Windows 8 Release Preview Download

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
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Already responded in the other thread heatless..It doesn't really add any complexity.



I don't need my start menu to take up my entire 24" monitor.
I don't need my "hot points" to be on the far fucking end of a triple 24" monitor setup.
I don't want my computer to Auto boot straight into that tiled bullshit.
I don't want my productivity machine acting like a 10" tablet.
I want my Productivity machine to have a Productivity UI, Not a Consumption UI.

Is that really so hard to grasp? You want it, you like it. That's great. I don't I have tried it and frankly it sucks. I love it on a tablet but it is a constant source of "piss off" on my desktop. There is literally nothing I like about metro on my desktop, it is a freaking horribly designed and terrible to look at UI for a large monitor environment. It is Microsoft's windows version of a console port to a PC. It wasn't designed for my PC and it reminds you every time you attempt to do anything. My desktop monitors are getting bigger, not smaller and aren't including touch ever. I have no need or desire to have a touch oriented OS on it.

It was designed for the PC. Your dramatic anger is not equal to the number of real dramatic changes. Win8 is mostly Win7 with metro added which is not in your face most of the time unless you want it to be. You're acting like its 100% different.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
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Anyway as said before, I think MS is completely fine with people sticking to Win7 like it's the new XP. In fact I think it's popularity and stability are actually the reasons they can try something new and "daring". Then people will transition in their own time to the new ecosystem/style/cloud.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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Solves nothing. The whole premise of Metro opponents is that it doesn't work with a mouse and keyboard. Thing is I can have a mouse and keyboard and touch and pen on one device simultaneously. You keep thinking about desktop mode and tablet mode when the reality is all these things are always available,

Just think about it from a marketing perceptive. I've got my nice shinny $1500 hybrid device running Windows 8. Keyboard, slick touch gestures track pad and even a pen. But to gain maximum efficiency while using a keyboard and mouse I need to turn off Metro? Why didn't Microsoft make the UI work well with all the input devices without switching modes?

We aren't saying it doesn't work with a mouse and keyboard. We are saying the interface is far less efficient with a mouse and keyboard vs the current standard. How hard is that to comprehend? I don't give a rats ass about your hybrid device, your hybrid device shouldn't negatively impact my productivity device experience and that is exactly what Win 8 is pushing.

Again, No One is arguing that win 8 isn't a superior touch interface, It is. We are arguing that the experience doesn't need to be crammed down the throats of non touch users who have something overwhelmingly better.

It was designed for the PC. Your dramatic anger is not equal to the number of real dramatic changes. Win8 is mostly Win7 with metro added which is not in your face most of the time unless you want it to be. You're acting like its 100% different.

You haven't actually used it have you? It wasn't designed for a desktop and MS made that point quite clear. Just because it was built on the Win 7 platform doesn't make it designed for PC. This OS was designed for tablets and touch devices and everything else be damned. Once again, it is great on a tablet. Hell for the DP mouse and kb barely worked which is a basic functionality for computers. That alone should tell you that PC was an afterthought from the get go.

Anyway as said before, I think MS is completely fine with people sticking to Win7 like it's the new XP. In fact I think it's popularity and stability are actually the reasons they can try something new and "daring". Then people will transition in their own time to the new ecosystem/style/cloud.

Actually you would be dead wrong. MS has stated repeatedly they Never want another XP to happen again. They are in fact Not OK with people staying on an OS for 10 years again. Which makes this entire push by them all the more intolerable. They are bent on shoving this 1990's AOLish interface down everyone's throats and unless everyone revolts are unlikely to back off from it. I don't want to be stuck 10 years from now when all Windows OS's look like this being one of those assholes pining for the "good old days" when the desktop UI wasn't designed for 10 year olds.
 

socK

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,215
If you don't like Metro / the lack of a start menu, just install classic shell. Bam problem fixed and you get to reap all the benefits and bypass the negatives.
 

oldpablo

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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We aren't saying it doesn't work with a mouse and keyboard. We are saying the interface is far less efficient with a mouse and keyboard vs the current standard. How hard is that to comprehend? I don't give a rats ass about your hybrid device, your hybrid device shouldn't negatively impact my productivity device experience and that is exactly what Win 8 is pushing.

Again, No One is arguing that win 8 isn't a superior touch interface, It is. We are arguing that the experience doesn't need to be crammed down the throats of non touch users who have something overwhelmingly better.



You haven't actually used it have you? It wasn't designed for a desktop and MS made that point quite clear. Just because it was built on the Win 7 platform doesn't make it designed for PC. This OS was designed for tablets and touch devices and everything else be damned. Once again, it is great on a tablet. Hell for the DP mouse and kb barely worked which is a basic functionality for computers. That alone should tell you that PC was an afterthought from the get go.



Actually you would be dead wrong. MS has stated repeatedly they Never want another XP to happen again. They are in fact Not OK with people staying on an OS for 10 years again. Which makes this entire push by them all the more intolerable. They are bent on shoving this 1990's AOLish interface down everyone's throats and unless everyone revolts are unlikely to back off from it. I don't want to be stuck 10 years from now when all Windows OS's look like this being one of those assholes pining for the "good old days" when the desktop UI wasn't designed for 10 year olds.

I have used it and it's great. So I guess you're just sharing your opinion then, like me. Sorry you can't learn to move your mouse a little differently, good luck with the future!

I mean I'll say it one more time just to be really clear. Metro is just a LARGER START BUTTON. YOU STILL HAVE YOUR DESKTOP AND CAN STAY ON IT FOR HOURS WITHOUT USING METRO IF YOU WANT TO!
 

Dekoth-E-

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I have used it and it's great. So I guess you're just sharing your opinion then, like me. Sorry you can't learn to move your mouse a little differently, good luck with the future!

I mean I'll say it one more time just to be really clear. Metro is just a LARGER START BUTTON. YOU STILL HAVE YOUR DESKTOP AND CAN STAY ON IT FOR HOURS WITHOUT USING METRO IF YOU WANT TO!

Passive aggressive insults aren't going to work with me. It is far more complex then merely learning to use the mouse differently. Nice try though.

Metro is far more than a "larger" start button. Stop being a blind fanboy and realize it isn't a bad thing to give users choice. That is all most of us are arguing for. You can ignore the ones who just want metro to disappear completely. Most of us simply want to be able to choose our experience and not have one force fed too us. I am honestly surprised that some of the same people that bash apple so hard for this same thing are blindly defending microsoft for doing the same thing. Double standards much?
 

thelead

2[H]4U
Joined
May 28, 2005
Messages
2,220
If you don't like Metro / the lack of a start menu, just install classic shell. Bam problem fixed and you get to reap all the benefits and bypass the negatives.

There are rumors that they are going back and removing legacy code to prevent such things.
 

Diriel

n00b
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
62
Does the bottom left corner Right Click still work in this new version? I have not tried this one. How about the Top Right / Bottom Right and right click? Just curious. Still not really diggin the Metro on desktop. As a touch interface it seems pretty smooth for the most part. Not sure I have a lot of use for a Pad though... Phone / Kindle / PC.... /shrug. This 3 device system seems to work reasonably well for me.

Perhaps I am just an odd duck.. :)
 
Joined
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Does the bottom left corner Right Click still work in this new version? I have not tried this one. How about the Top Right / Bottom Right and right click? Just curious. Still not really diggin the Metro on desktop. As a touch interface it seems pretty smooth for the most part. Not sure I have a lot of use for a Pad though... Phone / Kindle / PC.... /shrug. This 3 device system seems to work reasonably well for me.

Perhaps I am just an odd duck.. :)

if you mean the little menu that starts with programs and features, yes its still there. its not too bad as an os since I set it to boot straight to the desktop. still has some annoying features such as the overly convoluted way of running in safe mode, shutting down etc.
 

heatlesssun

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Metro is far more than a "larger" start button. Stop being a blind fanboy and realize it isn't a bad thing to give users choice. That is all most of us are arguing for.

I love choices myself and actually Windows 8 gives one more choices than Windows 7. Windows 8 does work fine with mice and keyboards for plenty of people and it also works MUCH better with touch, tablets and there's even slight improvements to pen input.

Metro opponents want a choice of UIs because they don't believe in convergence or that touch has legitimacy on the PC. Microsoft has rolled touch and Metro deeply into Windows 8. What you're asking for is a switch to turn this all off. A switch to turn off the whole point of Windows 8.

Love or hate Windows 8 just from the standpoint of common reason that doesn't really make a lot of sense. So Microsoft does all of this work but then says but hey if you don't like what we did you can turn it all off. And the question would be why in the hell did Microsoft spend all of this effort and then provide an off switch?

Again, it's a far more complex subject than Metro opponents want to concede.
 

impar

n00b
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
53
Greetings!
So Microsoft does all of this work but then says but hey if you don't like what we did you can turn it all off. And the question would be why in the hell did Microsoft spend all of this effort and then provide an off switch?
Basic logical commonsense?
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
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I love choices myself and actually Windows 8 gives one more choices than Windows 7. Windows 8 does work fine with mice and keyboards for plenty of people and it also works MUCH better with touch, tablets and there's even slight improvements to pen input.

If Win 7 was going to have the same EOL as Win 8 then I would agree with you and we wouldn't be having this debate. However because it is intended to replace win 7 and "be the future" of windows. That really makes it not so much of a choice. Sure it is right this moment, but what happens when Win 7 is EOL and all versions of windows are like Win 8? Then the choice is completely gone. Look at the big picture. This is what the proponents of Metro don't seem to get.

Metro opponents want a choice of UIs because they don't believe in convergence or that touch has legitimacy on the PC. Microsoft has rolled touch and Metro deeply into Windows 8. What you're asking for is a switch to turn this all off. A switch to turn off the whole point of Windows 8.


Love or hate Windows 8 just from the standpoint of common reason that doesn't really make a lot of sense. So Microsoft does all of this work but then says but hey if you don't like what we did you can turn it all off. And the question would be why in the hell did Microsoft spend all of this effort and then provide an off switch?

Again, it's a far more complex subject than Metro opponents want to concede.[/QUOTE]


I would agree with the bolded part. I do not believe in convergence as tablets and desktops perform completely different tasks. Just like I don't want my PC operating like a game console, I don't want it operating like a tablet either. If turning off metro turns off the entire point of win 8 then that just reinforces the fact that Win 8 has no business being called Win 8 as it is just a tablet OS. However if it is an "upgrade" to win 7 like some of you keep claiming, then it should be able to stand without features that aren't designed for a desktop. So it is either a Tablet OS and a halfassed port to the desktop or Metro should be able to be turned off. It is straight forward logic to follow.

So if you turn off all the touch options, then Win 8 is flatly not desirable to any desktop user. I won't include laptops as battery consumption is a big selling point, but even that is debatable given what is currently being achieved on modern hardware and Win 7. That isn't to say that Win 8 can't become something that desktop users desire, it is just that without the tablet features it really is quite sparse in new features. Don't get me wrong, I know why MS is doing this. They know without doubt that if they tried to sell a Tablet only OS without producing their own that it would flop miserably. Between people just not wanting to pay the typical high MS price and between competitors who would clearly lock down their hardware it would fail completely. Basically the gamble they are taking is they are robbing peter to pay paul. They are robbing their existing customer base who due to "market saturation" is largely stagnant in sales (Still out selling tablets though), to gain the rapidly growing tablet market. This of course is a gamble because no one knows just what kind of staying power tablets have. Frankly given the history of small cheap devices like this, it is a Massive risk.

Don't get me wrong, I am not going to make any hasty stupid decisions over this. I won't be buying Win 8, but nor will I be converting to linux or MacOS either. I loved linux for years and it is fun for learning, but impractical in day to day use. I love OSX from an aesthetics standpoint, but its security as an OS is just a sad joke. My macbook pro that dual boots OSX and Win 7 is hands down one of the best laptops I have had. It lets me take care of the unique needs of my mac customers while still having access to a full windows environment for when I need to get stuff done. My point is, I love technology and I don't hate any company. I simply hate stupid decisions and Win 8 comes across as one massive stupid decision after another. Windows Vista and Windows 7 represented the first real steps in OS design and functionality from MS that was both functional and aesthetically pleasing. Windows 8 manages to take all that and just piss all over it with an interface that is ugly and terribly designed. Even IF I liked the layout..it is still just plain ugly.
 

heatlesssun

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I simply hate stupid decisions and Win 8 comes across as one massive stupid decision after another. Windows Vista and Windows 7 represented the first real steps in OS design and functionality from MS that was both functional and aesthetically pleasing. Windows 8 manages to take all that and just piss all over it with an interface that is ugly and terribly designed. Even IF I liked the layout..it is still just plain ugly.

Here's the thing. Windows and PCs simply aren't connecting to people like they used to and the main reason is that there are now simply more choices. But almost all the popular choices these days with average consumers are related to touch and tablets and mobility and while Microsoft has done this stuff long before Apple or Google Microsoft has not been commercially successful.

A lot of you have said that you've showed Windows 8 to others and they said they hated it. I've been showing it to people with my tablet devices and most thought is pretty cool. I have a demo where I show playing Angry Birds Space with touch and mouse (though all the Angry Birds games are desktop apps, they work perfectly on Windows touch devices), switching over to laptop mode and running Office and playing Steam games, then show the Metro apps working with touch and keyboard and mouse.

So the Metro debate will go on, its big, its ugly, doesn't work well with mice and keyboards but then the right hardware to use it will come along and I think the debate will be irrelevant because good Windows 8 devices will just be so functional.
 

fleggett

Gawd
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Nov 30, 2004
Messages
546
Thanks for the link. Now I know I haven't gone totally bonkers.

I'll have to read over that blog entry thoroughly, as I'd like to pick and choose what data I want saved and what I want deleted on the server. I don't know if I'm very keen on the whole "sync everything by default" direction Microsoft has taken with Win8. I don't recall this happening with Win7.
 

Dekoth-E-

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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Here's the thing. Windows and PCs simply aren't connecting to people like they used to and the main reason is that there are now simply more choices. But almost all the popular choices these days with average consumers are related to touch and tablets and mobility and while Microsoft has done this stuff long before Apple or Google Microsoft has not been commercially successful.

A lot of you have said that you've showed Windows 8 to others and they said they hated it. I've been showing it to people with my tablet devices and most thought is pretty cool. I have a demo where I show playing Angry Birds Space with touch and mouse (though all the Angry Birds games are desktop apps, they work perfectly on Windows touch devices), switching over to laptop mode and running Office and playing Steam games, then show the Metro apps working with touch and keyboard and mouse.

So the Metro debate will go on, its big, its ugly, doesn't work well with mice and keyboards but then the right hardware to use it will come along and I think the debate will be irrelevant because good Windows 8 devices will just be so functional.

Right, you won't hear me disagreeing with you in that respect. I likewise love win 8 on a tablet. I simply don't love it on the machine I am and my users will be spending 90% of their productive time on.
 

wonderfield

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Basic logical commonsense?
Heh. His argument is akin to arguing that Bethesda should force users to do all the side quests in their games. If they put in the time, you should be obligated to consume the content, right?
 

heatlesssun

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Right, you won't hear me disagreeing with you in that respect. I likewise love win 8 on a tablet. I simply don't love it on the machine I am and my users will be spending 90% of their productive time on.

And of all of the things we've talked about, the Start Screen being too big or too ugly or the power controls in a different location, once you get past the learning curve, just how much different is using desktop applications between Windows 7 & 8? Just how much time is actually spent launching programs or shutting down a computer.

The experience on the desktop and in desktop applications just isn't all that different.
 

heatlesssun

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Heh. His argument is akin to arguing that Bethesda should force users to do all the side quests in their games. If they put in the time, you should be obligated to consume the content, right?

If Microsoft put in a switch to turn off Metro its pretty obvious that that would raise peoples eyebrows who'd be thinking just what I said. Why would Microsoft spend the bulk of their development effort in Windows 8 on something that can be turned off? That's basically Microsoft saying that they have no confidence in the majority of the work that they did Windows 8. They are saying that Metro works fine with a mouse and keyboard. Putting an off switch would really mean, well maybe not. Further more it would seriously undermine Metro app development as developers would no longer have 100% certainty that their apps would have the market space of ALL Windows 8 computers.

And to the issue that Microsoft is forcing something on users. The point behind Metro is that the UI supports keyboards, mice, touch and pens simultaneously on any device with the proper support, just like Windows 7 except this time Microsoft is actually putting in effort to make touch work well. You may disagree with the design goal but I don't think that's any more force than a developer imposes when trying to attain certain goals. It certainly is no more force than Microsoft has used in the past. They've never been about customizable or switchable UIs. It's been that way with Windows and Office with the ribbon.
 

westrock2000

[H]F Junkie
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Jun 3, 2005
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Well I like many other people have learned something about Windows 7 & 8 by doing this. That while Windows will let you make backup images of UEFI installs, the Windows Restore disc is not UEFI compatible. Meaning it has to boot into BIOS mode.

So at that point it will see the image but will error out because you are trying to load a UEFI image while in BIOS mode. The Windows 7 install disc will boot into UEFI, but it won't install an image.

The Windows 8 disc will boot into UEFI and it includes a image restore ability....however it will only recover images made in Windows 8.

Knowing that I was going to have to completely reinstall Windows 7 made me mad enough to not want to deal with Windows 8 right now. I did like the Metro look. I wish they would get rid of the Desktop though. As others mentioned it was distractive to go back to the Desktop to do things.
 
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