Windows 8.2 Will Make Start Menu An Option?

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Making the start menu available as an option? Is there a reason we are all still talking about this? Just do it, be done with it, and move on to more important stuff already.

Start menu. After bringing back the Start button in Windows 8.1, Microsoft will take the next logical step in the next Windows version and make the Start menu available as an option. It's possible this will appear only on those product versions that support the desktop.
Click to expand...
 
They really should have just done this to start with. I realize it is not hard to get to the desktop and I realize that their are good things about the Metro UI, however all of the negative stuff could have been avoided and Win 8 would've been praised otherwise. Some people have to be eased into change. :)
 
This would make my sister happy. She loathes the Start Screen, and her boyfriend installed Classic Shell on her Win 8 laptop a while back because she had a hard time finding programs on her computer. The Search feature was "too inconvenient" and "clumsy" just to find and load a program. She'd rather just have the Start Menu again, and point and click on the program she wants to run instead of scrolling a large Start Screen from left to right clicking on large icons.

Yes, there are people like her who have this same gripe about Windows 8. Me? I don't care, but I'm tech-savvy than my sister, and after a year-plus with Windows 8, it's not that bad of an OS. I like it and haven't had any very major issues with it.

Would I like the Start Menu? Sure, I'm used to both that and the Start Screen by now, so either way will work for me.
 
The whole Metro UI should have been an OPTION to choose for those few touchscreen computers out there in the world. Those are the computers most likely to be used in the same manner as a tablet or phone. For the rest of the world, anyone who has more than half dozen pieces of software to run would find the Start menu easier, more logical, and dare I say it... more intuitive than the crazy Metro UI.

I still remember my very first brush with Metro UI... when I actually had to do a Google search to learn where the Windows shutdown button was hidden. Under Settings? Really?

worm
 
I am amazed MS is fighting it that hard.

Customers are telling them "Bring it back and we will buy" and MS doesn't care.

Sure the tech savvy don't care, Sure I have had to find new ways to do certain things, but since so many corps are still on XP, why not make their switch to 8 easy? I'm sure MS doesn't want to support 7 for the next decade like they have with XP, so why fight what your customers want?

If win8 had a boot to desktop and a full on start menu, basically making metro non existent for most users, they would be thrilled.
 
Maybe they'll fix all the bugs that Windows 8.1 introduced... or maybe there'll be more bugs. Ever since upgrading to Windows 8.1, programs aren't working correctly like soundforge, I'm getting crashes sometimes that I never did. Also NONE of my computers sleep correctly and I've gone through several forums doing what they say, reloaded my computer from scratch and still nothing. Windows 8.1 is the biggest piece of junk. I had no problems with Windows 8... LOL
 
dear microsoft,

for once in the entire history of your company, i believe its time to try something so insane and unorthodox that doing so may start the beginning of the apocalypse:

listen to your customers
 
THRESHIN said:
dear microsoft,

for once in the entire history of your company, i believe its time to try something so insane and unorthodox that doing so may start the beginning of the apocalypse:

listen to your customers
Click to expand...

It's like these multi-billion dollar companies that if they listened to their customers would devalue their stocks or something. A good business regardless of its size listens to their customers and their feedback to improve their product or service.
 
It should have been included in the first place.
They could have kept it disabled by default if they wanted users to try first without it.
 
Meh, after forcing myself to at least try Metro I now find the Start menu archaic and clumsy, I've never been so organised nor found and launched stuff so fast in 15 years of heavy PC use, and I'm not even trying to make it convenient. I spent like 30 mins placing icons when I explored it and sometimes add an important program or game. It looks weird but it is just incredibly more efficient.
 
I'm one of the few that prefers Modern UI and the start screen (not at first, really). But, my employer and many, many people would love to have the option to have the start menu back. It would get my company to migrate to 8, rather than wait it out with 7. We want a native option, rather than resorting to third party applications.

Tablets are wonderful with the Modern UI. Desktops aren't. Give people the option, Microsoft. That's what they users have been screaming about for the past year and some.
 
bullet-worm said:
The whole Metro UI should have been an OPTION to choose for those few touchscreen computers out there in the world. Those are the computers most likely to be used in the same manner as a tablet or phone. For the rest of the world, anyone who has more than half dozen pieces of software to run would find the Start menu easier, more logical, and dare I say it... more intuitive than the crazy Metro UI.

I still remember my very first brush with Metro UI... when I actually had to do a Google search to learn where the Windows shutdown button was hidden. Under Settings? Really?

worm
Click to expand...

I have never found the start menu to be logical or intuitive. it is a worthless feature. I personally am glad it is gone. case in point that it is worthless, Mac OS X doesn't have one and people get along just fine with that OS.
 
At this rate by the time they get to Windows 8.6, it might be a Windows interface I won't really mind. :D
 
Exavior said:
I have never found the start menu to be logical or intuitive. it is a worthless feature. I personally am glad it is gone. case in point that it is worthless, Mac OS X doesn't have one and people get along just fine with that OS.
Click to expand...

Every program has its own menu in Mac OS X. Finder, Word, Etc....all at the top. Thats the "start" menu for Mac OS X.

If I can't remember the name of some misc program, a nice list would be handy. Mac OS X you either have to type it in finder, or go a few level into the hard drive under Applications. Even then, it might be a system program not listed there.

Personally, as a power user, I find the start menu incredibly worth it.
 
octoberasian said:
It's like these multi-billion dollar companies that if they listened to their customers would devalue their stocks or something. A good business regardless of its size listens to their customers and their feedback to improve their product or service.
Click to expand...

Not really. The customer generally doesn't know what they want. Who is ms going to listen to? You or me? We may have differing opinions, needs, wants, etc...etc...

Windows 8 is a great os and the start menu has and always will be a crutch and ineffective. I'm glad ms tried aomething new but too many people are afraid of change to even break away from their old habits.

Companies who abide by the mantra "if it isn't broke don't fix it" don't last long anymore I.e. blackberry
 
It's good to see the new Windows team may actually care about users. Heatlesssun will be heartbroken.

Now they just need to ditch the fugly flat GUI and bring back Aero glass. Rumor has it that Aero is coming back in 'some form or another.' I'd also like to see them continue Media Center development and make it a standard feature like it was with Vista/7, but I'm not holding my breath on that.
 
Exavior said:
I have never found the start menu to be logical or intuitive. it is a worthless feature. I personally am glad it is gone. case in point that it is worthless, Mac OS X doesn't have one and people get along just fine with that OS.
Click to expand...


Translation: "I HATE IT SO ITS WORTHLESS TO EVERYONE ELSE AS WELL...LA LA LA"!
 
Climber said:
Not really. The customer generally doesn't know what they want. Who is ms going to listen to? You or me? We may have differing opinions, needs, wants, etc...etc...

Windows 8 is a great os and the start menu has and always will be a crutch and ineffective. I'm glad ms tried aomething new but too many people are afraid of change to even break away from their old habits.

Companies who abide by the mantra "if it isn't broke don't fix it" don't last long anymore I.e. blackberry
Click to expand...

It's a very good point: A lot of people are afraid of change.

If it's too new or too different, they'll cry bloody Mary, and come to forums like these and get into one-on-one arguments with very specific users that I will not name. :p

If technology doesn't take the risks to try something new and different, there wouldn't be any advancement or innovation in technology coming after, in my opinion.
 
gossipninja1 said:
I am amazed MS is fighting it that hard.

Customers are telling them "Bring it back and we will buy" and MS doesn't care.

Sure the tech savvy don't care, Sure I have had to find new ways to do certain things, but since so many corps are still on XP, why not make their switch to 8 easy? I'm sure MS doesn't want to support 7 for the next decade like they have with XP, so why fight what your customers want?

If win8 had a boot to desktop and a full on start menu, basically making metro non existent for most users, they would be thrilled.
Click to expand...

I think it's a little more than Microsoft making a hard decision about bringing back the Start menu. I think they might be working on a redesign of the Start menu like how Vista and 7 was redesigned after XP, and XP was redesigned after 95/98/Me. Microsoft will probably want to make the buttons in the menu a little bigger to maintain its touch-friendliness like how they replaced the menu with ribbons in folders.

I can envision them implementing their Outlook.com style drop menu. Click the menu and a Start Bar would appear across side of the screen for quick access menu with All Programs at the bottom.
 
Climber said:
Not really. The customer generally doesn't know what they want. Who is ms going to listen to? You or me? We may have differing opinions, needs, wants, etc...etc...
Click to expand...

The real customer for Microsoft are business customers.
You know, the ones who tend to refresh their systems in bulk.
You know, the ones who's avoiding Windows 8 like the bubonic plague.
They, not Joe Averageconsumer, are the ones who've driven for the option to purchase systems with Windows 7 instead of Windows 8.
They're the ones who're normally making up the majority of early adoption and mid-term adoptions of Microsoft OSes. The fact that they're avoiding Windows 8 (and 8.1) is damning.


Windows 8 is a great os and the start menu has and always will be a crutch and ineffective. I'm glad ms tried aomething new but too many people are afraid of change to even break away from their old habits.
Click to expand...

Nobody minds if they try something new. It's when they cripple their UI by arbitrarily removing functionality, like they're going to FORCE everyone to adopt the UI, that people are getting sandy.

Companies who abide by the mantra "if it isn't broke don't fix it" don't last long anymore I.e. blackberry
Click to expand...

That's the thing. Blackberry HAS BEEN BROKEN. They just didn't fix it for the longest time. Sitting there so convinced of their superiority. They pissed away a MASSIVE market share. And pretty much EVERY product they've pushed public since then has been:
  • A "catch up" product, years behind the curve
  • Completely proprietary, requiring you to buy multiple BB devices.
  • Just, flat out, not what people are asking for.
  • Still dependent on Blackberry's craptastic, cracktastic development community.
 
Remove the desktop entirely. Have Windows 8.3 only support Metro apps. Touch only.
 
As soon as you start thinking about the start screen as a big full screen start menu, everything is fine. My mother, who initially hated her new windows 8 laptop, now loves it. All it took was 10 minutes removing the shitware that ends up on the start screen by default, creating a few categories, and putting her most used programs on there. Now she loves it ( about 7 seconds to boot, SSD swap out ftw) and all the things she'd want to do are displayed categorically in blocks. Easy peasy.
 
Many have made the point that the Start Screen simply needs to more configurable and it could easily replace the Start Menu. Allow for a non full screen mode and vertical scrolling of the Start Menu shortcuts and that the majority of it. Having a completely Start Menu and Start Screen would be confusing and the classic Start Menu is ineffective on a growing number of new Windows tablets and hybrids. Hybrids in particular would get complicated if switched between the classic Start Menu when using a mouse and keyboard or touch, and since all Windows devices are technically hybrid capable, it just further makes it more complex.

The "desktop friendly" list I see:

1. Configuration options for the Start Screen to allow for 1/4 or user defined width
2. Hierarchical Start Menu view with vertical scrolling
3. Windowed modern apps
4. Some type of wizard or setting to make it easier to set defaults to desktop or modern apps with the ability to set a class of extensions to a certain program type. All video extensions modern, all picture extensions modern
5. Better integration of desktop apps with the Charms bar for things like Sharing

And of course there's a lot more but now that Microsoft has invested in the modern UI, it makes more sense to enhance it and make it fit better in the terms of hybrid OS realizing that they future of Windows isn't just about desktop or even just about tablets, but a mix of both and options to allow it to fit better in those spaces gives Windows more flexibility.
 
Funny thing is, if MS hadn't fucked up with their phones and tablets, the move towards integration of the 3 devices would have been groundbreaking. Right now ppl just see W8 as the "tablet OS", which it isn't. But if they mange to provide a great anf seamless user experience between phone, PC and tablet, I'd probably move away from Android. Love android, but the ability to, say, press a program on my phone, and slide it in the general direction of my PC to see it open there to keep on working, or have programs, mp3s, saved files and more automatically carry wirelessly and seamlessly from one device to another would trump a lot. This is were we are heading, but no one has yet been able to be successful in all 3 areas to unite yet.
 
I have a theory that if you say "Metro" 3 times in a row in any thread, heatlesssun will magically appear and defend the metro UI :p

I don't care which one is enabled by default, but this is the route MS should have gone from the very beginning. Enable it on touchscreen laptops and tablets, make it an option on the desktop. Why force a UI that is designed to compensate for the shortcomings of one device onto another device that never had those shortcomings in the first place?
 
Climber said:
Not really. The customer generally doesn't know what they want. Who is ms going to listen to? You or me? We may have differing opinions, needs, wants, etc...etc...

Windows 8 is a great os and the start menu has and always will be a crutch and ineffective. I'm glad ms tried aomething new but too many people are afraid of change to even break away from their old habits.

Companies who abide by the mantra "if it isn't broke don't fix it" don't last long anymore I.e. blackberry
Click to expand...

You've got it backwards...the *start screen* is the crutch...which is why so many don't like it...;) Seriously, Microsoft should have had the good sense to leave in the start menu as an option and let those with touchscreens who don't want it do without it, and allow those with non-touchscreen monitors (the overwhelming majority) to keep it.

When it comes to a computer gui, there's no such thing as "advanced." There is only what you like, and what you don't. Many people like touchscreen computing--most do not. Microsoft should be serving both.
 
The Avalon said:
95% of the [H] userbase would love to have a word with you.
Click to expand...

And out of the other 5% probably 95% of them use a 3rd party start screen/menu app to turn it back into a Windows 7 UI....but at the same time claim Win 8/Metro is the greatest! :p
 
Until they get their search feature working better, windows needs a start menu. I'll type in a program, and it will point me to the most obscure things, over a program that I load almost daily.
 
Beowulf said:
Until they get their search feature working better, windows needs a start menu. I'll type in a program, and it will point me to the most obscure things, over a program that I load almost daily.
Click to expand...

Not sure what's happening with you but Search works well for me in this regard, as well as Windows 7 did though some of the integration with things Outlook and OneNote is gone, that needs to be addressed.
 
Chas said:
The real customer for Microsoft are business customers.
You know, the ones who tend to refresh their systems in bulk.
You know, the ones who's avoiding Windows 8 like the bubonic plague.
They, not Joe Averageconsumer, are the ones who've driven for the option to purchase systems with Windows 7 instead of Windows 8.
They're the ones who're normally making up the majority of early adoption and mid-term adoptions of Microsoft OSes. The fact that they're avoiding Windows 8 (and 8.1) is damning.
Click to expand...

I don't have stats with me but I believe the vast majority of corporations are still on XP. Once eol hits xp in january I'm sure companies will look at upgrading to 7 but I underatamd what your saying.


Nobody minds if they try something new. It's when they cripple their UI by arbitrarily removing functionality, like they're going to FORCE everyone to adopt the UI, that people are getting sandy.
Click to expand...

To a certain extent I agree. More flexibility would have been nice but the desktop modes are so similar I don't think ms saw this as a huge deal. Metro doesn't have to be used and it would have nice to have the option to boot straight to desktop without having to write a custom scriot for it.



That's the thing. Blackberry HAS BEEN BROKEN. They just didn't fix it for the longest time. Sitting there so convinced of their superiority. They pissed away a MASSIVE market share. And pretty much EVERY product they've pushed public since then has been:
  • A "catch up" product, years behind the curve
  • Completely proprietary, requiring you to buy multiple BB devices.
  • Just, flat out, not what people are asking for.
  • Still dependent on Blackberry's craptastic, cracktastic development community.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between broke and not tech relevent anymore. iOS really broke the mold and blackberry and their "superiority" weren't willing to admit that they weren't relevent anymore. All of their changes were because they were trying to play catch up and they didn't have a plan or model in place to support those changes. Good companies will always be trying to push the envelope of what is going to keep thrm in the forefront.

Ms tried something new but it was too drastic. Perhaps a more hybrid model would have been appropriate for windows 8 as they completely misjudged the reception to windows 8. All in all it is a great os with a lot of nice features; however, more customization would have been nice. But most people forget all the changes that happwned to xp and 7 as well and forget the growing pains with both of them as well.
 
What ever it's called now, in Win 8.1 is absolutely much better than having to dig through menu's of the old style of the Start Menu. Why would it be better to have everything crammed into one tiny corner when you can see all the icons that you choose on the whole entire screen? Especialy now that you can keep the same paper in both the desktop and the other screen.
 
gossipninja1 said:
I am amazed MS is fighting it that hard.

Customers are telling them "Bring it back and we will buy" and MS doesn't care.

Sure the tech savvy don't care, Sure I have had to find new ways to do certain things, but since so many corps are still on XP, why not make their switch to 8 easy? I'm sure MS doesn't want to support 7 for the next decade like they have with XP, so why fight what your customers want?

If win8 had a boot to desktop and a full on start menu, basically making metro non existent for most users, they would be thrilled.
Click to expand...

The other problem with Win 8, is having a browser some businesses, or government organizations can't use for 90% of the applications that were coded with IE8 or 9 in mind, IE 10 and 11 break them.
 
Exavior said:
I have never found the start menu to be logical or intuitive. it is a worthless feature. I personally am glad it is gone. case in point that it is worthless, Mac OS X doesn't have one and people get along just fine with that OS.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's where I got confused. I'm used to a logical list of programs that I can just click and run. OSX didn't do that for me.... I had to go search for it. So, I found the terminal and spent some time there (I'm not an expert at *nix, but I'm comfortable with it). OSX is great, but coming from Windows or Linux, I was a bit lost at first. You do get used to it (same as Windows 8).
 
Outamyhead said:
The other problem with Win 8, is having a browser some businesses, or government organizations can't use for 90% of the applications that were coded with IE8 or 9 in mind, IE 10 and 11 break them.
Click to expand...

Compatibility Mode. IIRC, you can create a list to add to the compatibility mode list and so those sites will run them that way. That's how we're doing things for those few users that go with Windows 8.1 (me and several others with touchscreen devices). It works. Although (and this is usually a no-no), Chrome with the IE Tab works EXCELLENT. Chrome isn't officially allowed, but working in the IT department has certain privileges.
 
octoberasian said:
A good business regardless of its size listens to their customers and their feedback to improve their product or service.
Click to expand...
While I agree with you, I feel obligated as an internet citizen to post the following image:

tumblr_l4srykesbA1qz6pqio1_500.png

(Yeah, I know... No proof he ever said that, etc.)

And my god, I hope they fix the application stability issues in 8.1/2K12R2. It took me two days to install vSphere Client because the damned installer kept crashing... Something it didn't do in 2012.
 
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