Windows 11 May Not Run on Early Ryzen, Threadripper, Skylake-X, or Any Pre-2016 Intel PC

GotNoRice

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Did you have to make any registry changes, or just boot to install media and install as you normally would?

No registry changes, but if you swap the "appraiserres.dll" file in the Sources folder with the equivalent file from a Windows 10 ISO, it will bypass the check during install. I've also observed that if you do a "free upgrade" directly from Windows 7 to Windows 11, it sometimes will bypass this check even if you have not swapped the file.
 

Gavv

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Linus Torvalds has said this is the reason Linux on the desktop hasn't had much traction. How many people you know will go through the trouble to erase their computer to install Linux or any other OS?

A lot if the OS is better.

The problem all around is MS is the standard.

Gaming = better
Installation of programs = better
Office productivity = better

When Linux make installation of everything easier. Then they will take a giant step forward. It’s probably better than when I tried it last. But if it’s not insert media, click a button and go.. why change?

Same with games. It has to work. Not is has to work by doing this and then this or maybe this.

Hands down office is far superior. There’s no contest here.

For the most part people are lazy. I am. I want my stuff to work, I don’t want to have to tweak this or that and if I do it’s a rarity.

This is why Linux sucks balls. Not because it comes pretty installed. We been enjoying not having to get our hands dirty which allows us more time to do other things. So why change?

There’s a shit ton of value in convenience.
 

wandplus

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I ran the MS PC Health app earlier and discovered this for myself with a Haswell machine using an i5 4670k. I'm personally fine with switching it over to a flavor of Linux when support for Win 10 runs out, or hell maybe before that.

My concern is finding a version of linux for my mother's desktop (seeing as it has a more recent Pentium, but not recent enough for Win 11) that will play the MS Windows 7 suite of card games and that won't uninstall them at every fucking minor version update. :rolleyes:
Linux Mint looks pretty sweet.
 

bigdogchris

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No registry changes, but if you swap the "appraiserres.dll" file in the Sources folder with the equivalent file from a Windows 10 ISO, it will bypass the check during install. I've also observed that if you do a "free upgrade" directly from Windows 7 to Windows 11, it sometimes will bypass this check even if you have not swapped the file.
OK so the confirm, you did have to update the file?
 

Vermillion

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A lot if the OS is better.

The problem all around is MS is the standard.

Gaming = better
Installation of programs = better
Office productivity = better

When Linux make installation of everything easier. Then they will take a giant step forward. It’s probably better than when I tried it last. But if it’s not insert media, click a button and go.. why change?

Same with games. It has to work. Not is has to work by doing this and then this or maybe this.

Hands down office is far superior. There’s no contest here.

For the most part people are lazy. I am. I want my stuff to work, I don’t want to have to tweak this or that and if I do it’s a rarity.

This is why Linux sucks balls. Not because it comes pretty installed. We been enjoying not having to get our hands dirty which allows us more time to do other things. So why change?

There’s a shit ton of value in convenience.
Gaming = better: only because Games are built for Windows. Easily rectified but using Vulkan or OpenGL vs DirectX which would make the games cross platform in the blink of an eye.
Insatalltion of programs=better: Not even close. I'd say it's actually easier (and safer) now on Linux. What Ubuntu (and any of it's derivatives) and Elementary have done has honestly made software installation easier than Windows. Snaps and Flatpaks with their stores and one click installs. KDE has that built into Discover as well. Gone are the CLI days unless that's what you want to do.
Office productivity = better: Only because people THINK it's better. For Joe Average something LibreOffice is more than enough. I've actually moved to OnlyOffice which is another great open source suite that has better compatibility with MS Office files. MS Office is only "Better" now in Enterprise where you need the power of something like Excel which the opensource ones just can't compete with yet.
 

mlcarson

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A lot if the OS is better.

The problem all around is MS is the standard.

Gaming = better
Installation of programs = better
Office productivity = better

When Linux make installation of everything easier. Then they will take a giant step forward. It’s probably better than when I tried it last. But if it’s not insert media, click a button and go.. why change?

Same with games. It has to work. Not is has to work by doing this and then this or maybe this.

Hands down office is far superior. There’s no contest here.

For the most part people are lazy. I am. I want my stuff to work, I don’t want to have to tweak this or that and if I do it’s a rarity.

This is why Linux sucks balls. Not because it comes pretty installed. We been enjoying not having to get our hands dirty which allows us more time to do other things. So why change?

There’s a shit ton of value in convenience.
Installing Linux is not the pain it once was. Most Distro's use Calamares and it's just as easy as Windows. Office should not be a concern for anybody at this point. I use Softmaker Office 2021 which has a native Linux install and think it's better than Microsoft Office for what I use it for. WPS Office and OnlyOffice are also good alternatives to Libreoffice and Microsoft Office. If you have to have Microsoft Office then use the web version. A native app is going to better on its native platform so if you're trying to primarily run Windows games/apps on Linux then expect some issues. My expectation is that Microsoft will destroy its own customer base via unpopular design issues where it think it knows best or by simply pushing people to more and more cloud-based operations. So Windows is more convenient until it pisses you off for the last time and you switch.
 

1_rick

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MS Office is only "Better" now in Enterprise where you need the power of something like Excel which the opensource ones just can't compete with yet.
The corporate world pretty much runs on Excel, so that's a pretty big "only". I've worked for and with a lot of companies and every one of them uses it extensively, frequently in place of better options. I know a company that bought a commercial full-suite payroll application, and they track a bunch of their benefits and taxes outside of it in Excel. Why? I can't even imagine, and as far as I can tell, it's not as if they don't know they have something far better than Excel, that's purpose-made for what they want to do, but they don't use it. It costs them a ton of extra work, too.
 

lopoetve

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How do you create a Microsoft account with no Internet?
LAWL. Y u have computer?

Serious answer: Don't use home - I haven't checked, early versions let you bypass if you didn't have a connection, but if you ever got one again, it wanted you to set one up. I haven't installed home in ... well, 4-5 years though.
 

lopoetve

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Gaming = better: only because Games are built for Windows. Easily rectified but using Vulkan or OpenGL vs DirectX which would make the games cross platform in the blink of an eye.
It's getting there. Especially with Proton.
Insatalltion of programs=better: Not even close. I'd say it's actually easier (and safer) now on Linux. What Ubuntu (and any of it's derivatives) and Elementary have done has honestly made software installation easier than Windows. Snaps and Flatpaks with their stores and one click installs. KDE has that built into Discover as well. Gone are the CLI days unless that's what you want to do.
True, but it's DIFFERENT, and that causes some headaches. People have piles of downloaded binaries that won't work, and there are plenty of things out there that don't have linux installs - and not everything works perfectly, even in the flatpack world (See some of the tutorials for installing steam, for instance, as there are some extra dependencies that aren't regularly captured around fonts/etc).
Office productivity = better: Only because people THINK it's better. For Joe Average something LibreOffice is more than enough. I've actually moved to OnlyOffice which is another great open source suite that has better compatibility with MS Office files. MS Office is only "Better" now in Enterprise where you need the power of something like Excel which the opensource ones just can't compete with yet.
Eh. I use both ~constantly~ all day long (work laptop is MSFT, work workstation is Ubuntu 20.04). MS still has that one beat hands-down, especially when you're doing something more complex than a basic book report or letter. Excel has a pile of add-ons sure, but so does powerpoint, integration between decks (copy/paste tricks and theme management) is better, OneDrive integration even for home-users is great (and works with multi-access), grammar checker is more advanced on MSFT, etc. Libre is a LOT better than it used to be (haven't worked with Only yet), but... it ain't there yet. And it LOOKS and feels clunky in comparison, which yes, is shallow as fuck, but guess what? It matters. I don't WANT microsoft to be better at this, but it still is - especially galling is the lack of a good OneDrive client for linux, which I thought there ~used~ to be.
 

DukenukemX

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Then don't make definitive statements about why Apple slipped to second in the US.

Canalys and other market analysis firms have a more plausible explanation as it is: Chromebooks were very popular low-cost options as people continued to work and learn from home, and vendors like HP sell a lot of cheap Chromebooks. Apple is a premium computer brand, so its growth was limited. Doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
I don't need market analysis firms to tell me why people do and don't use a product. If Chromebooks and other HP products have displaced Apple then that's the direction the market is going. More than likely there's a significant number of people who do need to run Windows applications and the M1 makes this problematic. Especially with the youth where gaming while going to college is an attractive option.
The Surface line isn't really the threat to Apple that Microsoft envisioned. It's good stuff, but Microsoft is too hung up on incremental upgrades and so far has a non-starter in the Surface Pro X.
Yea but that doesn't mean Microsoft isn't trying.
I wouldn't say Apple is isolating itself, either. If anything, it's doing what it should have been doing for a while: giving you a clear reason to buy a Mac beyond the software (including integration with the Apple ecosystem) and a few "oh, that's nice" hardware features. The M1 MacBook Air in particular keeps winning a lot of contests: it's faster than equivalent Intel-based laptops, typically lasts hours longer on battery, and is completely fanless. Even if you're not a huge fan of macOS, it may simply be the better system for common tasks.
How many laptop companies you see going ARM? Apple is isolating themselves, and not just by ARM but with Metal API as well. So instead of looking for growth to me it seems Apple is trying to lock customers into their ecosystem.
I certainly wouldn't count on Windows 11 leading to a surge of Mac users, in part because it's just not likely to be as much of a debacle as Vista or Windows 8. But it plays into Apple's hands, and it might lead to a Windows 8-style sales slump where PC buyers (particularly business customers) simply hold off.
When Vista fucked up, some people went Mac because the 360 and PS3 were good alternatives to PC gaming. Windows 11 sucks but it won't suck in the same way as Vista did. The only problem so far is that Windows 11 has unrealistic requirements. Once you have it you basically have Windows 10 with a different UI. When 2025 comes around and Windows 10 no longer gets support then things are different. Any surge of people leaving Mac for Windows 11 is because of the M1. Praise it all you want but it can't run modern Windows games.
 

mvmiller12

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OK so the confirm, you did have to update the file?

Well, I just installed it on my 2012 Dell XPS 15 (L521X) machine with hardware TPM 1.2, Secure Boot, Core i7 3612QM quad-core CPU w/hyperthreading, nVidia GeForce 640M and Intel Integrated GPUs (Optimus), 16G of RAM, 512G mSATA SSD (System), 1TB HDD (Storage), and Blu-Ray reader.

It failed Microsoft's upgrade checker tool for both CPU unsupported & TPM <2.0, but all I had to do to install it was join the Windows Insider Dev channel and run Windows Update. Nothing else needed to be done; installed fine and runs well. I read a statement from Microsoft that they were not enforcing the TPM and CPU generation requirements at this time for the Dev build in order to get a better idea of performance on those machines for people choosing to test it.

I have thus far not run into any major problems with it on this machine, and no minor ones that I have not also encountered on my fully supported desktop machine (#1 in sig). I have, however, run into a few major bugs on my "Fully Supported" main machine. I have posted a few bug reports in the Feedback Hub, including a bug with Auto-HDR making the screen in Supreme Commander 2 very dim on my main display when it is enabled (LG 55" TV with HDR); image on my secondary display (Dell 27" 1440p IPS monitor) looked fine. I also filed another where the primary screen on my main rig (immediately after update) would not display a picture until I rebooted into Safe Mode and uninstalled the AMD graphics driver - after rebooting back into normal mode, I was able to reinstall it and it has been fine ever since. Again, both of these bugs were encountered using the "Fully Supported" machine.
 

Mazzspeed

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A lot if the OS is better.

The problem all around is MS is the standard.

Gaming = better
Installation of programs = better
Office productivity = better

When Linux make installation of everything easier. Then they will take a giant step forward. It’s probably better than when I tried it last. But if it’s not insert media, click a button and go.. why change?

Same with games. It has to work. Not is has to work by doing this and then this or maybe this.

Hands down office is far superior. There’s no contest here.

For the most part people are lazy. I am. I want my stuff to work, I don’t want to have to tweak this or that and if I do it’s a rarity.

This is why Linux sucks balls. Not because it comes pretty installed. We been enjoying not having to get our hands dirty which allows us more time to do other things. So why change?

There’s a shit ton of value in convenience.
Installing software really isn't hard, in fact the terminal is vastly better as you can actually see what's happening all the time, as opposed to requestors popping up and disappearing for minuites at a time leaving the user wondering what's going on. Having said that, many software packages are .RPM or .DEB's now, which are no harder to install than software under MacOS - In fact, MacOS is amazingly similar to Linux once you get passed the basics, in many cases the terminal is absolutely needed to perform certain tasks (including the simple task of writing to an NTFS partition, something Linux does via the GUI file manager). The biggest problem with Windows is some .msi from some obscure corner of the internet is, quite simply, to easy to install as you have to cater to the unknowledgable masses - Resulting in PuP's that go on to download masses of Malware.

I game under Linux no different to Windows and the experience is great, compatibility would be 100% if it wasn't for overzealous client side DRM/anticheat and in many cases performance is actually higher than native Windows. I also use Linux only for the running of my business and my productivity is through the roof when the OS isn't trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype.

In terms of outright compatibility with ISO standards intended to increase cross platform compatibility - MS Office is the least compatible office suite marketed as the most compatible office suite. I find Libre Office superior to MS Office and I'm sure many others would also if they wern't literally forced onto MS/Adobe products from the second they attended primary school.

Stating you're resistant to change and don't want to learn something new is essentially just a cop out. As you rightfully stated - Laziness. But they'll work out how to navigate their new smart TV just fine...
 

Mazzspeed

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I have a computer that I leave disconnected while I set it up precisely so it can't force me to create a Microsoft account, duh.
If the machine is running Windows 10 Home and you're running a local account, be prepared for a full screen requestor every three days telling you to sign up for a 'non limited account' - And the only two options are to either sign up for a non local account or defer the message for another three days.

Awesome.
 

GotNoRice

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OK so the confirm, you did have to update the file?

To do a fresh install, or upgrade from Windows 10, yes. Although if upgrading from Windows 7 I found that sometimes it skips the check on it's own. Note that in my case it wasn't complaining about TPM (probably because they temporary lifted that requirement during testing) but it was still complaining about other requirements such as lack of secureboot, etc. The DLL file that is swapped is only used during the initial phase of the install process and doesn't result in any changes to what is actually installed.
 

lopoetve

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Installing software really isn't hard, in fact the terminal is vastly better as you can actually see what's happening all the time, as opposed to requestors popping up and disappearing for minuites at a time leaving the user wondering what's going on.
Your generic home user left the terminal behind in 1993. While I happen to agree with you - I'm a CLI scripting wizard - to others, what we do is literally that - wizardry. I've seen senior "engineers" get baffled when I'm flipping through log files with various 15 item long grep strings - they didn't even know what cat was.

Having said that, many software packages are .RPM or .DEB's now, which are no harder to install than software under MacOS - In fact, MacOS is amazingly similar to Linux once you get passed the basics, in many cases the terminal is absolutely needed to perform certain tasks (including the simple task of writing to an NTFS partition, something Linux does via the GUI file manager). The biggest problem with Windows is some .msi from some obscure corner of the internet is, quite simply, to easy to install as you have to cater to the unknowledgable masses - Resulting in PuP's that go on to download masses of Malware.
MacOS is generally a "drag item one onto item two" - which is about as simple as it gets (props to them). All BSD under the hood, really. The problem is your last statement - that's what people EXPECT. So, the way to make that safer? Require signed binaries unless you're smart enough to turn that off.
I game under Linux no different to Windows and the experience is great, compatibility would be 100% if it wasn't for overzealous client side DRM/anticheat and in many cases performance is actually higher than native Windows. I also use Linux only for the running of my business and my productivity is through the roof when the OS isn't trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype.
Most things run well. I've only had issues now with Call of Duty Black Ops 2, but I didn't spend much time fiddling with it either.
In terms of outright compatibility with ISO standards intended to increase cross platform compatibility - MS Office is the least compatible office suite marketed as the most compatible office suite. I find Libre Office superior to MS Office and I'm sure many others would also if they wern't literally forced onto MS/Adobe products from the second they attended primary school.
Standards are meaningless when the world has no interest in following the standard. The globally accepted standard (for better or worse) is Microsoft Office. There are also a multitude of tasks that just don't work as well yet in Libre (it gets better with each release, yes, but it ain't there yet). Hell, I think they had to recreate the NPV bug that Excel has had since the mid-90s as everyone was USED to it - even though it's technically wrong. I don't ~like~ MS Office, but it does what it's supposed to do, and I don't have to worry about compatibility with the folks I'm sharing data/files with. They're using the same thing, and we can accomplish our tasks - it's a tool. I've tried to do those tasks with Libre, and some are impossible, and others exceptionally difficult. Others are fine. It all depends, but everyone knows what office can do - and that's what they build expectations around.
Stating you're resistant to change and don't want to learn something new is essentially just a cop out. As you rightfully stated - Laziness. But they'll work out how to navigate their new smart TV just fine...
Learning a TV brings new value. Learning a new OS delivers effectively the same value as learning the minor tweaks to Windows 10 will, and the latter is far easier and less confusing.
 

1_rick

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If the machine is running Windows 10 Home and you're running a local account, be prepared for a full screen requestor every three days telling you to sign up for a 'non limited account' - And the only two options are to either sign up for a non local account or defer the message for another three days.

Awesome.
I'm typing this reply on Windows 10 Home version 21H1 build 19043.1052, and I have never seen that. I believe I installed Windows in early December. Edit: it was likely either 1909 or 20H2 that I originally installed, but I don't know for sure.
 

Mazzspeed

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Your generic home user left the terminal behind in 1993. While I happen to agree with you - I'm a CLI scripting wizard - to others, what we do is literally that - wizardry. I've seen senior "engineers" get baffled when I'm flipping through log files with various 15 item long grep strings - they didn't even know what cat was.
Actually, the terminal was never left behind. One of the features of Windows [cough] 11, so I hear, is an improved terminal with a better powershell implementation.

MacOS is generally a "drag item one onto item two" - which is about as simple as it gets (props to them). All BSD under the hood, really. The problem is your last statement - that's what people EXPECT. So, the way to make that safer? Require signed binaries unless you're smart enough to turn that off.
Hmm. Obviously you're a very simplistic MacOS user? Either that or you're not a Mac user at all and like most Windows users know little about what you're talking about.

Most things run well. I've only had issues now with Call of Duty Black Ops 2, but I didn't spend much time fiddling with it either.
So no different to Windows then.

Standards are meaningless when the world has no interest in following the standard. The globally accepted standard (for better or worse) is Microsoft Office. There are also a multitude of tasks that just don't work as well yet in Libre (it gets better with each release, yes, but it ain't there yet). Hell, I think they had to recreate the NPV bug that Excel has had since the mid-90s as everyone was USED to it - even though it's technically wrong. I don't ~like~ MS Office, but it does what it's supposed to do, and I don't have to worry about compatibility with the folks I'm sharing data/files with. They're using the same thing, and we can accomplish our tasks - it's a tool. I've tried to do those tasks with Libre, and some are impossible, and others exceptionally difficult. Others are fine. It all depends, but everyone knows what office can do - and that's what they build expectations around.
Well, that's what Microsoft want you to believe - After all, they were the ones that manipulated the situation surrounding .docx and .xlsx, splitting one standard into two for their own benefit. Still doesn't change the fact that when a file opens under Libre Office and WPS Office but not MS Office it's obvious MS Office isn't the application with an issue regarding an ISO standard.

But you believe what Redmond feeds you.

Learning a TV brings new value. Learning a new OS delivers effectively the same value as learning the minor tweaks to Windows 10 will, and the latter is far easier and less confusing.
And yet people have adapted to Android, iOS, the UI of the ATM, the UI of the touch screen menu at McDonalds - Even the infotainment in their brand new car they feel they need to buy every three years as good little capitalists.

There's no confusion. The Firefox icon is still Firefox, the Chrome icon is still Chrome, the icon with an envelope is still the mail client, the icon representing a fairly obvious document is naturally the word processor and the icon representing a document with a table is obviously the spreadsheet application - It's hardly rocket science any more, as consumers we're literally bombarded by computer generated UI's and we cope just fine.

I have never struggled to achieve anything under Libre Office, is the implication that I have a greater capacity to learn something new? I also haven't encountered a compatibility issue in around five years under Libre Office, perhaps I'm just lucky? Or perhaps it's no longer the issue it once was.
I'm typing this reply on Windows 10 Home version 21H1 build 19043.1052, and I have never seen that. I believe I installed Windows in early December. Edit: it was likely either 1909 or 20H2 that I originally installed, but I don't know for sure.
Give it time. Just like the time people told me that Microsoft wasn't forcing the use of Microsoft accounts when installing Windows 10 Home while connected to the internet as they'd never encountered it so it mustn't be true. I guess the Egg ended up on their face.

Microsoft is not your friend.
 

cybereality

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If you don't trust the maker of your OS enough to create an account with them, and go as far as pulling the plug on your internet or adding some crazy firewall rules, well, maybe you don't trust them enough to use the OS at all.
 

lopoetve

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Actually, the terminal was never left behind. One of the features of Windows [cough] 11, so I hear, is an improved terminal with a better powershell implementation.
And how many average home users use powershell? Hint: almost none. The enterprise does, sure. We enthusiasts do, sure. But most folks don’t even know it’s there. Those are the ones that don’t care about changing requirements
Hmm. Obviously you're a very simplistic MacOS user? Either that or you're not a Mac user at all and like most Windows users know little about what you're talking about.
Been using it regularly since 10.2 on a bronze keyboard PowerBook. Had the G4 aluminum, an iBook, 13” MacBook Pro, 15”, and now have another, 2015 MacBook Pro. Tend to use quicksilver for a launcher. It’s BSD under the hood, which I get along with fine. But for an idiot user, installing things is literally dragging from the dmg to the applications folder shortcut. Linux isn’t quite that easy yet


So no different to Windows then.
Minus the part where the help
Pages will be there for windows, but not Linux? From the vendor that is
Well, that's what Microsoft want you to believe - After all, they were the ones that manipulated the situation surrounding .docx and .xlsx, splitting one standard into two for their own benefit. Still doesn't change the fact that when a file opens under Libre Office and WPS Office but not MS Office it's obvious MS Office isn't the application with an issue regarding an ISO standard.

But you believe what Redmond feeds you.
Doesnt matter when the world is using the MS Office formats. Business runs on it; at least within the Fortune 500, and you better believe they’re the ones I’m paying attention to. They’re the ones I have to work with. There are tasks I do daily that LibreOffice can’t handle. I wish it could; I’d rather not be paying for a personal office365 subscription. But I do, because that’s what the world uses, and that’s what works

And yet people have adapted to Android, iOS, the UI of the ATM, the UI of the touch screen menu at McDonalds - Even the infotainment in their brand new car they feel they need to buy every three years as good little capitalists.

There's no confusion. The Firefox icon is still Firefox, the Chrome icon is still Chrome, the icon with an envelope is still the mail client, the icon representing a fairly obvious document is naturally the word processor and the icon representing a document with a table is obviously the spreadsheet application - It's hardly rocket science any more, as consumers we're literally bombarded by computer generated UI's and we cope just fine.

You’re grossly simplifying and you know it. Claiming that thunderbird works like outlook isn’t accurate. Nor is claiming that the other office suite products work the same true either. There are differences. Some of those matter. Some don’t. They definitely matter to me and my customers. Can an average home user get by just fine on Linux? Sure. Certainly. But why the heck would they want to? There’s no compelling value there

I have never struggled to achieve anything under Libre Office, is the implication that I have a greater capacity to learn something new? I also haven't encountered a compatibility issue in around five years under Libre Office, perhaps I'm just lucky? Or perhaps it's no longer the issue it once was.
You’re not integrating with office365, nor are you doing complex analytical models or complex presentations, I suspect. Both of those don’t work the same (if at all) between them. I use both daily. The features aren’t there. As a basic example, On average, I have 12-15 people editing the same file simultaneously, with version tracking, conflict locking, separate undo/redo trees, and the ability to lock for major changes with a mouse click with RBAC. Let me know how to do that with libreoffice snd linux. Basic word doc even- nothing complex. That’s before we get into some of the insane spreadsheet messes I have similar numbers editing.

Give it time. Just like the time people told me that Microsoft wasn't forcing the use of Microsoft accounts when installing Windows 10 Home while connected to the internet as they'd never encountered it so it mustn't be true. I guess the Egg ended up on their face.

Microsoft is not your friend.
No, they’re a business that makes tools. And they make pretty good ones; ones that the rest of the world has accepted as default. Is what it is; that’s not a battle worth fighting to me. Those tools make me a lot of money- and until the world changes the tool of choice, I’m likely not for anything that is work related either. It’s not worth the fight- I have a job to do

Aside from that, what value does Linux bring to an average home user? It’s fun for me, so I run it- and there are advantages for some weird stuff I do, but for my dad or mom? Why would they change? What value does that being?
 

lopoetve

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I'm typing this reply on Windows 10 Home version 21H1 build 19043.1052, and I have never seen that. I believe I installed Windows in early December. Edit: it was likely either 1909 or 20H2 that I originally installed, but I don't know for sure.
New installs definitely do
 

Gavv

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Installing software really isn't hard, in fact the terminal is vastly better as you can actually see what's happening all the time, as opposed to requestors popping up and disappearing for minuites at a time leaving the user wondering what's going on. Having said that, many software packages are .RPM or .DEB's now, which are no harder to install than software under MacOS - In fact, MacOS is amazingly similar to Linux once you get passed the basics, in many cases the terminal is absolutely needed to perform certain tasks (including the simple task of writing to an NTFS partition, something Linux does via the GUI file manager). The biggest problem with Windows is some .msi from some obscure corner of the internet is, quite simply, to easy to install as you have to cater to the unknowledgable masses - Resulting in PuP's that go on to download masses of Malware.

I game under Linux no different to Windows and the experience is great, compatibility would be 100% if it wasn't for overzealous client side DRM/anticheat and in many cases performance is actually higher than native Windows. I also use Linux only for the running of my business and my productivity is through the roof when the OS isn't trying to update/force me onto a MS account/running slow due to malware or constantly trying to force me to use MS Teams and Skype.

In terms of outright compatibility with ISO standards intended to increase cross platform compatibility - MS Office is the least compatible office suite marketed as the most compatible office suite. I find Libre Office superior to MS Office and I'm sure many others would also if they wern't literally forced onto MS/Adobe products from the second they attended primary school.

Stating you're resistant to change and don't want to learn something new is essentially just a cop out. As you rightfully stated - Laziness. But they'll work out how to navigate their new smart TV just fine...

Apparently there seems to this disconnect that people want to go backwards instead of forwards. If you had a few buttons clicks for an install and 99 percent of the time it magically works, what’s the compelling argument to change?

It’s not that hard? It’s like this other OS? But is not the same standard as the had. Again if you well it’s not hard, I have to chuckle a bit. Because I have seen windows users and for some checking if it’s plugged in is a monumental task.

If gaming is no different under Linux then why no mass exodus of Windows already? Why are there so many that dual boot?

Because simply they are not the same.

When they are you’ll see a transition to Linux..

Office is the standard there’s no denying that. There’s cost in change. From learning the simple things in the program to learning the more complex automated tasks such as writing macros and the like. So home users not so sure it apples, though I still use and write vba to make tasks easier at home. Course when you do it at work it also makes that transition easier. Probably not typical but if the majority of business uses word/office as the standard well you have the associative costs of change.

I don’t believe it’s a cop out and I also believe the comparison is not right.

Let’s start with the comparison as it’s more directly related to win 10/11. Learning a new TV is like this transition. They may put source inputs under a different menu item or bury them deeper but it’s not fundamentally changing everything.

It’s laziness in a way but not really. Because things aren’t on a comparable level or being made easier. If I have to push one button for an install verses knowing what repository to use or have to try this and that it’s not easier, certainly not better, and it does the one thing we all try to maximize. Waste time. If I have to spend even 5 minutes doing extra on a computer that’s five minutes less I could be watching TV or arguing here :D

While on one hand that can be seen as lazy on the other it’s seen as not as good or still lacking.

Microsoft has done a great job of making it easy for the majority. Click it and forget it. We all know the costs as we are the product. But the other venders don’t have a chance until they offer something comparable.

I’ll concede Linux is getting better but it isn’t there yet. Windows 11 isn’t going to be a big deal. Just like every new thing we have the haters, the Linux crowd telling us this is the year and those telling us this is it their done.

The biggest changer. I’m typing this while laying in bed just after I read my digital newspaper. At some point a PC isn’t going to be deal either. If it weren’t for those pesky games :D
 

bigdogchris

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18,405
To do a fresh install, or upgrade from Windows 10, yes. Although if upgrading from Windows 7 I found that sometimes it skips the check on it's own. Note that in my case it wasn't complaining about TPM (probably because they temporary lifted that requirement during testing) but it was still complaining about other requirements such as lack of secureboot, etc. The DLL file that is swapped is only used during the initial phase of the install process and doesn't result in any changes to what is actually installed.
Makes me wonder long term- When a feature release for 11 comes out, will it fail to install on that older hardware? Will be interesting to know, considering it does sometimes work on 7.
 

Aurelius

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Mar 22, 2003
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I don't need market analysis firms to tell me why people do and don't use a product. If Chromebooks and other HP products have displaced Apple then that's the direction the market is going. More than likely there's a significant number of people who do need to run Windows applications and the M1 makes this problematic. Especially with the youth where gaming while going to college is an attractive option.
They know more than you do about market trends.

There's a significant number of people who need Windows, but that doesn't mean they're hurting Mac sales. How many of those people own Macs or had ever considered them? Most people who absolutely need Windows... buy Windows PCs. This limits Apple's potential audience with ARM-based Macs in the picture, but it doesn't mean that Mac growth is stunted, either. The missed sales from "I absolutely need Windows, but for some reason I bought a Mac" camp may be more than offset by the people who decide a more powerful ARM Mac is also a better value.


How many laptop companies you see going ARM? Apple is isolating themselves, and not just by ARM but with Metal API as well. So instead of looking for growth to me it seems Apple is trying to lock customers into their ecosystem.
Quite a few Chromebooks are ARM-based. Samsung, ASUS, Lenovo and others all make them. While they're typically low end, that's also where Chromebooks are most appealing. You don't see many ARM-based Windows laptops, but that's because.... well, Windows on ARM sucks, both due to the sluggish hardware and inferior software experience.

There is a degree of lock-in involved with Apple's move, but the more logical explanation is that Apple saw Intel's struggles as holding it back. Remember, Apple was struggling to deliver meaningful updates to the Mac line as Intel couldn't move past 14nm, and wasn't doing much better with 10nm; this was Apple's chance to clear that bottleneck and potentially claim a performance advantage (which, so far, it has).

Apple's golden rule is to avoid relying too heavily on another company for its success. That's why Safari and many first-party creative apps exist, why its mobile devices have been using in-house chips for years, why it's developing its own modems... you get the idea. Intel's struggles just gave Apple a strong incentive to cut that dependence on outside PC chips, too. It's definitely more of a gamble than the PPC-to-Intel switch was, but the decision appears to be paying off.
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
11,806
So windows wins because it's installed on the device when you buy it? Odd logic is odd. Personally, I'd be impressed with 5% Linux adoption considering an OS that receives no capitalistic marketing whatsoever, made by the people for the people - Hell, I find the current adoption rates impressive.

McDonald's is a 'restaurant', not a real good one, bad for one's health, but still very popular - Highlighting that 'Popularity' is not always a measure of 'great'. Once again, as ARM devices increase in popularity with the hobbiest community and most run some form of Linux, times are changing. Eventually Windows will fully adopt the fat fingered touch UI and it's days as a desktop OS will be all but gone, then you can enjoy paying a subscription for everything about the OS that matters.
It wins, because that's what people want. Do you not remember when the big PC builders offered Linux? It was a disaster. Hobbyists are not a major factor in the world of computing. It's business followed by consumers (or maybe Education and then Consumers).

And as someone who's worked on Unix and Linux at work, it's a fine OS, for the backend. It's not great for the desktop. I have no idea what touch stuff Window has, because I don't see it. But TBH, if my next monitor had a touch screen, I wouldn't object to some touch stuff built into it. As long as my mouse and keyboard also work, I'm good and so are the vast majority of PC users.
 

nilepez

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Messages
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I recall the PIN being an option at one point, but these days Window 10 requires it.
Not on my PC. I have a PW...no pin. Same with my mother's PC....but father has it. I think we're all on the same version of 10. I know they're on the same version.
 

nilepez

[H]F Junkie
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Messages
11,806
Haven't kept up with this thread but I hope the reality has set in with the Microsoft defenders that MS will indeed be barring installation of Windows 11 on 2017 and older PC's.

They even doubled down on it in a blog post:
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-i...te-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/

Another article about it here:
https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-defending-system-requirements/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+xda-developers/ShsH+(xda-developers)

It sounds like MS could backtrack and include AMD Zen and Intel 7xxx CPU's but for now, it has drawn a line in the sand.

The XDA article makes a good point about MS's new model around monetizing Windows - they are more dependent on OEM's selling new laptops than ever given their approach with Win10 licensing. As they work on monetizing your usage of the OS, it sounds like they want that influx of cash from new PC sales.
As someone with Skylake, I have no problem with this. 10 will be around for 4 more years. I seriously doubt I'll still be running this rig in 2025 (well at least not the CPU/MB and probably not the GPU either)
 

lopoetve

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Messages
31,798
It wins, because that's what people want. Do you not remember when the big PC builders offered Linux? It was a disaster. Hobbyists are not a major factor in the world of computing. It's business followed by consumers (or maybe Education and then Consumers).

And as someone who's worked on Unix and Linux at work, it's a fine OS, for the backend. It's not great for the desktop. I have no idea what touch stuff Window has, because I don't see it. But TBH, if my next monitor had a touch screen, I wouldn't object to some touch stuff built into it. As long as my mouse and keyboard also work, I'm good and so are the vast majority of PC users.
Business, Government, Edu, consumer. In that order. If you break out enterprise and commercial, probably Enterprise, Government, Commercial, Edu, consumer. Lots of linux desktops in all of those too, but they're all specialty tools - computers are tools, and the majority of them run windows because it does what people need it to, and they know it. And the customer knows how to support it.

I use linux daily for home and work - as a desktop. Hell, I'm on a linux system right now (20.04 + 10980XE + 3080RTX) - works great. For almost everything. But I'm a linux guru for many things, and there are things I can't do on here I can on windows - and more than a few of them involve bloody office apps and onedrive.
 

Aurelius

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Messages
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It wins, because that's what people want. Do you not remember when the big PC builders offered Linux? It was a disaster. Hobbyists are not a major factor in the world of computing. It's business followed by consumers (or maybe Education and then Consumers).

And as someone who's worked on Unix and Linux at work, it's a fine OS, for the backend. It's not great for the desktop. I have no idea what touch stuff Window has, because I don't see it. But TBH, if my next monitor had a touch screen, I wouldn't object to some touch stuff built into it. As long as my mouse and keyboard also work, I'm good and so are the vast majority of PC users.
To be clear, people usually want Windows because it's what they're used to, what they see in the price class they shop, what enables the hardware features they want, or runs the software they prefer (games or the occasional work app). I'm sure hardcore Windows fans are out there, but you're uncommon if you're enthusiastic about Windows purely for its own sake.

Arguably, Microsoft's biggest problem for roughly a decade was Steve Ballmer's misguided belief that most people deeply loved Windows, that the mere whiff of Windows in a given category would make you smash your Apple- or Google-powered device against the wall and run to the nearest Best Buy. And Microsoft eventually learned that many people 'want' Windows in the same way they want a Toyota Corolla; it's not because it's an exciting product, it's because it's a solid, practical option that's cheap. Give people viable alternatives (or better income) and they drift away, whether it's iPhones, Macs, Android phones or Chromebooks.
 
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bigdogchris

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As someone with Skylake, I have no problem with this. 10 will be around for 4 more years. I seriously doubt I'll still be running this rig in 2025 (well at least not the CPU/MB and probably not the GPU either)
I actually don't mind that 11 is pushing hardware requirements up. It's rare Microsoft really pushes the boundaries, so it's refreshing for once. However, I do think not 'officially' support Skylake, and Zen 1 is a bit too aggressive.
 
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I actually don't mind that 11 is pushing hardware requirements up. It's rare Microsoft really pushes the boundaries, so it's refreshing for once. However, I do think not 'officially' support Skylake, and Zen 1 is a bit too aggressive.
It's a surprising choice from a company that let people install Windows 95 on a 386DX with 4MB RAM. Maybe Intel flipped them a shiny nickel for the favor.
 

Marees

Gawd
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It's a surprising choice from a company that let people install Windows 95 on a 386DX with 4MB RAM. Maybe Intel flipped them a shiny nickel for the favor.

My guess is that 11 is same as 10 except that you can execute Android apps in 11 (securely & without a performance hit)

Microsoft is OK, if people stay on 10 & never migrate to 11 as they are the same OS (for all practical purposes)
 

Endgame

Gawd
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Messages
788
I actually don't mind that 11 is pushing hardware requirements up. It's rare Microsoft really pushes the boundaries, so it's refreshing for once. However, I do think not 'officially' support Skylake, and Zen 1 is a bit too aggressive.
Aggressive would be requiring AMD 3k or Intel 10 series. Zen 1 was released over 4 years ago, and will be almost 5 years old by the time 11 is actually released. 5 years is old by basically every pc measure I can think of.
 
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