Windows 8 helping me sell sell sell.

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daglesj

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 7, 2005
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Having tried Windows 8 and being quite unimpressed by it as a desktop/laptop user. I've been showing it to some of my customers that have yet to upgrade from XP.

Just told them to have a 'play with the near future!" I then walk away for 15 minutes.

I now have orders for Windows 7 machines.

Windows 8 certainly does one thing very well, makes Windows 7 look very desirable to the average Joe User. I don't have to say anything.

Thanks Microsoft.:D:cool:
 
Ok showing them a beta of a product no be releases for another six months? Nice.
 
xBanzai89 said:
Ok showing them a beta of a product no be releases for another six months? Nice.
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Since you seem so logical, answer me this. What do you expect to change from the CP to release that is not going to be perceived negatively?

I can tell you right now that people are turned off by Metro on desktops. Metro is not going away. Think of all the crap Microsoft took for Vista, which was pretty similar to XP. Do you think that completely changing the way a desktop Windows looks, feels, and operates is going to not get the same negative reaction?

Slight changes - huge negative reaction ...

Huge changes - Great positive reaction? <-- what you and a few other guys here think.
 
Metro certainly has it's place, and I commend MS for bringing something original, but to the average desktop worker, no., the CEO or manager with his/her tablet..yes.
 
xBanzai89 said:
Ok showing them a beta of a product no be releases for another six months? Nice.
Click to expand...

I did the same with Win7 back when it was in beta. Pretty much all my customers moved from vista/XP to the Win7 BETA. As of today none of them have requests for windows 8.
 
So far most of the feedback I've over heard has been mainly -

"Where the hell..?" "WTF?" "That's bloody stupid!" Why do I have to..?" "Why cant I?" "I'll get a Mac next time!"

Not looking good. The feedback from XP user to 7 was pretty much always positive. Even the negatives (not really) could be explained with some logical reason.

With 8/Metro I really haven't got any explanations other then Metro was designed by/for folks that don't really work with computers in a day to day mundane fashion.
 
bigdogchris said:
Since you seem so logical, answer me this. What do you expect to change from the CP to release that is not going to be perceived negatively?

I can tell you right now that people are turned off by Metro on desktops. Metro is not going away. Think of all the crap Microsoft took for Vista, which was pretty similar to XP. Do you think that completely changing the way a desktop Windows looks, feels, and operates is going to not get the same negative reaction?

Slight changes - huge negative reaction ...

Huge changes - Great positive reaction? <-- what you and a few other guys here think.
Click to expand...

Having a option for a regular desktop option or a make over of metro for better desktop usage. Pretty sure one of those two will happen.
 
xBanzai89 said:
Having a option for a regular desktop option or a make over of metro for better desktop usage. Pretty sure one of those two will happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I'm hoping for. All it needs is a "Windows 7" user mode option and all the fuss just goes away instantly.

I'm sure Apple is rubbing their hands at the thought of all those silver surfers/mom & pop/less tech orientated folks moving away from their old XP machines, taking one look at Metro and buying a Mac instead as it looks a little more familiar.
 
Exactly I doubt MS wants another Vista fiasco. To be honest the regular desktop option should probably be default as 90% of people out there will have no idea how turn Metro off if it ends up not getting any better. I've used it quite a bit and its ok, but it needs a lot of work for better organizing. I hate how it just slaps the newly installed programs in Metro. Just makes more work for the consumer to fix.
 
I installed it on a spare laptop at work. I haven't had one good comment from anyone who has tried to use it. This is not a good start for windows 8. It might be great for a touch screen but for a desktop in my opinion its a disaster.
 
xBanzai89 said:
Ok showing them a beta of a product no be releases for another six months? Nice.
Click to expand...

Metro ain't gonna disappear. MS is too hard-headed to listen to their customers.

The ribbon bars in office prove that.
 
xBanzai89 said:
Having a option for a regular desktop option or a make over of metro for better desktop usage. Pretty sure one of those two will happen.
Click to expand...

Rumor has it they actually pulled the old interface code out starting with the CP. If that's true, then putting it back in might not be feasible.

This is why the old hacks don't work, and even the published utilities out don't really give you the start menu back. They kinda re-create one from scratch in a window.
 
As I mentioned in the thread on the news forum, In the end all Microsoft cares about is that a windows license is sold, and they are well aware that most businesses upgrade cycle is going to make businesses choose. Not to mention, you are kind of stacking the deck for 7 for not specifying the changes like Windows to Go or DirectAccess which may sway them the other way.
 
I said it WAY back. They need to make it have a "desktop (optional metro) or mobile(with metro)" install.

Having said that, it's easy to drop away from Metro to the desktop, and not use the app screen.
 
It seems to me the changes needed to make Windows 8 a huge hit for both tablet and PC/laptop users is so glaringly obvious and logical that only someone in charge with a stubborn ego could overlook it. This is so tantalizingly close to being an awesome product that it's frustrating.

I can only hope that MS is listening to the feedback.
 
I'd be very surprised if MS are that arrogant compared to the Vista experience. There is more choice now, especially in the cloud / connected world for them not to be arrogant.

I work on an account that by one measure is the largest commercial company in the world. They will be doing Windows 8 AFAIK. I would be very surprised if Metro is "forced" on the population across all worker types. On the other hand, the ribbon bar does show "previous"... :)
 
haileris said:
I work on an account that by one measure is the largest commercial company in the world. They will be doing Windows 8 AFAIK.
Click to expand...

Is that measure "most Windows 8 computing platforms in the corporate world"?

Hehe ;)

The place I work is just rolling out Windows 7 and Office 2010 in a couple months. Thank goodness! I rather like the office ribbon, once you find out where things are. Not sold on the new start screen though, I think it's an abomination. I need to install it and try it though.
 
iroc409 said:
The place I work is just rolling out Windows 7 and Office 2010 in a couple months. Thank goodness! I rather like the office ribbon, once you find out where things are. Not sold on the new start screen though, I think it's an abomination. I need to install it and try it though.
Click to expand...

I find using the windows key to quickly get in and out of the Start page is the best approach. I'll tell you though, it is a royal pain in the ass to configure what you want on the Start page, and arranging the tiles in the order I want is incredibly frustrating since they seem to follow some mysterious auto-flow pattern that makes me want to scream.
 
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There was an registry edit on the very first release of 8 that would allow you to turn the start menu back to the classic windows 7 one. It pretty much deleted the home screen, and the computer worked just like 7.
 
They are trying not to segment the different platforms. But, like Apple, that is what they NEED to do. A desktop OS makes a shitty mobile OS (Windows Mobile with Start button and small menus). A mobile OS makes a shitty desktop OS. I like Metro, but not on the desktop. Kind of like I that short skirt on Scarlett Johannson. It's ok, but I'd rather the skirt be on the floor.... Ok, no relation. Just a great mental image.
 
maw said:
I find using the windows key to quickly get in and out of the Start page is the best approach. I'll tell you though, it is a royal pain in the ass to configure what you want on the Start page, and arranging the tiles in the order I want is incredibly frustrating since they seem to follow some mysterious auto-flow pattern that makes me want to scream.
Click to expand...

Yeah I dont get why I'm having to suddenly now having to use the keyboard to get around my PC.

I use the mouse to navigate around and only use the keyboard when I want to enter any text. This doesnt work with 8.
 
Nice to see you manipulate your customers.

I would have to imagine that what your doing is against the TOS of Windows 8.

Regardless thats some shady business your running.
 
daglesj said:
Yeah I dont get why I'm having to suddenly now having to use the keyboard to get around my PC.

I use the mouse to navigate around and only use the keyboard when I want to enter any text. This doesnt work with 8.
Click to expand...

You don't need the keyboard to get around. Using only the mouse works way better in Win8 then it ever did in Win7 as you can with just the mouse open the Start menu, alt tab and close programs including Metro apps. Just stick the mouse in each of the corners (right in there) then things pop up.

I get it that people don't like Win8 purely on how it's presented but I've been amazed at the fountain of misinformation flowing. It's the same 'amazement' feeling I get reading how Apple is revelotionary when they add such amazing features like cut and paste and how everybody perks up and says, "ooooh they are awesome and shiny!"

And before anybody claims I've been in the kool aid cabinet, I'm not fully thrilled with the pastel world yet after using Win8 for a week I find it head and shoulders above Win7 (which I love) for using the mouse to get around and the tech updates. I've said in another thread that doing what I do I am in the desktop mode for 99% of the time (as I would imagine any other [H] reader) and it's as if it's Win7 SP2. Disk accessing is faster (even shows graphs when copying), plugging in my USB headset for Skype and BF3 vent doesn't take a minute anymore it activates in a second and all my stuff off Steam/Origin run the same as 7.

Oh well, off my soapbox. Nobody will bother giving what I said a second thought as everybody's mind was maid up in the first 10 seconds.
 
iroc409 said:
Is that measure "most Windows 8 computing platforms in the corporate world"?

Hehe ;)

The place I work is just rolling out Windows 7 and Office 2010 in a couple months. Thank goodness! I rather like the office ribbon, once you find out where things are. Not sold on the new start screen though, I think it's an abomination. I need to install it and try it though.
Click to expand...

I think it was by market capitalisation but just had a look and a few others are above it. :)

I'd say I hate the ribbon but I have grown used to it. Still dont like the real estate it costs you at the top of the screen and screens have tended to grow sideways more than height (though I suppose you can swivel... never tried moving the ribbon but I guess you can't). Not sure whether it really has had any great productivity gains (for me) though and surely that was the whole reason behind it.
 
Ur_Mom said:
They are trying not to segment the different platforms. But, like Apple, that is what they NEED to do. A desktop OS makes a shitty mobile OS (Windows Mobile with Start button and small menus). A mobile OS makes a shitty desktop OS. I like Metro, but not on the desktop. Kind of like I that short skirt on Scarlett Johannson. It's ok, but I'd rather the skirt be on the floor.... Ok, no relation. Just a great mental image.
Click to expand...

You obviously had multiple things going on there :)
 
daglesj said:
Yeah I dont get why I'm having to suddenly now having to use the keyboard to get around my PC.

I use the mouse to navigate around and only use the keyboard when I want to enter any text. This doesnt work with 8.
Click to expand...

I am at a loss of words at this point.
 
Numan said:
And before anybody claims I've been in the kool aid cabinet, I'm not fully thrilled with the pastel world yet after using Win8 for a week I find it head and shoulders above Win7 (which I love) for using the mouse to get around and the tech updates. I've said in another thread that doing what I do I am in the desktop mode for 99% of the time (as I would imagine any other [H] reader) and it's as if it's Win7 SP2. Disk accessing is faster (even shows graphs when copying), plugging in my USB headset for Skype and BF3 vent doesn't take a minute anymore it activates in a second and all my stuff off Steam/Origin run the same as 7.

Oh well, off my soapbox. Nobody will bother giving what I said a second thought as everybody's mind was maid up in the first 10 seconds.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are in the estimated 50% camp that likes it. Great, I'm not taking that away from you. But that means 50% of people HATE it. Does any company really want to push a product out there that half of their customers hate?
 
thedocta45 said:
Nice to see you manipulate your customers.

I would have to imagine that what your doing is against the TOS of Windows 8.

Regardless thats some shady business your running.
Click to expand...

Whats wrong with showing folks a future product thats out there in the public domain.

It's not a secret. They can install it themselves and see. If MS doesn't want business customers to see it then they shouldn't put it out there.

All I'm doing is putting the machine in front of them and then going for a coffee, leaving them to it.

It's my job to keep my customers up to date on what's going on. These are ordinary bread & butter joe user customers. The feedback I'm getting when I get back to them isn't good at all. I am concerned because I cant put a positive spin on it.
 
Numan said:
You don't need the keyboard to get around. Using only the mouse works way better in Win8 then it ever did in Win7 as you can with just the mouse open the Start menu, alt tab and close programs including Metro apps. Just stick the mouse in each of the corners (right in there) then things pop up.
Click to expand...

Thats the problem. There are no obvious clues as to what to do to get stuff to work.

With the current menu system there are breadcrumbs and cues that tell you where stuff is.

Whats telling me I have to click in a corner on nothing for something to happen?

Yes sure I could look up a tutorial I guess but I haven't had to do that since Windows 95 and that was only to find Explorer/File Manager. The rest was easy.

Plus the big corps wont want to spend time and money having their staff getting to learn a new way of getting around. It's going to crucify MS.

I can currently move a 85 year old granny and her old XP machine over to Windows 7 by just telling her about the Libraries instead of My Docs, Fave apps in the Taskbar and the shutdown is slightly different. Thats about it covered for the essentials of 7 over XP. Takes about 10 minutes tops.

Now as for 8/Metro........
 
Well, with regards to the OP's method of selling W7 machines, only he/she can decide if that is the right way to do business or not, since they will have to live with themselves afterwards :) Personally, I think it is BRILLIANT, mainly because I agree that a mobile OS makes for a shitty Desktop OS & vice versa, his/her customers will spared the nightmare of getting caught up in another one of M$'s unfinished debacles :D

Having used windblows since the DOS days and every version since then, I can tell you that IMHO, W7 is by & large the best overall version to date. OF course, after the clusterf**ks that were ME, 2000 and Vista, M$ needed to get one right for a change.

Last week, I installed W8 CP on a spare machine just to see what all the fuss is about, and have been using it heavily since then. And again, IMHO, I must say that I am NOT impressed. It is at least, if not more than, completely FU'd as those earlier releases I mentioned above :eek)

If they would have just kept the low-level stuff the same & concentrated on improving the UI, that would have been great. But they didn't, and once again they have managed to screw up things that did NOT need fixin..... About the ONLY thing I can see that they did right is to FINALLY get rid of most of the legacy crap code that acted like the plague in every version since W95........


And yes, I know Apple is trying to do the same thing, as I use Macs regularly too. Whether or not they are sucessful remains to be seen with the forthcoming OS X v10.8 & 10.9...........
 
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I do like the new Task Manager, so it's not all bad.

But thats not a compelling enough reason to change for me or my customers.
 
maw said:
Yes, you are in the estimated 50% camp that likes it. Great, I'm not taking that away from you. But that means 50% of people HATE it. Does any company really want to push a product out there that half of their customers hate?
Click to expand...

Hate based on actual usage or perception of things? Most of the complaints are all about how people can't use their current x86 programs because of the start screen but yes you can. And they act exactly the same as Win7. The only reason somebody would make such a claim is because they never tried it but saw lots of people complain about it and want to be on the cool bandwagon.
 
Numan said:
Hate based on actual usage or perception of things? Most of the complaints are all about how people can't use their current x86 programs because of the start screen but yes you can. And they act exactly the same as Win7. The only reason somebody would make such a claim is because they never tried it but saw lots of people complain about it and want to be on the cool bandwagon.
Click to expand...

Does it really matter in either case? From a marketing perspective, once the momentum builds and people start hopping on the hate bandwagon in droves, for reasons that are either real or imagined, your product is still doomed.

A 50% "hate it" 6-8 months before product launch should be setting off all kinds of alarm bells at MS. I hope they are paying attention.
 
daglesj said:
Thats the problem. There are no obvious clues as to what to do to get stuff to work.

With the current menu system there are breadcrumbs and cues that tell you where stuff is.

Whats telling me I have to click in a corner on nothing for something to happen?

Yes sure I could look up a tutorial I guess but I haven't had to do that since Windows 95 and that was only to find Explorer/File Manager. The rest was easy.
Click to expand...

They are 'easy' because you've known about them for 17 years. Most people still don't know Win+L locks your system or that the Windows key is a combo of Esc + Ctrl. There's no cues for things like that, you find out. These new cues aren't as hidden, just literally move the cursor into the corner, stick it in there don't hover around or click, you'll see the visual pop up. I posted in another thread how to alt tab with just the mouse and a few keyboard shortcuts, I didn't read about them, I played with the OS for an hour. I am not a smart person so I can only assume most people don't try anything out, they just look at it for 10 seconds and say oh it's crap and run with it. As somebody at the workplace that is constantly telling coworkers the same simple tasks it gets on my nerves when people don't attempt anything yet complain to me all day about it :D



daglesj said:
Plus the big corps wont want to spend time and money having their staff getting to learn a new way of getting around. It's going to crucify MS.

I can currently move a 85 year old granny and her old XP machine over to Windows 7 by just telling her about the Libraries instead of My Docs, Fave apps in the Taskbar and the shutdown is slightly different. Thats about it covered for the essentials of 7 over XP. Takes about 10 minutes tops.
Click to expand...

In the middle of this reply I had to leave my desk to help a coworker save a PDF she was looking at in the Adobe Reader plugin in IE. It took a couple of minutes to explain how clicking the disk icon is the same as in the Reader program itself yet she argued with me that it doesn't work. Since we're stuck with XP SP3 am I to blame XP for being crap and making everything so different and difficult to figure out? Of course not, she's an idiot. My point is lots of people are idiots with no patience to figure anything out. You can't tell me if came back next Monday and had OSX or Win7 everything would be perfect? Hell no, Adobe still has the same disk save icon!

As for Granny, if she can learn about the Taskbar pinned concept then why cannot most other knowledgeable computer users? Especially if you login to Win8 and click Desktop you're looking at those pinned taskbar icons? You're only locked into the Start menu (and that's ALL IT IS) if you're on an ARM CPU. I wished Granny was my coworker and not this lady arguing with me about the disk icon.

My Friday-lax day at work ramblings are less of the likability of Win8 and more about how people are stubborn for any minute detail, makes me wonder how many people don't crap their pants if they go to a new place because the floor layout is different from they way they moan about a toolbar in a different place.

Let's go back to DOS!
 
The two thing that many Windows 8 critics are forgetting:

1. New devices with touch screens
2. Metro apps

I guarantee that tons of people will start seeing Metro apps, things that look really cool and see touchscreen laptops and tablets and then hear that all of the stuff they do on the Windows they know still works and say "I want that!"

There are going to be thousands and thousands and thousands of Metro apps coming out each and every month and some of them are just going to be amazing, even with keyboard and mouse driven machines.

No matter how you look at Windows 8 an accurate assessment of it without seeing the next generation of hardware and the next generation of software, i.e. Metro apps, simply isn't possible. The future will determine the success of Windows 8, not the past.
 
heatlesssun said:
The two thing that many Windows 8 critics are forgetting:

1. New devices with touch screens
2. Metro apps

I guarantee that tons of people will start seeing Metro apps, things that look really cool and see touchscreen laptops and tablets and then hear that all of the stuff they do on the Windows they know still works and say "I want that!"

There are going to be thousands and thousands and thousands of Metro apps coming out each and every month and some of them are just going to be amazing, even with keyboard and mouse driven machines.

No matter how you look at Windows 8 an accurate assessment of it without seeing the next generation of hardware and the next generation of software, i.e. Metro apps, simply isn't possible. The future will determine the success of Windows 8, not the past.
Click to expand...

Ah you mean Windows Tablets?

In that case I say good luck to the dozen or so that buy one. :D

Bit late for that really. Zune ahoy! (and yes I was a Zune user so I know what its like)

Metro, fine for phones but really keep it an option for desktops. Let folks decide if they want to immerse themselves in the UI. Thats all we are asking here.
 
maw said:
Does it really matter in either case? From a marketing perspective, once the momentum builds and people start hopping on the hate bandwagon in droves, for reasons that are either real or imagined, your product is still doomed.

A 50% "hate it" 6-8 months before product launch should be setting off all kinds of alarm bells at MS. I hope they are paying attention.
Click to expand...

I guess you're right, it doesn't matter because people were on the hate band wagon well before they saw it and nothing will change their minds.

Too bad MS will have to settle on it's continue sales of Win7 to corps (I'm on XP here at work, they won't wait for the latest they might update to 7 next year because of planned budgets) and the ludicrus piles of money all of its other businesses make like Sharepoint. Don't worry, they can afford a bad perception product like Win8.
 
heatlesssun said:
The two thing that many Windows 8 critics are forgetting:
1. New devices with touch screens
2. Metro apps
Click to expand...

Very few critics are actually saying they hate touch or Metro specifically. In fact, most of them readily admit it is a superior UI for touch devices. What the vast majority are saying is that the touch/metro paradigm simply does not work well in a non-touch desktop environment.
 
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