Windows 8 - Bad for both Noobs and Power Users - The Proof

jordan12

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Win 8 on a tablet? Hell yeah. That is on my list of things to get.


Win 8 on my desktop? Was gone in 2 days. Sucked ass. Went back to 7.
 

KENNYB

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Win 8 on a tablet? Hell yeah. That is on my list of things to get.


Win 8 on my desktop? Was gone in 2 days. Sucked ass. Went back to 7.

YES :D

Unfortunately, some of us can use Windows 2008 for only so long. We won't have a choice in moving to Windows 2012.
 

heatlesssun

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This is true if you have a new Win 8 touch ultrabook. Which is quite a small minority if you ask me. There will be millions of people who will use it on a normal pc, laptop, or tablet.

Hybrid computing is a special case, not the standard. I'm not sure I'd want an OS designed just for that 1 case which ends up compromising all other scenarios (everything has compromises, but in Win8 they seem esp obvious).

Hybrid devices are at the heart of Windows 8 and if you look at Windows 8 tablets that have come to market, keyboards and docks are options with virtually all of them. You don't even need a keyboard and a dock with many Windows 8 tablets, I can use my 500T with a keyboard and mouse and external monitor without any type of dock.

And l understand that you think that the hybrid design compromises things, but again, I've not seen any instances where desktop applications work any differently in Windows 7 compared to 8. I understand that the differences in the Windows shell cause issues with some people, but not the applications beyond technical compatibility.
 

Veilrap

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I've been running Windows 8 for months and I have yet to find any use cases where 7 would be preferable.

Typical scenarios: Developing with Photoshop, Visual Studio, etc. Running VMs, web services, playing games both new and very old (GOG stuff works great)

Posted from a Windows RT tablet.
 

odoe

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If you want to have a conversation between just two posters, please take it to PM.
 

rive22

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How the hell do you disable the damn permissions restrictions on this OS. I have UAC disabled and I am admin account, but I still can't do shit. I can't edit any damn files on my C drive even after I give myself permission.

And why does the screen go black when you hit ctrl alt delete forcing you to sign out.
 

devil22

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How the hell do you disable the damn permissions restrictions on this OS. I have UAC disabled and I am admin account, but I still can't do shit. I can't edit any damn files on my C drive even after I give myself permission.

And why does the screen go black when you hit ctrl alt delete forcing you to sign out.

Windows isn't designed to let every file be editable, be more specific though what files and directories do you need to edit that you can not?

The screen should not go black when pressing ctrl-alt-del, might be a video driver error (try updating it) or bad gpu..?
 

niranjan162

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But there is no desktop with iOS or Android or the option to use one with a keyboard and mouse with native desktop apps. Use a Windows 8 tablet as tablet when that's the environment that works and a Windows 8 tablet like a laptop or desktop when that's what's needed. That's simply not possible natively with iOS and Android at the moment.

I agree with this. Ive been using the Win8 preview/consumer releases for a while now. I rarely used the start screen in windows 7 and I rarely use it in windows 8. Most of the things I need are pinned to the start bar and I usually just sleep my computers and end up never seeing the start screen. I feel that both the metro screen and the start menu are both inefficient. I dont think that people use that many programs that they need to go into the start menu all that often in the first place.
 

B00nie

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I agree with this. Ive been using the Win8 preview/consumer releases for a while now. I rarely used the start screen in windows 7 and I rarely use it in windows 8. Most of the things I need are pinned to the start bar and I usually just sleep my computers and end up never seeing the start screen. I feel that both the metro screen and the start menu are both inefficient. I dont think that people use that many programs that they need to go into the start menu all that often in the first place.

The start menu was already porked for Vista/W7 when they did the lame non-expanding menu type. Whatever you need to do on the computer, you have to make extra clicks to reveal stuff that's hidden from view. Frustrating and stupid. Win8 takes it to the second order.
 
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Argh, I decided to reinstall Windows 8 on my other SSD and so far it has given nothing but trouble. The last time I used it, I encountered some strange issue where I couldn't move, delete or copy anything to my hard drives, when attempting to do so, the mouse movement becomes jerky for a couple of seconds and the window closes itself, without doing anything.

And just now I restarted the computer when finishing updating Windows via Windows Update, I can't even log in, the screen is black and does nothing.
 

Wrench00

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I agree with this. Ive been using the Win8 preview/consumer releases for a while now. I rarely used the start screen in windows 7 and I rarely use it in windows 8. Most of the things I need are pinned to the start bar and I usually just sleep my computers and end up never seeing the start screen. I feel that both the metro screen and the start menu are both inefficient. I dont think that people use that many programs that they need to go into the start menu all that often in the first place.

Uhm there is no iOS or android have no desktop because they were designed to be touch IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I can take my Transofrmer android attach a keyboard and have a desktop experience. I get a cursor, trackpad and a full keyboard, with USB and video out. I remotely connect to a desktop and I can do all my work JUST FINE. you both are out to lunch
 

heatlesssun

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Uhm there is no iOS or android have no desktop because they were designed to be touch IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I can take my Transofrmer android attach a keyboard and have a desktop experience. I get a cursor, trackpad and a full keyboard, with USB and video out. I remotely connect to a desktop and I can do all my work JUST FINE. you both are out to lunch

So you can connect a mouse and keyboard and drive a touch UI, just like Windows 8. And sure a remote desktop is great, I use it all of the time with touch o login to both Windows 7 and 8 machines. If that works for you more power to you. However that's still not a local desktop.
 

Wrench00

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So you can connect a mouse and keyboard and drive a touch UI, just like Windows 8. And sure a remote desktop is great, I use it all of the time with touch o login to both Windows 7 and 8 machines. If that works for you more power to you. However that's still not a local desktop.

I use polaris office and Officesuite, Touchdown for email or OWA. I am just as productive on the android platform as I am on my desktop for most of the things and the advantage of an android is that I can do more. I have things like ssh/terminal. Oh and I have at least one unified UI to deal with. I also don't need to lug around a huge laptop get a 14 hour battery life as well. On a desktop I do even more work and I don't need a touch interface at all. (I also get 1900X1200res)

Oh I don't connect a keyboard and mouse I connect a single solid unified keyboard and trackpad.

I don't even connect to a desktop just a VDI, do I need a fucking lame ass UI for it.. FUCK NO.

RT is doomed. Windows 8 Pro tablets are doomed. You can do more with LESS and it will also COST ME less.

When I am mobile I don't need a full desktop but I have access to. I need a mobile friendly OS. When I am sitting at my desktop I don't need a Mobile os. Corporations are ditching traditional desktop going to VDI or web based stuff. Do they need a half assed baked OS with a shity UI split personality.. NOPE.
 

Red Falcon

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When I am mobile I don't need a full desktop but I have access to. I need a mobile friendly OS. When I am sitting at my desktop I don't need a Mobile os. Corporations are ditching traditional desktop going to VDI or web based stuff. Do they need a half assed baked OS with a shity UI split personality.. NOPE.

This.
So this.

It would have been nice if Microsoft had given their customers an option to change the GUI, but I guess the real innovation comes from those who made Start8.
 

odditory

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RT is doomed. .

Look, just because Samsung was the latest partner to cancel their RT plans last week doesn't mean RT is doomed. Samsung's loss bro. In a year from now when everyone's got an RT tablet on the table at Starbucks playin Netflix and Angry birds and lookin badass, Samsung, HP, Acer, Toshiba and ALL the other turncoats are gonna be eatin crow. Theyll be persona non grata around these parts. They won't even get a Christmas card from HQ.

RT is like a big sandwich of awesome and everyone wants a bite. Have you seen the new Live Tiles™ ?
 
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rive22

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After using it extensively for a few days I have gone back officially to Win7.

It does have a few benefits over Win7, but as another guy said here, it gave me a lot of problems. The common complained start screen qualms are the very least of issues with this OS. Everything the OP posted in this thread are legitimate concerns. The permissions are a joke, half of my utilities wouldn't even work, and I shouldn't have to boot into special modes every time I want to install non-signed drivers. What a joke. I'm sure everything could be modified and worked around, but why bother?

Good job Microsoft pushing people towards Linux.
 

heatlesssun

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In other news:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2027738/windows-8-app-releases-grind-to-a-near-complete-halt.html

Not good for MS. Wonder how long they can keep lieing to the press

I don't think this is just due to lower app submissions. Microsoft itself had promised a number of Xbox Live titles weeks for the launch of Windows 8 and most still have not materialized. I think part of this is just slowing down to get more quality into the store versus quantity as there was a ton a junk in that rapid growth and far too much attention is paid to app count than quality. Still lots needs to be done in the store but it's not like it's going away or that the number of Windows 8 machines is going to decline.
 

Eman D. Rahym

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It's kind of weird to res this particular thread, but the PCWorld article the thread Healer cites does have a point: the Windows Store is pretty moribund. It's been over three months since General Availability and there still isn't much reason to visit the Windows Store. In my mind, the entire point in grafting Metro onto the desktop was to give everyone access to Metro apps. OK, mission accomplished. Now, how about getting some apps out there? Microsoft should forget about spending billions to tell us how cool Metro is, and instead should invest a few billion in making actual cool Metro apps. What's the point in hyping Metro if there is nothing to do with it? Give folks a reason to use Metro and the hype will take care of itself.
 

Void

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It's kind of weird to res this particular thread, but the PCWorld article the thread Healer cites does have a point: the Windows Store is pretty moribund. It's been over three months since General Availability and there still isn't much reason to visit the Windows Store. In my mind, the entire point in grafting Metro onto the desktop was to give everyone access to Metro apps. OK, mission accomplished. Now, how about getting some apps out there? Microsoft should forget about spending billions to tell us how cool Metro is, and instead should invest a few billion in making actual cool Metro apps. What's the point in hyping Metro if there is nothing to do with it? Give folks a reason to use Metro and the hype will take care of itself.

I personally don't use the Windows store but if I did I would rather see some quality apps over quantity. Not saying there are loads of quality apps but quantity don't make it great either.

By the way, there are over 41k apps in the store and you can search them yourself without Windows 8. While the store growth is slow it is still growing.
 

mrtheshaggy

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The day Microsoft dies will be a happy one for me. I hate them so much.

No where on the internet can you find a copy of the mother fucking ISO to re-install this piece of shit operating system. The new god damn mother fucking son of a bitch laptop came with no disk to reinfuckingstall. I can't put my fucking solid state drive in.

COA on the bottom of the laptop and make the ISO's available Microsoft, you fucking morons.

They may have just made Linux more user friendly.

Of course this laptop came with a piece of shit AMD graphics card. AMD dozing their ass into bankruptcy and won't spent more than $20/month on god damn driver support.

Computers are dead to me. I'm about to get rid of the god damn computers from my house once and for all. They cause nothing but laziness and misery.
 

heatlesssun

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It's kind of weird to res this particular thread, but the PCWorld article the thread Healer cites does have a point: the Windows Store is pretty moribund. It's been over three months since General Availability and there still isn't much reason to visit the Windows Store. In my mind, the entire point in grafting Metro onto the desktop was to give everyone access to Metro apps. OK, mission accomplished. Now, how about getting some apps out there? Microsoft should forget about spending billions to tell us how cool Metro is, and instead should invest a few billion in making actual cool Metro apps. What's the point in hyping Metro if there is nothing to do with it? Give folks a reason to use Metro and the hype will take care of itself.

The Windows Store definitely has a long way to go, indeed it looks like Microsoft is trying to get Windows Phone 8 apps to "just work" on Windows 8/RT: http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-hiring-to-develop-cross-platform-windows-8-windows-phone-apps

Indeed I thought that Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 would be more seamless from the app side than they are, though they are pretty close. I can't imagine that it will be long before they really are seamless.

That said, I actually think that for less than 4 months in after general availability that there are a decent number of Metro apps, though like all of the app stores a lot of junk. But I do like a lot of video content apps like YouTube, DailyMotion, Viemo, etc, there's even a Daily Show Metro app now and I like them because they don't have the in place video ads that can't be ad blocked.
 

Eman D. Rahym

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I personally don't use the Windows store but if I did I would rather see some quality apps over quantity. Not saying there are loads of quality apps but quantity don't make it great either.

By the way, there are over 41k apps in the store and you can search them yourself without Windows 8. While the store growth is slow it is still growing.
I'm pretty sure that 41K number is globally available apps. Your local region likely has far fewer. For example, in my Store preferences I have "Make it easier to find apps in my preferred languages" set to "Yes." When I do a wildcard search using * as the search term my results show less than 22K apps available.

I agree that the Store will continue growing. I just think it's pointless for Microsoft to throw away buckets of money hyping "Touch! Touch! Touch!" when there's really not much there to touch yet. Better to spend that money getting actual apps into the store than to coax people into a store with empty shelves.

It also wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that the desktop is still alive and kicking in Windows 8. You sure wouldn't know that from any of the ads that I've seen.
 

odditory

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I'm pretty sure that 41K number is globally available apps. Your local region likely has far fewer. For example, in my Store preferences I have "Make it easier to find apps in my preferred languages" set to "Yes." When I do a wildcard search using * as the search term my results show less than 22K apps available.

I agree that the Store will continue growing. I just think it's pointless for Microsoft to throw away buckets of money hyping "Touch! Touch! Touch!" when there's really not much there to touch yet. Better to spend that money getting actual apps into the store than to coax people into a store with empty shelves.

It also wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that the desktop is still alive and kicking in Windows 8. You sure wouldn't know that from any of the ads that I've seen.

Wow I had to do a doubletake when I saw who posted the above, you're definitely NOT the dupe account of (the other guy) thats been accused by some, or its a brilliant good cop/bad cop routine. :)

You're right on the money. The advertising dollars being pissed away without something for people to see once they buy/use product is ponderous. The argument that its going to 'take time' to gain momentum is weak at best, that was valid while the iphone era was still in its infancy but MS doesnt have that luxury now, theyre late to the party and have to be smarter if they want to try and catch up.

They claim Metro's been in the works since 2009 so MS has had time to create strategic partnerships and even subsidize app dev if need be - they seem to understand this concept much better on the console side of things. With the fragile surface tension and myriad of choices in the consumer space, MS may never get a second chance to make a first impression when average Jane buys a mobile MS product, gets frustrated and her favorite apps aren't there and returns it.

Other appstores took time to get going too, sure, but the diff is they built up organically and didn't blow their wad to the tune of hundreds of millions before things were far enough along. MS is trying to take a shortcut and throw money at playing catch up but some things can't be bought or forced.
 
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heatlesssun

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You're right on the money. The advertising dollars being pissed away without something for people to see once they buy/use product is ponderous. The argument that its going to 'take time' to gain momentum is weak at best, that was valid while the iphone era was still in its infancy but MS doesnt have that luxury now, theyre late to the party and have to be smarter if they want to try and catch up.

If you don't have a Windows 8 touch device then how do you know what's been pissed away?

Other appstores took time to get going too, sure, but the diff is they built up organically and didn't blow their wad to the tune of hundreds of millions before things were far enough along. MS is trying to take a shortcut and throw money at playing catch up but some things can't be bought or forced.

Other app stores aren't Windows. I don't think Microsoft is a free to take money and kill competitors as you may think. Didn't they try that once before and end up in the biggest anti-trust tech dilemma of all time even to this day?
 

Eman D. Rahym

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People keep asking, "which comes first, the chicken or the egg?" I think that's the wrong question. What Microsoft needs to be asking is "How do we start getting chickens to roost in our Windows Store?" The answer is to put some eggs in the store so the chickens have something to roost on.

Microsoft keeps showing us ads of six year olds using a brush on a touch screen to paint crappy pictures. I'm sorry, that's not an ad for Windows 8, that's an ad for Sony and for FreshPaint. I say screw the ads for Windows 8. Instead, take that money and build some must have Metro apps so that people quit cursing its very existence and start using those apps.

If you do have to do some ads, how about one showing a nifty, new Skype app snapped to the side of a Windows 8 screen also running a desktop? Skype shows some brat's birthday party while the desktop shows the Excel spread sheet and Word and PowerPoint documents Dad is working on to pay for the ankle-biter's birthday party. The camera pulls back to show that Dad is doing all this on a Surface Pro while wedged into one of those tiny, Japanese, capsule hotel "rooms."

That's what Windows 8 is about: the future of mobile computing. Not an excuse for your rugrats to burn through all the ink in your printer.
 

odditory

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If you don't have a Windows 8 touch device then how do you know what's been pissed away?

That's nonsensical, what does one have to do with the other? The point is lack of ROI for MS:

- MS spends hundreds of millions on advertising Window 8 branded products
- People see advertisements but don't care
- People don't buy products and the fact is reflected in marketshare and uptake numbers

That's the problem. The shot in the arm that Window 8 was supposed to give Microsoft's mobile offerings upon their arrival didn't happen. Gwen Stefani and Jessica Alba happily cashed large checks to pimp Win8 phones for example but meanwhile they lost marketshare in the 3 months following launch. You can't buy cool or relevance is the point here - it looks cheap, it looks desperate, people are a little more savvy than they used to be when it comes to this stuff, so intead you've got to make a more compelling product.

LcEZaHX.png
 
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SuperSubZero

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I'm kinda surprised at there being exactly (1) IM app in the store, well 2 if you count IM+ free and IM+ Pro. The sad thing is IM+ free is totally unstable for me with Google Talk so I can't use it anyway. Back to Pidgin on the desktop -.-;

The free IRC apps are awkward, I am not sure what the authors were thinking. There's some pay ones but no I dont think I will take that chance.

I like the TuneIn app, the FilmOn TV app is ok, and sometimes the Newegg app works. /sigh.
 

PGHammer

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I have a feeling that despite what either side says in this thread, Win8 will be remembered like Vista.

Vista was a very capable OS that brought real improvements over XP. Some bad initial experiences with drivers and with older hardware gave it bad word-of-mouth that stuck with it like a cloud for its lifespan. Nobody's opinion, informed or otherwise, kept people like me from using it to great effect.

Then Windows 7 came along with relatively minor improvements and refinements, and the collective cry was "FINALLY! So much better!" It was a love story for all the people who had stuck with XP. I couldn't help but observe that with exasperation.

So just wait - Windows 9 will follow quickly on the heels of Windows 8. It will have some relatively minor usability improvements, but still have Metro. Yet all the people making excuses about why they can hate Win8 while never having used it will embrace Win9 it like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Won't stop me from enjoying Win8, especially at this price.

Pretty much.

Even on forums that are more Windows-focussed (Neowin,net, for example), the anger over Vista had reached the portion of hysterics; the FUD and hatred over Windows 8 was almost as bad. I chased 7 into VM-only duties wiht the Consumer Preview, and dual-boot Windows 8 and Server 2012 today (Server 2012 supports Hyper-V without requiring SLAT/EPT - which Windows 8 requires to use Hyper-V). What it really comes down to is that it's *different enough* from the previous version of Windows.

That is, in fact, why I steered clear of THIS thread until today - as it had (as I had suspected) turned into the same sort of thing.

I do everything in Windows 8 that I did in Windows 7 - including things that I could NOT do in Windows 7 at all, let alone at the same time. The only real change was the OS.
 

PGHammer

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If you don't have a Windows 8 touch device then how do you know what's been pissed away?



Other app stores aren't Windows. I don't think Microsoft is a free to take money and kill competitors as you may think. Didn't they try that once before and end up in the biggest anti-trust tech dilemma of all time even to this day?

The problem is that if Microsoft were to have even TRIED back then the competition would have indeed felt free to drag them into court over the flimsiest of excuses - it also did NOT help that bureaucracies (such as the EU) salivated over Microsoft's revenue stream like rodeo cowboys at Morton's (the steakhouse) - hamstrung by consent decrees one way and by being cowed by bureaucrats on the other does NOT make for a nimble Microsoft. Now? The mobile space is threatening the desktop itself with irrelevance - tablets have become *good enough* for a lot of things; same applies to smartphones. (Perfect? No; however, it doesn't have TO be perfect.) Gaming is becoming more of a niche market for PCs than ever - under threat from both consoles AND mobile gaming (tablets and smartphones - NOT the PS Vita) - look at how much-maligned Zynga has righted itself, and why 2012 EA acquisition PopCap has remained relevant - and in both cases, despite the ups and downs of their respective Facebook/social-gaming plays. It's mobile, mobile, mobile - not the desktop OR social space.

Microsoft had little choice- become mobile-relevant or risk becoming completely irrelevant.
 

Haiku214

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I bought windows 8 for $15 two weeks ago. And still I'm not compelled to install it right away based on the reviews and forums.
 
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