Windows 8.2 Will Make Start Menu An Option?

Chas said:
*HEADDESK*

Nobody here BUT YOU made ANY claim about migration levels for Win8 for "technically savvy".

Us disagreeing with you and telling you your data point support your premise is NOT the same thing as saying the inverse of what you said.

Us disagreeing with "There's data showing technically savvy users are migrating to Win8 at a higher rate than otherwise" is not us saying "There's data showing technically savvy users are NOT migrating to Win8 at a high rate than otherwise" or "There's data showing technically savvy users are migrating to Win8 at a lower rate than otherwise."

We're saying your data point doesn't support your argument. PERIOD.

The fact that you are barking up the particular tree simply means you aren't actually paying any attention to this conversation and are simply posting in reaction to what you THINK you're reading.
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Wow, what a great "conversation". :rolleyes: Well you guys grip and complain because there is no start menu, I happily continue to use my computers, as a professional, exactly the way I want. (*GASP* :eek: With Windows 8.1, Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT, how could that be?) :D Well you guys push your opinion on those here and your friends and continue to disregard or rally against anything that disagrees with your Windows 8 opinions, I will continue to recommend whatever a customers needs are and not be on the hate 8 bandwagon. Enjoy your trip.
 
I happily continue to use my computers, as a professional, exactly the way I want.
Click to expand...

And that's all that the rest of us are asking for as well...oh the irony.
 
pcjunkie said:
And that's all that the rest of us are asking for as well...oh the irony.
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No, you are demanding, quite a bit of difference. The irony would be that you are incapable of happily using your computers without someone giving you things just the way you want. How about you do it yourself instead of gripping about it.
 
ManofGod said:
No, you are demanding, quite a bit of difference. The irony would be that you are incapable of happily using your computers without someone giving you things just the way you want. How about you do it yourself instead of gripping about it.
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LOL...OK
 
ManofGod said:
Ah, the logical, well thought out response, there's the pcjunkie we've come to know and love. :D
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No, my response was about as well thought out as yours...You are using your computer just the way you want but when I can't then I'm unjustifiably complaining. You fans of Win 8 are becoming even more hilarious than ever. Choice is bad right? I don't know what else to do at this point but laugh. :p
 
pcjunkie said:
No, my response was about as well thought out as yours...You are using your computer just the way you want but when I can't then I'm unjustifiably complaining. You fans of Win 8 are becoming even more hilarious than ever. Choice is bad right? I don't know what else to do at this point but laugh. :p
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Hmmm, I never said choice is bad but, go ahead and think that if you want. I used Vista and was happy with it, I have pretty much been using computers for 23 years and always find a way to use it the way I want. An OS has never limited me in what I need or want to do, only my ability or inability to understand how to use it.

As I have said many times before, I am a computer fan, I do not beat my drum to just one thing or another. Windows 8 does not limit me either and in fact, allows me to do the same things in even more ways if I want to. (If I do not want to, that can be done as well.) So, are you planning on switching to Linux?
 
Windows 8 doesn't inhibit my ability to understand it at all. Metro just makes it needlessly harder is all. It especially makes it harder to justify and train in a corporate environment. Windows 8.1 was a step in the right direction but not enough. Bring back the start menu with Windows 8.2 or 9 and we will go with whichever they call it. Linux is just not an option for us at this time. I and my family still use Windows 7 and will for the near future. Friends and family I set up with Win 8 on laptops takes me 3 times as long to train as Windows 7 did, plus I have to mostly show them how to get out of Metro when they accidentally get stuck in it and back to the desktop. Even with the ability to boot do desktop now. Sad really.
 
Personally, I have found that after a 30 minute youtube how to video, it's all good.
 
griffinhart said:
I have asked this before with no answer yet. What considerable benefit does it offer over a start menu? And again, I am not asking for anything more but to offer the ability to chose between using a start screen and a start menu. The start screen is great of touch devices, but is crap with mouse and keyboard. And I think the adoption rate of windows 8 effectively demonstrates that I am not alone in this desire.
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Benefits to you right now. Probably very few. However, looking to the future if Microsoft doesn't want to slowly disappear they need to make headway into the mobile phone and tablet markets and they need to do so with a reasonably consistent interface.

The start menu has been a failure on mobile devices. Microsoft needs to move to UI components that work across all of people's devices.

With Windows 8 they rushed the transition and tried to force people to accept it. Not very smart, but let's face it, Microsoft is scared. They spent a long time trying to leverage their desktop Windows OS into a mobile OS. They used pens to select menu items. The interface ended up being slow and cumbersome to use. Relatively small screens made large hierarchical menus difficult to use. If the number of features and menu options were kept small it worked OK, but that made it more of a feature phone OS rather than a smart phone OS at best.

Now iOS and Android are the dominant players in Mobile. iOS' popularity has given Apple's PC an incredible boost. Tablets are taking the place where a lot of a lot of things that were done on a PC in the past. Google is trying to position ChromeOS as Android's big brother to spread into more of Microsoft's traditional market, and is starting to make progress.

So Microsoft decided to do something risky and ultimately stupid by making such a large break with their existing UI.

Microsoft has to move away from the Start Menu, but they have to make sure to bring their customers along with their changes. In hindsight they needed to years ago, but rushing things now isn't working out well for them.
 
pcjunkie said:
No, my response was about as well thought out as yours...You are using your computer just the way you want but when I can't then I'm unjustifiably complaining. You fans of Win 8 are becoming even more hilarious than ever. Choice is bad right? I don't know what else to do at this point but laugh. :p
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I don't think anyone on any side of this issue is arguing against choice. What concerns me about this is that it seems like many Windows 8 opponents are opposed to everything that Microsoft is doing in terms of adding tablet and consumer friendly features. No to SkyDrive, no to the integrated Bing, no to Windows Store apps, no to the Start Screen, etc. It seems like the choice many want is exactly the same choice that's been there for like 20 years.

That's not to say there aren't issues and things that need to be done better, but just incremental to the same basic OS just isn't good enough anymore for Windows to be relevant in the consumer space. And the option to just turn it all off just means nothing more than pushing the same old stuff.

I get that a lot of people don't believe in the hybrid OS concept, that desktops and mice and keyboards are one thing and tablets something different and I strongly disagree with this. Yes there should be options and ways to configure the OS to make it more comfortable for use on a given device and input methods but it needs to be a better option than to just turn everything off and revert back to same old UI running only desktop apps.
 
flatrock said:
Benefits to you right now. Probably very few. However, looking to the future if Microsoft doesn't want to slowly disappear they need to make headway into the mobile phone and tablet markets and they need to do so with a reasonably consistent interface.

The start menu has been a failure on mobile devices. Microsoft needs to move to UI components that work across all of people's devices.

With Windows 8 they rushed the transition and tried to force people to accept it. Not very smart, but let's face it, Microsoft is scared. They spent a long time trying to leverage their desktop Windows OS into a mobile OS. They used pens to select menu items. The interface ended up being slow and cumbersome to use. Relatively small screens made large hierarchical menus difficult to use. If the number of features and menu options were kept small it worked OK, but that made it more of a feature phone OS rather than a smart phone OS at best.

Now iOS and Android are the dominant players in Mobile. iOS' popularity has given Apple's PC an incredible boost. Tablets are taking the place where a lot of a lot of things that were done on a PC in the past. Google is trying to position ChromeOS as Android's big brother to spread into more of Microsoft's traditional market, and is starting to make progress.

So Microsoft decided to do something risky and ultimately stupid by making such a large break with their existing UI.

Microsoft has to move away from the Start Menu, but they have to make sure to bring their customers along with their changes. In hindsight they needed to years ago, but rushing things now isn't working out well for them.
Click to expand...

I think this is a very solid and accurate picture of the situation. It looks like we've reached the limit in the sales of new desktops and laptops. With PC hardware lasting longer there are fewer upgrades. The ability to run full Windows on more mobile devices it probably where any growth will come.

But yes, making classic desktop users more comfortable with the changes is necessary. I just don't think the changes are quite that dramatic or intractable, but they do require some adapting and that can be a tough sell with entrenched users.
 
ManofGod said:
Wow, what a great "conversation". :rolleyes: Well you guys grip and complain because there is no start menu, I happily continue to use my computers, as a professional, exactly the way I want. (*GASP* :eek: With Windows 8.1, Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT, how could that be?) :D Well you guys push your opinion on those here and your friends and continue to disregard or rally against anything that disagrees with your Windows 8 opinions, I will continue to recommend whatever a customers needs are and not be on the hate 8 bandwagon. Enjoy your trip.
Click to expand...


Okay, we're asking for a choice between the Metro setup and a start menu setup.

You're saying "Suck it up. Rub some dirt on it. Adapt. Screw what you want."

Who's "pushing" their opinion here?
 
ManofGod said:
Hmmm, I never said choice is bad but, go ahead and think that if you want. I used Vista and was happy with it, I have pretty much been using computers for 23 years and always find a way to use it the way I want. An OS has never limited me in what I need or want to do, only my ability or inability to understand how to use it.

As I have said many times before, I am a computer fan, I do not beat my drum to just one thing or another. Windows 8 does not limit me either and in fact, allows me to do the same things in even more ways if I want to. (If I do not want to, that can be done as well.) So, are you planning on switching to Linux?
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that they don't understand how to navigate around in Windows 8.
What's being said is that the removal of a familiar interface, that's been grown for 17+ years, imposes penalties on certain classes of user with no appreciable benefit.
 
flatrock said:
Benefits to you right now. Probably very few. However, looking to the future if Microsoft doesn't want to slowly disappear they need to make headway into the mobile phone and tablet markets and they need to do so with a reasonably consistent interface.

The start menu has been a failure on mobile devices. Microsoft needs to move to UI components that work across all of people's devices.

With Windows 8 they rushed the transition and tried to force people to accept it. Not very smart, but let's face it, Microsoft is scared. They spent a long time trying to leverage their desktop Windows OS into a mobile OS. They used pens to select menu items. The interface ended up being slow and cumbersome to use. Relatively small screens made large hierarchical menus difficult to use. If the number of features and menu options were kept small it worked OK, but that made it more of a feature phone OS rather than a smart phone OS at best.

Now iOS and Android are the dominant players in Mobile. iOS' popularity has given Apple's PC an incredible boost. Tablets are taking the place where a lot of a lot of things that were done on a PC in the past. Google is trying to position ChromeOS as Android's big brother to spread into more of Microsoft's traditional market, and is starting to make progress.

So Microsoft decided to do something risky and ultimately stupid by making such a large break with their existing UI.

Microsoft has to move away from the Start Menu, but they have to make sure to bring their customers along with their changes. In hindsight they needed to years ago, but rushing things now isn't working out well for them.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that Microsoft needs to impose a start menu interface on mobile and touch users.

What's being questioned is why they chose to impose a drastic interface on the desktop users as well? Without providing an option to revert to a familiar UI paradigm?

If they wanted to make Metro the default? Great! Fine! Dandy!
What exactly was the difficulty in simply allowing users and businesses to revert to a more classical Windows interface?

As the third party mods have show, it's not as if the underlying functionality to provider for both doesn't exist.

Why exactly was offering a choice so bad here?

Again, the Metro UI is actually a halfway decent interface for mobile/touch devices. With a bit of tweaking, were I a mobile/touch device user, I'd have no problems using it.

But on the desktop, it's a sub-optimal interface at the best.

And it's not as if Microsoft is opposed to offering control options. If they were, they wouldn't make PowerShell available.
 
heatlesssun said:
We've simply reach the limit on new conventional PC sales. Start Menus won't change that.
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How does that justify getting rid of the start menu?

It doesn't, and it pisses people off. I know it pissed me off even more once I heard that the majority of the code was STILL there. That made me think they did it on purpose to FORCE me to use their idiotic metro UI. What they should have done is let you pick...people would have dicked around with metro and it would maybe catch on in 20 years...but nope, the dipshit execs thought they knew what they were doing.
 
heatlesssun said:
I don't think anyone on any side of this issue is arguing against choice. What concerns me about this is that it seems like many Windows 8 opponents are opposed to everything that Microsoft is doing in terms of adding tablet and consumer friendly features. No to SkyDrive, no to the integrated Bing, no to Windows Store apps, no to the Start Screen, etc. It seems like the choice many want is exactly the same choice that's been there for like 20 years.
Click to expand...

So we should just allow Microsoft to hoover our data to sky drive.
So we should allow them to hijack our searches.
So we should only buy through the Microsoft store instead of being able to install from any repository or vendor we desire.
Again, on touch devices, the Start Screen is a better option. They need better tuning of the "hot areas". But that's a QOL change that can gradually be developed for.

If people want to disable Sky drive, or use another cloud storage provider by default, that's choice.
If People want to use another search provider by default (or turn off integrated searching), that's choice.
If people want to install from third parties without the Store, that's choice.

If you want to see what total lock-in on a device looks like, buy a frickin' iPad or non-Pro Surface machine.
THEN extol the glories of a gilded cage to me.

That's not to say there aren't issues and things that need to be done better, but just incremental to the same basic OS just isn't good enough anymore for Windows to be relevant in the consumer space. And the option to just turn it all off just means nothing more than pushing the same old stuff.
Click to expand...

Simply jacking around and unifying the interface, even when, on its primary form factor, it makes no sense isn't "staying relevant". It's promoting irrelevance. It gives the hint of lost direction and arbitrary decision making.

I get that a lot of people don't believe in the hybrid OS concept, that desktops and mice and keyboards are one thing and tablets something different and I strongly disagree with this. Yes there should be options and ways to configure the OS to make it more comfortable for use on a given device and input methods but it needs to be a better option than to just turn everything off and revert back to same old UI running only desktop apps.
Click to expand...

There needs to be an option to turn all the new stuff off, regardless of whether you, in particular (or even Microsoft) want it that way. If I want to run with the extant desktop paradigm, who the hell is Microsoft to tell me, and others who think like me, that we're wrong?
 
heatlesssun said:
I think this is a very solid and accurate picture of the situation. It looks like we've reached the limit in the sales of new desktops and laptops. With PC hardware lasting longer there are fewer upgrades. The ability to run full Windows on more mobile devices it probably where any growth will come.

But yes, making classic desktop users more comfortable with the changes is necessary. I just don't think the changes are quite that dramatic or intractable, but they do require some adapting and that can be a tough sell with entrenched users.
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No. I'm sorry. Forcing a change like this on people in the desktop space is stupid. I don't care HOW you see it or what side you're on.

There was no reason to remove the ability.

I'm not saying Windows Classic should have been the default on all devices. Merely an option that could be turned on or left off at the user/owner's discretion.

The fact is, there are people who don't want to use the Metro interface.
The fact is, there are people who don't LIKE the Metro interface.
The fact is, there are people who simply DO NOT HAVE THE TIME to "get to like Metro". They're too damn busy, and if the machine doesn't work how they want it, they return it and get one that does.

The local CDW out here in Chicago saw an ASTRONOMIC number of BULK ORDER returns in the first 6 months of Windows 8's existence. Several of them for multiple hundreds and/or thousands of units. Said contracts were torn up and reissued specifying Windows 7. And those weren't even the ones returning them due to application compatibility or hardware mis-spec issues.

This points out a rather tragic misstep at Microsoft.
Granted, their mobile division is growing like gangbusters. But they've still alienated the largest portion of their install base. Groups that are now opting to hold onto their existing equipment longer. Or specifying non-Win8.

All because Microsoft decided not to give users a UI reversion option.
 
Chas said:
who the hell is Microsoft to tell me, and others who think like me, that we're wrong?
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At some point things change because of forces beyond your control, my control or the control of a company like Microsoft. A person buys an iOS or Android device and when they buy another they login to the device and voilà, apps, content, contacts, it all just magically reappears from the ether. Buy a new Windows device and your pulling out backups and tracking down files for who knows how long. I'm not saying there shouldn't be options control these things but the as the general expectation from a typical consumer is that it's all automatic going against that flow means that you're not doing things that have become the norm.
 
The best part about, well the only good thing about these Win8 discussions is the information and calm, logical, and rational responses from heatlessun. There is always a gem or three in what he says. Whether it's something I went to research after or provided links. Cheers to you heatlessun. You are this forum's Mother Theresa.
 
Rob Black said:
:D LOL
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I swear to christ some people love and defend Microsoft more than their own children. It is disturbingly unhealthy when you see statements like that. I don't hate Microsoft I dislike some of the choices they made with Windows 8. Big difference there.
 
pcjunkie said:
I swear to christ some people love and defend Microsoft more than their own children. It is disturbingly unhealthy when you see statements like that. I don't hate Microsoft I dislike some of the choices they made with Windows 8. Big difference there.
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or maybe some people like what Microsoft has to offer? I see nothing to dislike about Start Screen. I get it, some of you guys don't like it, but liking something isn't the same as defending Microsoft's actions. It's just a fucking Start Screen.

I don't like Microsoft's printing technology over Remote Web App. It's clunky and slow as shit compared to Citrix's. I hate remote control over Lync. It's slow as shit compared to LogMeIn Rescue. There, I hated two things about Microsoft. Does that mean we're friends now? :rolleyes:
 
Azhar said:
or maybe some people like what Microsoft has to offer? I see nothing to dislike about Start Screen. I get it, some of you guys don't like it, but liking something isn't the same as defending Microsoft's actions. It's just a fucking Start Screen.

I don't like Microsoft's printing technology over Remote Web App. It's clunky and slow as shit compared to Citrix's. I hate remote control over Lync. It's slow as shit compared to LogMeIn Rescue. There, I hated two things about Microsoft. Does that mean we're friends now? :rolleyes:
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Like is fine...what lengths some people go on here to defend everyone of MS's decisions is disturbing. You statement didn't address that at all.
 
I refuse to use Windows 8 UI on non-touch devices. It's just garbage. On touch devices its much better. MS, give us an option and watch your sales soar.
 
pcjunkie said:
I swear to christ some people love and defend Microsoft more than their own children. It is disturbingly unhealthy when you see statements like that. I don't hate Microsoft I dislike some of the choices they made with Windows 8. Big difference there.
Click to expand...

I think you have to accept other peoples opinions without saying things like "You're using it wrong, you don't like change, you didn't give it chance, etc.".. I love Microsoft, I love Windows 8, and even like the Start Screen. But, you can look damn near everywhere and see people not liking the Start Screen at all. In every publication, in every Microsoft related site, even Microsoft's own forums. There is no way you can deny that there is a problem with people accepting the Start Menu, and it's not because they dislike change.

I'll defend Microsoft using my opinion. But, that does not make your opinion wrong or any less relevant than my own. And just because I dislike things (OSX) doesn't mean it's not a good product with it's intended audience (not me). Windows 8 may be a great OS for me, but I understand that for some people - it's not good at all. Welcome to the human race. One OS does not fit all.
 
pcjunkie said:
I swear to christ some people love and defend Microsoft more than their own children. It is disturbingly unhealthy when you see statements like that. I don't hate Microsoft I dislike some of the choices they made with Windows 8. Big difference there.
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I swear, people getting compliments really bother other people on this forum. :rolleyes: I agree, thank you heatlesssun for giving assistance when it is needed and good information that is helpful. There are those who really appreciate it and will support each other here on these forums.
 
ManofGod said:
I swear, people getting compliments really bother other people on this forum. :rolleyes: I agree, thank you heatlesssun for giving assistance when it is needed and good information that is helpful. There are those who really appreciate it and will support each other here on these forums.
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Missed the point entirely...but OK :p
 
ManofGod said:
I agree, thank you heatlesssun for giving assistance when it is needed and good information that is helpful. There are those who really appreciate it and will support each other here on these forums.
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Yes, the advice and assistance posts are very helpful and definitely appreciated.
 
XamediX, Ur_Mom, ManofGod, thanks for the kind words!:)

Microsoft certainly doesn't need any defending from me. It'll probably be around long after I'm dead and gone still raking in tons of cash. Windows 8 is a controversial release and there are things that Microsoft obviously needed to do better. I like 8.x overall because I have it running on a number of devices, from an 8" 13 ounce tablet to a 3 screen gaming rig and number of things between and within the performance and input constraints of each device, everything is nearly 100% compatible and will work on any of these devices.

I understand many don't think the hybrid approach is optimal and/or that 8.x isn't keyboard and mouse friendly enough for desktop users. There's certainly good points here and I've long said that 8 doesn't necessarily offer a lot to keyboard and mouse desktop app only users. And I've said that 8 needs improvement in those areas.

I think there are better ways than others to go about the classic desktop complaints however. A Metro off switch would definitely appease a lot of people. But Windows is already dominate on the desktop, even Windows 8.x has no serious competition from anything not called Windows. And the new desktop market is shrinking. And I don't think a Metro off switch addresses the long term issues because there's been an equivalent shrinking of Mac sales as well, and it's tough to explain how Windows 8 caused that. There's already a ton of support for desktop apps in Windows. Everyone, from 8 opponents to proponents, think the Windows Store is weak. So how does a Metro off switch encourage developers to write modern apps if there's a switch to turn all of that off in the box?

There are no silver bullets here. Microsoft is clearly leveraging the desktop to gain more entry into mobile. And considering the market and current projections for desktop and tablet sales, that does make sense. That's not a defense but simply a interpretation of the facts as I see them. Microsoft does need to address the desktop issues in 8, I think it was pretty obvious that they have to. The question is how and it will be interesting to see the answer to that.
 
heatlesssun said:
XamediX, Ur_Mom, ManofGod, thanks for the kind words!:)


I think there are better ways than others to go about the classic desktop complaints however. A Metro off switch would definitely appease a lot of people. But Windows is already dominate on the desktop, even Windows 8.x has no serious competition from anything not called Windows. And the new desktop market is shrinking. And I don't think a Metro off switch addresses the long term issues because there's been an equivalent shrinking of Mac sales as well, and it's tough to explain how Windows 8 caused that. There's already a ton of support for desktop apps in Windows. Everyone, from 8 opponents to proponents, think the Windows Store is weak. So how does a Metro off switch encourage developers to write modern apps if there's a switch to turn all of that off in the box?

There are no silver bullets here. Microsoft is clearly leveraging the desktop to gain more entry into mobile. And considering the market and current projections for desktop and tablet sales, that does make sense. That's not a defense but simply a interpretation of the facts as I see them. Microsoft does need to address the desktop issues in 8, I think it was pretty obvious that they have to. The question is how and it will be interesting to see the answer to that.
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Only personal observation here, nothing serious

1. Hence, for the precision crowd, this is exactly what they want to hear, XP/Vista/7 desktop mode it does mostly what many already perceived and verified suitable, in certain way commonly accepted approach to many things.

2. For the continuance crowd, this is the clearest written "spec" on the forum on the rationale, hence the precision crowd wants this part demonstrate. From the continuance crowd, their issue is even if MS done everything old way slightly better, they may not see much when others are moving to new approaches, hence, the continuance view. From generic understanding of many things, many also can understand.

3. However, nothing is perfect in this world, hence recent MS management tips
quote
1.Make sure you see the whole playing field
2.Don't pin hopes on a single individual or "dream team"
3.Realize there's no perfect business model perfect for every era
4.Don't place only long-term or only short-term bets
5.Know your limits
end quote

4. However, in this new era

4.1 Apple choose to ignore most users without credit cards. If you use new Mac 10.9 and you do not have credit card, you may have certain problem even for the basic system update through Mac App Store. I agree Apple has done something as it seem some free system updates now automated and possible without going through the credit card process. However, free Apps download still not possible unless you supplied the Credit card to complete the Mac App Store ID and workstation tied in process. Apple must have its own reasons so no argument here, but it does present a scenario. Also, Download multiple gigabytes of file from for system OS upgrade

4.2 Microsoft choose similar approach, but a least credit card is not needed for now. However, for example, you need to download multiple gigabytes of file from Windows Store to upgrade from 8 to 8.1 for each computer. If you are environment with some computers but slow Internet connection, the bandwidth..

4.3 As Apple and MS are both similar in this approach, they must have their own internal reason, but it does mean for a specific section of user base, the circumstances now requires some consideration. Hence, for the continuance crowd, to pursue, they let go, in certain way. One certainly cannot say much because that's what Apple does, the continuance crowd wants to point.

to close this post, refers to MS management tips again.
 
lightp2 said:
1.Make sure you see the whole playing field
Click to expand...

I think that when companies do things that are controversial or broadly perceived as dumb it is often because they do see the whole playing field and take into consideration things the critics don't. Maybe the company makes a miscalculation, but not by ignoring something but from overthinking it.
 
I honestly can't stand Windows 8x and feel its total garbage on anything without a touchscreen and has no business on my desktop with mouse and keyboard. The fact I've still got Win7 on my gaming rig and Ubuntu on my daily use laptop is a testament to it.
That being said, it is MY OPINION.
I've used a Windows phone and tablet with touchscreens and must say, it really shines on them. If Windows had beat Android to market with their current level of refinement with Android's level of developer support they could easily have shot to the #1 spot, and I say that owning several Android tablets and phones. I'm already invested into the Google ecosystem just like iPhone and iPad users are invested into the Apple ecosystem, I'd lose money switching AND I still do prefer the level of flexibility my devices offer that neither MS or Apple allow.
Again, opinion.
Had MS made boot to desktop with a start menu and start button an option if it didn't detect a touchscreen, I'd probably be praising them instead and not put Ubuntu on a brand new laptop.
 
XamediX said:
You are this forum's Mother Theresa.
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Did you just compare one of this forums noisiest and most persistently annoying members to a woman who won a Nobel Prize for helping the poor and needy?

Picard-facepalm.jpg
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that when companies do things that are controversial or broadly perceived as dumb it is often because they do see the whole playing field and take into consideration things the critics don't. Maybe the company makes a miscalculation, but not by ignoring something but from overthinking it.
Click to expand...

I think that's being generous.
 
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