Windows 12

Comixbooks

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Microsoft is reportedly returning to its old scheme of one major Windows release every three years and new features in the interim, which could mean Windows 12 is on the horizon for 2024.

Redmond now plans to “ship 'major' versions of the Windows client every three years, with the next release currently scheduled for 2024, three years after Windows 11 shipped in 2021,” according to Windows Central's Zac Bowden(Opens in a new window), who has an excellent track record when it comes to these things.

In addition to the three-year cycle, Bowden says the OS development team is instituting “Moments” along the product cycle where they’ll drop new features into released versions of Windows every few months, “up to four times a year.” This suggests that the “Sun Valley 3” update, originally expected for the fall of 2023, is unlikely to appear, though “it's unclear if Microsoft intends to increment the Windows 11 version number to ‘23H2,'" Bowden says


https://www.pcmag.com/news/windows-...portedly-changes-os-release-schedule?amp=true

https://www.windowscentral.com/soft...se-every-three-years-feature-drops-in-between

https://www.gizbot.com/amphtml/computer/news/windows-12-release-date-news-features-leaks-081730.html


Just got a blip of it from Kim Komandos tech show that its announced. 2024
 
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GotNoRice

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"gizbot" is calling it Windows 12 for clickbait reasons. Look at the source article and you won't see any mention of "Windows 12"; Microsoft certainly did not "announce" it. In fact, everything that the source article actually has to say about the next version of windows boils down to this quote:

Regarding the 2024 release of Windows, not much is known about it at this time. It’s currently in early planning and engineering stages, with people inside the company dubbing it “Next Valley” in conversations, though I’m not sure if that’s a final codename for the project.

Not much substance there...

More significant is what was said about the general update schedule:

Starting with Windows 11 version 22H2 (Sun Valley 2), Microsoft is kicking off a new “Moments” engineering effort which is designed to allow the company to rollout new features and experiences at key points throughout the year, outside of major OS releases. I hear the company intends to ship new features to the in-market version of Windows every few months, up to four times a year, starting in 2023.

Microsoft has already tested this system with the rollout of the Taskbar weather button on Windows 11 earlier this year. That same approach will be used for these Moments, where the company will group together a handful of new features that have been in testing with Insiders and roll them out to everyone on top the latest shipping release of Windows.

Many of the features that were planned for the now-scrapped Sun Valley 3 client release will ship as part of one of these Moments on top of Sun Valley 2, instead of in a dedicated new release of the Windows client in the fall of 2023.

In the past, most product teams would have to wait for the annual fall release of Windows to ship new features, but now those teams can ship their features sooner thanks to this new Moments engineering effort. Keep in mind that the term “Moments” is what Microsoft is calling these planned feature drops internally. I’m unsure if that branding will be used publicly, and it's unclear if Microsoft intends to increment the Windows 11 version number to "23H2" along with them.

It sounds like there will be more frequent feature updates to Windows 11 (and possibly Windows 10) rather than the previous standard semi-monolithic updates 1-2 times per year.
 

kirbyrj

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Perhaps Microsoft realized that a rolling release cycle of Windows 10 isn't good for the bottom line.

Does it really make a difference? They offer free upgrades to retail customers and OEMs/business customers are going to buy regardless of what version is offered as they complete their upgrade cycles.
 

Valnar

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Does it really make a difference? They offer free upgrades to retail customers and OEMs/business customers are going to buy regardless of what version is offered as they complete their upgrade cycles.
The free upgrades stop. They did with Windows 10.
 

Camberwell

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I am by no means a power user. I went XP >7>10 and everything just worked. But can they at least first fix the Win 11 bug where you need to click twice on the power button to shut down before they release anything else (amongst other things)? And at least give the option in the Start menu to move the power button back to the left hand side? Everything is just more awkward, or requires more clicks/movement than in Win 10. How is this an upgrade?
And yes, I know about 3rd party software, but that shouldn't be needed in the first place. /r.
 

Flogger23m

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I'm still waiting for a Windows 11 update that allows for:

- Never combining task bar. I've been using Win 11 a bit but still use Win 10 on my main PC. I'm sorry, but lacking a "Never Combine" option is just slower. And often times confusing.

- Right click allowing the option to default to the traditional full context menu. The registry edits to revert this never worked for me. Just give us an option in Settings / System. Context menu getting too crowded? Give us the option to disable which programs show up and which ones don't. Like they have settings for privacy and certain programs where you can quickly and cleanly disable them.

If it wasn't for those issues I might have moved to Win 11 on my main PC.
 

ir0nw0lf

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Let me guess: you can't run it on anything >1 generation of CPU old... :p
 

Unabomber

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Eh, I'd be happy with a version of Windows 11 that easily allows you to select small taskbar buttons.

Yes, I know of the registry hacks, but I don't like touching the registry unless it's a critical emergency.

I'm not really concerned about whether or not Windows 12 will be a "free" upgrade for current users, since I do clean installs with my site license of Windows Enterprise for my PC's (since I do some work from home), and that's provided to me via the university. We're still using Windows 10 Enterprise at work, and I'm fine with it as it is. The only Windows 11 PC's are this home PC, and my laptop (IBM Thinkpad E14 gen 2 with Ryzen CPU).
 
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Considering all of the sound driver and sound issues in general in Windows 10/11, I can't wait... Realtek audio drivers were so much better back in the day when the entire package was 250MB+ with Realtek Audio Control console bundled with the drivers packed full of features such as "Loudness Equalization" and EQ features. Windows Store? Hahahaha, what a joke. I shouldn't have to use that pile of **** to install additional apps that should come packed with the drivers. Seriously, install the drivers in Windows 7, and look at how much more you get over Win10/11. I don't know what Microsoft is smoking, but Windows 10/11 is horrible compared to Windows 7. Sound drivers and limited functionality in 10/11 remind me of sound configuration in Linux. Sound in Linux is very limited and basic when compared to what we "had" in Windows previously. At this point, I don't even want to build a new PC because all of the new ones I've built require Windows 10+ (for gaming anyways... can't game very well in Linux with modern games), and you cannot get the sound to be as perfect as it was in Win7. Guess I'll stick with my x370 chipset and run both 7/10 so I can experience the best and worst of each... Sad state of the world as things continue to get worse. New products suck, quality is poor, testing is non-existent, things are extremely buggy and experimental... yep, this is much better than back in the day...
 

staknhalo

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64kb of memory will be the last edition of Windows you'll ever need! Amazing!

🎵 same as it ever was🎵
 

staknhalo

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That's another misquote. Gates said he didn't think anyone should need more than 640kb of memory at the time, not that no one ever would.

Misquote don't change the sentiment of the message though

There's always something next, plenty of people, misquoted or not, or just some engineers saying something not an official company statement (in regards to whatever about Windows 10) say this is it this time - but still doesn't change there's always gonna be something next

edit: because monaaaaaaayyyyyy baby

1658102266405.gif


and also advancements in tech
 
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GotNoRice

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Considering all of the sound driver and sound issues in general in Windows 10/11, I can't wait... Realtek audio drivers were so much better back in the day when the entire package was 250MB+ with Realtek Audio Control console bundled with the drivers packed full of features such as "Loudness Equalization" and EQ features. Windows Store? Hahahaha, what a joke. I shouldn't have to use that pile of **** to install additional apps that should come packed with the drivers. Seriously, install the drivers in Windows 7, and look at how much more you get over Win10/11. I don't know what Microsoft is smoking, but Windows 10/11 is horrible compared to Windows 7. Sound drivers and limited functionality in 10/11 remind me of sound configuration in Linux. Sound in Linux is very limited and basic when compared to what we "had" in Windows previously. At this point, I don't even want to build a new PC because all of the new ones I've built require Windows 10+ (for gaming anyways... can't game very well in Linux with modern games), and you cannot get the sound to be as perfect as it was in Win7. Guess I'll stick with my x370 chipset and run both 7/10 so I can experience the best and worst of each... Sad state of the world as things continue to get worse. New products suck, quality is poor, testing is non-existent, things are extremely buggy and experimental... yep, this is much better than back in the day...

Do you have anything to back up this incoherent rambling? Sounds more like you had one bad experience with one driver for one piece of hardware and it was easier for you to blame Windows instead of your own incompetence.

I refurbish computers for people on a regular basis. When I install a new OS on there I give them a choice of Windows 10 or Windows 11. These computers are usually older, so I also explain that a bypass will be needed if they choose 11. Most still choose 11. Consequently, I now have experience installing Windows 11 on a very wide range of hardware including some truly old hardware (15+ year-old Core2-era hardware, etc). I also have Windows 11 installed on almost every computer I personally own now, which includes new, old, and very old computers. I've been able to get sound working on every single computer so far, as long as it at least has Vista 64 drivers (Any hardware from the XP era that never at least got Vista drivers is out of luck, and that is where the true compatibility threshold for Windows 11 is).

I also have a personal preference for Creative Sound cards, primary their older X-Fi line, with most of those cards between 12-16 years old at this point. The only time in recent memory that there was any driver issue whatsoever was when the Windows 10 1903 update came out (Spring 2019), when MS changed some things that broke the Creative driver. A new driver was released within a week, despite the age of the cards, and everything was great again. Never had a single issue with Windows 11.

Give me an example of where a sound device will have "limited functionality in 10/11", because I'm not encountering this.

If a specific driver requires you to go into the app store to download a control panel or other utility for that driver, that is something the manufacturer chose to do, not something that is required of all Windows 10/11 drivers. I can't think of a single sound device in any computer I have that requires that. If you are convinced that the Windows 7 driver was better then you can try installing the Windows 7 driver in Windows 11. Again, in most cases Windows 11 can use drivers (64-bit) meant for Windows 10, Windows 8/8.1, Windows 7, and even Windows Vista.
 
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ProfessorUtopia

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Realtek audio drivers were so much better back in the day when the entire package was 250MB+ with Realtek Audio Control console bundled with the drivers packed full of features such as "Loudness Equalization" and EQ features. Windows Store? Hahahaha, what a joke.
Give me an example of where a sound device will have "limited functionality in 10/11", because I'm not encountering this.

I think this sums up the disconnect, here: The driver/console in current versions of Windows doesn't compare to what was distributed for Windows 7, and even XP. On my recent build, using a B550 board running Windows 11 22H2, I discovered I actually get more functionality using the generic driver Windows automatically installs, versus installing the Realtek driver/software package from either ASUS or Realtek. The "Enhancements" tab (which includes the ability to enable Loudness Equalization) isn't even available with the driver downloaded from ASUS or Realtek. And getting to that requires going to the legacy sound control panel, which is now less convenient to access in Windows 11 versus 10.

I used to run Creative sound cards in my builds, but ditched them after Windows 7 because the software and drivers had fewer features in newer versions of Windows. I didn't have any luck getting the old software to work with the new drivers, but I only ever gave it one (very solid) go before writing it off, when I first moved to Windows 8.1.
 

DukenukemX

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Gonna put this here because Microsoft Windows. I didn't know about Microsoft Pluton until someone tells me you can't install Linux on certain laptops. This is disturbing stuff.


"As found out by programmer Matthew Garrett, who has won multiple FSF Free Software awards from the Free Software Foundation (FSF) for his work on Secure Boot, UEFI, and Linux , the security processor Microsoft Pluton blocks the installation of Linux on the Lenovo ThinkPad Z13 and Z16."

"For the first time Windows only at Lenovo
Initial investigations by the Linux expert revealed that Microsoft Pluton due to Secure Boot is factory set up so that the security processor only accepts the Windows boot loader and driver and refuses to run anything other than Windows.
The Linux kernel and distributions based on it use the so-called Microsoft 3rd Party UEFI Certificates Authority (CA) for Secure Boot; these are therefore rejected by Pluton. Matthew Garrett writes about this in his blog:"


https://allinfo.space/2022/07/09/mi...p-doesnt-let-linux-on-the-lenovo-z13-and-z16/

 

DukenukemX

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You can't boot from linux before changing a very simple setting in the UEFI setting, like the post talked about say:
Restricting boot to Windows by default

Not restricting boot to windows
Assuming you can disable it. Not sure but I'm assuming that some laptops can't disable this. The main problem is that there's no security advantage from this.
 

GotNoRice

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Assuming you can disable it. Not sure but I'm assuming that some laptops can't disable this. The main problem is that there's no security advantage from this.

This would likely prevent someone from booting from a USB flash drive, and I can see how that would be beneficial in an office environment.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Assuming you can disable it. Not sure but I'm assuming that some laptops can't disable this. The main problem is that there's no security advantage from this.

There are laptops that exist where you can't disable Secure Boot for a myriad of reasons, including bugs, and will only boot Windows.

HP comes to mind, I don't remember the specific models, but I've had several HP laptops in my hands where Windows was the only OS allowed to be installed, because of a bug in the UEFI firmware. HP has a check in the firmware where you have to input a sequence of numbers, followed by a reboot, to disable Secure Boot to install Linux or another OS. This number sequence check doesn't work because of a bug, it won't accept the correct input, and sometimes it won't accept input at all and just freeze.

This was back in the Windows 8 era, but I have no reason to doubt that it kept being a problem.
 

LukeTbk

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Assuming you can disable it. Not sure but I'm assuming that some laptops can't disable this. The main problem is that there's no security advantage from this.
People did disable it to make sure for those laptops in that example and there was never a claim that you could not install and boot Linux on those Laptop, but yes the very point that it show how easily or in case of a bad laptop bug or a more closed one that could happen.

But I really do not see how it would be possible for something like this to have absolutely no security advantage from this, which assume a level of security to windows that I am not sure it is legit.

That is all about someone having direct access to the machine are you saying that it is absolutely impossible to do more things faster on a business machine and their network it is connected too if you are able to boot your made for this Linux image from an USB disk ? Possible I really do not know enough about security, but it is a big claim, specially one to be sure about.
 

ElementDave

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Gonna put this here because Microsoft Windows. I didn't know about Microsoft Pluton until someone tells me you can't install Linux on certain laptops. This is disturbing stuff.

"As found out by programmer Matthew Garrett, who has won multiple FSF Free Software awards from the Free Software Foundation (FSF) for his work on Secure Boot, UEFI, and Linux , the security processor Microsoft Pluton blocks the installation of Linux on the Lenovo ThinkPad Z13 and Z16."
Pluton is entirely incidental. The issue relates to the system firmware distrusting Microsoft's third-party UEFI CA by default (a "Secured-core PC" requirement), which means that such device won't boot a non-Windows OS without first changing the firmware configuration (assuming that's an option and remains so). Mathew Garrett's blog entry is here: Responsible stewardship of the UEFI secure boot ecosystem

An earlier related entry: Lenovo shipping new laptops that only boot Windows by default
According to one of the comments: "MSI are doing the same thing with their latest firmware updates. And there are people on their support site who aren't able to get into the BIOS/UEFI because their video cards won't support it." Someone from Lenovo left a comment as well.

Toggling an option in the "BIOS" doesn't sound like an onerous requirement, but I'm withholding judgement for now. Considering Garrett's history with UEFI Secure Boot on Linux, I tend to take his concerns seriously.
 
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Eivind68

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I'm still waiting for a Windows 11 update that allows for:

- Never combining task bar. I've been using Win 11 a bit but still use Win 10 on my main PC. I'm sorry, but lacking a "Never Combine" option is just slower. And often times confusing.

- Right click allowing the option to default to the traditional full context menu. The registry edits to revert this never worked for me. Just give us an option in Settings / System. Context menu getting too crowded? Give us the option to disable which programs show up and which ones don't. Like they have settings for privacy and certain programs where you can quickly and cleanly disable them.

If it wasn't for those issues I might have moved to Win 11 on my main PC.
The removal of the "Never combine taskbar" is extremely annoying. 🤬🤬 And in addition to that, notifications about new emails or messages have gone from making the icon blink yellow as an alert, to just a tiny number or icon that you really have to look for. 🤬🤬
I'm sure it is the newest trend in GUI design but it is very annoying to work with, and why cant we decide ourselves how we want to have things anymore??
 
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