Windows 11 May Not Run on Early Ryzen, Threadripper, Skylake-X, or Any Pre-2016 Intel PC

GotNoRice

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I don't know, man. There were a lot of reports back in 2016, maybe you missed them, but it did happen.

In 2016 I was busy actually working with the hardware and software that you are discussing in theory. No one was forced to upgrade to Windows 10.
 

cybereality

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Here's a snapshot of my sisters laptop that I've fixed for her. Other than the obvious background that I've chosen, the differences between Windows 10 and this skinned Linux Mint are hard to distinguish. Now that I think about it the look is more like Windows 7. Oh well.

View attachment 371652
Come on. You know your sister deserves Hannah Montana Linux.
 

SmokeRngs

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In 2016 I was busy actually working with the hardware and software that you are discussing in theory. No one was forced to upgrade to Windows 10.
It's pretty much impossible for anyone to have been doing what you claim and not know about the forced Win10 updates back then. It was quite the big deal considering how MS went about it. Especially since one of the favorite tricks MS used was forcing Win10 even after someone clicked on the handy "x" button in the corner of the notice which in every single instance prior would dismiss and cancel such a thing. Well, almost every single instance since some malware was written otherwise I'm sure. And don't bother saying it was some sort of fairy tale since I saw it happen with my own eyes with my mother's laptop and there were plenty of other reports of the exact same thing happening. Oh, and that MS came out later and said it happened exactly that way and it was a "mistake".
 

GotNoRice

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It's pretty much impossible for anyone to have been doing what you claim and not know about the forced Win10 updates back then. It was quite the big deal considering how MS went about it. Especially since one of the favorite tricks MS used was forcing Win10 even after someone clicked on the handy "x" button in the corner of the notice which in every single instance prior would dismiss and cancel such a thing.

I'm well aware of the prompts that you are talking about. Anyone who actually read what was going on during each step would have easily been able to opt-out. Someone who cruised through without reading, making assumptions along the way, might not have had things go the way they expected. Microsoft certainly could have made things more clear, but it still in no way means that anything was forced on anyone. Anyone who clicks on stuff without understanding what they are clicking on is going to have a lot of difficulties with computers in general, far beyond the scope of Windows, as just about everything from ads to malware is designed to trick people into clicking on it.
 

SmokeRngs

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I'm well aware of the prompts that you are talking about. Anyone who actually read what was going on during each step would have easily been able to opt-out. Someone who cruised through without reading, making assumptions along the way, might not have had things go the way they expected. Microsoft certainly could have made things more clear, but it still in no way means that anything was forced on anyone. Anyone who clicks on stuff without understanding what they are clicking on is going to have a lot of difficulties with computers in general, far beyond the scope of Windows, as just about everything from ads to malware is designed to trick people into clicking on it.
When in the history of Windows has clicking "x" to close out of something mean the opposite?

Attempt to defend and lie all you want, but those of us who live in reality know different.
 

cybereality

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Since Windows 10. My work PC requires a PIN instead of a password for some reason. I guess a 6-position numeric code is better than the 7-position alphanumeric one I was using.
I recall the PIN being an option at one point, but these days Window 10 requires it.
 

1_rick

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I recall the PIN being an option at one point, but these days Window 10 requires it.
Not always--I'm not using one on my personal PCs, which have 20H2: one Home and one Pro. But I'm also using local accounts.
 

Red Falcon

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I'm well aware of the prompts that you are talking about. Anyone who actually read what was going on during each step would have easily been able to opt-out. Someone who cruised through without reading, making assumptions along the way, might not have had things go the way they expected. Microsoft certainly could have made things more clear, but it still in no way means that anything was forced on anyone. Anyone who clicks on stuff without understanding what they are clicking on is going to have a lot of difficulties with computers in general, far beyond the scope of Windows, as just about everything from ads to malware is designed to trick people into clicking on it.
I remember that being a big point of contention at the time, though, and when people decided to "opt-out" Windows then forced the upgrade.
I also remember having to change registry values to get that prompt either go away completely, or flat out break the "upgrade" functionality of it, in order to prevent it from happening on a few critical systems I was maintaining at the time, circa 2016 to 2017 - it was a royal pain in the ass until Microsoft finally removed their malware forced upgrade "option".

Yes, this was a very real thing that did indeed happen in the mid to late 2010s, and just because articles were either buried, deleted, or just simply just no longer exist due to the age of them, this issue did indeed exist and was a very real problem in both personal and enterprise environments, though it was a bit easier to manage and control in a well-managed enterprise environment.
 

DukenukemX

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As for Apple... I suspect it'll have healthy sales growth, but Windows 11 may only play a small role in that increase. It'll more likely come down to improved competitiveness for Apple Silicon Macs, especially if Intel doesn't bounce back in a timely fashion.
Apple fell to #2 in world wide sales this year, though they did have growth.
Boot Camp mattered a lot when local software was more important and Mac performance wasn't really going to stand out. It still has some use, but virtualization and the cloud have reduced much of that need.
If you need to run Windows applications then you need something like Boot Camp and Parallels. I suspect that's why Apple fell to #2 this year. Lots of people here talk about the cloud but I never see anyone use it beyond Google Docs.
(I'd add that Windows on ARM runs very well in Parallels on the Mac, but Microsoft doesn't sell a standalone copy of that yet). And importantly, there's a better reason to stick to macOS thanks to the performance and battery life gains.
It runs but well enough to do what exactly? MacOS has the same problem as Linux in that not everyone ports their software for it so you have to find methods to run Windows apps. There's no avoiding that.
Translation: "I don't know, and I have no proof, but other people know, and other people have proof, i swear!"
He gave you proof and it's widely known. You're just a Microsoft employee who lives in denial.

That article says nothing about how the supposed "forced" update actually occurred. The article is about a complaint (unproven accusations) brought during a lawsuit. Microsoft's lawyers probably cost more than $10k per hour so it's not surprising that they settled. If you are under the impression that a settlement constitutes proof of anything other than a financial decision, then you are pretty sheltered.

Your article also said that the free upgrade ended... when in reality it still works to this day. Doesn't seem like there is a lot of fact checking going on in that article... more like clickbait.

Microsoft made the free Windows 10 upgrade easy, and there were probably a few people who did it without really knowing what they were doing, but that's a far cry from being "forced".

If Microsoft had not made upgrades from Windows 7 easy and free then you'd be right on the other side complaining that they abandoned their users as you continue pushing your linux fantasies.
We had threads about this years ago and now you pretend this never happened?
https://hardforum.com/threads/how-to-refuse-microsofts-windows-10-update.1893957/
 

DukenukemX

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Yeah it's super weird someone would act like that never happened. I know of people who booted their W7 systems to find it had auto updated on its own.
Because Microsoft wanted everyone on Windows 10, knowing how much resistance people gave with Vista and Windows 8. Knowing how little people like having their UI changed which requires them to relearn how to use the OS, so how would Windows 11 take adoption? Even for free people won't upgrade. I can totally see people turning on their machines to find that Windows 11 was installed without their permission. I can also see Microsoft forgoing the requirements of Secure Boot and TPM because Windows 11 adoption is going to be slow.
 

JSumrall

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When has Windows asked for a PIN? It just asks me for a password.

If I install a custom launcher you won't notice.

I have done it successfully to many friends and family because I don't like dealing with technical support. The only exception is when someone uses it to play games, like Roblox for example is a problem for me since I can't get Roblox to work on Linux for the life of me. Windows breaks all the time and family members tend to download stuff that breaks the OS all the time. Most malware like to break Windows update to prevent an update from removing it. So I install Linux and disguise it as Windows to prevent these problems. They don't know because as far as they know it's Windows.

For a guy living in reality you seem awfully upset over discussing about OS's. I've done it multiple times with great success. Here's a snapshot of my sisters laptop that I've fixed for her. Other than the obvious background that I've chosen, the differences between Windows 10 and this skinned Linux Mint are hard to distinguish. Now that I think about it the look is more like Windows 7. Oh well.

View attachment 371652
I said I am living in my own reality. I am not upset. I just think you're delusional to think your opinion and reality is the only one that matters. "I did it, so it must work for everyone, right, RIGHT?!"

I'm glad you were able to convert friends and/or family to Linux without them knowing. And if it works for you, fine.

But I know the questions and I hear the comments I get about Windows just when an application gets updated and the look and feel changes. So no, I'm not going to lie to my friends and family and secretly replace their Windows with Linux. I might ask them if they'd like to try it, but out of the 100 times I've asked, 100 times they've said no.

And I have no clue why you'd install Chrome on a Linux machine when you're so dead set against Microsoft and the crap they do. You're trading one spying corporate overlord for another, bigger, worse spying corporate overlord in Google.
 

cybereality

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Here is a relevant video regarding TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot on Windows 11.



I agree with what the guy was saying. Not sure if MS is going to backpedal but I could understand if they do.
 

GiGaBiTe

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In 2016 I was busy actually working with the hardware and software that you are discussing in theory. No one was forced to upgrade to Windows 10.

Whatever hardware and software you were working on must have been out in willy wonka's chocolate factory or something, because you sure weren't working with anything Windows related. 2016 was a dumpster fire for Windows field support because of the forced upgrade bullshit Microsoft was pulling.

Someone sued Microsoft for $10k for disrupting their business with a forced update they knew nothing about that trashed their computer, and won. This shit was happening all over the world, it was not an isolated incident. That entire year my phone was constantly blowing up with servers going down because of the forced update failing. I also had to deal with it succeeding and very expensive licensed software cratering because it was tied to the system configuration, which had been changed. But it wasn't just servers, I have one civil engineer that had her computer trashed by it, and we had to spend hours re-licensing software and re-configuration software that wasn't working right on 10.

https://www.neowin.net/news/woman-sues-microsoft-over-her-forced-windows-10-upgrade-and-wins/

Microsoft was doing everything in their power to force Windows 10 onto every box they could using the most disgusting methods possible. They issued literally dozens of KB updates disguised as benign patches with absolutely no information on what they did within the WU dialog, and as little information as possible on their website. When the community finally figured out what Microsoft was doing, Microsoft started to secretly re-release the updates to get around users blocking said updates, so they'd be downloaded again. Two of the most notorious were KB2952664 and KB3035583, which were re-issued dozens of times each. Microsoft was also issuing smaller stealth updates to re-enable WU automatic installation of updates so the two mentioned offending updates could be downloaded and installed.

Microsoft pushed so much shit related to the forced Windows 10 upgrade that after their year of terror campaign they had to release a removal tool to clean up trashed systems, KB3184143. But not even the sleazy slimeballs themselves could clean up what they did, and it often took a complete reinstall of the OS to make it work properly again.
 

Red Falcon

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Whatever hardware and software you were working on must have been out in willy wonka's chocolate factory or something, because you sure weren't working with anything Windows related. 2016 was a dumpster fire for Windows field support because of the forced upgrade bullshit Microsoft was pulling.

Someone sued Microsoft for $10k for disrupting their business with a forced update they knew nothing about that trashed their computer, and won. This shit was happening all over the world, it was not an isolated incident. That entire year my phone was constantly blowing up with servers going down because of the forced update failing. I also had to deal with it succeeding and very expensive licensed software cratering because it was tied to the system configuration, which had been changed. But it wasn't just servers, I have one civil engineer that had her computer trashed by it, and we had to spend hours re-licensing software and re-configuration software that wasn't working right on 10.

https://www.neowin.net/news/woman-sues-microsoft-over-her-forced-windows-10-upgrade-and-wins/

Microsoft was doing everything in their power to force Windows 10 onto every box they could using the most disgusting methods possible. They issued literally dozens of KB updates disguised as benign patches with absolutely no information on what they did within the WU dialog, and as little information as possible on their website. When the community finally figured out what Microsoft was doing, Microsoft started to secretly re-release the updates to get around users blocking said updates, so they'd be downloaded again. Two of the most notorious were KB2952664 and KB3035583, which were re-issued dozens of times each. Microsoft was also issuing smaller stealth updates to re-enable WU automatic installation of updates so the two mentioned offending updates could be downloaded and installed.

Microsoft pushed so much shit related to the forced Windows 10 upgrade that after their year of terror campaign they had to release a removal tool to clean up trashed systems, KB3184143. But not even the sleazy slimeballs themselves could clean up what they did, and it often took a complete reinstall of the OS to make it work properly again.
This is almost verbatim what I dealt with in both enterprise and personal use-case scenarios during that time period, and I'm actually surprised there weren't more lawsuits filed against Microsoft for their straight up malicious actions and intents.
GotNoRice's revisionist history is far more toxic in this thread than any Linux enthusiast pointing out alternative options could possibly be, and that is some serious Corporatist and Microsoft shilling, neither of which is appreciated.
 

GotNoRice

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SmokeRngs

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I see dozens of posts confirming that nothing was installed without someone accepting the EULA. I'm not claiming that Microsoft was a saint in all of this, but again, anyone who actually read what they were clicking on would not have had an unexpected result.
Hitting the "x" in the upper right hand portion of a program or dialogue box is supposed to close it. It has been this way for decades. Pressing that is supposed to close out of a program or dialogue box without saving changes or even accepting or declining what a dialogue box proposes to do. When MS popped up the dialogue box (which didn't have a way to decline it if memory serves) to install Win10, hitting the "x" should have stopped any installation of Win10. Instead, hitting the "x" to close the dialogue box "gave permission" for MS to force Win10 onto the computer. Guess who wrote up the code for that dialogue box? MS.

Not only was the dialogue box bullshit from the beginning since you couldn't decline it, MS made sure to force Win10 even when the dialogue box was closed out without giving permission.

Give it up. You either don't have a clue what you're talking about or are simply lying about it. We know what MS did because we saw it and had to deal with all the fallout from it. It has all been documented.
 

Red Falcon

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I see dozens of posts confirming that nothing was installed without someone accepting the EULA.
That's the point, the EULA wasn't 'accepted' manually by anyone, and Windows 10 simply installed as a standard update, which understandably had enterprises, professionals, and even casual users in an uproar about it.
I'm starting to question how much work you actually were doing back then if you somehow magically never ran across even a single system doing this, especially throughout 2016 and 2017, especially when this was widespread globally and was a commonly known issue.

I'm not claiming that Microsoft was a saint in all of this, but again, anyone who actually read what they were clicking on would not have had an unexpected result.
Your virtue signalling isn't masking the shilling.
This is the whole point of this Windows 11 thread - we've already been through this back in the mid-2010s with Windows 10 forced upgrades, went through it again when Windows 7 went EOL in January 2020, and we are getting tired of Microsoft's straight up malicious practices with their operating system.
 

ManofGod

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That's the point, the EULA wasn't 'accepted' manually by anyone, and Windows 10 simply installed as a standard update, which understandably had enterprises, professionals, and even casual users in an uproar about it.
I'm starting to question how much work you actually were doing back then if you somehow magically never ran across even a single system doing this, especially throughout 2016 and 2017, especially when this was widespread globally and was a commonly known issue.


Your virtue signalling isn't masking the shilling.
This is the whole point of this Windows 11 thread - we've already been through this back in the mid-2010s with Windows 10 forced upgrades, went through it again when Windows 7 went EOL in January 2020, and we are getting tired of Microsoft's straight up malicious practices with their operating system.

Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean he is shilling nor virtue signaling, sometimes, someone can simply be wrong.
 

DukenukemX

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I just think you're delusional to think your opinion and reality is the only one that matters.
It usually does.
"I did it, so it must work for everyone, right, RIGHT?!"
I'm not saying that Linux is for everyone because even for me I'm not sure if Linux is ready for my main PC, but that's because I play games and want to use apps like Photoshop. The only real issue with Linux is apps and that's not an easy problem to fix. Any other detail about Linux is something that can be easily corrected with a little effort.
But I know the questions and I hear the comments I get about Windows just when an application gets updated and the look and feel changes. So no, I'm not going to lie to my friends and family and secretly replace their Windows with Linux. I might ask them if they'd like to try it, but out of the 100 times I've asked, 100 times they've said no.
This only works with people who mainly use their computer to browse the web. Anything beyond that and it gets a little tricky.
And I have no clue why you'd install Chrome on a Linux machine when you're so dead set against Microsoft and the crap they do. You're trading one spying corporate overlord for another, bigger, worse spying corporate overlord in Google.
Chrome web browser or ChromeOS? I'm actually in the middle of flashing an HP ChomeOS to have a UEFI BIOS so I could load Linux. This device is so old that Google stopped supporting it and recommends that I recycle it. I'm gonna recycle it by putting Linux on it. As for the web browser I don't use Chrome but I can't help others if they do, so I install Chrome. If I want I can install Chromium and they wouldn't know the difference either.
 

Vermillion

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Whatever hardware and software you were working on must have been out in willy wonka's chocolate factory or something, because you sure weren't working with anything Windows related. 2016 was a dumpster fire for Windows field support because of the forced upgrade bullshit Microsoft was pulling.

Someone sued Microsoft for $10k for disrupting their business with a forced update they knew nothing about that trashed their computer, and won. This shit was happening all over the world, it was not an isolated incident. That entire year my phone was constantly blowing up with servers going down because of the forced update failing. I also had to deal with it succeeding and very expensive licensed software cratering because it was tied to the system configuration, which had been changed. But it wasn't just servers, I have one civil engineer that had her computer trashed by it, and we had to spend hours re-licensing software and re-configuration software that wasn't working right on 10.

https://www.neowin.net/news/woman-sues-microsoft-over-her-forced-windows-10-upgrade-and-wins/

Microsoft was doing everything in their power to force Windows 10 onto every box they could using the most disgusting methods possible. They issued literally dozens of KB updates disguised as benign patches with absolutely no information on what they did within the WU dialog, and as little information as possible on their website. When the community finally figured out what Microsoft was doing, Microsoft started to secretly re-release the updates to get around users blocking said updates, so they'd be downloaded again. Two of the most notorious were KB2952664 and KB3035583, which were re-issued dozens of times each. Microsoft was also issuing smaller stealth updates to re-enable WU automatic installation of updates so the two mentioned offending updates could be downloaded and installed.

Microsoft pushed so much shit related to the forced Windows 10 upgrade that after their year of terror campaign they had to release a removal tool to clean up trashed systems, KB3184143. But not even the sleazy slimeballs themselves could clean up what they did, and it often took a complete reinstall of the OS to make it work properly again.

The MS apologists are honestly frightening. Win10 was absolutely forced down users throats without their permission. It was talked about across every major tech podcast. There were lawsuits. There's a reason why things like Never10 exist: https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

Here's part of what Never10 did (bold emphasis added by me):

  • If Microsoft's GWX (Get Windows 10) had already secretly and silently downloaded the Windows 10 files into a hidden directory (this can be squatting on more than 6.5 gigabytes of your hard drive space), Never10 will show the exact count and amount of files and allow its user to remove them with one click.

Win10 was a shitshow. Period. Win11 right now has the potential to make Win10 look like a fairy tale where the prince gets the girl by waking her with a kiss after slaying the dragon.

I have a Dell Precision 5510 (was maxed out when it was brand new) and four Dell E7270s around the house. None of them meet the so called "requirements" simply because of the CPU. Never have I been more happy to be a Windows free household. Linux just simply fucking runs the way I want it to. My wife and kids have zero issue using it. They used Linux all through e-learning when the pandemic started. Zero issues. Anybody can use Linux.
 

JSumrall

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It usually does.

I'm not saying that Linux is for everyone because even for me I'm not sure if Linux is ready for my main PC, but that's because I play games and want to use apps like Photoshop. The only real issue with Linux is apps and that's not an easy problem to fix. Any other detail about Linux is something that can be easily corrected with a little effort.

This only works with people who mainly use their computer to browse the web. Anything beyond that and it gets a little tricky.

Chrome web browser or ChromeOS? I'm actually in the middle of flashing an HP ChomeOS to have a UEFI BIOS so I could load Linux. This device is so old that Google stopped supporting it and recommends that I recycle it. I'm gonna recycle it by putting Linux on it. As for the web browser I don't use Chrome but I can't help others if they do, so I install Chrome. If I want I can install Chromium and they wouldn't know the difference either.
And there's the rub. Many do not just use it for web browsing. Some do, some don't. But the moment they want to install something and it won't, chances are they're not going to be satisfied until it is installed.

Honestly can't tell you how often people I know go to the local store, purchase turbo tax, and take it home and install it even when you could just use their website, get the same experience, never leave home, and never install an application. Simply because that's how they've always done it.

Does it matter which? Chome web browser and ChromeOS are both Google. They can claim all they want there's a version that doesn't have their tracking crap in it, but I don't trust them one bit.
 

Jumpem

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I think the OS discussion should be framed as possibly switching to macOS from Windows. Most people will not want to switch to something as niche as Linux for home use.
 

JSumrall

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The MS apologists are honestly frightening. Win10 was absolutely forced down users throats without their permission. It was talked about across every major tech podcast. There were lawsuits. There's a reason why things like Never10 exist: https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

Here's part of what Never10 did (bold emphasis added by me):



Win10 was a shitshow. Period. Win11 right now has the potential to make Win10 look like a fairy tale where the prince gets the girl by waking her with a kiss after slaying the dragon.

I have a Dell Precision 5510 (was maxed out when it was brand new) and four Dell E7270s around the house. None of them meet the so called "requirements" simply because of the CPU. Never have I been more happy to be a Windows free household. Linux just simply fucking runs the way I want it to. My wife and kids have zero issue using it. They used Linux all through e-learning when the pandemic started. Zero issues. Anybody can use Linux.
I don't disagree. Anyone can. Just comes down to whether they want to most of the time.
 

Jumpem

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Hardware wise, Windows had has the same problem as Android. Microsoft does not control both the hardware and OS. This makes updating various older hardware configurations difficult.
 

Aurelius

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If you need to run Windows applications then you need something like Boot Camp and Parallels. I suspect that's why Apple fell to #2 this year. Lots of people here talk about the cloud but I never see anyone use it beyond Google Docs.
It's still gaining market share, though, and we can't definitively blame a dip on "but I can't run Windows." We don't actually know how many people are running Boot Camp, let alone how many of them need it so badly that they'd switch to a Windows PC if they couldn't use it any more. It's reasonable to presume most Mac users don't run Boot Camp (I haven't for years, although I can't speak for everyone), and that only some of those that do have some Windows app they absolutely can't live without. That's a subset of a subset... not something that would seriously move the needle.


It runs but well enough to do what exactly? MacOS has the same problem as Linux in that not everyone ports their software for it so you have to find methods to run Windows apps. There's no avoiding that.
Here's the thing, though: there are fewer and fewer apps that people absolutely need Windows to run. It's mainly down to games or specific work apps that don't have native Mac versions and can't be accessed through remote sessions. My fiancée has exactly one work app she can't run on her M1 MacBook Air, and that's only because it's a web app that requires an outdated version of Chrome. She could probably fix that by finding an old release and disabling automatic updates.

Think about it... why is Chrome OS so relatively popular now? It's not because people are chained to Windows apps. Now, that's another concern for Apple (a $300 Chromebook is increasingly "good enough" for many people), but it shows that native third-party apps don't hold as much sway as they once did.
 

ElementDave

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Exactly, a 4 year old skylake-x is a 20 year old toaster. How dare people still use such old junk!

If a computer does the job it's supposed to do I'm not going to add it to a landfill and spend thousands of dollars on a replacement, just because MS decided they can't be bothered to support it.

[Sent via the Toaster-X app]

Dear Mr. M76,

Thank you for your recent inquiry. We are sorry to hear about your toaster.

We regret to inform you that support for your device ended 18 months ago.* Please add it to the landfill immediately.

As a valued customer, we would like to offer you $5 credit toward the purchase a new Smart Toaster-X. We are confident you will appreciate the new features of our Smart Toaster-X series. Several highlights include:
  • Real-time video streaming to your smart phone or television with the new mobile toaster app: watch in 4K UHD** resolution as your toast heats and changes color.
  • New cloud-based crumb-monitoring service! Receive notifications when your crumb tray is full. Create and export historical crumb-count graphs in multiple formats.
  • Voice enabled. Works with Alexa!
  • Improved network device discovery and integration with your existing always-connected smart home.
  • Fixed bug that caused certain gluten-free whole grain breads to catch fire
  • Additional RGB lights and support for custom lighting profiles. Transform your environment into a 1970s-style disco club with the software control center for desktops or mobile app.
  • Enhanced Social Media integration. Automatically upload pictures of your toast to your Facebook account and send announcements via Twitter.
  • Fixed security vulnerability in the extra-crispy mode that allowed a remote attacker to overflow the tray with hazardous crumbs that could only be removed by a state-licensed toaster technician certified to operate an OSHA-compliant EPA-approved crumb vacuum and containment device.
  • And much, much, more...

* Our proprietary closed-source firmware has undergone extensive changes to accommodate pointless new features, and is not backward compatible with earlier toaster models.
** Dependent on capabilities of video display device
 

cjcox

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I think the OS discussion should be framed as possibly switching to macOS from Windows. Most people will not want to switch to something as niche as Linux for home use.
It's a hardware purchase though, and quite a stack change. It's actually easier to live a Windows lifestyle using Linux than it is using MacOS. And I'm not just talking wine, but virtualization as well. Linux actually works very well for home use apart from mass gaming. Ditto for MacOS, just saying that using Linux as the primary OS and virtualizing Windows is a bit easier with Linux. And Linux comes out of the box with way more software. I've lost way too many VirtalBox envs trying to use them on MacOS. I mean it's ok, if you're ok with losing it all. Also, though hard, because Apple makes it hard, you can virtualize MacOS in Linux as well. Apple is very anti-vitualization, more so than Windows, Windows main issue is you "paying them" for the privilege, where Apple wants to make it impossible.

I come from a former MacOS shop (lost to Windows because Window's is a virus). IMHO, much more difficult for me to get what I needed done using MacOS than using Linux.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 3, 2014
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4,582
If windows 11 requires TPM keys then that key needs to be accessible through the OS. Would it be possible to use that key for internal authentication say for wifi?? As it currently stands I’m using certificates for wifi authentication but those are a PITA to manage. If they TPM keys could be used in its place and just have the rules pushed out via GP that would make my life so much easier.
 

ElementDave

Limp Gawd
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May 5, 2013
Messages
205
I see dozens of posts confirming that nothing was installed without someone accepting the EULA. I'm not claiming that Microsoft was a saint in all of this, but again, anyone who actually read what they were clicking on would not have had an unexpected result.

That's the point, the EULA wasn't 'accepted' manually by anyone, and Windows 10 simply installed as a standard update, which understandably had enterprises, professionals, and even casual users in an uproar about it.
I'm starting to question how much work you actually were doing back then if you somehow magically never ran across even a single system doing this, especially throughout 2016 and 2017, especially when this was widespread globally and was a commonly known issue.

Just a reminder: the Windows 10 "free" update didn't apply to users of the Enterprise edition.

Off topic: does anyone know whether there's a "proper" way to use nested quotes with the forum software?
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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I don't know, man. There were a lot of reports back in 2016, maybe you missed them, but it did happen.

Here is another article for you: https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ly-installs-without-permission-complain-users
It didn’t force but it didn’t provide enough warning. It was shown that it always prompted but most windows users are so used to seeing a system prompt and clicking with out fully reading it that seemed to them like they got no warning. That’s why Microsoft changed the size and colour for the windows 10 update making it unmistakably different and intrusive.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
4,582
Just a reminder: the Windows 10 "free" update didn't apply to users of the Enterprise edition.
Thank god…. That would have fucked my Monday beyond recognition…. Have my WSUS servers push out a win 10 upgrade to craploads of hardware missing the necessary bios or firmware updates….. yeah that would have reduced me to tears.
 

D-EJ915

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
1,478
It didn’t force but it didn’t provide enough warning. It was shown that it always prompted but most windows users are so used to seeing a system prompt and clicking with out fully reading it that seemed to them like they got no warning. That’s why Microsoft changed the size and colour for the windows 10 update making it unmistakably different and intrusive.
Most people don't actually read things that pop up for sure, we got a few calls at my office asking about this people were like I clicked a box and my pc rebooted and it says upgrading windows. My parents got the popups to upgrade on their computers and I told them to wait and I upgraded them later on (7 and 8.1), it never magically upgraded them without consent. For corporate clients we never got the popups because we manage the updates.

Not personally excited about 1909 going eol, the newer versions have weird rubberbanding style graphics issues on intel skylake HEDT platforms for some programs like cpu-z.
 
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Red Falcon

[H]F Junkie
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May 7, 2007
Messages
11,248
Just a reminder: the Windows 10 "free" update didn't apply to users of the Enterprise edition.

Off topic: does anyone know whether there's a "proper" way to use nested quotes with the forum software?
I'm well aware of that, though it did apply to the Pro edition, which is what we were dealing with in enterprise at the time, as was nearly everyone else in the world.
 

DukenukemX

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Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,810
And there's the rub. Many do not just use it for web browsing. Some do, some don't. But the moment they want to install something and it won't, chances are they're not going to be satisfied until it is installed.
Keep in mind when I install Linux instead of Windows onto a computer it's for a very narrow set of circumstances.
#1 The user mainly uses the web browser with some printing and document scanning.
#2 The hardware is so old that Windows 10 doesn't have proper support for that hardware anymore. Think of older Intel and AMD GPU's.
#3 You're stupid when it comes to computers. This helps a lot since stupid people can't see the subtle differences of Windows and Linux.
Does it matter which? Chome web browser and ChromeOS are both Google. They can claim all they want there's a version that doesn't have their tracking crap in it, but I don't trust them one bit.
I don't either but if you think that you're going to avoid Google as someone who thinks a computer is a box of fire then good luck. As a computer guy I could totally delete myself off Google but I do this by using an Android phone with a custom detox rom along with Linux and Chromium web browser. I don't because I don't care until Google passes a threshold that I deem unacceptable. Sign into your Google account and manage your account. So many people log into their Gmail or YouTube and leave it on, not realizing that I can now see all their activity. Their search activity, the YouTube videos they watch, the places they've been. This stuff is scary and now you're afraid of Google? I've been shitting bricks years ago but I'm not about to stop using their services and make my life harder. Someone can totally come in and create an alternative but I haven't seen it.
I think the OS discussion should be framed as possibly switching to macOS from Windows. Most people will not want to switch to something as niche as Linux for home use.
Linux is certainly not there yet, but I blame that mostly on Wine. MacOS is even further away than Linux so yea I can see people who use Mac go Windows.
It's still gaining market share, though, and we can't definitively blame a dip on "but I can't run Windows."
I don't think many people understand why Apple went x86 to begin with. It wasn't just because PowerPC was falling behind but because Apple knew the WinTel market was so strong that a lot of Mac users complained about not being able to run Windows applications. Going x86 solved a lot of those problems, but now going ARM has recreated them. Looking at this from an end users point of view if I can't run the latest game or Windows software effectively on my M1 Mac then I'm forced to go buy an x86 PC. Hence why they're #2 even though they had growth.
We don't actually know how many people are running Boot Camp, let alone how many of them need it so badly that they'd switch to a Windows PC if they couldn't use it any more. It's reasonable to presume most Mac users don't run Boot Camp (I haven't for years, although I can't speak for everyone), and that only some of those that do have some Windows app they absolutely can't live without. That's a subset of a subset... not something that would seriously move the needle.
That's because a lot of Mac users install Parallels instead. It's far easier than dealing with BootCamp and in most cases does the job. M1 has good x86 performance but not as good as a Genuine x86 CPU, and forget the GPU performance as many games don't run. As a Linux user I'm jealous of Parallels.
Here's the thing, though: there are fewer and fewer apps that people absolutely need Windows to run. It's mainly down to games or specific work apps that don't have native Mac versions and can't be accessed through remote sessions. My fiancée has exactly one work app she can't run on her M1 MacBook Air, and that's only because it's a web app that requires an outdated version of Chrome. She could probably fix that by finding an old release and disabling automatic updates.
To be honest most people just browser the web and watch videos which most ChromeBooks do just fine. Clearly you don't buy a Mac for that particular reason.
Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean he is shilling nor virtue signaling, sometimes, someone can simply be wrong.
This is not being wrong this is pushing propaganda about a situation that was well document and proven to have happened. We know what Microsoft did in 2016.
 

Red Falcon

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Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean he is shilling nor virtue signaling, sometimes, someone can simply be wrong.
When literally everyone in the thread is calling out GotNoRice on their repeated revisionist history of only a few years ago, I would say it is time to admit fault and throw in the towel like a mature adult.
It is one thing to be wrong, and it is another to simply be in total denial even when presented with actual historical facts - this is by far the latter.

Now Microsoft is doing the same thing with Windows 11, and we are simply stating the obvious faults and Corporatist tactics that they are going to most likely screw everyone over with.
Oh, not to mention the massive amount of unneeded e-waste that will occur because of their new OS "requirements".


I actually respected heatlesssun for their true passion on Microsoft products' versatility, and the many positives they brought to an enterprise and customers - not to mention, heatlesssun would truly admit when Microsoft pushed the boundaries of what was necessary and when they stepped over the line for invasion of privacy and pushed Corporatist tactics on their loyal customers.
I was proud to have them as a friend on this forum for many reasons, especially for helping others with Microsoft products and related issues.

GotNoRice, however, hasn't done any of that, and at this point is just straight up shilling by pushing revisionist history repeatedly, pretending like these severe forced-upgrade issues with Windows 7/10 never existed, and has been proven wrong numerous times in this thread, especially so by the very individuals who actually lived through those said issues that GotNoRice is claiming never happened.
It is also getting tiresome being told these issues didn't exist when we literally lived through them, and only a few years ago at that, so this is all in very recent memory.


The TPM requirement, while I don't entirely agree with it, does make a bit of sense within an enterprise environment for obvious security reasons.
The CPU requirement, however, is total bullshit that will artificially and drastically increase e-waste unnecessarily, not to mention force-obsolete so many capable systems both in and out of enterprise and personal markets - this is pure Corporatism, and should be fought against at every facet.

I hope that pendragon1 is correct in that Microsoft will change their requirements in the coming months, because if not, we are in for a truly dark future with Microsoft's "Windows-as-a-service" and its ever-changing requirements.
 

ComputerBox34

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Messages
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Haven't kept up with this thread but I hope the reality has set in with the Microsoft defenders that MS will indeed be barring installation of Windows 11 on 2017 and older PC's.

They even doubled down on it in a blog post:
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-i...te-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements/

Another article about it here:
https://www.xda-developers.com/wind...gn=Feed:+xda-developers/ShsH+(xda-developers)

It sounds like MS could backtrack and include AMD Zen and Intel 7xxx CPU's but for now, it has drawn a line in the sand.

The XDA article makes a good point about MS's new model around monetizing Windows - they are more dependent on OEM's selling new laptops than ever given their approach with Win10 licensing. As they work on monetizing your usage of the OS, it sounds like they want that influx of cash from new PC sales.
 
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