Windows 7 doesn't play nice with other codecs, should i be worried ?

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Someone else posted something about windows 7 not being easy to work with other codecs. Anyone care to enlighten me on this matter ?

 

[Nenu]

Enlighten us?
You havent mentioned what other codecs are.

If it doesnt have the codec, install it.

 

[Archer75]

Windows 7 has a great deal built in. I just setup my HTPC and have everything playing flawlessly. And with less software/codecs than I had to use in XP/Vista.

What formats are you trying to play?

 

[Joe Average]

Windows 7 + Media Player Classic (Home Cinema) will play nearly 99% of the video content out there on the Internet, there really isn't much else required if anything. If you intend to do all sorts of transcoding from one format to another (and by format I mean the codec, not the container), then yes, you may encounter issues.

But for strictly playback of content, Windows 7 + MPC-HC can do pretty much everything, seriously.

 

[Archer75]

Windows 7 + Media Player Classic (Home Cinema) will play nearly 99% of the video content out there on the Internet, there really isn't much else required if anything. If you intend to do all sorts of transcoding from one format to another (and by format I mean the codec, not the container), then yes, you may encounter issues.

And if you're like me and don't want to use the MPC-HC player you can manually download and register the codecs/filters from it and your video will play in WMP and Media Center flawless. It's free too!

7 has built in support for h.264, xvid, avi, I think there is also support for .mov

 

[bigdogchris]

Someone else posted something about windows 7 not being easy to work with other codecs. Anyone care to enlighten me on this matter ?

There's only one person on this board who post that shit and just ignore it. That poster is just trying to push their opinion on you so you to operate your computer their way, including telling you what player you are an idiot to use or not to use, what codecs you are or are not an idiot to install and various other ramblings that has become nothing but a repetitous pile of refuse. Quite similar to how your curb looks the same every week before the trash truck comes.

I had to install QTlite and other codec packs to view some of my movies. I noticed absolutely zero side effect. An OS either has the codec or it doesn't. Adding additional codecs is not going to harm it. The only time I've ever heard of a side effect of installing a codec is the Fallout 3 issue where the songs were using DRM or something and you had to uninstall a certain codec pack in order to get it to run correctly.

If WMP does not play the file natively, try MPC or MPC HC and if it still does not play them, start trying the codecs you know work.

 

[Joe Average]

And if you're like me and don't want to use the MPC-HC player you can manually download and register the codecs/filters from it and your video will play in WMP and Media Center flawless. It's free too!

Ok, that part is a bit confusing as MPC-HC is a player, it doesn't really come with codecs (it has one internally, for MPEG2 decoding), it simply relies on what's already on the system. It's not the same as something like FFDShow which is a codec capable of handling a multitude of formats and also filters but... not sure where that mention of MPC-HC fits into that statement.

The only thing I've had issues playing with WMP itself is MKV which is a container. WMP just doesn't like to read that although I'm sure there's a hack out there to allow it - I still say (and many many others do as well) that MPC-HC is the fastest, most efficient player you're most likely going to find for simplistic video file playback (personal opinion, don't crack my kneecaps for it).

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Windows 7 has a great deal built in. I just setup my HTPC and have everything playing flawlessly. And with less software/codecs than I had to use in XP/Vista.

What formats are you trying to play?

I dont' have windows 7 yet but i am researching it up, but this was what someone else had mentioned about fiddling with the registry to get other codecs to work rather then let the windows use their own.

Codecs i use will be

1. coreavc

2. CCCP codec pack


Just wondering if anybody knows if there is any trouble for this


ps: yes i am using Media Player Classic (Home Cinema) for my video viewing.



Anyway i am guessing from the comments there isn't any issue then. Alright got it thx

 

[Archer75]

Ok, that part is a bit confusing as MPC-HC is a player, it doesn't really come with codecs (it has one internally, for MPEG2 decoding), it simply relies on what's already on the system. It's not the same as something like FFDShow which is a codec capable of handling a multitude of formats and also filters but... not sure where that mention of MPC-HC fits into that statement.

The only thing I've had issues playing with WMP itself is MKV which is a container. WMP just doesn't like to read that although I'm sure there's a hack out there to allow it - I still say (and many many others do as well) that MPC-HC is the fastest, most efficient player you're most likely going to find for simplistic video file playback (personal opinion, don't crack my kneecaps for it).

MPC-HC has some built in filters which allows it to play a wide variety of video. These can be downloaded individually. There is a sourceforge page with all of them http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpc-hc/files/

To play mkv you need haali media splitter. There is 32 and 64bit version. You can use the MPC AVC filter and manually register it. This is not required as windows 7 has it built in. But this will give you hardware acceleration and better image quality. Then MKV's will play in WMP.

The reason I don't use other players is because I have an HTPC and I want everything to play in media center and use only a remote to flip through it all. If I used another player i'd have to navigate to my files and launch them the old fashion way with a mouse and then full screen it. No, I just want a simple interface that can be accessed via the remote. It works great!

I dont' have windows 7 yet but i am researching it up, but this was what someone else had mentioned about fiddling with the registry to get other codecs to work rather then let the windows use their own.

Codecs i use will be

1. coreavc

2. CCCP codec pack


Just wondering if anybody knows if there is any trouble for this


ps: yes i am using Media Player Classic (Home Cinema) for my video viewing.



Anyway i am guessing from the comments there isn't any issue then. Alright got it thx

You don't need coreavc. h.264/avc is built in. Or you can use the MPC-HC AVC filter and get hardware acceleration. It's free. CoreAVC is not. Coreavc is a great software decoder(hardware for nvidia cards). I haven't compared cpu utilization between the two.

You also don't need a codec pack. I know there are different opinions on this but I tend to avoid codec packs as they can introduce conflicts. And I don't like to install codecs that aren't needed. So I install what I need one by one and test to make sure I have only what I need and nothing more. Too many codecs can cause issues as you don't know which one is actually being used. In Vista and XP you use radlight filter manager to check and change the merit value of different codecs to ensure the system is using what you want. I also find that it could be using one I don't want and can have an adverse affect on picture quality. So in my experience of using codecs on my HTPC I really try to limit what I have on there so there are no conflicts and it uses exactly what I want it to. I have had problems here.

I do use a codec pack on my laptop as I just want some video to play and don't want to dick with it and it just doesn't matter.

In the case of windows 7 they aren't needed as they have so many codecs built in. Try the files that you want to play. I bet most will play.

This tool will let you select your preferred filter in windows 7 http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/06/preferred-directshow-filters-tool-for-windows-7.html
This will organize your movie collection in media center http://www.mediabrowser.tv/

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Thanks

 

[Joe Average]

Now see, that I didn't know as I've never explored the project page for MPC-HC at SourceForge, neat information overall.

I think people, when coming from the past with XP because it was out sooooooooo long, and even those that did make the jump to Vista still don't understand just what Windows 7 now brings to the table with the built-in ability to decode almost anything out there except the aforementioned Real Media content (which Real Alternative can assist with, if you must).

I just installed Windows 7 x64 (a certain final build, I have to add) earlier today, then one of the things I threw on it was Media Player Classic - Home Cinema x64. I put that in the Program Files directory (directory of the same name, Media Player Classic - Home Cinema x64), and then I run the single .exe file one time with Admin privileges, I set it as the default player for all video formats, I change the logo to the one I like the best, then I set it for EVR Custom renderer, and save the options, then close the app.

That's it - that's all I do.

And I just got done watching a few QuickTime trailers in high definition, downloaded with Firefox, from Apple.com (using the Apple Trailer Download script for Greasemonkey). There really is nothing else required...



I mean, it's not perfect because it's not some fancy HTPC front-end like many people want and use nowadays, but, to be able to play literally 99% of the video files floating around out there with one single .exe and the OS itself out-of-the-box, that's pretty amazing. No other OS can make that claim, not any Linux distro I've ever encountered, and sure as hell not OSX.

Just for the record, because I know some people would be interested, here's the pin output from EVR for MPC-HC for that clip in the pic above:

Filter : Enhanced Video Renderer - CLSID : {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {008BAC12-FBAF-497B-9670-BC6F6FBAE2C4}
Filter: MPC Video Decoder
Pin: Output

- Connection media type:

Video: YUY2 1280x532 23.97fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE: 
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_YUY2 {32595559-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 112

From the MPC Decoder:

Filter : MPC Video Decoder - CLSID : {008BAC12-FBAF-497B-9670-BC6F6FBAE2C4}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {3CCC052E-BDEE-408A-BEA7-90914EF2964B}
Filter: C:\Users\br0adband\Downloads\newmoon-tsr1_h720p.mov
Pin: Apple Video Media Handler

- Connection media type:

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x532 23.97fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE: 
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {31637661-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO {E06D80E3-DB46-11CF-B4D1-00805F6CBBEA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 161

And from the AAC Decoder:

Filter : AAC Decoder - CLSID : {3D446B6F-71DE-4437-BE15-8CE47174340F}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {3CCC052E-BDEE-408A-BEA7-90914EF2964B}
Filter: C:\Users\br0adband\Downloads\newmoon-tsr1_h720p.mov
Pin: Apple Sound Media Handler

- Connection media type:

Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo 128Kbps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE: 
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {000000FF-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 20

It's not the only solution but, given that you can play so much, the obvious question becomes: why pollute a brand new installation (or even an older stable one) with a bunch of codecs for playback when this OS can do it almost natively - and with a little help from MPC or said filters mentioned above by Archer75, natively?

/me just doesn't get why people over-complicate things sometimes...

 

[Snowknight26]

Basic rundown in a nutshell applicable to WMP and WMC (and other programs that use MF to a certain degree):

If the content you're trying to play can be played by the Media Foundation filters that come with Windows, then those native filters will be used.
If there is no applicable MF filter for said content, the player will fall back to DirectShow filter, of which the Microsoft ones are also the default*. From here, if the Microsoft ones can't decode/parse the content, the highest merit DirectShow filter is used, etc, etc.

Do note though, that most 3rd party apps (KMPlayer, MPC(-HC), Zoom Player, [VLC doesn't apply]) have their own custom DirectShow graph builders (they don't even use MF so its absolutely not applicable), so you can manually select what filter to use and as such, the above plays no relevance in your media playing experience.

*Even if you have a custom DirectShow filter that has a higher merit than the Microsoft DirectShow filters, the Microsoft ones will be used in players such as WMP and WMC unless you explicitly change the prefered DirectShow filter for a certain content type in the registry.

More reading:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145906
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146910


Edit: Joe, the type of content that the decoders you wrote about output depends on what they're connected to. So when MPC Video Decoder is connected to a different renderer, it might not output YUV2 at all. Just a heads up.

 

[criccio]

FWIW, I have been able to play absolutely every media type I can find in 7MC and the only 3rd party filter/codec I installed was Haalis (for proper Matroska splitting) and CoreAVC for CUDA acceleration.

Thats it.

CoreAVC takes care of the H264 and the built in Media Foundation filters take care of everything else.

Most useful tool for 7MC users: http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/06/preferred-directshow-filters-tool-for-windows-7.html

 

[Archer75]

*Even if you have a custom DirectShow filter that has a higher merit than the Microsoft DirectShow filters, the Microsoft ones will be used in players such as WMP and WMC unless you explicitly change the prefered DirectShow filter for a certain content type in the registry.

There are apps you can use to do this. Radlight filter manager is one. The one I linked above is the other.
No need to tweak the registry.

You can also verify what MP or MC are using by using graphedit.

 

[nitrobass24]

FWIW, I have been able to play absolutely every media type I can find in 7MC and the only 3rd party filter/codec I installed was Haalis (for proper Matroska splitting) and CoreAVC for CUDA acceleration.

Thats it.

CoreAVC takes care of the H264 and the built in Media Foundation filters take care of everything else.

Most useful tool for 7MC users: http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/06/preferred-directshow-filters-tool-for-windows-7.html

^^^This except I use the MPCVideoDec.ax filter for Hardware Acceleration instead of CoreAVC cause its free.
And I use the Gabest Matroska Spliiter because I run x64.
Those are the only two things I have done to Win7 and it takes care of the rest.

 

[devil22]

Isn't there a x64 haali splitter now? I'm pretty sure it's included with shark007's vista codecs, although I can't find it seperate anywhere..?

 

[nitrobass24]

Isn't there a x64 haali splitter now? I'm pretty sure it's included with shark007's vista codecs, although I can't find it seperate anywhere..?

Someone said there was, but I have never seen it separate either.
Also what I like about Gabest is that I dont have to install anything. Haali has a bunch of stuff it copies to your box, where Gabest is a single filter that you just register like a codec.
Much cleaner IMO

 

[-=Antimatter=-]

Just read this thread:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1276654

In short, all you need is Win7 for most things. If you don't want to use the provided codecs, I suggest using MPC-HC and registering some of the codecs from their sourceforge site. Then you can use one of the programs linked in that thread to choose your preferred codecs for playback and get your hardware acceleration.

 

[Snowknight26]

There are apps you can use to do this. Radlight filter manager is one. The one I linked above is the other.
No need to tweak the registry.

Two things.

You do realize that that program modifies the registry by changing merits? And second, it doesn't matter what merit you have it at, as long as the native Microsoft filter are set as the prefered ones @ HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\Preferred, they will always be used, hence the need for registry modification. Check the links I included for more info.

Isn't there a x64 haali splitter now? I'm pretty sure it's included with shark007's vista codecs, although I can't find it seperate anywhere..?

http://haali.net/mkv/mkx.y.9.exe

 

[devil22]

...

http://haali.net/mkv/mkx.y.9.exe

Thanks. I guess it's still in beta, because it's not listed anywhere on the haali.net website.

 

[Archer75]

Two things.

You do realize that that program modifies the registry by changing merits? And second, it doesn't matter what merit you have it at, as long as the native Microsoft filter are set as the prefered ones @ HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\Preferred, they will always be used, hence the need for registry modification. Check the links I included for more info.

Yes, I do realize they modify the registry. But the point is you don't have to go digging through the registry yourself. These apps will do it quickly and easily.

Those apps will indeed work. They will adjust merit and mark them as prefered. No need to ever manually edit the registry. Been doing it this way for years. And recently in windows 7. The hak7mc link above is all you need for 7. Manually register the mpcavc filter, mark it as preferred in that app and verified in graphedit. There is also a noticable image quality difference once switching to this over the default microsoft one.

There are also win 7 codec packs that work just fine in 7. So that one link with people whining about their filters not working isn't valid. They will work. It's also an old thread now. So there must have been changes since then. Or maybe the app I use to change merit/prefered works better than the other you linked. I can't say as I haven't used that one. But my method does indeed work. And others here have also used them to register their avc filters and change prefered.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

So.... let me sum it up.

For the casual users, the default codecs in Windows 7 will cover much more stuff compared to the previous OS which was lack luster on this ..... this greatly simplified the user having to be a IT savy expert who goes down hunting for codecs just to get some video or music to work ....

The IT savy person on the otherhand may still want to get maybe stuff like HT-MPC with special codecs either manually or using codec packs like CCCP to get better performance results that only the IT enthuasiast would appreciate.

Am i accurate so far ?

 

[drdeutsch]

If you have a capable video card, you don't even need CoreAVC.
Previously, I would use MPC-HC, install CoreAVC (with Haali's) and use the shark Win7 codecs.

I recently upgraded to a Radeon 4890, though, which does hardware decoding of H.264, so CoreAVC is no longer needed. I probably won't be using Shark Codecs any longer, either. Just MPC-HC w/ Haali's and I'll be good to go.

 

[Concentric]

I just had to install DivX in order to get sound when playing a DVD in Win7 WMP, but it was just a case of d/l and run installer. Just a shame it doesn't do it out of the box.

 

[number69]

Good thread, I learned a few things reading it.

 

[heatlesssun]

I just had to install DivX in order to get sound when playing a DVD in Win7 WMP, but it was just a case of d/l and run installer. Just a shame it doesn't do it out of the box.

I've not seen this problem on all of ths 7 installs I have done. There was an issue I had with Spb Mobile DVD loosing sound on converted DVD's for my Zune but WMP has played DVD's perfectly out of the box.

 

[firas]

Good thread, I learned a few things reading it.

me too

 

[criccio]

To conclude, you don't have to install anything to play stuff in 7.

You can install certain things to augment 7's default procedures.

Like instead of using the default H264 decoder, I use CoreAVC to take advantage of CUDA. And the built in Matroska splitter works but sucks so I install Haalis.

Use this incredibly simple GUI tool to set ********** (in my case, CoreAVC) ahead of the default MS decoder and your all set.

 

[w1retap]

I need to update the thread in the HTPC forum regarding HD playback. I am going to be doing a Windows 7 guide. It's 10x simpler than setting up XP/Vista. From start to finish on a fresh Win7 install, it takes just a matter of minutes to setup everything for proper playback in a directshow environment such as Windows Media Center.

Keep an eye out in the upcoming weeks for me to update the HD Playback Guide thread in the HTPC subforum.

 

[FromTheLou]

I need to update the thread in the HTPC forum regarding HD playback. I am going to be doing a Windows 7 guide. It's 10x simpler than setting up XP/Vista. From start to finish on a fresh Win7 install, it takes just a matter of minutes to setup everything for proper playback in a directshow environment such as Windows Media Center.

Keep an eye out in the upcoming weeks for me to update the HD Playback Guide thread in the HTPC subforum.

*subscribes furiously*

 

[Putz]

Video recorded with media centre and a tv tuner on 7 cant be played back on Vista/other 7 machines either from what i had found on the beta anyways

 

[w1retap]

Yes, it can. I have done it on my PCs at home. I think you're talking about CableCard recorded content.

 

[heatlesssun]

Video recorded with media centre and a tv tuner on 7 cant be played back on Vista/other 7 machines either from what i had found on the beta anyways

Yes, it can. I have done it on my PCs at home. I think you're talking about CableCard recorded content.

There is the copy protection flag that can be set on ANY show a broadcaster wants to prevent copying and playback from other machines. I don't have CableCard but this protection may be set as a default or something for CableCard turner based recorded shows.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

*subscribes furiously*

Same here



Oh a question i forgot to ask. With windows 7, will it allow color calibration to work inside the video players ? Does that make any sense :d

 

[criccio]

Same here

No need. All the info you need is already in this thread.

All you need to know is don't install anything except for maybe Haalis Media Splitter.

 

[w1retap]

Same here



Oh a question i forgot to ask. With windows 7, will it allow color calibration to work inside the video players ? Does that make any sense :d

You can just use Nvidia or ATI's video color calibration thing in their respective control panels. But in reality, if your TV is calibrated properly, you shouldn't be messing around with your color settings within your operating system.

 

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I'm using a Hp LP2475W 24'' Widescreen H-IPS lcd monitor calibrated with Eye One 2 Display calibrator :X