Windows 8 Beta

[jeremyshaw]

where do installed app shortcuts go? i installed a game (fallout3, still trying to get through it lol) and other than insert the cd and use autorun/goto explorer and select the .exe, i cant seem to find the shortcut anywhere in metro

it should be on the far right.

 

[danman]

is there media center in this build?

nope

 

[Ravynmagi]

Will you hate me if I used Windows 8 for 5 minutes and say that Metro feels like Windows for the Ultimate Dummy?

Maybe if this was on an iPad, but seriously on my desktop computer? I don't like where this is going.

I would say you probably haven't given it enough time. It's probably the biggest Windows UI change since Windows 95.

And I notice the more I'm using the more I'm kinda liking it. I used the regedit to turn off the Metro Start screen and get the old style Start menu back, but ended up going back to Metro, I think it could be pretty cool.

I do like that Microsoft has given the user a choice. I just hope they make that choice a little more accessible instead of having to do a regedit to get to it.

 

[insert]

how do u close any window on this thing?

i like it. but i think many people won't, it is just too radical.

and how do i disable the start screen?

 

[chinesepiratefood]

It has only taken me less than a day of use, and I am now officially a huge fan of everything windows 8. People claiming you can't be productive in a business environment with the new ui are just blowing smoke out their ass.

how do u close any window on this thing?

i like it. but i think many people won't, it is just too radical.

and how do i disable the start screen?

1. You don't close metro apps currently, they go into the suspended state and then from what I understand windows will determine when to close them to free its ram up for another task.

2. You don't disable the start screen.

 

[heatlesssun]

It has only taken me less than a day of use, and I am now officially a huge fan of everything windows 8. People claiming you can't be productive in a business environment with the new ui are just blowing smoke out their ass.

Couldn't agree more. Yes, the Start Screen takes up the whole screen, so what? Functionally it works very much like the Start Menu using a keyboard and mouse but like the Start Menu it comes up, you perform your action and that goes away, just like the Start Menu. Yes it takes a little getting used to because its obviously quite different but the essence of how the Start Menu has worked for years is still there.

It would be nice if could scroll vertically and there need to be tile folders or groups but the basics of the Start Menu are very damn slick.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

The new start screen has also illustrated how little I used the start menu. Search is the only function I really ever used it for, which can be done exactly the same way.

The only thing I don't like about the start screen search is that you have to specify if you want to show app/file/settings results, it requires an extra click often times. It would be nice if you could choose to display all of them and then it would be separated by region like the W7 start menu.

 

[MrGuvernment]

i think alot of people will hate windows 8 like they did vista, too much change too quick, i can see how for tablets this will work great but for a desktop, so far i am hating the metro thing, but i am used to windows 7 and will give it some time to get used to for now...

 

[heatlesssun]

The only thing I don't like about the start screen search is that you have to specify if you want to show app/file/settings results, it requires an extra click often times. It would be nice if you could choose to display all of them and then it would be separated by region like the W7 start menu.

+1. I'm pretty sure that there will be a number of tweaks here if they've not already been done and just didn't make it into these release.

 

[heatlesssun]

i think alot of people will hate windows 8 like they did vista, too much change too quick, i can see how for tablets this will work great but for a desktop, so far i am hating the metro thing, but i am used to windows 7 and will give it some time to get used to for now...

While I agree with this sentiment the thing is that I think that this is a very short sighted way to look it. Its either a tablet OR and PC when I think the way it's going to be is that many devices will be a tablet AND a PC. The power of Windows 8 is that it can power one device that does it all and it's up to the indivdual how that want to use their machine and they don't have to buy a PC or a tablet and sacifice anything buying a Windows 8 tablet.

Pricing will be the interesting thing here. Right now devices that really can do it all like the Samsung 7 are $1,000+ dollars which really isn't high when you compare it laptop of similar specs but it is a lot for a tablet. But then there will be ARM devices which should be a lot cheaper and have better battery life but then won't quite be do it all devices.

 

[bigdogchris]

A few of my thoughts...

• During installation, the repair options have changed. They added a refresh PC to reinstall Windows, and a reset option, that sets it back to default.
• Windows Defender is installed by default, like expected. However, it now looks like MSE (and I expect it is completely identical) and includes Antivirus definitions. I wonder how Microsoft tis going to get around the laws preventing them from including AV.
• I can't imagine Windows 8 not shipping with an on/off toggle for Metro. No desktop user with a mouse is going to want to use this start menu. Microsoft said that Metro was optional but I see no way to turn it off except with the registry hack. But when you do that, you lose the new task manager and such, which is a bummer.
• Also, when you go into sleep mode, you have to drag the screen up to unlock. Again, I can't see this being the default for desktops.
• Overall I think that Metro will be great for tablets. I just can't see people biting for desktops.
• I think it's cool that you can use your Live ID as your user account, rather than create a local one. I'm curious how it's going to integrate with Active Directory. Imagine IT managing all user accounts from the web? I see it.
• Oh, and IE10 has a built in spell checker

 

[Tawnos]

A few of my thoughts...

• Windows Defender is installed by default, like expected. However, it now looks like MSE (and I expect it is completely identical) and includes Antivirus definitions. I wonder how Microsoft tis going to get around the laws preventing them from including AV.

What law is that?

 

[bigdogchris]

What law is that?

I shouldn't have said law. What I mean is with all the troubles they have in Europe by including some software, like browsers, Microsoft doesn't want to or can't include AV because they don't want to get sued by 3rd party vendors.

 

[heatlesssun]

[*]I can't imagine Windows 8 not shipping with an on/off toggle for Metro. No desktop user with a mouse is going to want to use this start menu. Microsoft said that Metro was optional but I see no way to turn it off except with the registry hack. But when you do that, you lose the new task manager and such, which is a bummer.

I think this going to work out like the Ribbon. People bitched about it but mainly because it was different, not that it didn't actually work well. I'm having no issues with the Start Screen with touch or keyboard and mouse and why I think it's pretty cool as use Windows tablets daily.

 

[Andrmgic]

I shouldn't have said law. What I mean is with all the troubles they have in Europe by including some software, like browsers, Microsoft doesn't want to or can't include AV because they don't want to get sued by 3rd party vendors.

I agree, the EU is probably going to raise a big stink over this.. Maybe they just won't include it for the EU..

Just like they used to have versions of windows without media center specifically for Europe.

 

[maverick786us]

Does Windows 8 something to speed up our work?
When I moved from Windows XP & 7 there were so many features that made end user do smart work

Example
1) In start menu the feature of "Search Program Files" where we can simply type the name of program instead of scrolling the entire list
2) In file open dialog box we can simply search for a particular file and open it instead of finding it in entire list.

So what is new in Windows 8 for technical users to speed up work?

 

[cold&damp]

Does Windows 8 something to speed up our work?
When I moved from Windows XP & 7 there were so many features that made end user do smart work

Example
1) In start menu the feature of "Search Program Files" where we can simply type the name of program instead of scrolling the entire list
2) In file open dialog box we can simply search for a particular file and open it instead of finding it in entire list.

So what is new in Windows 8 for technical users to speed up work?

have you actually tried it?

 

[maverick786us]

have you actually tried it?

Don't have a spare PC. But before trying myself I was asking for your openion

 

[Andrmgic]

Don't have a spare PC. But before trying myself I was asking for your openion

The ribbon makes several explorer tasks easier.. like displaying hidden files, showing or hiding file extensions, changing icon sizes, resizing columns, etc. The recycle bin can now be made a "favorite" location.. and it retains its right-click context actions for emptying, etc.

I was hating it before I actually got my hands on it.. at this point I think it makes more sense in explorer than it does in Office.

As for the new start UI, you gain tiles.. which are like widgets that can pull in data from the web and it still has the search feature, though it has been refined by category of results.

I hit the window key and start typing just like I did before in windows vista and 7, except now I know it is going to show me applications first.. so I won't hit enter and open an e-mail or something by default.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I shouldn't have said law. What I mean is with all the troubles they have in Europe by including some software, like browsers, Microsoft doesn't want to or can't include AV because they don't want to get sued by 3rd party vendors.

Microsoft will do what they have always done since.

They will release the normal version, and the "N" version. Named like "Windows 7 Home Premium N."

The "N" version will not have WMP, IE, etc. It will cost the same to OEMs as the normal version.

For the fee of 2usd, OEMs can install a pack with all that, and MSE + Windows Live Essentials.



Brilliant, say you?

 

[ASIA911]

I'm beginning to love it. I love the whole idea with placing the mouse to the left screen and swipe to the next screen.

 

[griffinhart]

Ok, I have been playing around with Windows 8 on my Asus Tablet for a full day now. I have both praise and scathing criticism for it. I’ll preface all this stating the obvious. This is an early version. Clearly, there are lots of missing parts, especially with customization and basic app availability (for the Metro UI).

Windows 8 is a step forward when thinking about tablet and phone computing. It’s attractive, snappy, and functional. What makes it awesome for this type of computing is:

-Great looking UI, that holds the promise of a lot of customization.
-Excellent touch capability for easy switching between Metro Apps.
-Extremely solid Pen support for those that want and need it.
-Fantastic improvements for the onscreen keyboard/pen input.
-The simple fact that it can also run Legacy Windows Apps.

Unfortunately, it’s also a huge step backwards when dealing with a traditional desktop computer. At least in its current state.

The Windows Desktop is treated like a poor relation in this release. Traditional Windows Apps are relegated to being “sub windows” with the new scheme. Metro apps all get their own “frame” for lack of a better term. That is, you can swap to each metro app by swiping from the left. But All traditional Windows apps are contained in a single “windows desktop” frame no matter how many apps you are running. The result is that your apps are segregated. You manage your new Metro apps via the new interface, and all your traditional apps via the taskbar in the “windows desktop” frame. This means there is no single mechanism to swap between all your running apps, other than the task manager, which isn’t designed for that purpose. It is, in reality, a pain to manage. I can only hope that they can make a change where each individual Windows App can be swiped to on their own, metro or not.

Not all applications need to be full screen or large. Take the calculator as an example. Under Metro, when they add one in, it can be sized as one of the two windows sharing the screen, but, on systems with resolution widths of 1200 pixels or less, like my Asus Tablet, my HP Slate, my HP TM-2, It wouldn’t be able to be on the screen at the same time since they can only support a single full screen app being displayed at any given time.

Personally I feel full screen apps on the desktop are a throwback to the DOS days. The only time I run full screen apps are when playing games, and watching movies. That’s not even 100% true. I often leave a video running in a window, off to the side, when doing other things on the machine. When I game in the MMO of my choice, I played in a windowed mode and run several other apps at the same time in other windows to support what I am doing in game. Browsers, Ventrilo, Parse programs…

One thing being said over and over on any Windows 8 discussion is how it is a “Touch First” OS, but great for traditional mouse and keyboard. While they are workable with a mouse and keyboard, it really feels like an afterthought. It’s like considering Windows 7 as “Mouse and Keyboard First” but great for touch computing. Don’t get me wrong, Win7 can be tweaked to be fairly reasonable as a touch OS with 3rd party apps and many tweaks to scroll bars and other behaviors, but It never was as touch friendly as IOS, or Android.

Win8 is completely reversing this. It’s great for touch, but not great for mouse and keyboard. This divide is made worse by inconsistencies in design. For example. To access the “charms” with a touch screen you swipe from the right side of the screen, inwards. This is how you get back to the “start screen” to run more apps. With a mouse, there is absolutely no interaction with the right side edge of the screen. Instead, you access a completely separate set of charms by hovering your mouse at the bottom of the screen to the far left. (Roughly where the start button resides by default in other versions of windows) I can think of dozens of example of where using a mouse in Win8 just feels awkward, but This post is going to be long enough.

Keeping on to the Awkward theme. While this may not bother those who have not used touch based windows machines in past, it has been a pain for me. Many of the touch gestures we did in Windows7 no longer work in Windows 8. In Win7, a right click is accomplished in two ways. First you can just touch and hold a spot for a couple of seconds. When you remove your finger from the screen, the right click dialog box appears. Win8 works this way too. But under Win7, you can also touch the object with a finger and then tap a second finger on the screen to pop up the same window. For me, it’s quicker and a bit more natural. Win8 does not do this.

In Win7’s Explorer, and Internet explorer, I can go back a page by a swiping gesture in the window. A gesture I use a lot when surfing on the Asus Tablet. This no longer works in either the Metro Browser, or the “Traditional” version of the browser.

Let me describe one of my biggest annoyances with Win8. Let me also acknowledge that this may change or be addressed by 3rd party software. The browser. I’m not talking about bugs, or plug ins. I’m talking about the short comings of IE10 within Windows 8. It is kind of a perfect storm of why Windows 8 isn’t great for the desktop. I also want to mention that I am an IE9 fan. It’s my preferred browser, and IE10, looks to be a browser that I will run on Windows 7 when it is released.

The fact that Metro is the primary UI for windows means the primary browser is a mobile browser. It is, in comparison to the traditional browser, of limited function. If you have used a browser on an iPad, or Android phone/tablet, It’s nothing you haven’t seen before. While using touch, I find it to be pretty capable, though having several behaviors I wish it didn’t have as well as some missing features.

One of the behaviors I mean is the fact that it always comes back to the last page you had open when you re-open it. I don’t like this particular feature, and it’s not an option that I can change at the moment. I much prefer it to open to my set default home page after being opened.

The Metro version of IE doesn’t really lend itself to the type of browsing I do. I make heavy use of tabs, new browser windows, jump lists and favorites on my computer. Using HardOCP as an example: I’ll start by visiting the main page and glancing the news, opening links in separate tabs in the background to read once I finish going through the main page. I can’t do this in the metro version of the browser without having to follow the link to a new page, then swiping the top of the screen to select the original browser page so I can continue. Again, there is no way to alter this behavior currently.

I also routinely have two or more browser windows side by side when researching stuff for easy comparisons at a glance. There is no way to do this on the Metro version of IE10. There is no “home” button, or favorites list in the Metro version of IE10. Yes, I can do all this in the “windows desktop” but then you’re managing a subset tabs in a subset of windows in another window removed from the primary UI.

The point of all this?

For touch devices like Tablets, it’s wonderful and makes using your device efficient. But for desktop use, it’s very limiting, awkward and horribly inefficient. Metro style full screen apps aren’t great for true multi-tasking and multi-referencing material. Metro style apps are what Microsoft is pushing, but they work differently enough from traditional Windows applications where they don’t mingle well in this style of UI.

For Desktop, and non-touch machines, Windows 7 is incredibly efficient, flexible and powerful from a workflow standpoint. Win8’s metro UI is less efficient and flexible for the same usage. Win8’s Desktop may let you do the same tasks, but given its subservience to the Metro UI, it’s not nearly as efficient.

As I originally said, this is still very early, but, MS needs to give users a way to completely avoid the Metro UI of they chose to not use these new apps.

I honestly can’t understand the industries fascination with full screen apps lately. They only make sense in cases where it needs to be immersive, like in the case of a good game, or with limited screen real-estate as in the case with Phones and Tablets. But on desktops with 24” screens, many times two or more, Full screen apps are a terrible way to compute.

 

[Dmitri]

When did MS become obsessed with UI (that I disable instantly after install) and forget about the underlying technologies. Give me a new file system or something, not turn my desktop into a giant cellphone.

 

[griffinhart]

When did MS become obsessed with UI (that I disable instantly after install) and forget about the underlying technologies. Give me a new file system or something, not turn my desktop into a giant cellphone.

I don't think it's just Microsoft. Google and Apple are fully into this too.

One issue is that the traditional desktop UI metaphor that everyone is used to is now around 30 years old. It's now old hat, nothing we are excited about. Now come along smartphones and tablets. They're sexy and everyone wants one. They are too small to really work with the same metaphor, so they do things differently.

Apple, MS and Google all see this and realize the potential of these devices becoming alternatives to traditional computers, so they try to make desktop computing sexy.

The problem being, Modern desktop Operating systems are so evolved and refined after 30 years, and based on a concept that, frankly WORK EXTREMELY WELL.

 

[Dmitri]

I don't think it's just Microsoft. Google and Apple are fully into this too.

Oh I realise it's the disease that is Apple with it's interfaces for morons consumer products (I am not talking about their computing products or their OS, i have no experience with any of that to comment). Google isn't in the desktop business.

With desktops I'm just not interested in high concept UI nonsense. The only time I care is when they don't allow me to disable it.

 

[griffinhart]

That's the thing, google IS trying to influence, or at least try to change the desktop business. That's the whole point of Chrome OS. It's really just an OS that runs full screen apps in a browser, based entirely around the cloud.

 

[insert]

did u guys notice that now the picture quality is better (whites more white, colors more vibrant?!) now it is just like in the mac os x. i was always jelous about that, mac's have better picture quality because of something apple does in the operating system, now windows 8 has too.

 

[harsaphes]

I think young people will like W8, but older people say over 40 will not. W8 seems like its geared towards social media, facebook twitter etc. I want a OS to work from not worry about facebook updates....

Ahh, I don't know where you live, but I'm over forty and use Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare ect daily and so do my 80 year old parents.

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

Older people tend to enter the "grandfather" phase and openly resist the changing times. It's good to know that at least a few of you oldies there know better

That's not to say that the resistance is blind in this case; Windows 8 really is quite a jump in change so it'll force people out of their comfort zone a bit. I'm gonna take the head start to get used to this new UI before giving it an honest opinion.

 

[hemmiandra]

Running it on one of my T420's and besides a lack of Optimus/NVS4200 support everything else works almost out of the box, including the Lenovo software.

Although I do agree with most of what griffinhart says. I really cant see myself using the Metro UI in it's present form in my multimon setup. I would like to see Tiles/Metro Apps in a much more fluid form with more freedom, without the constraints of the green platform in the background.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

The Windows Desktop is treated like a poor relation in this release. Traditional Windows Apps are relegated to being “sub windows” with the new scheme. Metro apps all get their own “frame” for lack of a better term. That is, you can swap to each metro app by swiping from the left. But All traditional Windows apps are contained in a single “windows desktop” frame no matter how many apps you are running. The result is that your apps are segregated. You manage your new Metro apps via the new interface, and all your traditional apps via the taskbar in the “windows desktop” frame. This means there is no single mechanism to swap between all your running apps, other than the task manager, which isn’t designed for that purpose. It is, in reality, a pain to manage. I can only hope that they can make a change where each individual Windows App can be swiped to on their own, metro or not.

I don't think it makes much sense to swipe between apps on your desktop, and just like every other version of windows alt + tab lets you swap between all your running apps, as does windows + tab.

 

[Spartan805]

My download is stuck @ 99% WTF

 

[jadams]

Touch features aside... is there any compelling reason to get this over Win7?

I didnt initially see anything. I only played with it for an hour. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[MrGuvernment]

So how can i remove most of the "crap" in the metro screen, to only have it show useful apps i want there instead of tossing them all over to the right side?

 

[bpmurrGT]

Touch features aside... is there any compelling reason to get this over Win7?

I didnt initially see anything. I only played with it for an hour. Anyone have any thoughts?

In the Enterprise Space I can see Windows 7 having a long life cycle like Windows XP. Windows 8 seems more consumer focused and I don't think the current benefits to the standard GUI say gotta upgrade. However, it's still very early and I'll wait till the final release before making a decision on what I think about Windows 8. It's fun to play around with this release though.

 

[hemmiandra]

Touch features aside... is there any compelling reason to get this over Win7?

I didnt initially see anything. I only played with it for an hour. Anyone have any thoughts?

The really impressive boot times, the new Task Manager, the improved Explorer/ribbons, Hyper-V, ISO and VHD mounting, new c/p transfer window, much more hardware acceleration, and probably loads more I´m forgetting.

 

[Arainach]

When did MS become obsessed with UI (that I disable instantly after install) and forget about the underlying technologies. Give me a new file system or something, not turn my desktop into a giant cellphone.

When you change the insides, no one notices.

 

[griffinhart]

So how can i remove most of the "crap" in the metro screen, to only have it show useful apps i want there instead of tossing them all over to the right side?

with the mouse.. Right click the icon, at the bottom of the sreen will be an option to "unpin" it. This will remove it from the start screen.

With touch, touch and hold a tile, start to drag it until a dark frame appears around it and let go. The unpin option will appear at the bottom of the screen.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ok, I have been playing around with Windows 8 on my Asus Tablet for a full day now. I have both praise and scathing criticism for it. I’ll preface all this stating the obvious. This is an early version. Clearly, there are lots of missing parts, especially with customization and basic app availability (for the Metro UI).

Thanks for your feed back. There will be a way to turn off the Start Menu with the final release, I was thinking that there wouldn't be but after listening to a web cast from Paul Thurrott he confirmed that this will indeed be the case.

I've been making this comment a lot but I really don't get the angst over the new Start Screen. I installed this release on my Asus EP121 and quite honestly overall I'm quite impressed still a lot of work to do but I really like the Start Menu and the potential for all that can be done with it. The thing that I like about it is that it can give users a unified way to launch apps and deal with notifications in ONE place. To me I think of it as a dash board and when developers start to leverage it I believe people will wonder how they every lived without it, be it on a tablet of a multi-monitor desktop.

In its current form it's a bit rough but it's not at all in may way or slowing me down. Pin the important stuff at the top, type a few letters to launch the stuff I use less frequently, in that regaurd it exactly like Windows 7 does for me. And sure, full screen, and smoking fast, everything flows so quickly the fact that it takes up a screen its an issue. With my EP121 connected to an external monitor I think things flow even better than Windows 7.

I love where this is going and it will provide users the best of both worlds, at least on x86 devices and ARM devices can use the Metro apps that run on x86, there's just going to be some many Metro apps coming out that people are going to miss out on so interesting programs even on the desktop if they don't use.

 

[griffinhart]

Thanks for your feed back. There will be a way to turn off the Start Menu with the final release, I was thinking that there wouldn't be but after listening to a web cast from Paul Thurrott he confirmed that this will indeed be the case.

Recent podcast with him contradict this a bit. There may be a registry hack somewhere, but, this is a poor way to go..

I've been making this comment a lot but I really don't get the angst over the new Start Screen. I installed this release on my Asus EP121 and quite honestly overall I'm quite impressed still a lot of work to do but I really like the Start Menu and the potential for all that can be done with it. The thing that I like about it is that it can give users a unified way to launch apps and deal with notifications in ONE place. To me I think of it as a dash board and when developers start to leverage it I believe people will wonder how they every lived without it, be it on a tablet of a multi-monitor desktop.

I think it's great on my EP 121. It's a terrific tablet OS, though there are things I would change. Like giving the ability to close applications without having to either wait until Windows decides it's inactive enough to close or use task manager.

In its current form it's a bit rough but it's not at all in may way or slowing me down. Pin the important stuff at the top, type a few letters to launch the stuff I use less frequently, in that regaurd it exactly like Windows 7 does for me. And sure, full screen, and smoking fast, everything flows so quickly the fact that it takes up a screen its an issue. With my EP121 connected to an external monitor I think things flow even better than Windows 7.

Oh, I would call it very rough. Really, the only benefit to the start screen over the existing start menu are the live tiles. Then again, I get the same type of information with desktop gadgets under Windows 7.

I did hook up my tablet to an external monitor, honestly, I found multimonitor support to be totally awkward. I use a multi-monitor on my desktop today, and it's simple. The bahavior of the extended desktop and start screen in Windows 8 is not so elegant.

I love where this is going and it will provide users the best of both worlds, at least on x86 devices and ARM devices can use the Metro apps that run on x86, there's just going to be some many Metro apps coming out that people are going to miss out on so interesting programs even on the desktop if they don't use.

It's great that it's going to be on ARM, though existing windows Apps will not be able to run on these machines. It's future looking and a good idea. But, again, these machines will be tablets. Windows 8 is headed the right direction for tablet computing. Windows 7 has proven the case that what works great for desktops is not great for tablets.

Where it all falls down is with desktop usage. Windows 8 demonstrates how what works great on tablets results in a less than optimal system for desktops. With the Start screen you gain the live tiles, but lose the ability to see what's running at a simple glance. You can't go from one application to another with a simple click like you can with the taskbar.

My biggest issue with all this is the idea of full screen apps, all the time. It makes sense with small screen, where windowed apps don't have the room to work right, but for large screens it's terrible.

I can't think of a single technical reason why new metro apps can't also run under a traditional desktop but in a window. They are really nothing more than HTML-5 apps. It should be very possible to develop all future apps with the new framework and have them work with both UI's so all future windows machines, ARM and x86/64.

If they can fix my issues with Windows 8 for the desktop, it will have a ton of potential. In its current form, I easily see this fragmenting the windows market. Tablet owners will go windows 8, but desktop users will stay clear and stick with Win7 or worse for microsoft, something else entirely.