Windows 11 May Not Run on Early Ryzen, Threadripper, Skylake-X, or Any Pre-2016 Intel PC

SmokeRngs

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I actually don't mind that 11 is pushing hardware requirements up. It's rare Microsoft really pushes the boundaries, so it's refreshing for once. However, I do think not 'officially' support Skylake, and Zen 1 is a bit too aggressive.
Pushing what boundaries? Once the secure boot and tpm requirements are tossed Win11 runs as well as 10 does on the same hardware. There are no boundaries being pushed and I sure as hell don't want to see an OS pushing hardware boundaries since it means the OS is going to be getting in the way and using resources it doesn't need taking them away from the software I'm running on top of the OS.

The point of an OS is to be a base for other software to run on. That's it.
 

Endgame

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Performance per watt? Single thread performance? Multi core performance?

here, compare a 1700x vs a 3700x:
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2281?vs=2520

And then a 3700x vs a 5800x.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2665?vs=2675

1700x to 5800x is, what, > 50% perf improvement?

Mmmm hmmm. The majority of users would not be able to tell the difference between Zen 1 and Zen 3. Do you know why that is? I'll give you a hint. It's the same reason most people can't tell the difference between the speed of light and the speed of electricity.
 

ManofGod

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Mmmm hmmm. The majority of users would not be able to tell the difference between Zen 1 and Zen 3. Do you know why that is? I'll give you a hint. It's the same reason most people can't tell the difference between the speed of light and the speed of electricity.

I do not agree but, that is ok, the difference between Zen1 and Zen3 is significant, very much so in gaming, at any resolution. Even Zen2 is noticeably better than Zen1 and Zen+.

Edit: In fact, this is the first time in a couple in at least 15 years that it is worth upgrading from one year to the next.
 
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I do not agree but, that is ok, the difference between Zen1 and Zen3 is significant, very much so in gaming, at any resolution. Even Zen2 is noticeably better than Zen1 and Zen+.

Edit: In fact, this is the first time in a couple in at least 15 years that it is worth upgrading from one year to the next.

Of course! I myself am about to pull the trigger on a 5900X, an ASUS Strix B550-E, and some G.Skill 3600 CL16 RAM. I'm very excited about it, and I expect to notice a big difference in my games compared to my Intel 5960X (basically equivalent to Zen 1). But just because I found a use case for more CPU power, does not mean that other people who have no use for it should be prevented from upgrading to the newest OS. A lot of people are just browsing the web and going on Facebook and Youtube. Maybe they'd like to pay for a Windows 11 upgrade so that they'd be able to run an Android app that they use for work. Why stop them?
 

Marees

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Maybe they'd like to pay for a Windows 11 upgrade so that they'd be able to run an Android app that they use for work. Why stop them?

Android apps can possibly cripple the performance because they run inside a virtual OS (that has to be secure with many restrictions)

Microsoft probably still testing what is possible/feasible.
Average performance hit on unsupported hardware is 30-40% & at the worst case it can bring the CPU to a standstill
 
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Android apps can possibly cripple the performance because they run inside a virtual OS (that has to be secure with many restrictions)

Microsoft probably still testing what is possible/feasible.
Average performance hit on unsupported hardware is 30-40% & at the worst case it can bring the CPU to a standstill

Slower than the cell phone they're running it on? I still don't understand why Microsoft doesn't want their money. What if they just want the updated user interface?
 

Marees

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Slower than the cell phone they're running it on?

Its probably the difference between running natively & inside a virtual OS and ensuring the security is not compromised, I am guessing

Frank Lesniak (@FrankLesniak) Tweeted:

https://twitter.com/FrankLesniak/status/1409737203975135233?s=20

Old article from 3 years ago (worst case performance on unsupported CPUs can be a 200x hit)

Brent Arkley (@Borecxx) Tweeted:

https://twitter.com/Borecxx/status/1026099855914135554?s=20

What I did find was a line in the Windows Internals 7th Edition book by Mark Russinovich and Alex Ionescu. It states:


So here is our first evidence of a potential performance point. If MBEC is not available then it uses Software Emulation in the form of RUM.

The next insight came from Rafal Wojtczuks VBS Security Analysis from 2016


The full document is here:
https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-16...ndows-10-Virtualization-Based-Security-wp.pdf
or youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_646Gmr_uo0
 
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So the justification now is that there is a some possible, theoretical edge-case in which a single Windows 11 feature runs beautifully on coffee lake, but is utter shit on kaby lake? Except that the problem is really in skylake, not kaby lake, but let's block kaby lake anyway? I dunno, sounds flimsy.
 

Marees

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So the justification now is that there is a some possible, theoretical edge-case in which a single Windows 11 feature runs beautifully on coffee lake, but is utter shit on kaby lake? Except that the problem is really in skylake, not kaby lake, but let's block kaby lake anyway? I dunno, sounds flimsy.

You summarized it pretty well.

Hope Microsoft is able to qualify kaby lake CPUs too
 

pendragon1

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Microsoft probably still testing what is possible/feasible.
ye, they have said as much. they are going to access the requirements and make adjustments. i wouldnt be surprised if they relax the tpm stuff on custom systems and force oems to be w11 "certified".
 

Endgame

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Maybe they can qualify Nehalem if they throw something in the EULA to the effect of "don't get mad at us because you can't run android apps, or you got hacked by Fancy Bear because you didn't have TPM and your password was "password"
In all honesty, Nehalem systems, even over clocked, feel pretty slow in win 10 compared to something like a 5800x, even if it’s just for a “kids box”. If you take that hardware and move it to Linux, you might as well buy a raspberry pi and drop your power footprint to sub 5w.
 

lopoetve

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Mmmm hmmm. The majority of users would not be able to tell the difference between Zen 1 and Zen 3. Do you know why that is? I'll give you a hint. It's the same reason most people can't tell the difference between the speed of light and the speed of electricity.
Yep.
I do not agree but, that is ok, the difference between Zen1 and Zen3 is significant, very much so in gaming, at any resolution. Even Zen2 is noticeably better than Zen1 and Zen+.

Edit: In fact, this is the first time in a couple in at least 15 years that it is worth upgrading from one year to the next.
Yep.
Of course! I myself am about to pull the trigger on a 5900X, an ASUS Strix B550-E, and some G.Skill 3600 CL16 RAM. I'm very excited about it, and I expect to notice a big difference in my games compared to my Intel 5960X (basically equivalent to Zen 1). But just because I found a use case for more CPU power, does not mean that other people who have no use for it should be prevented from upgrading to the newest OS. A lot of people are just browsing the web and going on Facebook and Youtube. Maybe they'd like to pay for a Windows 11 upgrade so that they'd be able to run an Android app that they use for work. Why stop them?
Because they’re not paying for an upgrade. You don’t pay for upgrades. Not since windows 7. Not a revenue source. It’s all about the Benjamin’s. In this case, things 5+ years old are not really generating cash, but do generate support problems. That’s a cost, not revenue. It is what it is. Heck, last time I paid MSRP for a license was Win7. Since then, either MSDN or cheap stuff from whatever. We’re not a revenue source
 

lopoetve

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They should! I'm one of the suckers that pays $150/license for Windows Pro edition on every machine I build.
You’ve made poor life choices. Being blunt. They literally don’t expect you to pay that any more. You can thank Apple for that
 

Mazzspeed

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It wins, because that's what people want. Do you not remember when the big PC builders offered Linux? It was a disaster. Hobbyists are not a major factor in the world of computing. It's business followed by consumers (or maybe Education and then Consumers).

And as someone who's worked on Unix and Linux at work, it's a fine OS, for the backend. It's not great for the desktop. I have no idea what touch stuff Window has, because I don't see it. But TBH, if my next monitor had a touch screen, I wouldn't object to some touch stuff built into it. As long as my mouse and keyboard also work, I'm good and so are the vast majority of PC users.
Except, desktop adoption is slowing in favor of mobile devices while Windows and MacOS morph into a touch interface as a result - So obviously Windows is not what they want.

As for your comment regarding Linux on the desktop, see point above. In the end, it might be the only true desktop OS left.
 

Mazzspeed

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If gaming is no different under Linux then why no mass exodus of Windows already? Why are there so many that dual boot?

To quote myself:

I also use Linux only for the running of my business and my productivity is through the roof when the OS isn't trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype.

It's my PC, not Microsoft's PC. I am a human being, not just a consumer to manipulate and bleed dry like a hog on a hook. Furthermore, there is a mass exodus away from Windows (and MacOS) in favor of mobile devices:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
 

pendragon1

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To quote myself:



It's my PC, not Microsoft's PC. I am a human being, not just a consumer to manipulate and bleed dry like a hog on a hook. Furthermore, there is a mass exodus away from Windows (and MacOS) in favor of mobile devices:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
"trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype." none of that happens except malware and we only issues with that on macs this year...
 

Tamlin_WSGF

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Maybe they can qualify Nehalem if they throw something in the EULA to the effect of "don't get mad at us because you can't run android apps, or you got hacked by Fancy Bear because you didn't have TPM and your password was "password"
Probably not. TPM is only part of the equation it seems. Windows 10 already have support for higher security with VBS and it seems MS is making some of it mandatory for all users now. Considering how end users have moved to one point of login for many services on devices from phones, PCs and tablets, having higher security from get go seems like the right way to go. There is a lot that needs to be sandboxed, from apps to the windows kernel itself, so MS is not that wrong setting a new hardware floor to make sure Win11 can do that properly from boot.

There needs to be a cutoff point and Windows 10 have many years of support left for those that doesn´t meet the hardware requirements for Windows 11. Its not popular to say and some may hate it, but I welcome higher baseline security for windows. I don´t have the numbers for how many times I had to purge my parents systems due to viruses and other shit that had dug itself deep into windows. In the end, I installed Linux on their computers and we all were happier. Lots of the shit on their PCs came from others who had no sense of security either.
 

Gavv

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"trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype." none of that happens except malware and we only issues with that on macs this year...

I was going to say I have never been forced to teams or Skype. Ever.

I find that interesting. Even in my office environment at work I have never once been forced to either.

So that’s a curious complaint.

I do get there’s a problem with your account BS from MS. But it doesn’t force me to do anything. It’s just an annoying pop up here and there.


To quote myself:



It's my PC, not Microsoft's PC. I am a human being, not just a consumer to manipulate and bleed dry like a hog on a hook. Furthermore, there is a mass exodus away from Windows (and MacOS) in favor of mobile devices:

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

it’s still your PC.

To argue it’s MS software.

Yes mass exodus to the phone, arguably not what we are talking here. So even I acknowledged that earlier. If I gave up my PC it wouldn’t be to move to Linux.

It seems like your argument is “Well yea.” And that’s where it stops.
 

Wade88

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This had no bearing on my periodic trip to the Microcenter in Dallas but last week I went and bought a crosshair viii dark hero, 5900x ryzen, 2x 32GB ddr43600 dimms, and a 980 pro 2TB in addition to loling when 39 people were in line to buy 5 3090s. I was pleased to see fTPM while spelunking in the newfangled UEFI. I like it's fan control scheme the best.
 

Lakados

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What I want to see is with Windows 11 around the corner does that mean I can expect to see a new version of Windows Server some time soon because 2019 has been good to me so far, but are there going to be major changes in GP for Windows 11 that 2019 will not be able to accommodate? If so then I have to prepare things accordingly for a schema upgrade which really isn't a big deal, I haven't had one go wrong since Server 2003 upgrading to 2008 where it borked all the Windows XP 64-bit machines... Jesus that was a nightmare, for whatever reason the packing machine never worked properly after that probably just a coincidence as the XP machine only ran the monitoring software but from that day on it blew a sensor a week for a solid 6 months until the packing machine had a full retool, which replaced that XP-64 machine with a Vista-64 machine and that thing actually worked great. So well the whole building switched over to Vista as quickly as they could to get off the XP-64 machines they had.

I should note that it was Windows XP Professional 64 bit, which was for the standard x86 CPU's not to be confused with Windows XP 64 bit, which was for the Itanium CPU's which we were not using there.
 

travm

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People use Windows/MacOS/ChromeOS/Android/iOS because it's what comes on the equipment they purchase.

You are welcome to try to make convincing arguments otherwise though.
This is why Linux has such an issue. Good luck with tech support. It only works when you walled garden the system.
For the general consumption anyway. People who develop Linux have 0 interest in improving the usability for plebs
 

DukenukemX

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They know more than you do about market trends.
A lot of times they really don't. You all have phones don't you? The iPhone 12 Pro marketing failure. You gotta remember that corporations are run by people and people in general are really stupid.
There's a significant number of people who need Windows, but that doesn't mean they're hurting Mac sales. How many of those people own Macs or had ever considered them? Most people who absolutely need Windows... buy Windows PCs. This limits Apple's potential audience with ARM-based Macs in the picture, but it doesn't mean that Mac growth is stunted, either. The missed sales from "I absolutely need Windows, but for some reason I bought a Mac" camp may be more than offset by the people who decide a more powerful ARM Mac is also a better value.
What's the benefit of buying an ARM Mac? Battery life? Faster response time? Most users are not going to notice these benefits in the grand scheme of things, but they will notice their older x86 applications are now slower, and some Windows apps don't work. If a significant number of people need to run Windows then there's going to be a significant number of Mac users who need to run Windows apps.
Quite a few Chromebooks are ARM-based. Samsung, ASUS, Lenovo and others all make them. While they're typically low end, that's also where Chromebooks are most appealing.
You don't buy a Chromebook to use it as a laptop but to use it as a tablet with a built in keyboard. It's purely for watching movies and browsing the web and nothing more. For most people this is fine.
You don't see many ARM-based Windows laptops, but that's because.... well, Windows on ARM sucks, both due to the sluggish hardware and inferior software experience.
Yea, because ARM isn't designed for desktop use. Not yet anyway. Plus there's the issue with software compatibility.
There is a degree of lock-in involved with Apple's move, but the more logical explanation is that Apple saw Intel's struggles as holding it back. Remember, Apple was struggling to deliver meaningful updates to the Mac line as Intel couldn't move past 14nm, and wasn't doing much better with 10nm; this was Apple's chance to clear that bottleneck and potentially claim a performance advantage (which, so far, it has).
Yea but why not AMD's Ryzen instead? It's not like Apple had to retool everything if they went Ryzen. Plus competition between AMD and Intel would lower prices for Apple. The decision to go ARM was a selfish one that doesn't have Apple's customers best interest.
Apple's golden rule is to avoid relying too heavily on another company for its success. That's why Safari and many first-party creative apps exist, why its mobile devices have been using in-house chips for years, why it's developing its own modems... you get the idea. Intel's struggles just gave Apple a strong incentive to cut that dependence on outside PC chips, too. It's definitely more of a gamble than the PPC-to-Intel switch was, but the decision appears to be paying off.
Doesn't seem to be paying off when Apple is #2 in worldwide sales. I predict that Apple will go back to x86, at least for a short while because their ARM software is not mature enough yet.
Because they’re not paying for an upgrade. You don’t pay for upgrades. Not since windows 7. Not a revenue source. It’s all about the Benjamin’s. In this case, things 5+ years old are not really generating cash, but do generate support problems. That’s a cost, not revenue. It is what it is. Heck, last time I paid MSRP for a license was Win7. Since then, either MSDN or cheap stuff from whatever. We’re not a revenue source
Microsoft would be making a huge mistake to dump older hardware to avoid technical support. That older hardware isn't going anywhere either. To lose that much market share would be a huge mistake. Many companies like Google would like that kind of market share on the Desktop.
You’ve made poor life choices. Being blunt. They literally don’t expect you to pay that any more. You can thank Apple for that
Linux, Android, pretty much all OS's don't charge a fee. Apple isn't unique in that regard.
This is why Linux has such an issue. Good luck with tech support. It only works when you walled garden the system.
For the general consumption anyway. People who develop Linux have 0 interest in improving the usability for plebs
Valve is very much interested in improving the usability of Linux for plebs. It's been their goal for many years now.
 

Armenius

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It is revisionist. Sure the people in this forum know enough to watch for shady shit but how much of the population is made up of people like us? A minuscule amount.

How many people out there clicked the red X thinking that would make Win10 NOT install? Far more than the people like us on this forum. Let's not play semantics here. MS pulled some really shady shit with getting Win10 to install and that most certainly lead to Win10 being automatically installed WITHOUT THE USERS PERMISSION. Period.

MS fucked many people in the ass without so much as the courtesy of a reach around. I won't even bring up how many of those people who were upgraded without permission also didn't understand what they were doing when they tied their Yahoo/AOL/Gmail/insertaccount here to the MS account that was touted during Win10 setup.

Bottom line is MS is again trying to pull a fast one simply because it benefits their pocket book, yet so many people out there are excusing it and then using revisionist history with Win10 to justify their excuses.

This is a place where the open source community is so much better than the Windows community. When the FOSS community sees stupid shady shit they raise holy hell and it forces change. Look at the backlash Ubuntu had when they added the Amazon stuff a few years back. Look at the brouhaha around Audacity in recent weeks. Muse Group has been backpedaling for weeks with the new privacy policy, GPL violations, and telemetry they're trying to add. Due to the extreme backlash distros now have the ability to set a simple flag to not include the telemetry bullshit. There's also a possibility that Audacity will simply be forked and the telemetry shit not even available at all.

That type of backlash is what we need against MS but instead people just excuse it all away and MS goes about their day. I mean come on it's stupid for my Intel i7-6820HQ in my Dell Precision 5510 to not be supported. How anybody could try to argue that a quad core with 8 threads @ 3.6 is too slow to run Windows 11 is beyond comprehension. It also isn't because of something like Spectre/Meltdown. That's just a cop out and a bullshit excuse. Like others have said MS is simply forcing obsolescence to try to artificially boost PC sales which means more money for them.
The argument was that Microsoft was forcing "everybody" to upgrade to Windows 10, when that was clearly not the case. With 8.1 Pro there was no special process I had to go through to prevent the upgrade to Windows 10.
 

cjcox

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This is why Linux has such an issue. Good luck with tech support. It only works when you walled garden the system.
For the general consumption anyway. People who develop Linux have 0 interest in improving the usability for plebs
That's not true. You may "feel" it's true. But I can promise you (without a doubt) it is not true.
 

Dk975

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I just remembered that Google acquired Neverware which makes CloudReadyOS, the Google Chrome alternative. I bet Google will launch an ad campaign and tell people with systems that don't support Win11 to switch over to ChromeOS that can be installed on any computer. This might do well since ChromeOS is simple and familiar to people, and just imagine if they could have people download an .EXE file in Windows, and it just transforms it to ChromeOS without much effort.
 

Aurelius

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What's the benefit of buying an ARM Mac? Battery life? Faster response time? Most users are not going to notice these benefits in the grand scheme of things, but they will notice their older x86 applications are now slower, and some Windows apps don't work. If a significant number of people need to run Windows then there's going to be a significant number of Mac users who need to run Windows apps.
Er... wait, what? People aren't going to notice that their systems are noticeably snappier, or that they don't have to plug in quite so often? The most common gripes that prompt laptop upgrades are "it's too slow" and "battery life is terrible." Yes, they will notice these improvements.

Simultaneously, I haven't heard of many complaints that translated x86 apps are noticeably slower... and that's a temporary issue as more apps are ARM-native. Certainly many creative and productivity apps have already made the leap.


Yea, because ARM isn't designed for desktop use. Not yet anyway. Plus there's the issue with software compatibility.
No, it's because Windows on ARM, specifically, sucks. The chips are old, warmed-over parts; Microsoft has done a poor job of both fostering ARM app development and ensuring compatibility; it's a disgrace that 64-bit x86 emulation wasn't on the cards from day one.

You say ARM wasn't designed for the desktop because you've never used a decent implementation. I'd say Apple's is the first — it's faster than x86 equivalents, and the software transition has been largely seamless. It's just a question of whether or not it scales well to higher-end systems.


Yea but why not AMD's Ryzen instead? It's not like Apple had to retool everything if they went Ryzen. Plus competition between AMD and Intel would lower prices for Apple. The decision to go ARM was a selfish one that doesn't have Apple's customers best interest.
I can think of a few reasons. Most likely, Apple didn't think AMD was guaranteed to be a viable long-term solution. Remember how AMD briefly toppled Intel with early Athlon chips, only to lose its lead for years? Ryzen is doing well now, but it would be foolish of Apple to shift all its weight behind AMD only to have to consider flipping back if AMD trips up.

And as we've recently seen, custom silicon lets Apple do things that wouldn't be possible with comparable x86 chips. For example, the current iPad Pro uses an M1 chip — try stuffing a Ryzen Mobile CPU with a 15W TDP into a fanless tablet that still gets 10-plus hours of real-world use. That helps Apple cut development costs, of course, but it also means it basically has the fastest tablet on the planet (iPadOS needs to catch up, but that's another story).

Don't overlook form factor improvements, either. We haven't seen Apple do much with ARM-native designs (the new iMac benefits, but it's a desktop), but it's expected to take fuller advantage of its native hardware in the next several months.

And while this certainly helps Apple, it also means that the company can be more aggressive about refreshing products. No more having to wait a year and a half (or more) just because Intel either doesn't have a chip update or produced an upgrade so meaningless that there's no point to using it. I'd say that helps users if it leads to computers that make meaningful advances each year rather than "it's a few percentage points faster, maybe."


Doesn't seem to be paying off when Apple is #2 in worldwide sales. I predict that Apple will go back to x86, at least for a short while because their ARM software is not mature enough yet.
It won't any time soon. Count on it.

And just which stats show that Apple is second in worldwide sales? I've checked IDC and Gartner, and they don't say that about Q1 2021 (the Q2 data will likely have to wait as the period just finished). US, I've seen in the past, but not worldwide. I did, however, see data from both companies suggesting that Apple was one of the fastest-growing major vendors.
 
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lopoetve

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A lot of times they really don't. You all have phones don't you? The iPhone 12 Pro marketing failure. You gotta remember that corporations are run by people and people in general are really stupid.

What's the benefit of buying an ARM Mac? Battery life? Faster response time? Most users are not going to notice these benefits in the grand scheme of things, but they will notice their older x86 applications are now slower, and some Windows apps don't work. If a significant number of people need to run Windows then there's going to be a significant number of Mac users who need to run Windows apps.

You don't buy a Chromebook to use it as a laptop but to use it as a tablet with a built in keyboard. It's purely for watching movies and browsing the web and nothing more. For most people this is fine.

Yea, because ARM isn't designed for desktop use. Not yet anyway. Plus there's the issue with software compatibility.

Yea but why not AMD's Ryzen instead? It's not like Apple had to retool everything if they went Ryzen. Plus competition between AMD and Intel would lower prices for Apple. The decision to go ARM was a selfish one that doesn't have Apple's customers best interest.

Doesn't seem to be paying off when Apple is #2 in worldwide sales. I predict that Apple will go back to x86, at least for a short while because their ARM software is not mature enough yet.

Microsoft would be making a huge mistake to dump older hardware to avoid technical support. That older hardware isn't going anywhere either. To lose that much market share would be a huge mistake. Many companies like Google would like that kind of market share on the Desktop.

Linux, Android, pretty much all OS's don't charge a fee. Apple isn't unique in that regard.

Valve is very much interested in improving the usability of Linux for plebs. It's been their goal for many years now.
It makes sense when those using older hardware aren’t generating you revenue. Market share is not a significant metric at the moment; revenue and cash flow is, and their revenue/cash flow/margins are made on cloud, services, and enterprise agreements. Home users stick with it because it’s compatible with what they use at work.

As for ryzen- no guarantee amd stays on top. Back when they did the Intel switch, Apple didn’t have any experience building their own chips. Now they do, and controlling the whole stack brings them business value. The stuff people want to run (games aside), run fine on M1 - especially when we deal with compatibility with windows (thanks Microsoft), which makes Apple a valid choice. If Microsoft ported office and one drive to linux, we’d see adoption tick up- same as if we saw the Adobe creative suite move over, etc. Even da Vinci resolve doesn’t run on Linux except CentOS (iirc), because they’re being weird.
 

lopoetve

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That's not true. You may "feel" it's true. But I can promise you (without a doubt) it is not true.
It is and it isn’t. They’re definitely making efforts to improve it, but the bar is set differently.
EG: to install the OneDrive open source client (which is basic sync only), you have to either compile source, or add a different repo for almost every distro out there. This is easy; follow the steps and it works- but on windows it’s built in, and Apple is double click an installer. The bar is different because the user expectation has generally been different.

Steam on Apple? Double click. Same for windows. Ubuntu? Add a couple of packages after searching a weird error message, or use the flat pack with some modifications, etc… oh, and Google up the exact font package you need too. Again, easy- but also NOT the same or as easy
 

travm

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That's not true. You may "feel" it's true. But I can promise you (without a doubt) it is not true.
I would really like to believe that, but can you prove it?

my experience goes something like this;

Comment "feature A would really improve ease of use"
Response "you can already do this with
Code:
sudo 12o;i4u1q23890-45701239puithakl;sdjghw90p4785 1q235890yu2134908572349-87awdkil;awdeg689 7834t q8jkilopasdf opiasdut890- 23745 uq235uioy234590-8712345790-[u12345 2345890 723457890- werioptju349op58340-2985 234578=9902345890-23457=903469o[ui23467890qwetjio;asdgjkl;asdgf7y8=90235 23589=0123458=90 2345890u890aswdet
we don't want to overcomplicate things"
oh and, RTFM.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
4,370
Yea but why not AMD's Ryzen instead? It's not like Apple had to retool everything if they went Ryzen. Plus competition between AMD and Intel would lower prices for Apple. The decision to go ARM was a selfish one that doesn't have Apple's customers best interest.
AMD will sell and ship some 4-6 million Ryzen CPU’s in a year, combined to private and OEM contractors.
Apple has shipped almost 6 million M1 MacBooks since their launch.
AMD is not capable of providing somebody like Apple enough CPU’s to meet their demand.
You also have to realize AMD’s current mobile offerings are not good and still loose to Intel there. Apples M1 watt for watt trounce everything in that power envelope in just about every aspect and it’s only a first gen part.
 
Last edited:

travm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,225
AMD is not capable of providing somebody like Apple enough CPU’s to meet their demand.
Technically its TSMC that supplies everyone in this regard. If AMD was contracted to, and TSMC could produce it, AMD would have no issue supplying any number of chips
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
2,008
I would really like to believe that, but can you prove it?
Yes. Because, I'm not lying and I work on open source projects. In fact, I don't think there are too many developers working on frontend pieces that aren't at least indirectly involved on making things easier.

I'm puzzled that anyone would think so.

I am open to direct Windows vs. Linux challenges though, if not for anything to show where developers (the apparent liars of the bunch) need to work harder.
 

travm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,225
Yes. Because, I'm not lying and I work on open source projects. In fact, I don't think there are too many developers working on frontend pieces that aren't at least indirectly involved on making things easier.

I'm puzzled that anyone would think so.

I am open to direct Windows vs. Linux challenges though, if not for anything to show where developers (the apparent liars of the bunch) need to work harder.
I suppose it's not fair to lump all Linux developers into the same pile, and if you are constantly working towards improving usability for people who don't care how the inner workings of the OS work you should be applauded and supported.
However that isn't proof.

Which application do you work on?
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
2,008
I suppose it's not fair to lump all Linux developers into the same pile, and if you are constantly working towards improving usability for people who don't care how the inner workings of the OS work you should be applauded and supported.
However that isn't proof.

Which application do you work on?
Code wise, I work on (I contribute on a lot of things though):

CheckMk
checkmk.png

Netdata
netdata.gif


SurLaTablo (I do own this project)
surlatablo.gif

PmWiki

Other projects (my own stuff):

TVDiffusion
https://endlessnow.com/ten/Video/tenota2.mp4

ImPress (old, but did win an award at the first O'Reilly conference)

Hooru (network asset discovery)

dmidecode (not named yet python replacement thereof)
python-dmidecode.png

Backupsys

I do contribute, at least with requirements, testing and ideas for:

systemd
samba
 
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