linux aren't this cumbersome to customize.

 

[SkribbelKat]

Its not MS, search is aggregating everywhere. One search button on android, on search button on windows 8 both will get you web searches the android one will default to that unless a program overrides it.

The major browsers of all relevant OSs have already turned their search and url bars into a single field.

It is clearly a trend that is bigger than your fit with windows 8

Searching the web from within a browser address bar is just fine as far as I care. It's inside the browser so it should be looking for web resources. That's a no duh and is not at all any sort of contributing factor in an OS-based search having a good reason to also search the web. There's no reasonable way to compare the two.

As for what Google does with Android, that isn't my problem. I don't use the platform and have no intention of letting Google oogle at what I'm doing if I can help it. It's already creepy enough seeing the Google Bulge in everyone else's pants.

Anyhow, as I said before, you're entitled to your opinion and you're probably gonna end up being right that it'll get more prolific. Search that sniffs around the web will be an unavoidable thing. People are too lazy to open a web browser even though it takes a really tiny amount of effort and they're too stupid to realize that it slows down searching by looking in unnecessary places while costing them bandwidth. Pretty much any trailer court in the US has a buncha people that'll demonstrate why no one but a few of us will even notice, much less be a little bit concerned.

 

[heatlesssun]

Wow, that's great, so I need a script to customize Windows 8.
Yeah, that's not advancement, that's called regression.

Even the most obscure distros and locked-down variants of Linux aren't this cumbersome to customize.

Depending on the task at hand any OS will require a script or programmatic method to accomplish the goal and as I pointed out this particular customization isn't specific to Windows 8, it works in any version from XP and there's no way to do it directly through the GUI even in prior versions of Windows. Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

It would seem that you are attacking every OS there is because there's always things that can be achieved with scripts that can't be done otherwise.

 

[heatlesssun]

Searching the web from within a browser address bar is just fine as far as I care. It's inside the browser so it should be looking for web resources. That's a no duh and is not at all any sort of contributing factor in an OS-based search having a good reason to also search the web. There's no reasonable way to compare the two.

Searching within Windows 8 Search Bar doesn't necessarily mean a web search, apps can also support local search functions. All apps simply expose a consistent search method and the app doesn't even have to be running to be searchable.

 

[Red Falcon]

Depending on the task at hand any OS will require a script or programmatic method to accomplish the goal and as I pointed out this particular customization isn't specific to Windows 8, it works in any version from XP and there's no way to do it directly through the GUI even in prior versions of Windows. Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

No, Linux can be customized completely without scripting.

any OS will require a script or programmatic method to accomplish the goal

Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

No, only Windows OSes require scripts to accomplish anything.
Do not include Linux or UNIX in this level of bullshit.

Yes, scripting in Linux and UNIX can be used to customize a GUI, but it certainly is not required.

Both Linux and UNIX distros are far less rigid than any Windows OS, and are also not limited to any one GUI, unlike Windows.
This is what I meant by freedom and choice, as in, being able to customize one's OS to do what is most convenient for them, and not being locked into what big brother Microsoft says we can and can't do.


You know, this commercial would be so fitting right now, how ironic:

It would seem that you are attacking every OS there is because there's always things that can be achieved with scripts that can't be done otherwise.

Am I attacking every OS? No. I am not.
The only OS I have fully contended thus far is Windows 8.

If one needs scripts to customize their GUI, then the designers of the OS is completely missing the point, aka, this isn't 1990.
Average individuals don't want to use scripts and certainly should not be required to.

Now you are trying to justify the unneeded difficulty of customizing Windows 8 through scripts.
You have some serious mental problems if you think people are going go through scripting to simply customize their OS GUI, or that it's a good idea to have to do so.

 

[nOrVow]

Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

What's wrong with scripting?

You don't need to script to modify parts of a desktop environment. That's only needed for creating your own themes using an existing widget toolkit.

You seem to be spouting a lot of ignorant blanket statements about Linux. Why not actually learn and use it for an extended period of time, hm?


Btw, you need an required amount of about 20 years of experience before you can formulate any credible opinion about the operating system.

 

[Red Falcon]

What's wrong with scripting?

You don't need to script to modify parts of a desktop environment. That's only needed for creating your own themes using an existing widget toolkit.

You seem to be spouting a lot of ignorant blanket statements about Linux. Why not actually learn and use it for an extended period of time, hm?

This.

Btw, you need an required amount of about 20 years of experience before you can formulate any credible opinion about the operating system.

Using heatlesssun's logic, you would be correct.

 

[SkribbelKat]

Btw, you need an required amount of about 20 years of experience before you can formulate any credible opinion about the operating system.

 

[Wrench00]

I don't know about you guys but unified search is one of those things that piss me off. Especially Android. I want to search for a Contact it fucking brings up google search on some Derp in Europe... Fucking phone. I want to search for a file I want to know that it is or is not on the current storage not on the fucking web. This goes ten fold on a desktop, I also don't fucking want to click on the 6 HDS I have index this but don't index this shit. This actually is even more accurate to average joe schmoes, they want to see their pics on their computer not some random shit on the web. People are dumb but they are not that dumb not to distinguish tEH interw3bz.

Windows for the desktop is meant for average person NO SCRIPTING EVER should be ever needed to provide functionality that previously existed in the OS. Speaking as a IT guy ms on the server desktop is going backwards there as well, they want to go to powershell and no gui, Lets just give everyone in the world powershell user interface.

 

[Red Falcon]

Windows for the desktop is meant for average person NO SCRIPTING EVER should be ever needed to provide functionality that previously existed in the OS. Speaking as a IT guy ms on the server desktop is going backwards there as well, they want to go to powershell and no gui, Lets just give everyone in the world powershell user interface.

+1

Too bad heatlesssun is now trying to push the who "scripting is the future" thing on us now, mainly to make Windows 8 look like an even more polished turd.

 

[SkribbelKat]

I don't know about you guys but unified search is one of those things that piss me off. Especially Android. I want to search for a Contact it fucking brings up google search on some Derp in Europe... Fucking phone. I want to search for a file I want to know that it is or is not on the current storage not on the fucking web. This goes ten fold on a desktop, I also don't fucking want to click on the 6 HDS I have index this but don't index this shit. This actually is even more accurate to average joe schmoes, they want to see their pics on their computer not some random shit on the web. People are dumb but they are not that dumb not to distinguish tEH interw3bz.

Windows for the desktop is meant for average person NO SCRIPTING EVER should be ever needed to provide functionality that previously existed in the OS. Speaking as a IT guy ms on the server desktop is going backwards there as well, they want to go to powershell and no gui, Lets just give everyone in the world powershell user interface.

I have a huge problem with this transition back to power shell. Sure, task automation is great and I like the option of having a CLI command to invoke a task or sequence of tasks, but Windows Server is taking giant leaps backwards by leaving certain functions purely as text-driven commands. They've integrated so many capabilities, that it almost seems like they can't spend the time coding a reasonable GUI to get those things done.

 

[MikeTrike]

CHANGE YOU SEARCH SETTINGS =p zeesh it's not like it can't do that it's just by default not indexed.

I wish people would read my post. It's there, it's just more steps now. On countless items... It's stupid design, it works, but it's stupid. It could be solved pretty simply too! Instead of having the search do apps, settings or files. Have the option to have it search "all" by default. Bam! Solved that one... Next problem please.

 

[odditory]

I have a huge problem with this transition back to power shell. Sure, task automation is great and I like the option of having a CLI command to invoke a task or sequence of tasks, but Windows Server is taking giant leaps backwards by leaving certain functions purely as text-driven commands. They've integrated so many capabilities, that it almost seems like they can't spend the time coding a reasonable GUI to get those things done.

What seems like an emphasis on powershell stuff is actually aimed at headless installation scenarios (aka the 'Core" installation option which has no GUI). Enterprise, datacenters, hosted servers, they all have an interest in this because Unix servers have been this way forever.

 

[SkribbelKat]

What seems like an emphasis on powershell stuff is actually aimed at headless installation scenarios (aka the 'Core" installation option which has no GUI). Enterprise, datacenters, hosted servers, they all have an interest in this because Unix servers have been this way forever.

It takes like no monies to just stick a KVM and monitor/keyboard drawer in a rack, but I guess there are the super high-density systems where rack space matters a lot. With everything being virtualized though, you can just peek in on the UI through the hypervisor.

 

[MikeTrike]

It takes like no monies to just stick a KVM and monitor/keyboard drawer in a rack, but I guess there are the super high-density systems where rack space matters a lot. With everything being virtualized though, you can just peek in on the UI through the hypervisor.

You can also use the GUI on your desktop with MMC to tap directly into each one's Hyper-V console from a single pane. We've got a few running with core only, that we tap into like that.

 

[pelo]

Hyperspeed

+

Hypervisor?

 

[Red Squirrel]

LOL

 

[heatlesssun]

I wish people would read my post. It's there, it's just more steps now. On countless items... It's stupid design, it works, but it's stupid. It could be solved pretty simply too! Instead of having the search do apps, settings or files. Have the option to have it search "all" by default. Bam! Solved that one... Next problem please.

I did read your post and understood your point. I change audio output a lot on my tablets and the short cut is much faster and easier than typing or using the task try sound icon which is why I provided the script. It creates an app link so searching for sound will show in Apps. I can understand wanting to have an "All" option there but remember that the number of results that can show up in the Start Menu is pretty limited, you have to select "See more results" to see everything that a larger search result set could return. So an "All" could end up brining back a lot of results. In any case, if it's something that one does often, a short cut might make a lot of sense regardless.

Short cuts in Windows 8 and Windows 7 are the same thing, they are just files in either the %SystemDrive%\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu or %SystemDrive% \Users\%UserName%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu directories and managed the same way. I was actually mistaken about the script I provided earlier being the only way to create this particular type of short cut. It can be created in the Windows/File Explorer and the way it is created is identical between Windows 7 and 8. The following link specifically is about Windows 7 but this same procedure is exactly how it works in Windows 8: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/296-start-menu-all-programs-add-delete-shortcuts.html

As for not needing scripts to customize things in Linux, I remember coming across this the last time I played with Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UnityLaunchersAndDesktopFiles. This certainly doesn't look like the all through the GUI management to me when it's referencing the editing of configuration files and shares a number of common elements with creating short cuts in Windows.

 

[wonderfield]

Those are not scripts.

 

[Red Falcon]

As for not needing scripts to customize things in Linux, I remember coming across this the last time I played with Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UnityLaunchersAndDesktopFiles. This certainly doesn't look like the all through the GUI management to me when it's referencing the editing of configuration files and shares a number of common elements with creating short cuts in Windows.

I never said one doesn't need scripts to edit a GUI in Linux, I said that they weren't required.
One can easily do this through a terminal without the need for scripts, it's not that big of a deal.

While slightly similar in concept, they are far from the same.

 

[nOrVow]

Those are not scripts... lol

 

[Red Falcon]

Those are not scripts... lol

Shh, we don't want to embarrass him by pointing out reality.
Just let him have his fantasy, makes him happy when he thinks he actually knows something about Linux.

 

[KENNYB]

I wish people would read my post. It's there, it's just more steps now. On countless items... It's stupid design, it works, but it's stupid. It could be solved pretty simply too! Instead of having the search do apps, settings or files. Have the option to have it search "all" by default. Bam! Solved that one... Next problem please.

CHANGE YOU SEARCH SETTINGS =p zeesh it's not like it can't do that it's just by default not indexed.

It is indexed. Like Mike stated, it's there, but it's just more steps. In the picture posted "Apps" is selected by default. We need a "ALL" selection that we should be able to select as default.

 

[KENNYB]

Depending on the task at hand any OS will require a script or programmatic method to accomplish the goal and as I pointed out this particular customization isn't specific to Windows 8, it works in any version from XP and there's no way to do it directly through the GUI even in prior versions of Windows. Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

It would seem that you are attacking every OS there is because there's always things that can be achieved with scripts that can't be done otherwise.

You don't understand the UNIX philosophy. If you did you would understand that we don't need scripts to modify the OS.

 

[Red Falcon]

You don't understand the UNIX philosophy. If you did you would understand that we don't need scripts to modify the OS.

Well he refuses to work with anything outside of Microsoft related OSes.
This is what happens when one is a Windows-only user, you tend to lose sight of the big picture in favor of proprietary Microsoft software.

 

[SkribbelKat]

Well he refuses to work with anything outside of Microsoft related OSes.
This is what happens when one is a Windows-only user, you tend to lose sight of the big picture in favor of proprietary Microsoft software.

He did claim to use Linux once, I thought. Then again, without 20 years of experience, you're pretty much not allowed to have an opinion on anything.

 

[Red Falcon]

He did claim to use Linux once, I thought. Then again, without 20 years of experience, you're pretty much not allowed to have an opinion on anything.

Yeah, he "tried" it about 5 or 6 years ago, which GNU/Linux has changed radically since that time period, so whatever knowledge he has is very very dated.
Oh, and I have been using Microsoft products since the Windows 3.0 and 386 days, so by his logic, I have full rights to my opinions, lol.

 

[heatlesssun]

Regardless of the type of artifact the purpose and function of this:

set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
strStartMenu = WshShell.SpecialFolders("StartMenu")
set oShellLink = WshShell.CreateShortcut(strStartMenu & "\Sound.lnk")
oShellLink.TargetPath = "%systemroot%\System32\control.exe "
oShellLink.Arguments = "mmsys.cpl sounds"
oShellLink.WindowStyle = 1
oShellLink.IconLocation = "%systemroot%\System32\mmsys.cpl,7"
oShellLink.Description = "Sounds"
oShellLink.WorkingDirectory = "%systemroot%\System32\"
oShellLink.Save
Set oShellLink = Nothing

is pretty much analogous to this:

[Desktop Entry]
Version=x.y
Name=ProgramName
Comment=This is my comment
Exec=/home/alex/Documents/exec.sh
Icon=/home/alex/Pictures/icon.png
Terminal=false
Type=Application
Categories=Utility;Application;

In both cases there are a set of instructions that can be generated with a text editor, in both cases syntax errors can occur and in both cases a GUI shortcut is generated. The Unity Launcher in more powerful as it's a superset of Windows Start Menu/Screen shortcut functionality.

I never said that any Linux GUI or anything else for that required scripting. My point was when dealing with any complex system the occasion may arise depending on need to do something programmatic, a script or configuration file manipulation. I wasn't trying to compare Linux to Windows. Most Windows users will never have a need to do things like this and a non-technical Linux user wouldn't either I would imagine.

My point in all of this was that creating custom shortcuts work pretty much the same in Windows 7 and the Start Menu as they do with Windows 8 and the Start Screen. They are simply files that reside in the same file paths in both OSes and the same built-in GUI tools and scripts have the same effect.

 

[Red Falcon]

I never said that any Linux GUI or anything else for that required scripting.

Well, yes you did:

Depending on the task at hand any OS will require a script or programmatic method to accomplish the goal and as I pointed out this particular customization isn't specific to Windows 8, it works in any version from XP and there's no way to do it directly through the GUI even in prior versions of Windows. Linux proponents constantly point out the flexibility and customizability of Linux is and much of that is accomplished with scripts and/or code.

No, Linux does not require scripting to accomplish anything, unlike Windows 8.
Again, everything can be done through a terminal to accomplish what one wants.

And no, a terminal is not the same as scripting, just fyi.

 

[nOrVow]

In post 292 you said specifically said "scripts and/or code" for integral parts of the desktop environment. Now you're comparing random scripts to configuration files?

Scripts =/= configuration files. No, they're not analogous.

Stop moving goalposts and shoehorning your ignorance. Don't be a monkey.

 

[nOrVow]

edit: specifically said*

bahh