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Windows 8 Consumer Preview to be released 02/29/2012
- Thread starter heatlesssun
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Wow, what a confusing mess. I can just imagine the support calls we're going to get when someone accidentally starts a full-screen app that blows up on their entire screen, and they can't get out of it because there's no close button that has been in most GUIs in computer operating systems since the mid-80's. Even I had some trouble with that. I ended up accidentally pinning IE to the edge of the screen and then I could get it into full-screen mode again... Graphic cues are non-existent. You just have to click and randomly and move your cursor around to discover hidden click-spots. It reminds me of "pixel hunting" in old adventure games.
Is there any other way to bring up the start-menu equivalent ("Apps") than to type an "A" from the start-screen and then erase it?
I also had to use BCDEdit to enable safe-mode, which is definitely a first. Very user-friendly...Not just BCDEdit itself, but actually *finding* the command prompt in the first place.. that alone took 10 minutes of trial and error+googling. In Win7 it's Windows-key+cmd+enter
Is there any other way to bring up the start-menu equivalent ("Apps") than to type an "A" from the start-screen and then erase it?
I also had to use BCDEdit to enable safe-mode, which is definitely a first. Very user-friendly...Not just BCDEdit itself, but actually *finding* the command prompt in the first place.. that alone took 10 minutes of trial and error+googling. In Win7 it's Windows-key+cmd+enter
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The dark theme is great. But not being able to make out icons is not. They're going for a Metro look and need some color or visual flair. It's at the other extreme right now.
thecrafter
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nvm
Winkey Q I think is the one you want. Try winKey and all the different letters to see what each ones does. Some don't do any thing. Want to say q is the apps search, f is file search, I brings up the setting screen,
wonderfield
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Apparently they did a usability study on the icons and found the new ones no less identiable than the old ones. A dubious claim, I think.
My advice: learn the shortcuts. You generally only need to know a handful: build; debug; insert/clear breakpoints and your debug step keys. You'll be more productive with them in time.
I find it dubious too, seeing decades of standard design practices have proven otherwise. Colors have meaning, red indicates "stop", "alert", "danger", "bad". Green indicates "OK", "good", "go'. Grey indicates "unused", "paused".. And these colors make icons work more effectively at a glance. This is the kind of stuff that comes out of decision by committee, or decision driven by the biggest ego.
chinesepiratefood
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I don't think I'll be asking friends and family to try this though. It has taken them years to get used to 'Start->My Documents/Music', which is logical and makes sense, and there is no equivalent in Windows 8. Years of muscle memory and habits all trashed at the whim of a designer.
And btw, the decision to remove all color from Visual Studio 2011 and make it all gray is causing just as much outrage among developersAt least Microsoft decided to make *everyone* angry.
You can pin all of those to the start screen.
Also, I much prefer the look of Visual Studio 11 to 2010.
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chinesepiratefood
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Care to explain why?
I don't know. I hope windows 8 is here soon, I don't like having a "try for so many days os". I kind of like the win8 desktop but when trying to put an "ie" icon on the desktop is so difficult. The metro interface is there for what reason? so Ms can make money on the apps, I like that idea that someone here put, why not keep the desktop and having the metro interface on the desktop?
Yeah, a larger start menu makes sense. The old one just gets smaller and smaller as DPI goes up. Also, having it in a corner of the screen doesn't make sense for the central role it plays when using a computer.
But why does the new start menu have to take over my entire desktop like some computer game? Surely there's room for the taskbar and a few other UI elements on a 22" monitor? The transition between the full-screen Metro interface and the classic interface is extremely jarring. Much more so than the criticized transition between Aero and Classic that was frequent with legacy applications in the early days of Vista.
Also, what's up with all the hidden click spots and hot corners? I thought Metro was supposed to be clear and easy to understand...
What if your city decided to start a new, hidden line on the metro, that you could only access by going into a very specific corner of the platform, were a hatch would open, leading to some hidden stairs down to a secret platform? Clearly it must make more sense to give the line a new name e.g. "The Blue Line" and put up large signs everywhere?
harsaphes
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[QUOTEWhat if your city decided to start a new, hidden line on the metro, that you could only access by going into a very specific corner of the platform, were a hatch would open, leading to some hidden stairs down to a secret platform? Clearly it must make more sense to give the line a new name e.g. "The Blue Line" and put up large signs everywhere?[/QUOTE]
I would prefer to ride the hidden line.
I would prefer to ride the hidden line.
D
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Right click in the lower left hand corner, get the "Power User" menu with all the good stuff, including two options for a Command Prompt, one basic and one with Admin privileges.
Of course. How obvious.
Do you also get an achievement for discovering that?
-Achievement unlocked! POWER USER!
What a toy OS
It's like they make useful things hard to discover on purpose.I have to agree that why Microsoft doesn't make it obvious on how to close Metro applications. Who's going to know they can press the Enter key to go to the login screen immediately, or searching immediately from the Start screen? Unless Microsoft has built-in video tutorials that perhaps start automatically when first launching Windows 8, I'd also suspect a lot of support calls once Windows 8 is released to the public.
There are some bugs I've noticed in the Consumer Preview, often if I have another Metro app side by side with IE10 Metro, IE10 becomes unusable and I have to quit it. But that will be fixed without any doubt.
griffinhart
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My opinion on Windiws 8 has not changed since the Developer Preview. On a touch device, it's awesome. The task management features added since the Dev Preview are great and they were needed. Now there is a way to close apps that you don't need running, easily without the task manager.
That said, Windows 8 will not be on my desktop machine. It's too bad, there are a few really nice features not related to the UI that would be nice to have. Metro apps will add no benefit to my productivity, and the new start screen just gets in my way.
That said, Windows 8 will not be on my desktop machine. It's too bad, there are a few really nice features not related to the UI that would be nice to have. Metro apps will add no benefit to my productivity, and the new start screen just gets in my way.
CyberJunk
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all they did was replace the traditional start menu with the metro app screen
when you look at it like this its not so bad. how else would you merge touch devices and desktop pc?
when you look at it like this its not so bad. how else would you merge touch devices and desktop pc?
Hahahahah!!! And after you discover all the secret WinKey combinations you get the UBER USER achievement unlocked, and a special gold medal appears on your Metro Start screen.
chinesepiratefood
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What I can't understand are the people who can't figure out how to open the command prompt....really? How many years has Win + R been the shortcut to "Run"?
Again...nobody is forcing you to use any of the Metro apps. Also, how does the start screen get in your way (besides the fact that it is full screen). Is there some legitimate scenario where the full screen start screen makes it more difficult for you to accomplish a task (one that ISN'T related to not being familiar with the new UI)?
If Microsoft made their OS using that strategy they would have went bankrupt a long time ago.
Again...nobody is forcing you to use any of the Metro apps. Also, how does the start screen get in your way (besides the fact that it is full screen). Is there some legitimate scenario where the full screen start screen makes it more difficult for you to accomplish a task (one that ISN'T related to not being familiar with the new UI)?
If Microsoft made their OS using that strategy they would have went bankrupt a long time ago.
griffinhart
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Keyboard shortcuts are great, but they don't do anything for making an OS easier to use. Discoverability is important.
The full screen aspect is exactly what gets in the way. I'm one of those types that can forget the frist 4 digits of a phone number before getting to the 7th number. I often need to reference something on the screen as I am typing something in serach. Not having the start menu be full screen is a huge benefit to me. Having the Start menu be full screen offers zero benefit to me on a desktop. Not a single benefit. Give me an example where the new Win8 UI will make my life easier.
My decision to not use Win8 on the desktop will have nothing to do with being unfamiliar with the UI. I am an early adopter and change doesn't scare me. I'm just going to stick with something that is CLEARLY a better paradigm for desktop use.
Hell, I am a big MS fan. I even own a couple of Zunes that I love. I've been a convertable tablet user for years and look forward to Win8 on those devices where it will be a benefit.
Time will tell if this strat works for them. I'm betting that windows 8 will do will on tablets, but I am fully expecting it to not do well on non-touch devices.
What MS should have done is simply allowed the normal start menu on the "Windows Desktop" with a hot spot to get back to the metro start menu.
On Touch, you should be able to swap between all open applications, no matter what type of applicaiton. Right now the touch UI only swaps you to the desktop and then you have to manage traditional apps within that location. Having to manage different apps differently is just sloppy.
On the Desktop, you can't see at a glance what non-desktop apps are running. You have to Alt-Tab or swipe to see what metro apps are running.
All Apps should be accessible, metro or not, through both swiping and the task bar. It's needed for consistancy. And consistancy is something that Windows 8 is lacking.
chinesepiratefood
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That is a legitimate complaint, which I have mentioned a few pages ago.
One area the start screen excels at though is for users who frequently use desktop shortcuts to launch all of their programs (pretty much my entire computer-illiterate family). The start screen is actually superior because it allows you to launch additional applications without disrupting the order and arrangement of the windows you currently have open. If you have many windows open what most users will do is minimize every program 1 by 1 and then double click their desktop shortcut. Sure their is Win + D and the bottom right jump to desktop button but few people every use that. Also, while I frequently use Win + D on my home machine, it is less desirable on my work machine with multiple monitors because Win + D will make every monitor go to the desktop which is rarely what I want.
The full screen start screen can allow for far more icons/tiles than you can fit shortcuts on the start menu (without clicking All Programs, which is less efficient than the start screen). The tiles are also easier to find and click (everyone else seemingly argues it is too hard to find and click the "new" missing start button, so I find this as a fair argument)
Also, when you are in the desktop there are NO Metro apps running, they are suspended and their state saved in memory. My guess on the exclusion of any kind of close button (which even if they added, would be slower and less efficient than dragging from the top of the screen) is because Microsoft doesn't WANT you to close Metro apps.
Monkey34
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Well, after my initial dislike, I'm starting to come around a bit. It takes getting used to for sure.
griffinhart
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The current start button accomplishes the same thing. If people are using this method today, making the start menu full screen isn't going to change this behavior.
Fitting all programs,shortcuts, and favorites on in a single place all at once, to me is just cluttered.
That's not actually correct. Some apps suspend. It depends on the app. A metro music app, for example, does not suspend when you are on the desktop.
Also, there is nothing more efficient or faster about dragging from the top downwards to close an app over a close button. Metro Apps themselves still use the Circled X to close panels in the app. Think about it. What makes moving to the top of the screen, click and hold, dragging down, letting go of the mouse button more efficient or quicker than moving to the top right corner and single clicking the close button? Nothing at all.
chinesepiratefood
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Being cluttered is your opinion, but it is no less cluttered than the start menu relative to the amount of space it occupies. Also, with regard to the close button I wasn't clear. A large contingent of users have posted on various Microsoft forums and blogs that they want a close button on the bar that pops up at the bottom when you right click. Obviously if every app had an X at the top right that would be a different story, but once again, I don't think Microsoft wants you to close Metro apps so putting that button there would be very counter-intuitive for their goals.
I can't help but come back to the exact same point though. Everyone here is so hell bent on making Windows 8 as much like the Windows 7 desktop experience as possible, why even bother running metro apps if that is the case? Metro and desktop environments can EASILY become sand-boxed from each other, and the fact that they can coexist means desktop, laptop, and tablet users of Windows 8 can have as much or little control over their environment as they want.
griffinhart
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But MS is allowing the closing of Metro Apps. The ability is actually needed simply for task managment purposes.
On the desktop, I will not run metro apps. Why? because limiting myself to two apps on the screen at once, (one taking 25% of the screen, the second the rest) does not suit my needs. Metro apps, so far, are a massively inefficient use of screen realestate on larger higher resolution monitors. I want my desktop to use the Windows 7 Desktop experience simply because it's a superior paradigm for a desktop workflow.
For Tablets and small screen devices, I like windows 8 a lot. Metro and Metro style apps make a lot of sense here. And it's great that I can still run my desktop apps on these devices. I will use it on my Convertable Laptop and on my Asus Tablet. But, again, not for my desktop machine. I will use a product that I feel is more conducive to my computing needs.
wonderfield
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I'm a bit blown away that the pinball app can run dive below the 120 fps mark at times on my mid-range gaming PC, without any form of anti-aliasing. This kind of thing should be incredibly simple to optimize for on the rendering side, so I can't help but wonder what's going on behind the scenes that yields such terrible performance.
If this is as good as it gets with respect to performance for 3D apps in Metro, in a near best-case-scenario with respect to the simplicity of rendering optimization, there is something quite severely wrong with this platform.
If this is as good as it gets with respect to performance for 3D apps in Metro, in a near best-case-scenario with respect to the simplicity of rendering optimization, there is something quite severely wrong with this platform.
Again, you're missing what so many people are complaining about.
Metro on the desktop brings NOTHING to the table in terms of ease of use or efficiency. In no way does it make anything naturally easier.
1) A new interface should NOT be a matter of "once you get used to it", or "you just need to learn all these cryptic, hidden tricks", it should be naturally INTUITIVE. I should not have to hunt and guess what's going on, I should not have to memorize a bunch of new techniques, these things should be immediately, impression-ably, and unforgettably obvious.
2) A new interface should be of a fluid and seam-less design. I should not have to use completely different behaviors and techniques when I go from one part of the system to another, ALL parts should share similar behavior.
How jarring would it be if you went to a bookstore and one shelf is listed alphabetically by author from left to right, but the next shelf is alphabetically by title from top to bottom? And when you inquired why the shelves were so inconsistent, some hipster clerk simply dismissed your questions with "You'll get used to it, unless you're an idiot".
Look at your local bookstore, your car, TV listings, the controls on your appliances. What do they all have in common? Consistency.
These kinds of glaring inconsistencies are disruptive to your expectations and workflow. And no, the answer isn't, "Once you get used to it". For God's sake this is a multi-billion dollar company designing a major piece of software, they can do better than this. Any competent design firm will tell you this is not the way to design anything.
They changed the desktop enough that it's unintuitive for older users, and metro doesn't have enough functionality to be a complete replacement on a desktop PC with older applications. There's no improvement for desktop users here. They either need to stick with a more traditional desktop layout, or dump it completely and make metro WORK as a complete desktop replacement with more functionality and customization.
thecrafter
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Has anyone experienced any crashes/freezing with IE? Thinking of installing this on my laptop (don't really do much of anything other than browsing the net and watching movies/music in WMP)
As I read here, everyone claims to be a know it all. That's fine, and I'm sure many of you do know something more than someone else.
Now try to look at Windows 8 from the perspective of a totally ignorant, new user.
Now how do you like Windows 8 from that perspective?
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Now try to look at Windows 8 from the perspective of a totally ignorant, new user.
Now how do you like Windows 8 from that perspective?
.
GushpinBob
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BTW for anyone running the 32-bit version of the Consumer Preview, have you tried installing any ancient software that use 16-bit executables? I'm doing so out of curiosity but NTVDM keeps crashing (it also looks like Microsoft keeps it disabled by default). I guess that's now one less advantage that 32-bit has over 64-bit versions of Windows.
And for anyone that's going to reply to my post along the lines of "OMGUSEVIRTUALMACHINESORDOSBOXFORYOURTROGLODYTESOFTWAREUNOOBTHATSWHATITSFOR": Please, spare me the bullshit. Yes, I already know that you can use emulation or virtual machines to run 16-bit software and run most of it pretty well. I'm not stupid. I'm just experimenting with how far Windows has come over the past 20+ years while maintaining its renowned status in application compatibility.
And for anyone that's going to reply to my post along the lines of "OMGUSEVIRTUALMACHINESORDOSBOXFORYOURTROGLODYTESOFTWAREUNOOBTHATSWHATITSFOR": Please, spare me the bullshit. Yes, I already know that you can use emulation or virtual machines to run 16-bit software and run most of it pretty well. I'm not stupid. I'm just experimenting with how far Windows has come over the past 20+ years while maintaining its renowned status in application compatibility.
Personally, I don't like it.
Talk has it, that there will be several different versions of the OS when released, more than what's available w/Windows 7, w/each having some features that another doesn't.
Myself, I would like a clean and efficient one, w/no absolutely useless bells and whistles. One for both seasoned gamers, and running extreme calculations, like Folding@Home for example.
Stop supporting obsolete hardware, like single core, 32 bit processors, and address, and utilize multicore, 64 bit ones.
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Talk has it, that there will be several different versions of the OS when released, more than what's available w/Windows 7, w/each having some features that another doesn't.
Myself, I would like a clean and efficient one, w/no absolutely useless bells and whistles. One for both seasoned gamers, and running extreme calculations, like Folding@Home for example.
Stop supporting obsolete hardware, like single core, 32 bit processors, and address, and utilize multicore, 64 bit ones.
.
no. you think the people moving from DOS to win 3.1 thought it was seamless and didn't have to learn anything? window 3 series to win 95? This happens every time there is an advance. People hate change. they resist change. then they eventually embrace it. this will be no different.
RealityCrunch
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The transition between two new OS versions isn't what was being mentioned as not being seamless.