dr.stevil
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while true, I just prefer the "on the fly" approach that NS offers
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Windows 7 Raises Complaints from Rivals
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
while true, I just prefer the "on the fly" approach that NS offers
Bone_Enterprise
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I would hate it if Windows didn't come with a browser. How am I supposed to download another browser if I don't have a browser in the first place?
Well clearly they are supposed to pre-load every damn open source application on it so people can use it without having to download and install it themselves, that way there will always be a browser on the box.
Yes. This is what they should do.
seriously.
Make the crap (windows components) modular so that you can actually get an install without all the junk you don't want on there. Then they could include an Appstore type of system that developers can upload and distribute their software on that is available on a base system. That way it'll be *clicky* *clicky* for all of these users that everyone seems to think are drooling idiots, and people who want the granularity would be able to manage the software on their system better.
Clean installs, tighter relationship with developers, and they may even be able to make a buck.
I would hate it if Windows didn't come with a browser. How am I supposed to download another browser if I don't have a browser in the first place?
You can turn off IE8, along with pretty much anything else that comes with Windows. That should be enough to keep everyone happy.
Nope, because that doesn't force everyone to use their software. Sure you can turn of IE8, but why would you want to since it works. That doesn't force you to go use Firefox. So that isn't good enough.
fixed
You can turn off the Awesome Bar
What that should really say is: "We are afraid that people who get a new computer will think IE8 is "good enough" and they wont install Firefox again."
Why does Mozilla even care? It's not like they make money per install or they even have a buisness model. How the hell do they even survive? Do they just mooch off corporations and beg in board rooms or something? lol
I use Firefox and would probably never go back to IE, simple as that.
The problem with your fix is that in an out of date verison of IE is installed also. However windows update takes care of that.
I think that if these guys are so hell bend on getting their browswer out there they should start paying Dell, HP and those guys to start installing it on every new computer. They use to do that with Netscape.
I use the awesome bar so much that I miss it when I'm forced to use IE at work. It's very useful once you get used to it.
BX_TECH_GOD
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My question is how come these same web browser developers aren't complaining to Apple about the same issue? Why the MS bashing only??
Actually they do. Google funds them ;-)
OMFGLOL Yea, Mozilla needs to compete fairly with Lynx! Lynx is so neglected by people these days with all their heretical pictures and videos! It's not FAIR! WHHHAAAAAAAA!
Because Microsoft is where the money is. They're not after right and wrong. They're after paychecks.
HaMMerHeD
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Then they need to quit "selling" a free product.
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opera > FF anyway after FF hit version 3...
Bone_Enterprise
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Umm, what?
You are paying for the OS not the browser?
Unless I am totally missing something.
It's free to users. But they're being paid by Google. Google would not fund them if they didn't think they had a chance in the browser market.
He's talking about Firefox
InorganicMatter
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Okay fine, don't include an internet browser. Then no one will be able to download Firefox/Chrome/Opera.
Everyone knows what these guys want. Mozilla won't be happy until Firefox is included with Windows. Which in that case, Google and Opera will start complaining. Even if they include the big 4 with Windows, the geeks will complain about bloat, and all the little time browsers like Konqueror will start complaining as well.
Microsoft has done a great job with IE in Windows 7. It is now completely and fully disconnected from the operating system. You can go into Add/Remove Programs, uncheck IE, the files will physically disappear from your computer, and (unlike XP/Vista) the computer will run just fine without IE. That's as good a job as anyone could do.
I know, let's sue Ubuntu because they include Firefox but not Chrome! Antitrust, conspiracy with Mozilla!!!
Everyone knows what these guys want. Mozilla won't be happy until Firefox is included with Windows. Which in that case, Google and Opera will start complaining. Even if they include the big 4 with Windows, the geeks will complain about bloat, and all the little time browsers like Konqueror will start complaining as well.
Microsoft has done a great job with IE in Windows 7. It is now completely and fully disconnected from the operating system. You can go into Add/Remove Programs, uncheck IE, the files will physically disappear from your computer, and (unlike XP/Vista) the computer will run just fine without IE. That's as good a job as anyone could do.
I know, let's sue Ubuntu because they include Firefox but not Chrome! Antitrust, conspiracy with Mozilla!!!
I think that guy was joking about that...just didn't add the sarcasm tags necessary.
HaMMerHeD
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Obviously, but to what end? I don't know anything about the Mozilla Foundation, but how exactly do they plan to ever make money? What is the use of competing in the browser market when you are selling a free product? Other than to give users choice, which is fine, what are they in this for?
Methinks it is mostly about the open source community's blind hate for Microsoft.
That's not entirely true. The IE API is still there even after you uninstall it because so many Microsoft (and other) applications use functions within that API.
But hasn't Mozilla been around longer than Microsoft's browser?
Mosaic, Netscape, Gecko, Mozilla, then Firefox, right? I might be wrong.
This is so stupid, and I wish they would just give it up already.
As others have said, it makes no sense for MS to install anything OTHER than Internet Explorer with its operating system. ESPECIALLY because Microsoft has more control over the end-user experience when they use IE than any other browser. What would happen if they shipped Windows disks with a browser that had vulnerabilities that MS was unable to patch themselves, or had an update that caused problems with Windows?
Anytime I do a fresh install of Windows, the VERY FIRST thing I install is Firefox... then I close IE, load up Firefox, and download everything else I need. I just don't get the point of all this griping.
As others have said, it makes no sense for MS to install anything OTHER than Internet Explorer with its operating system. ESPECIALLY because Microsoft has more control over the end-user experience when they use IE than any other browser. What would happen if they shipped Windows disks with a browser that had vulnerabilities that MS was unable to patch themselves, or had an update that caused problems with Windows?
Anytime I do a fresh install of Windows, the VERY FIRST thing I install is Firefox... then I close IE, load up Firefox, and download everything else I need. I just don't get the point of all this griping.
Bone_Enterprise
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Ah, right.
You know, thats a very valid point. Its now the OS with over 1% desktop market share. Shouldn't we be getting Opera into those installs. We need to get President Obama in on this one. I shall dub the campaign:
"Firefox, its for the children!"
As far as the IE API still being attached when you uninstall the browser. So what, API's don't = running software, API's = platforms to make running software.
I'm not one to generally bitch and complain about this sorta stuff, I realize there's options, and I tell others I know about those options, if they choose to use them or not, thats entirely up to them. If you have a PC and you're on the internet for a total of 7 days, you'll learn about those alternatives anyway, and make the educated decision to do or don't use.
As far as making itself the default browser. I installed FF 3.0, guess what it did! It asked me if I wanted to make it my default browser, that bastard application
Yes I know, it doesn't ask, because alternatives are NOT part of its install routine, and therefore it makes logical sense to me to set itself as default. Every damn browser asks you when you install it, I don't see where the tears are coming from on this one.InorganicMatter
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You know how when you install Firefox, the default homepage is Google? Yeah, Google pays them big bucks for that. (Google paid them $66m in 2007.) They are making plenty of money on "free" software, they just do a good job keep their innocent appearance so they don't get rejected by the open-souce purists.
HaMMerHeD
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Yes, it has. Netscape used to be a retail boxed product that you could buy in stores. If I am not mistaken, Mozilla was the name of the HTML rendering engine developed by Netscape to compete with the Mosaic engine (which MS eventually "adopted" into IE).
When IE4 came out, Netscape started declining in popularity and eventually dissolved after changing hands a time or two. The remnants of those developers founded the Mozilla Foundation (actually before Netscape disappeared entirely), which is how we came to where we are.
Before IE5, I was a firm Netscape user. With IE5, I began to no longer care to download a nextra piece of software that gave me no more or better functionality than what I already had.
But the question stands: What is in this for Mozilla?
Obviously, a product competing with IE gives Microsoft a good reason to keep developing IE. Look how long IE6 stagnated while Mozilla was leaping ahead of it. But if anybody out there actually thinks that Mozilla staffers actually want Microsoft to improve IE, I believe they are sorely mistaken.
I tend to view Mozilla, and Firefox specifically, as mostly a thumbing of the nose by open source developers to Microsoft, as if the whole thing is an experiment to prove Eric S. Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar".
Orinthical
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It's a Microsoft's product and they should be able to include anything they want in it so long as they aren't actively preventing the installation of any competing product. I seriously doubt that if Mozilla designed an OS that they'd be so kind. Oh wait - they'd probably use *nix as a base where IE can't be installed. Oh wait - just about every linux distro out there now ships with Firefox! I demand Linux ship without Firefox!
I love my Firefox but if Mozilla turns this into yet another anti-trust case, they can kiss my usage and donations goodbye. Microsoft should not be on the hook to include anything external in their base install and shipping the OS without a browser would be a huge mistake for the majority of users out there. Keep in mind that the majority are power-users and an OS without a default browser would be like shipping the computer without a mouse because users have a choice in mice.
Make a better product and people will use it. End of story.
I love my Firefox but if Mozilla turns this into yet another anti-trust case, they can kiss my usage and donations goodbye. Microsoft should not be on the hook to include anything external in their base install and shipping the OS without a browser would be a huge mistake for the majority of users out there. Keep in mind that the majority are power-users and an OS without a default browser would be like shipping the computer without a mouse because users have a choice in mice.
Make a better product and people will use it. End of story.
Are they also complaining that Mac users get Safari for free?
Pick on the big guy... there are lots of programs included with an operating systems. When you buy a car you shouldn't need to buy the tires and steering wheel separate, so why would you want a computer that can't go anywhere.
BTW the average user can't download FF or Opera if they don't have a pre-installed browser... lol. Think about that one.
Pick on the big guy... there are lots of programs included with an operating systems. When you buy a car you shouldn't need to buy the tires and steering wheel separate, so why would you want a computer that can't go anywhere.
BTW the average user can't download FF or Opera if they don't have a pre-installed browser... lol. Think about that one.
Orinthical
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Keep in mind that the majority of users out there are NOT power-users and an OS without a default browser would be like shipping the computer without a mouse because users have a choice in mice.
Back in Feb, Firefox folks were saying they DID NOT want to be bundled with Windows. I guess they changed their tune since not whining wouldn't gain free publicity.
Ref here - http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246913/firefox-exec-we-dont-want-to-be-bundled-with-windows.html
That's not Microsoft's problem. Mozilla needs to step up with marketing and PR if they want to be known. It's not Microsoft's responsibility to advertise third party software.
This just in, adobe is complaining because windows comes with microsoft paint preinstalled as the default image editor. Adobe says that this is clearly an attempt to undermine thier right to sell image editing software. In other news, OpenOffice is mad because windows comes with Wordpad AND Notepad.
If only that were true...
It's astounding the number of people in this thread that are missing the point entirely. They aren't complaining about IE8 being bundled with Win7. I repeat, they are NOT whining about IE8 being bundled with Win7. It's amazing how most people only hear what they want to hear.
Then what ARE they complaining about? Please be specific, as I read the linked article, and that is PRECISELY what the article said they were complaining about:
Lets see.. Next version of windows = Windows 7.
gives an unfair advantage to MS IE browser = IE 8, which comes with Windows 7.
Using the windows OS to change the market dynamics of browser usage = WHINING ABOUT IE8 BEING INCLUDED WITH WINDOWS 7.
I don't know how much more clear it could get, but please elaborate and tell us what this BS complaing is about...