Windows 7 To Be Generally Available Oct 22

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bonsai said:
I'm sure if your livelihood depended on receiving just compensation for your work, such as an artist or an independent developer, you'd be changing your selfish, self-aggrandizing tune pretty quickly. The internet has definitely changed something. That something is called unjustified self-entitlement.
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False. I am a creative writer, but do not expect revenue from it. I made a choice not to live primarily as a writer because I would not charge for my work. I am currently employed in the business services sector.

Many of you argue that just because it is possible to do something, it does not mean that we should. But I have no reason to believe that we should not in the first place. The value of things are determined by supply and demand, end of story. Digital goods have an infinite supply. Musicians are still making money, movie studios are still making money, software and game developers are still making money, authors, etc...but somehow piracy is a huge problem that needs to be stopped. I don't see it the problem.

I don't have an inherent right to be paid for my work unless I have a contract with whoever is receiving my services, in which case the contract must be enforced. Otherwise I could walk up to your car and wash it, and you would have to pay me whatever amount I elected to charge you.
 
Phyltre said:
False. I am a creative writer, but do not expect revenue from it. I made a choice not to live primarily as a writer because I would not charge for my work. I am currently employed in the business services sector.

Many of you argue that just because it is possible to do something, it does not mean that we should. But I have no reason to believe that we should not in the first place. The value of things are determined by supply and demand, end of story. Digital goods have an infinite supply. Musicians are still making money, movie studios are still making money, software and game developers are still making money, authors, etc...but somehow piracy is a huge problem that needs to be stopped. I don't see it the problem.

I don't have an inherent right to be paid for my work unless I have a contract with whoever is receiving my services, in which case the contract must be enforced. Otherwise I could walk up to your car and wash it, and you would have to pay me whatever amount I elected to charge you.
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At last count, you're not the only creative writer on the planet. Go hug a tree.
 
which usually means people want their "product" free. if free, then how is the economy supposed to operate? :D

bonsai said:
And we'll only agree with these new models if it meets our specific agendas and fulfill our personal motives.
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CEpeep said:
Microsoft is a poor example in this argument, because they would rather have you pirate their software than use a competitor's.
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well, if that is true, then it completely blows away any and every argument that piracy causes loss. which isnt true.. but it still shows how piracy really is a two-sided coin and its not as cut and dry and some want it to be.
 
Phyltre said:
False. I am a creative writer, but do not expect revenue from it. I made a choice not to live primarily as a writer because I would not charge for my work. I am currently employed in the business services sector.

Many of you argue that just because it is possible to do something, it does not mean that we should. But I have no reason to believe that we should not in the first place. The value of things are determined by supply and demand, end of story. Digital goods have an infinite supply. Musicians are still making money, movie studios are still making money, software and game developers are still making money, authors, etc...but somehow piracy is a huge problem that needs to be stopped. I don't see it the problem.
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its because writing is art. so is music. so are paintings. its NOT supposed to be a strict business where you shove out shovel fulls of shit and expect to live on it (mpaa).

its people like you that will be relaxed when creating your writing, and possibly someday have a best-selling book and become very rich.




and then later on complain about people downloading your books on the internet haha j/jk:D
 
Azhar said:
At last count, you're not the only creative writer on the planet. Go hug a tree.
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You know, I rarely do this (and I'll probably get a vacation for saying it), but you really are a dick.

JediFonger said:
which usually means people want their "product" free. if free, then how is the economy supposed to operate? :D
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A product can be free and the creator of said product can monetize it in an alternative way. Take a look at Nine Inch Nails' The Slip, for instance. The album is freely available, but it served as a good marketing piece to garner interest in the tours. There was also the traditional CD release, and the incentive for buying that were the tangible goodies like the liner notes and stickers (things the fans like). Software can be monetized with donations. Musicians can offer various intangible incentives for those who buy the deluxe versions of their albums (spend $250 and you get to eat lunch or just hang out with the band, for example).

Some of these are really excellent ideas for monetizing freely-released games as well, but for some reasons developers and publishers aren't saddling up for the alternatives yet. I mean, if id released a $400 copy of Doom 4 that included lunch with John Carmack and a tour of id HQ, can you imagine how many people would bite on that? (I would!)

Tons of great ideas out there. Some workable; some not, but at least we're starting to see content producers exploring the alternatives.
 
I've always found it interesting that creative markets are monetized in the most uncreative ways.
 
Azhar said:
He presumed to speak for all writers, which is a little arrogant in my book. Why do you side with his kind and thieves all the time?
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i see nothing where he states he speaks for all writers. In fact, i see explicit words that indicates he is speaking his opinion, and expressing how he feels the industry should operate.

FYI, I side against emotional people that aren't rational.
 
spacetrader said:
well, if that is true, then it completely blows away any and every argument that piracy causes loss. which isnt true.. but it still shows how piracy really is a two-sided coin and its not as cut and dry and some want it to be.
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It's true, and it's why I don't buy any Microsoft software. I use it where I need to, but I never buy it. At this time, I'm using an academic license of XP, and a free copy of Server 2008 that I got through Dreamspark. The upside here is that there's honestly little reason to pirate anything Microsoft makes, because they seem to enjoy giving it away for free (through perfectly legal methods) to almost anyone. Luckily, though, the open source initiative has provided software suitable for 95% of what I do. Even on my Windows boxes, nearly all of the software I use is open source. The rest of it is free under other terms. I didn't pay for any of the software on this computer, but that doesn't mean I pirated it.
 
Phyltre said:
False. I am a creative writer, but do not expect revenue from it. I made a choice not to live primarily as a writer because I would not charge for my work. I am currently employed in the business services sector.

Many of you argue that just because it is possible to do something, it does not mean that we should. But I have no reason to believe that we should not in the first place. The value of things are determined by supply and demand, end of story. Digital goods have an infinite supply. Musicians are still making money, movie studios are still making money, software and game developers are still making money, authors, etc...but somehow piracy is a huge problem that needs to be stopped. I don't see it the problem.

I don't have an inherent right to be paid for my work unless I have a contract with whoever is receiving my services, in which case the contract must be enforced. Otherwise I could walk up to your car and wash it, and you would have to pay me whatever amount I elected to charge you.
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Alright. Before I get into this, check my post history. I don't usually lay into people... ever.

You're a flaming idiot. First of all, the post you responded to said specifically:
"...if your livelihood depended on you receiving compensation for your work..." You are a creative writer by hobby, and a business services sector worker by trade. I'm an artist and biologist by hobby and training, yet when I finish law school, I will be an attorney by trade.

I can understand myself doing an art piece for free, or even participating in research for free. But when I go on to practice law, I have to feed my family, and will be raising kids and putting aside for college and retirement etc... I will not be practicing law for free. I will be compensated for my work. Just as you are for your work in the 'business services sector', whatever the hell that means.

Second, you argue that because something is possible, then it should be done. Bullshit. You CAN go out and murder someone, steal cars etc, but unless you are speaking in a purely Darwinian sense, (that you would be eventually removing yourself from the gene pool and removing those too weak or stupid to prevent your acts as well) you should not. Granted, ethics and morals are subjective, but we are talking about copyright law here, where those are not primary considerations, simply whether or not the law was broken.

Third, you make a terrible, and really stoopid (on purpose for emphasis and to reflect the comment's complete lack of sense) comment regarding the scale of the earnings of the owners of the property. Lets say that your 'business services sector' boss decided to cut your pay in half. His comments being along the lines of, " Don't complain, I'm still paying you." You'd be pissed. You may not be able to survive on it, and at least you would have to make some serious changes to your lifestyle. The amount of money made on a product has nothing to do with whether or not it deserves to be ripped off.

Finally you state that you "...don't have an inherent right to be paid for [your] work...". Not true at all, unless you are doing it pro bono in the first place. And that's not really a good comparison because we are talking about copyright here. When you create anything in terms of ANY content that is new/original etc, you poses a copyright on it. Now, of course if it is not registered, you have some limited rights in terms of compensation and the ability to sue others for its use and what fair use is compared to if it is registered, but none the less, you OWN that work, and you have rights towards any income based on it.

If I do a painting and post it to my personal website, and some douchebag (you) comes along and prints it and submits it to a magazine and gets paid for it. That's infringement on my work, and I have claims towards that income. Now replace 'painting', above, with any kind of creative work (music, movie, picture, photo, drawing, invention etc...), and 'I' with any entity, (musician, university, business, corporation, country, average Joe, computer program) and the scenario really does not change. The scale of the entity involved, the income accrued, and the nature of the work, or whether a license for a product's use is involved, is independent of reality:

If you live in this world, in any modern, 1st world country, then you better be ready to GO TO JAIL, if you decide to steal my shit and make money off of it or use it. Period.
If you don't like it, either get on a spaceship and leave, move to zimbabwe, find the stargate (rofls, I'm addicted now), or kill yourself. Those are really your options.
 
CEpeep said:
It's true, and it's why I don't buy any Microsoft software. I use it where I need to, but I never buy it. At this time, I'm using an academic license of XP, and a free copy of Server 2008 that I got through Dreamspark. The upside here is that there's honestly little reason to pirate anything Microsoft makes, because they seem to enjoy giving it away for free (through perfectly legal methods) to almost anyone. Luckily, though, the open source initiative has provided software suitable for 95% of what I do. Even on my Windows boxes, nearly all of the software I use is open source. The rest of it is free under other terms. I didn't pay for any of the software on this computer, but that doesn't mean I pirated it.
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i do wish i could be like that too. i refuse to buy consoles though, so pc is my gaming platform. and i couldnt do without windows media center...
 
Modred189 said:
Alright. Before I get into this, check my post history. I don't usually lay into people... ever
....snip...
Those are really your options.
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One more thing. You state that you are a creative writer, but do not expect income for it because you would not charge for it. (I suspect it may be because your not very good and there's no demand)

That's your decision and no one else has to follow suit. If I write a book, I'm going to get paid for it if someone buys it. That's my decision.
 
Modred189 said:
One more thing. You state that you are a creative writer, but do not expect income for it because you would not charge for it. (I suspect it may be because your not very good and there's no demand)

That's your decision and no one else has to follow suit. If I write a book, I'm going to get paid for it if someone buys it. That's my decision.
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/End rant, back OT> Keep the rest to PM's so as not to derail the thread any more.
 
Three bannings later, 177 posts, I would say we are done.
 
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