Windows 7 PC users refusing to move to Windows 10

[nilepez]

Even with it being free that's just not enough to get me and many many others to make use of it. There are lots of things that are free of monetary cost - that doesn't mean you're not paying for them in some manner.

Microsoft isn't giving Windows 10 away for the first year of release for free and not getting something out of the deal so it's costing end users whether they're cognizant of that fact or not.

I won't be willfully ignorant of what's going on, and I highly recommend nobody else be that way either.

It gets them closer to supporting one OS. The ultimate savings is dramatic and if they managed to get virtually all consumers to move, then, I suspect, it'd save them a lot of support costs. Note that my assumption (which may be invalid) is that businesses tend to have less diverse h/w. I know where I work, pretty much everything is a dell desktop or laptop and they're generally plain vanilla. Last company was the same thing (may have been a different brand, but it was from a big pc builder).

All of that ultimately benefits me the end user. Now will this work out? Ask me in 6 months. So far, I think it's fine, though I've heard that Threshold 2 had some issues at launch, which tells me they probably don't have enough diversity on the fast track program.

 

[jyi786]

No, I'm not a Troll. See my profile. Honestly I have no idea why I am posting here, I'll go back to what I was doing and leave you underlings to your happy thoughts.

Well if you're not a troll (and your sig is legit), care to chime in on why MS is being so shady on the telemetry thing? I already know a number of enterprises which have banned upgrades to 10 because of it, mine being one of them. And no, it's not a free upgrade for enterprises.

 

[daglesj]

The problem is MASSIVE UPDATE and the risks that go with it...for very little of value to the end user on a regular basis.

It's hassle. I want updates that take 10 minutes tops (worst case) and a simple reboot and back up and running. Not have to set aside half a day to get a slight change to the start menu or some other crappy new Metro type app I never use.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well if you're not a troll (and your sig is legit), care to chime in on why MS is being so shady on the telemetry thing? I already know a number of enterprises which have banned upgrades to 10 because of it, mine being one of them. And no, it's not a free upgrade for enterprises.

The process for disabling all telemetry for enterprises has been documented by Microsoft.

 

[Commander Suzdal]

The fact that 8/8.1 is still rising really tells the story. No one actually chooses 8/8.1 if they have a choice. That is a clear indicator that people are mostly just using whatever OS that their PC comes with. There are a LOT of computers out there in stores that still have 8.1, or even 7. Stores are probably dumping their Windows 7/8.1 PCs with pre-christmas, black-friday style deals. I would bet that Christmas is when we will see a big surge of Win10 adoption - people will finally be buying Win10 devices in bulk.

When you see Windows 7 numbers continuing to be strong, it's mostly people just sticking with what they have, rather than having made an informed decision not to upgrade because they believe 7 is better. Pretty much the same thought process of the majority of consumers who are still using XP. Lots of people don't like change, and fear of change is a strong motivator. There is a big sense of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and while I respect the logic in that, it doesn't mean progress is pointless. I mean, just look at how Windows 8 (not 8.1) by itself has nearly 3%. 8.1 has been out for a very long time... And look at all of the people who couldn't even be bothered to install what amounts to a service pack. Do you really think those people are doing so because they think 8 is better than 8.1?

You said what I was thinking, and did a better job at that. It's all just inertia and sell-off of old stock.

 

[jyi786]

The process for disabling all telemetry for enterprises has been documented by Microsoft.

Try again. So far, it's is impossible to completely disable it.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx#BKMK_UTC_Basic
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx#BKMK_UTC_Security

Direct quote from that MSDN article.

No user content, such as user files or communications, is gathered at the Security telemetry level, and we take steps to avoid gathering any information that directly identifies a company or user, such as name, email address, or account ID. However, in rare circumstances, MSRT information may unintentionally contain personal information. For instance, some malware may create entries in a computer’s registry that include information such as a username, causing it to be gathered. MSRT reporting is optional and can be turned off at any time.

This is what Microsoft chooses to tell us. As for my organization, we've already been in countless talks with MS reps about Windows 10, as we are very much a MS only shop. Every single conversation we've had with them about this, we've left more flustered than before, because they simply won't tell us with a straight answer whether or not we can completely disable telemetry once and for all.

 

[heatlesssun]

Try again. So far, it's is impossible to completely disable it.

No, it's not: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx#BKMK_UTC

Additional telemetry controls

There are a few more settings that you can turn off that may send telemetry information:

•To turn off Windows Update telemetry, you have two choices. Either turn off Windows Update, or set your devices to be managed by an on premises update server, such as Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) or System Center Configuration Manager.


•Turn off Windows Defender Cloud-based Protection and Automatic sample submission in Settings > Update & security > Windows Defender.


•Manage the Malicious Software Removal Tool in your organization. For more info, see Microsoft KB article 891716.


•Turn off Linguistic Data Collection in Settings > Privacy. At telemetry levels Enhanced and Full, Microsoft uses Linguistic Data Collection info to improve language model features such as autocomplete, spellcheck, suggestions, input pattern recognition, and dictionary. For more info, see the Get to know me setting in the Speech, inking, & typing section of this article and the Send Microsoft info about how I write to help us improve typing and writing in the future setting in the General section of this article.

Note
Microsoft doesn't intentionally gather sensitive information, such as credit card numbers, usernames and passwords, email addresses, or other similarly sensitive information for Linguistic Data Collection. We guard against such events by using technologies to identify and remove sensitive information before linguistic data is sent from the user's device. If we determine that sensitive information has been inadvertently received, we delete the information.

 

[P4B]

I put win10 on one of my comps and have had no good reason to keep it. After it fails to work ill just put win7 back on.

 

[jyi786]

No, it's not: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85).aspx#BKMK_UTC

Did you just completely ignore everything I wrote, quoted, and linked to directly from the same article?

As it stands currently, YOU CANNOT TURN OFF TELEMETRY. Read the levels, where their "Security" level is the lowest level, and where they admit that some data can get captured, although they say it with a "malware" slant (which ironically is the behavior they are engaging in).

 

[NeoZer0]

Well if you're not a troll (and your sig is legit), care to chime in on why MS is being so shady on the telemetry thing? I already know a number of enterprises which have banned upgrades to 10 because of it, mine being one of them. And no, it's not a free upgrade for enterprises.

How about this?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesley-hammond-4016215

I don't pretend to know everything about the Windows OS, anyone who tells you they do is a liar. What I do work with is Windows Security and Crypto. I think Microsoft stands to gain from the support of a single OS. Just like the support for IE 8, 9 and 10 going away and them only supporting IE 11. Don't get me wrong, Win 7 is a great OS but security has come a long way since it's release and there are alot of things that just can't be done in the OS. Those that are bashing Win 10, fine whatever but I have been using Win 10 for a while and I feel it is beautiful OS, full of new features and enhancements. I don't think Microsoft has claimed that it is going to work great on everything. When you are prompted to upgrade on the Win 7 Home, Business, and Pro versions it's only after the updater has determined you will have decent driver support. Honestly, every issue I have seen on Win 10 to this point has been driver based issues, friends trying to install it even though they have devices that won't support it.

As for the telemetry thing, I honestly don't get involved with that. There has been a ton of internal training about legal uses of customer data and being open about the data we collect and how it is used.

 

[jyi786]

How about this?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesley-hammond-4016215

As for the telemetry thing, I honestly don't get involved with that. There has been a ton of internal training about legal uses of customer data and being open about the data we collect and how it is used.

Thanks for verifying you're not a troll.

That being said, the question still remains. Adoption of Windows 10 is not all that it's being made out to be, other than being forced down users throats. Telemetry/privacy is a huge issue and until it gets sorted out, people/businesses are just not going to move.

 

[heatlesssun]

Did you just completely ignore everything I wrote, quoted, and linked to directly from the same article?

As it stands currently, YOU CANNOT TURN OFF TELEMETRY. Read the levels, where their "Security" level is the lowest level, and where they admit that some data can get captured, although they say it with a "malware" slant (which ironically is the behavior they are engaging in).

By configuring telemetry at the Security level, and turning off all other connections to Microsoft services, Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Education users can prevent Windows from sending any data to Microsoft.

From the TechNet link we've been passing around.

 

[jyi786]

From the TechNet link we've been passing around.

If you actually read the details of the Security telemetry level, it is in direct contradiction to their own statement which you quoted. It's literally there in black and white. The technical details, as sparse as it is, speaks to more than a blanket statement at the beginning which you are taking at face value.

 

[Mr45]

If we determine that sensitive information has been inadvertently received, we delete the information.

...and therein lies the rub.

 

[heatlesssun]

If you actually read the details of the Security telemetry level, it is in direct contradiction to their own statement which you quoted. It's literally there in black and white. The technical details, as sparse as it is, speaks to more than a blanket statement at the beginning which you are taking at face value.

There are other things that have to be disabled. For instance, if one is using Windows Update, well duh, that has to send info to Microsoft and has to be disabled if the idea is to send NO information to Microsoft.

This is getting crazy. People are freaking out over basic services that by their essence have to share data to function.

 

[Scizyr]

How about this?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesley-hammond-4016215

I don't pretend to know everything about the Windows OS, anyone who tells you they do is a liar. What I do work with is Windows Security and Crypto. I think Microsoft stands to gain from the support of a single OS. Just like the support for IE 8, 9 and 10 going away and them only supporting IE 11. Don't get me wrong, Win 7 is a great OS but security has come a long way since it's release and there are alot of things that just can't be done in the OS. Those that are bashing Win 10, fine whatever but I have been using Win 10 for a while and I feel it is beautiful OS, full of new features and enhancements. I don't think Microsoft has claimed that it is going to work great on everything. When you are prompted to upgrade on the Win 7 Home, Business, and Pro versions it's only after the updater has determined you will have decent driver support. Honestly, every issue I have seen on Win 10 to this point has been driver based issues, friends trying to install it even though they have devices that won't support it.

As for the telemetry thing, I honestly don't get involved with that. There has been a ton of internal training about legal uses of customer data and being open about the data we collect and how it is used.

What OS is your Microsoft issued corporate laptop running?

 

[heatlesssun]

...and therein lies the rub.

Therein lies the rub with just about any connected system.

 

[ccman]

No, I'm not a Troll. See my profile. Honestly I have no idea why I am posting here, I'll go back to what I was doing and leave you underlings to your happy thoughts.

There is a lot of salt around here on both sides of the Windows 10 issue. There are even third and forth sides here. You seemed to get it right out of the gate and a bit saltier than usual though. Maybe it was the "The people not switching from 7 are not too bright. Its a FREE UPGRADE. Move on people..." comment.

Compared to Windows 7 RTM especially, Windows 10 felt less polished and "done" to me. Part of that is Microsoft wants to move away from the 3 year release cycle and to more continually (or agile-y?) improve Windows. Windows 10 felt less "done" to me than Windows 8/8.1 at release too. I'm not sure if Windows 10 Upgrade version 1511, 10586 compares to the RTMs of previous Windows operating systems, as I have just not had as much time with it. It doesn't seem like the SP1 style update that I hoped it would be. Would you disagree?

It is also ironic that Windows 10 felt much better on my aging desktop than on my New XPS 13, but that isn't foreign to the Windows experience for me. Unless you had unsupported hardware, more drivers were more stable in Windows OOBE on older machines.

Windows 10 on my Dell XPS 13 had driver issues. On Windows 10, the XPS 13 couldn't figure out if/when I plugged my headphones in. Windows 8.1 Update handles audio flawlessly. The scaling of certain application elements were more blurry than on Windows 8.1 Update. Sadly, this has kept me on Windows 8.1 on the XPS 13 (alternatively booting to Windows 7/10 drives on the aging desktop depending on what I want to do)

 

[Mr45]

Therein lies the rub with just about any connected system.

Suppose Microsoft collects a bit of information about you and isn't sure whether it's sensitive or not. Would you like them to give you a call or send you an email about it? Would you prefer they contact your family, your friends, your lover or maybe your boss at work?


But don't worry they will "delete" it when they determine it's sensitive.

 

[NeoZer0]

What OS is your Microsoft issued corporate laptop running?

Windows 10 Enterprise x64 with November update

 

[NeoZer0]

There are other things that have to be disabled. For instance, if one is using Windows Update, well duh, that has to send info to Microsoft and has to be disabled if the idea is to send NO information to Microsoft.

This is getting crazy. People are freaking out over basic services that by their essence have to share data to function.

I totally agree. From what I understand the information that is collected is used for things like Cortana. For example, Cortana watches my Outlook emails and Calendar. Cortana see's that I have a flight coming up in 2 weeks and asks me if I would like her to track it for me. I say yes and then I get updates on the status on the flight if it is delayed, etc. All of which is configurable through policy, etc.

Honestly, while I understand where people are coming from I have to say that MS does not use peoples information they collect to make a buck unlike some other search companies that shall not be named.

 

[x509]

MS Guy here:

All my home machines and those belonging to family are already switched to Win10. The the real story that has to be to is that businesses really need to start moving to Windows 10. PtH attacks are the number 1 hack I am seeing these days and credential guard in Windows 10 all but eliminates the threat because there is no LSA to attack. The people not switching from 7 are not too bright.

Its a FREE UPGRADE. Move on people.....

What is a PtH hack? A Google search was all about hormones. Ditto for LSA?

I'm a security guy, so I appreciate claims of improved security. But do you have any stats to back up these statements?

For the average person, and for [H]er's, the security/privacy risk of all that telemetry seems far more important.

 

[dagas]

I went back to Windows 7. Maybe I'll give Win 10 a try next year but I didn't see much benefit. Mostly it was fine but some games didn't work well and unlike going from Win 7 to XP going back to 7 from 10 didn't make me miss anything.

 

[klingonscum]

For me, the issue is not being able to turn off automatic downloading of Windows updates in Windows 10. Reason: I live in the boonies - I have a 3Mbps DSL connection that AT&T mistakenly rolled out in this area a few years ago and have been desperately trying to cancel (but I'm not letting them off the hook) - there is no other alternative unless I wanted to go Satellite or something atrocious. Add to that the fact my "broadband" also has a 150GB/month data cap on it - and yes, you actually can hit that cap at 3Mbps/month, but you REALLY have to work hard to do it. Finally, I've got 8 PCs at home - 4 (1 for each member of my family), two HTPCs, and a couple of laptops.

And quite frankly, there is no compelling reason to switch. Currently there doesn't appear to be any software that only runs on Windows 10 and not Windows 8, and while I keep my machines up to date with antivirus and 3rd party firewall software, I'm not particularly worried about Windows 7 being more vulnerable than Windows 10 at this point.

If they'd make it to where you actually can turn off the automatic Windows 10 updates (and I have heard you can do some jiggery pokery with setting your internet connection as "metered" to try to work around it, but I just don't have enough "I care" to try it out yet), I'd get it all tomorrow. The privacy stuff is annoying, but I can deal with that.

 

[adrift02]

I recently switched to Windows 10 after staring at the free download for months. I don't really know why I switched, other than the impulse to check it out. I think that's the biggest barrier for Windows 7 users. I tried Windows 8.1 and went back after seeing how horrible it was. So why take that risk again when Windows 7 works just fine and does everything I want?

That being said, Windows 10 is enough like Windows 7 that I don't have any problems with it.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

As I understand it, Windows 10 Enterprise can not totally and completely disable the telemetry no matter what you do - having said that Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) CAN disable the telemetry absolutely but it's a different version of Windows 10 Enterprise than what probably 90-95% of Enterprise customers use (the standard Windows 10 Enterprise). I could be and might be and probably am wrong but, with all the research I've done myself and all the info that published, the LTSB edition is the only one that fully allows a lock down of all telemetry and puts it to an absolute halt - even Microsoft admits that much and in testing it's been proven to be true with everything effectively cut off in terms of back and forth telemetry info.

If you're just running Windows 10 Enterprise, well, good luck with that.

 

[ccman]

What is a PtH hack? A Google search was all about hormones. Ditto for LSA?

I'm a security guy, so I appreciate claims of improved security. But do you have any stats to back up these statements?

For the average person, and for [H]er's, the security/privacy risk of all that telemetry seems far more important.

Pass the Hash and Local Security Authority. You type in your password in clear text. Using the Local Security Authority, Windows creates a (LanManager and/or NTLM [NT Lan Manager]) hash of that password. If a hacker can get your username and hash, they are able to authenticate to the server or service (they don't have to break the hash, they can just "pass the hash").

 

[NeoZer0]

Just lookup WCE, Mimikatz, Invoke-Mimikatz <--- This one is especially nasty because since it is running in PowerShell it is all in memory and never touches the disk, thus AV can't catch it.

 

[NeoZer0]

What is a PtH hack? A Google search was all about hormones. Ditto for LSA?

I'm a security guy, so I appreciate claims of improved security. But do you have any stats to back up these statements?

For the average person, and for [H]er's, the security/privacy risk of all that telemetry seems far more important.

Trust me, the businesses that get breached don't think so. PtH attacks are easy and only require a dumb user to open an attachment or visit a rogue website that makes use of a vulnerability to kick it off. After that the attacker starts collecting the password hashes of everyone who logged into their box. Alot of times what happens is they will cause weird stuff and this baits a help desk person with elevated privileges to log in, then they collect their password hash and use to move laterally to servers and DC's to attack them. Voila, your pwned.

See this: http://download.microsoft.com/downl...Other Credential Theft Techniques_English.pdf

And This, I know Mark Simos who is in this video. He's pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sy0K3SsJ2g

 

[jedijeb]

MS Guy here:

All my home machines and those belonging to family are already switched to Win10. The the real story that has to be to is that businesses really need to start moving to Windows 10. PtH attacks are the number 1 hack I am seeing these days and credential guard in Windows 10 all but eliminates the threat because there is no LSA to attack. The people not switching from 7 are not too bright.

Its a FREE UPGRADE. Move on people.....

Fine for a home user maybe, but guess you didn't read my post about what happens when you just upgrade because it's free. If my company upgraded all our computers to W10 tomorrow, we would be shutting the doors a month from now because we would not be able to do any of the work we need to do unless we spend a million dollars upgrading equipment connected to those computers, and guess what, even the upgraded equipment is still shipping with W7 computers because they haven't written control software compatible with anything newer yet.

 

[htpc_user]

I'm one of the ones that contributed to the rise of Windows 8. I found out the streaming quality is much better on 8 than it is on 7. So now my HTPC has improved its functionality as a result.

 

[NeoZer0]

Fine for a home user maybe, but guess you didn't read my post about what happens when you just upgrade because it's free. If my company upgraded all our computers to W10 tomorrow, we would be shutting the doors a month from now because we would not be able to do any of the work we need to do unless we spend a million dollars upgrading equipment connected to those computers, and guess what, even the upgraded equipment is still shipping with W7 computers because they haven't written control software compatible with anything newer yet.

Well of course there are these types of scenarios. If you can't support it then you can't move. Alot of businesses are in the same situation. But if you CAN do it then you SHOULD do it.

 

[jedijeb]

Well of course there are these types of scenarios. If you can't support it then you can't move. Alot of businesses are in the same situation. But if you CAN do it then you SHOULD do it.

It will take forever for us lol. Honestly we just got rid of our last W3.11 about five years ago and our last W95 three years ago along with about four WNT computers. The upgrade on the one I mentioned in my first post is costing us $8K to replace an XP computer with a W7.

 

[ccman]

Well of course there are these types of scenarios. If you can't support it then you can't move. Alot of businesses are in the same situation. But if you CAN do it then you SHOULD do it.

Some people prefer not to be x.0 users. Some prefer not to be version 1.0 users. Windows 10 is definitely a x.0 product. While it is ridiculous to call Windows 10 a 1.0 product as a whole, I can point at certain parts of Windows 10 that are very much 1.0. Windows as a Service is very much 1.0. The delivery of the first major upgrade was very much 1.0. I could add to this other examples.

Some would strenuously argue against using x.0 products (NOT a knock against Microsoft, as those with this line of thinking apply it equally if not more so to Apple and Google products in Mac OS X, iOS, and Android). To that extent, even "if you CAN do it", it does not automatically follow that "then you SHOULD do it." Compared to Windows 8.1, the differences aren't as stark, you still have months yet to claim the free upgrade, and I believe the savvy user can claim the upgrade while still maintaining an operating system that has proven stable for them and is a "x.1 with Update" product.

I dislike such blanket, black and white, extreme statements.

 

[ccman]

And This, I know Mark Simos who is in this video. He's pretty awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sy0K3SsJ2g

I'll have to check out Mark Simos. I geek out about most things to do with Mark Russinovich and/or Aaron Margosis.

 

[NeoZer0]

It will take forever for us lol. Honestly we just got rid of our last W3.11 about five years ago and our last W95 three years ago along with about four WNT computers. The upgrade on the one I mentioned in my first post is costing us $8K to replace an XP computer with a W7.

OMG, kill it with fire!

 

[heatlesssun]

Some people prefer not to be x.0 users. Some prefer not to be version 1.0 users. Windows 10 is definitely a x.0 product. While it is ridiculous to call Windows 10 a 1.0 product as a whole, I can point at certain parts of Windows 10 that are very much 1.0. Windows as a Service is very much 1.0. The delivery of the first major upgrade was very much 1.0. I could add to this other examples.

Some would strenuously argue against using x.0 products (NOT a knock against Microsoft, as those with this line of thinking apply it equally if not more so to Apple and Google products in Mac OS X, iOS, and Android). To that extent, even "if you CAN do it", it does not automatically follow that "then you SHOULD do it." Compared to Windows 8.1, the differences aren't as stark, you still have months yet to claim the free upgrade, and I believe the savvy user can claim the upgrade while still maintaining an operating system that has proven stable for them and is a "x.1 with Update" product.

I dislike such blanket, black and white, extreme statements.

I agree with what you're saying. But there's another wrinkle to Windows 10. It's extremely complex, perhaps the most complex client OS ever. It runs on tons of different kinds of devices and runs more software overall than pretty much anything else. There's not a single OS that can do all that it does.

And I get the problems, and the "spyware". Indeed the "spyware" is part of the complexity. Log into a Windows 10 (8 did the same) with a Microsoft Account, don't change the sync settings, then log into another Windows 10 device with the same account while also not changing the sync settings. Change the desktop paper on one and a few minutes later that wallpaper is on the other machine. And yes, passwords on websites by the way, another setting.

Of course 10 has its flaws, I probably aware of more than most that clearly aren't using much of what's there over the privacy paranoia created in places like this. But a lot of thought (something that 8 lacked) and risk has gone into this OS. And for that I congratulate Microsoft for doing more than anyone else in the x86 space right now.

Sitting around and appeasing core users until the end of time will give us what, Aero Glass 3?

 

[Zepher]

I am sticking with 7 until I need to go to 10.
I am not fond of the look and how the control panel and settings have changed.

 

[ccman]

I agree with what you're saying. But there's another wrinkle to Windows 10. It's extremely complex, perhaps the most complex client OS ever. It runs on tons of different kinds of devices and runs more software overall than pretty much anything else. There's not a single OS that can do all that it does.

And I get the problems, and the "spyware". Indeed the "spyware" is part of the complexity. Log into a Windows 10 (8 did the same) with a Microsoft Account, don't change the sync settings, then log into another Windows 10 device with the same account while also not changing the sync settings. Change the desktop paper on one and a few minutes later that wallpaper is on the other machine. And yes, passwords on websites by the way, another setting.

Of course 10 has its flaws, I probably aware of more than most that clearly aren't using much of what's there over the privacy paranoia created in places like this. But a lot of thought (something that 8 lacked) and risk has gone into this OS. And for that I congratulate Microsoft for doing more than anyone else in the x86 space right now.

Sitting around and appeasing core users until the end of time will give us what, Aero Glass 3?

Two points here interest me. First, the sync thing is very slick. I can't point to any other operating system that provides anything close. iOS to Mac OS X doesn't do this comprehensively. iOS to iOS sort of does it in the context of the same device class. Android may be capable of this, but their ecosystem (technosystem?) is a mess. Samsung to Motorola to LG to Nexus to HTC to Kyrocera sync? I'm not sure how that would work.

And yeah, I've noticed a software developer has to both lead and follow the user (both listen and talk/show). A user can only imprecisely communicate what they want, may not know what is and isn't possible, and is biased towards what they know. I don't disagree Microsoft has to take chances. For UI, who knows, we may still be on Windows Classic v6, Windows 3.1 v8, or Windows 1.0 v10, not Aero v3 if Microsoft didn't move on. In the past though, Microsoft left old UI styles accessible. Windows Classic was dropped with Windows 8. Program Manager was dropped with Windows XP. Areo was introduced in Vista and dropped after 7? By that logic, will Modern be dropped soon?

Some here will disagree, but I think the spyware label for Windows 10 is a bridge too far at this point in all but the most broad definitions. I will wholeheartedly agree that this is a claim that needs to be backed up with a higher standard of proof. I think it's telling that Spybot calls their program Anti-Beacon (lazy argument/example as Spybot bread is buttered in Windows - also, Spybot S&D has long fallen off my go to tool for such things).

 

[SuperSubZero]

Fine for a home user maybe, but guess you didn't read my post about what happens when you just upgrade because it's free. If my company upgraded all our computers to W10 tomorrow, we would be shutting the doors a month from now

If you need to use an older Windows on vertical equipment, you should be able to.

This doesn't mean you absolutely have to keep the office secretary on Windows 7.