Windows 7 vs. Windows Vista

7MC or VMC?

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rhouck

2[H]4U
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I haven't messed around with a version of Microsoft's Media Center since the 2005 release.... and it was SERIOUSLY underwhelming compared to the other options available at the time.

However, all the threads about VMC and 7MC have me curious.... functionality seems to be very good, ease of use seems high, integrated bonuses (like Netflix) seem nice, and with the advent of some skins/plugins it doesn't look like bright blue ass :p

So the only question is: which to try?

I have both so the cost (i.e. RC1 being free) is irrelevant here.

Are there any real differences between the two? I seem to be hearing about the occasional hiccup with 7MC... is it better just to try VMC as it should be a more polished and supported product (and OS)?

Hardware is in my sig. I'm also debating trying a tuner card (considering abandoning my DVR box and maybe my cable altogether) if that is at all relevant.
 
I would go for Vista Media Center because it is already established.
 
7 Media Center is already what Vista Media Center was in terms of establishment, plus it carries a shit ton of new good things.
 
Windows 7 hands down. The only thing it's missing is Netflix but MS says that is coming soon.
 
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netflix is already in Media Center.... supported by MS and also 3rd party.

7MC has the ability to share recorded TV between media centers, the DVD library is a huge improvement and also the Library management is SOOOOO much better. Color coded guide is nice and support for clearQAM is much improved
 
Adidas4275 said:
netflix is already in Media Center.... supported by MS and also 3rd party.
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It's not supported in Win7. Stupid, I know but it's not supported. That's what he's talking about.

Anyways, WTF? Seriously? Win7 hands down.
 
Alrighty, then Win 7 it is!

I just want something that WORKS with no weird bugs or hiccups I have to fuck with (which is why I've been content to stay with WinXP for so long). I just wanted to make sure that people were liking 7MC for more than just it being FREE :p
 
FRAGizm said:
Doesnt Windows 7 support blu-ray too or will in final release?
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I thought it didn't come with the codecs natively, but once you install software that has them (or the codecs on their own I suppose), then it is perfectly integrated.
 
rhouck said:
I thought it didn't come with the codecs natively, but once you install software that has them (or the codecs on their own I suppose), then it is perfectly integrated.
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You still need PowerDVD, TMT, or WinDVD to play BD discs. If you rip them first, there are other options.
 
Does anyone care to elaborate on exactly what features/additions Win7 has that makes it such the clear favorite over Vista? I've used and like them both, but I never got the WOW factor other people seem to be getting about Win7, other than the cost. The new taskbar is kinda cool, but I would personally call it more different than better. There are a few cosmetic changes that make it a bit nicer to look at, but again, nothing earth shattering. i never noticed any significant performance gains, but I don't do much except the usual MC stuff and some web surfing. I'm honestly not bashing anyone for choosing Win7 over Vista, I am just wondering if I missed something when I tried it. I bounced back and forth between Vista and the Beta builds quite a bit back before the RC came out and never really had a preference. I had a pretty stable version of Vista running when the RC was released, so I never made the switch. mainly because I didn't feel like re-entering all the Guide data info for 70+ QAM channels. Am I really missing out on anything?
 
FRAGizm said:
Doesnt Windows 7 support blu-ray too or will in final release?
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It has "hooks" in it to support Blu ray devices if anyone wants to add that to the OS, like if Nero wanted to make an OS add on that lets you burn BR discs via explorer drag and drop. It does not add BR playback to 7MC but it does support playback of BR ripped material.
 
DDR4040 said:
Does anyone care to elaborate on exactly what features/additions Win7 has that makes it such the clear favorite over Vista? I've used and like them both, but I never got the WOW factor other people seem to be getting about Win7, other than the cost. The new taskbar is kinda cool, but I would personally call it more different than better. There are a few cosmetic changes that make it a bit nicer to look at, but again, nothing earth shattering. i never noticed any significant performance gains, but I don't do much except the usual MC stuff and some web surfing. I'm honestly not bashing anyone for choosing Win7 over Vista, I am just wondering if I missed something when I tried it. I bounced back and forth between Vista and the Beta builds quite a bit back before the RC came out and never really had a preference. I had a pretty stable version of Vista running when the RC was released, so I never made the switch. mainly because I didn't feel like re-entering all the Guide data info for 70+ QAM channels. Am I really missing out on anything?
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http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/
Enough said. I'm never using Vista again.
 
I'm holding off on using Windows 7 since it's only in RC right now. Once it goes gold, then I'll use it. But what I have used, I've been impressed with.
 
Had Vista 64, Kept randomly crashing every few days and needed to be rebooted. Got Win 7 RC and it never crashes. Better feature and i dont believe i have rebooted it in over a month.
 
Nekoashide said:
Had Vista 64, Kept randomly crashing every few days and needed to be rebooted. Got Win 7 RC and it never crashes. Better feature and i dont believe i have rebooted it in over a month.
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Funny, I still have a similar issue with my sig rig. Put a caddy in it so that I could swap out my hard drives and keep my Vista instlation and just swap the drives out. Stll have the crash every now and then, not every day and not until the machine has been on for a day. A daily reboot actually mitigates this issue well, A daily reboot is not big deal.

My guess is that the problem is my overclock is a little off so I need to test default speeds some day.
 
this isnt even a debate. win7mc all the way. its easily as big of jump as mce2005 to vistamc was, and win7's mc alone can be a reason to upgrade your os.
 
spacetrader said:
this isnt even a debate. win7mc all the way. its easily as big of jump as mce2005 to vistamc was, and win7's mc alone can be a reason to upgrade your os.
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Please don't take this personally, but this is exactly the kind of rave review I was talking about. Long on the praise, short on the details why you think Win7 is better. Care to share some examples? Quite frankly, I'm not seeing any real difference between Vista MC w/TV Pack and Win7 MC. If there was, I would switch over to the RC today.
 
DDR4040 said:
Please don't take this personally, but this is exactly the kind of rave review I was talking about. Long on the praise, short on the details why you think Win7 is better. Care to share some examples? Quite frankly, I'm not seeing any real difference between Vista MC w/TV Pack and Win7 MC. If there was, I would switch over to the RC today.
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Then, clearly, you haven't used 7MC or Win7 for that matter. The differences between them is almost night and day at this point. Win7 and 7MC is what Vista should have been at least from day one of SP1.
 
DDR4040 said:
Please don't take this personally, but this is exactly the kind of rave review I was talking about. Long on the praise, short on the details why you think Win7 is better. Care to share some examples? Quite frankly, I'm not seeing any real difference between Vista MC w/TV Pack and Win7 MC. If there was, I would switch over to the RC today.
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Try it for yourself. If you want people to go play fetch bringing you back all the differences between two operating systems, you aren't going to get any help. Go read some of the Windows 7 engineering blogs if you want answers. There's two ways we get information around here.. we try things ourselves and read primary sources.
 
w1retap said:
Try it for yourself. If you want people to go play fetch bringing you back all the differences between two operating systems, you aren't going to get any help. Go read some of the Windows 7 engineering blogs if you want answers. There's two ways we get information around here.. we try things ourselves and read primary sources.
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Thanks for the warm reply:) Actually, I don't need anyone to do the work for me, I did try it for myself. I was using the Win7 betas almost continually from late February to late April. I tried everything from Build 7000 up to 7077. I did at least 15 clean installs on my test PC. I'd try a new build, then go back to Vista to compare. I used build 7048 the most, probably for about a month straight in the middle. They all worked well, I didn't have any major issues with an of them at all. On the flip side, Vista w/TV Pack did a nice job for me too. In the end, I went back Vista only for a personal preference. I think the Start Menu in MC for both Win7 and Vista are both way too cluttered. I re-installed and stuck with Vista only because the MenuMender plugin doesn't work for Win7 and I didn't feel like editing registry settings to get the Win7 menu strips to look the way I wanted them to. And that's were I have been for the past month and a half. My conclusion from my whole Win7 beta experience was that both OS's do a very nice job, but were fairly equal in features and performance. Either one would make a fine HTPC OS.

Clearly, from the other opinions I have seen here(and at sevenforums.com and AVS), I am in the vast minority in this conclusion. Win7 is getting nothing but glowing reviews. People don't like it, they love it. Since this contradicts my own personal experience, and I'm not arrogant enough to think I am right and the rest of the world is wrong, I asked if some of the Win7 backers would share a few of the reasons they think Win7 is so much better than Vista. I actually thought I would just get a few replies from people ticking off the top 2 or 3 things they liked about Win7 off the top of their heads. Instead I just got more of the back cover book quotes that everyone keeps seeming to throw around these days about Win7. Oh well, it's a bit disappointing but no big deal. I only asked the question to satisfy my own curiosity. I didn't want to start a big "Win7 v. Vista" debate.

And for the record, I'm not a Vista fanboi or a Win7 hater. In fact, I'm doing a new build this week with an Asus P5N7A-VM board and a q9400 and it's getting the Win7 RC. I'm sure I'll be very happy with it.
 
1.) Music now works for me. Mine is all encoded in AAC because it sounds much better (less harsh) then MP3. I have a few Apple lossless tracks in my collection that is playable in 7MC. Under Vista none of them worked.

2.) No crashes/issues. Vista had this habit of crashing a lot under Vista. Could never find out what was actually causing (it was probably a Win update that did it).

3.) It handles my large media library without choking on it like VMC did.

There are more, those are ones off the top of my head that were stand outs to me.
 
I agree with SC385 as Windows 7 does offer so many new features and fantastic benefits. Windows 7 offers advanced security, enhanced performance, increased speed, fantastic stability and more. Win 7 also offers many new features such as BitLocker, BitLocker To Go, Branch Cache and more. To learn more about Windows 7 and how it can benefit every user check out Microsoft Springboard.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dd361745.aspx

Jessica
Microsoft Windows Client Team
 
JessicaD said:
I agree with SC385 as Windows 7 does offer so many new features and fantastic benefits. Windows 7 offers advanced security, enhanced performance, increased speed, fantastic stability and more. Win 7 also offers many new features such as BitLocker, BitLocker To Go, Branch Cache and more. To learn more about Windows 7 and how it can benefit every user check out Microsoft Springboard.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dd361745.aspx

Jessica
Microsoft Windows Client Team
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Good to know since drive encryption WAS my primary concern on my HTPC... :confused:
 
why not try LinuxMCE? watch at least the first video on that link...if you can get hardware that will run everything as smoothly as the dedicated hardware that they used in that video, it seems like it would blow away any M$ product out there.....

and after all, it's free....so if you don't like it, no biggie, you're not out any cash, only some time......
 
xXaNaXx said:
why not try LinuxMCE? watch at least the first video on that link...if you can get hardware that will run everything as smoothly as the dedicated hardware that they used in that video, it seems like it would blow away any M$ product out there.....

and after all, it's free....so if you don't like it, no biggie, you're not out any cash, only some time......
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Mostly cause most of the HTPC community, after playing around with it, consider it a joke. You need nearly exact hardware that was used on that test system to get anywhere near the same experience. It doesn't hand different hardware well. Several of the Linux HTPCers I know are really disappointed in it. That's enough for me to stay away.
 
You want something without bugs and works? Try the popcorn hour A110....hands down if you want something that works...and next to no fiddling to get it working. Now if you want to talk about user mods...there is a lot to tinker with...so much it's overwhelming at times.

If you want to wait...there is supposed to be a new C-200 model releasing next month with a bluray option...still don't know how they are going to make that work...

still...worth looking into. I have the A110 with the YAMJ front end...works fabulously. I live overseas in england at the moment, but I am only night of Bittorrent away from the latest tv episodes...

www.popcornhour.com
 
I'm sticking with Vista on the HTPC for the time being.

There's nothing wrong with 7, but I've got everything set up and working great on Vista. There's no reason to make the jump. My HTPC will probably be one of the last systems that gets upgraded to 7.
 
^---you might want to think again. I was skeptical as well. ;)

I decided to put Windows 7 RC on my main HTPC last night.

Here's how it went..

1. Installed Windows 7 32-bit
2. Installed Creative X-Fi Windows 7 driver and Nvidia Windows 7 driver.
3. Installed the new version of MediaBrowser
4. Installed CoreAVC 1.9.5.0 CUDA
5. Set CoreAVC to default h264 directshow filter for 7MC using the tool found on Doom9
6. Installed FFDshow for audio decoding only (AC3/DTS/FLAC/DD+/TrueHD)
7. ???
8. Profit!

It plays everything *perfectly*.. mkv x/h264, ts, avi, divx, xvid, wmvhd, mp4, mov, mpg, etc.

The new MediaBrowser under 7 Media Center is awesome. I set it up with the included Apple HD Movie Trailers plugin and Video Podcast plugin. It's all super smooth transitions from screen to screen, and every video type works flawlessly with no need to tweak the hell out of the registry like with Vista Media Center. All my high def movies and TV series show up instantly (I have 200+ movies and 7 complete tv series all in HD being pulled from my file server over gig-E). There's no stuttering during playback or anything. Also, my VL System VFD readout on my HTPC case also works under Windows 7 Media Center whereas with Vista Media Center it would just display one screen saying "Media Center" or something along those lines. It now works showing the file I'm playing with the live time code. Needless to say, I'm extremely happy.

If I have time, I'll take a video of it or something. It's pretty impressive.
 
w1retap said:
It's all super smooth transitions from screen to screen, and every video type works flawlessly with no need to tweak the hell out of the registry like with Vista Media Center. All my high def movies and TV series show up instantly (I have 200+ movies and 7 complete tv series all in HD being pulled from my file server over gig-E).
There's no stuttering during playback or anything.
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I have had a similar setup for years, never had to do any registry tweaking at all to get things to play in media center. I just use a codec pack (K-lite). I know they aren't popular around here, but it works.

I don't use any plugins like MediaBrowser, I just point the Videos section to the Videos directory on my fileserver. Works fine, same effect.

Also, my VL System VFD readout on my HTPC case also works under Windows 7 Media Center whereas with Vista Media Center it would just display one screen saying "Media Center" or something along those lines. It now works showing the file I'm playing with the live time code. Needless to say, I'm extremely happy.
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I'm not currently using a VFD, but my last case had one and it worked fine in Vista.

I'm not knocking your setup or anything, I'm just saying that at the moment I don't have any pressing reason to upgrade the HTPC to 7.
 
- K-lite... Good luck with directshow hardware accelerated playback for various HD video types and containers. It royally screws up your registry, so if you ever want to change anything codec-wise, you'll either have to restore your registry to before you did the install, or repair/reformat the computer.

- If you're just using the Vista "videos" section in VMC, you're not getting the same effect at all, and you're missing out on a lot of features. Coverflow art, skinning and different view type abilities, TV season management, movie management, movie/tv database backdrops and thumbnails, regularly updated metadata from places like imdb, etc.

- My VFD was just my personal experience.. nothing that applies to you, so don't worry about it.

But yeah, considering you're using K-lite and the VMC videos tab, you're really missing out. FYI, I'm not knocking you, I'm correcting you. There's a difference, because it's factual information, whereas when you critiqued me, you just made comments to belittle the experience. It doesn't help people looking for information based on Windows 7 in any way.
 
w1retap said:
- K-lite... Good luck with directshow hardware accelerated playback for various HD video types and containers. It royally screws up your registry, so if you ever want to change anything codec-wise, you'll either have to restore your registry to before you did the install, or repair/reformat the computer.
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Everything plays just fine, so what's the problem? I've never had any issues with it and everything looks and sounds great.
- If you're just using the Vista "videos" section in VMC, you're not getting the same effect at all, and you're missing out on a lot of features. Coverflow art, skinning and different view type abilities, TV season management, movie management, movie/tv database backdrops and thumbnails, regularly updated metadata from places like imdb, etc.
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Yeah, the movie cover art feature is neat, I just haven't bothered to set up any plug-ins. The other stuff isn't a big deal to me personally.

By "same effect" I meant that just using the videos section lets me pull movies off my fileserver easily, not that it gives me all the same features as whatever plugins you're using, sorry.


- My VFD was just my personal experience.. nothing that applies to you, so don't worry about it.
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Then why did you bring it up?

FYI, I'm not knocking you, I'm correcting you. There's a difference, because it's factual information, whereas when you critiqued me, you just made comments to belittle the experience.
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I think you're the one "belittling" me here. :rolleyes: :)

All I did was point out that I didn't have to tweak anything to get everything to play in Vista Media Center. Plugins and such are all a personal taste thing, and as far as I know you can get all the same functionality with VMC plugins.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
Everything plays just fine, so what's the problem? I've never had any issues with it and everything looks and sounds great.

Yeah, the movie cover art feature is neat, I just haven't bothered to set up any plug-ins. The other stuff isn't a big deal to me personally. There are plug ins for Vista that do the same thing.

I think you're the one "belittling" me here. :rolleyes: :)
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- Everything may work just fine "for you", but not for people who want the best media center experience with a clean setup. You cannot claim it works fine for the majority. What video and container types are you using, and what hardware acceleration method are you taking advantage of?

- The plug-in is made for integration with Windows 7, thus I pointed it out because people are always looking for good initial support when the OS comes out, especially in the HTPC community. The seamless integration and smooth 2D/3D effects with high resolution art/backdrops filled with rich metadata is what enthusiasts are looking for now.

- No, again, I'm correcting you.

Please, if you're going to just strive for the minimal, don't post here. This is [H]ardForum, and we tend to be enthusiasts looking for the best... not something that just may get the job done for a few.
 
JohnDC said:
You still need PowerDVD, TMT, or WinDVD to play BD discs. If you rip them first, there are other options.
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That sucks.

For me Windows 7 runs smoother and there are interface tweaks and changes that I really like. Such as being able to right click on a computer on the network and RDP to it. Better integration with Virtual PC 2007, etc. The list goes on. All minor stuff but it adds up for me.
 
w1retap said:
- Everything may work just fine "for you", but not for people who want the best media center experience with a clean setup. You cannot claim it works fine for the majority. What video and container types are you using, and what hardware acceleration method are you taking advantage of?
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I have a bit of everything including a lot of old Xvid AVIs, although lately I've been using MakeMKV to do DVD and Blu Ray rips.

What difference does it make if I'm using hardware accelleration or not? My media center has a rather weak 2.5 GHz Pentium E5200 and plays full quality Blu Ray rips just fine.

Please, if you're going to just strive for the minimal, don't post here. This is [H]ardForum, and we tend to be enthusiasts looking for the best... not something that just may get the job done for a few.
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Take your attitude and shove it. I was commenting on the fact that my videos play just fine with no tweaking in VMC, not about the plugins you use.
 
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DeathFromBelow said:
I use a bit of everything, although lately I've been using MakeMKV to do DVD and Blu Ray rips.

What difference does it make if I'm using hardware accelleration or not? My media center has a rather weak 2.5 GHz Pentium E5200 and plays full quality Blu Ray rips just fine.


Take your attitude and shove it.
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- It makes a difference when you have video that will not play back smoothly on your processor, and to ensure you'll get no stuttering or dropped frames or out of sync audio regardless of the encode. It will also ensure you use the hardware for consistent video quality and color that matches the original encode. Again, you really don't get it. It's not what works best "for you".. it's what works best for *us* being the people of the forum. I guarantee you won't playback a 30-50mbit h264 stream without hardware acceleration on a low power HTPC setup. If you don't believe me, try it on a 35w or 45w AMD, or a Nvidia Ion w/ Atom, etc.

- There's no attitude. I am trying to look out for the people who don't want to be misinformed.
 
w1retap said:
I guarantee you won't playback a 30-50mbit h264 stream without hardware acceleration on a low power HTPC setup. If you don't believe me, try it on a 35w or 45w AMD, or a Nvidia Ion w/ Atom, etc.
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No doubt about it on the Atom, but the Pentium/newer Athlon X2's are fine. I put together a HTPC for my dad with an X2 4850e (45w, 2.5 GHz) and it was able to play the Blu Ray rips without any issues.

I've compared playing from the original Blu Ray disk and the rip and I can't tell the difference, so unless hardware accelleration cooks my dinner and gives me a blowjob I don't see why you think its such a big deal. :)
 
A 4850e will not. I have two of them in my builds, and have done several builds for others with that processor. It needs help from hardware acceleration. A Pentium is even worse. Again, do not spread this disinformation here. It isn't going to help anyone.
 
w1retap said:
A 4850e will not. I have two of them in my builds, and have done several builds for others with that processor. It needs help from hardware acceleration. Again, do not spread this disinformation here. It isn't going to help anyone.
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I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree then. Good day.
 
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